Whiteley emerging as the only choice for Bok captain.
I am still not convinced about Whiteley as a top class number 8 - but he does have captaincy credentials.
I think not.
If he is not appointed to captain the side who else is available and qualified?
So in saying that will he assist in covering for Captain Whiteley?Who would be the other flank?
Another issue is that we cannot overlook is the question about quotas.
When does the 50% color stipulation come into force?
I thought is was policy slated to be enforced in 2017/18.
Mohoje is hopeless as a flank. According to the commentators yesterday he is the loosie that tops the penalty count in Super Rugby. He is nothing better than a club player. Was out of depth as a loosie in the past and will never make the grade.
I do not know what SARU is going to do with the 50% policy - the quality players are just missing and to select players without merit is going to be destructive.
I would rather prefer any of the Du Preez twins or Elstadt as a 7 - Ackerman is promising - but neither of the twins or Ackerman is really that good,
I am afraid that they would select Kolisi ahead of Kriel or Cloete as an openside loosie. In any event the loosie combination of Kolisi, Mohoje and Whiteley would b e a joke in bad taste.
With all the talented black loose forwards we have available, get used to the idea that one of the loose forwards will be black.
Oupa, Notshe, Kolisi, Ntsila . . . don't think any of them will let us down.
I remember a few years ago when we couldn't name more than 2 or 3 black players in a SA black XV, now it's just locks and halfbacks we're short.
1. Nche2. Marutlelle3. Nyakane4. ?5. ?6. Siya Kolisi7. Oupa Mohoje8. Skuna Notshe9. ?10. ?11. Courtnall Skosan12. Howard Mnisi13. Lionel Mapoe14. Makazole Mapimpi15. Lwazi Mvovo
I'm not saying that's a team of world beaters, but it's a big step forward from where we were 5 or more years ago.
What was it you said to Dave again when you met him, Moffie? You ran away from South Africa because you hated black people? Is that right?
Who gives a flying toss about your racist and supremacist opinions when it comes to BEE and quotas in this country?
LMAO!
The above team listed by you would lose against Japan, Outer Mongolia and SriLanka so where would our World ranking go? Same way as our soccer teams rating plunged. We may be in the Top 20 ranked countries - but unlikely to make the WC rating requirement.
Do you really think that all the players mentioned by you are there on merit as the best players in their positions in the country?
doesn't seem like,.... and the wikipedia says he weights 98 kg.
I regard myself as a liberal - but definitely not sold on destruction of the existing order, but rather on improvement of it by widening it on a merit basis.
At this stage elements in the ANC admit it is in trouble - so the dishonest crowd is trying to use race hatred to enhance their election prospects in the ANC Congress later this year and in the 2019 election.
In the meantime the ANC Government is losing court case after court case because of their trampling on the Constitution - the latest one being the nuclear energy programme which the crooks are hell-bent to implement, because of the massive kick-backs involved. The list of ANC Government Appeals is getting longer and longer and the Constitutional Court and the Appeals Court will soon be totally involved in only hearing Government Appeals. They are up against a Justice system determined to prevent the upholding of justice and the Constitution and has no chance of winning anything. The interesting next one will be the handling of the case involving secret voting in the Motion of No Confidence in Zupta in Parliament.
I think SARU realizes at least part of the problem by saying the Springboks will play tests in foreign countries, where race-based selections will not be allowed.
Super Rugby Chris Cloete is Kings’ new domkrag 2017-04-30 08:25 share this Chris Cloete. Related Links
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Simnikiwe Xabanisa
-Johannesburg - Forget Lionel Cronjé’s around the back dummy, or Makazole Mapimpi’s catchy post-try celebrations...the one Southern Kings player commentators were moggy about during their tour of Australia was Chris Cloete, an unfashionable openside flanker.
The Aussies, who like their rugby players Crocodile Dundee tough, were taken by Cloete’s angry warthog routine throughout the trip.
His calling card was extreme bravery and almost Mighty Mouse-like strength for a man standing at only 1.76m tall and weighing 101kg.
As it turns out, their instincts about the 26-year-old, whose job description includes poking his head into the ruck furnace, are spot on – Cloete is one of the strongest, if not fittest, players at the Kings.
Nadus Nieuwoudt, the Kings’ conditioning coach responsible for those strong finishes we’ve become accustomed to this season, says a big part of his dealings with Cloete is saving him from himself.
“When it comes to gym, the guy is actually a freak with the amount of training he does,” Nieuwoudt says.
“You won’t find a guy who wants to train harder, or does, than Chris. The biggest job for me is managing him against himself so he doesn’t do too much.”
Having
been out for eight months with torn anterior cruciate ligaments when
the Kings began their pre-season training in November, Cloete somehow
was on the same fitness level as the rest of the team when he joined
them in January – a testament to his natural fitness levels.
Nieuwoudt says the former Sharks man’s secret is that he is a great all-round athlete.
“Not only has he got explosive power, but he’s also got strength, which is what makes him different. He’s one of the best all-round athletes around – he’s strong, fast, he’s got a lot of power and his fitness levels are great.”
While he couldn’t have his fitness measured in the Kings’ conditioning phase because he wasn’t in full running yet, Nieuwoudt says Cloete had what it takes to do well in repeat sprints and yo-yo tests (which are a bit like the old bleep test).
“You get guys on the wing who can run quickly in a straight line, for example Usain Bolt is quick over 100m, but he doesn’t do 10 of them back-to-back.
Chris has got speed endurance because he can do multiple 60m sprints over the duration of the game and his quality levels don’t drop off.”
Maximum bench press
But the most impressive aspect of his physical gifts are exercises that are upper-body based, as his Popeye physique suggests.
“We have a 100kg bench press test, where the guys have to bench until they can’t any more,” says Nieuwoudt.
“Chris has done 28, which is the strongest in our squad. The next best is 27, by one of the props. So he is stronger than even the front-rowers in that regard.
“We no longer do the single maximum bench press because I’ve had one or two guys pop a pectoral muscle, but if we were to do it, Chris would probably be doing 180kg to 200kg.
"In the wide overhand pull-ups, he does about 44, which places him in our top five in the squad.”
As a result, Cloete is something of a talisman for the Kings in training:
“The guys look up to him because they know what his physical capabilities are. But he always jokes about it to challenge the others.”
Dislocated finger
Nieuwoudt warns against people reading too much into Cloete’s gym numbers and concluding that he’s not a quality player, and points out how important he is to a Kings side that still needs to play with the old-fashioned openside flanker when others are moving away from that.
“We feed off turnover ball because we’ve got pure pace in our squad. With turnovers, we can release [the ball] and put the opposition on the scramble.
"Those guys make a massive difference in terms of momentum, we call them Staffies – you’ve got to have a certain type of dog in you to play that position,” says Nieuwoudt.
Indeed, Cloete has more than proved his bravery in the position, as Nieuwoudt remembers:
“Once, he dislocated his finger and the bone came through the skin. The doctor came on, snapped the finger back and strapped it. Not long after that, Chris went on to make a try-saving tackle.
“He’s just one of those guys who doesn’t feel pain; he’s a different breed who doesn’t complain and is always asking for more.Ou Maaik, that is a very stupid question.
Read my comment again and if you come to the same conclusion that I'm trying to pick the best Sringbok team possible then . . . well, maybe just go ahead and think that but keep it to yourself this time.
Mozart ... that was an enjoyable opening post.
Unfortunately what you said is exactly my feelings on our loose trio. I too would love to have an inform Vermeulen at 8 ... a freight train like Vunipola ... a bruiser so to speak ... but we don't have anyone who resembles that mould ... so we're forced to look for one who brings another kind of magic.
Vermeulen seems to have developed an attitude toward South African rugby. Drawing him in would be a mistake as I feel he's no longer committed to the cause.
We can do better.
Whiteley is the best option at 8. Yes he is a lightweight in comparison but he makes up for it in other ways and as you said who can challenge him for the captaincy.
Now it's just a matter of getting the right mix of flanks in place.
I know your not a fan of Kriel and would prefer Louw at 6. I'm not a fan of his?
How about bringing Cloete in off the bench? We have no choice but to start looking towards players that will eventually take over.
I think we're pretty much covered at openside.
Our issue lies at blindside. We are in sixes and sevens over who'll fit in there. We have no need of an additional lock at 7 and so have the luxury of selecting an out and out flanker. I am temp ted to slot Kriel in there as he has an incredible work rate, powerful hands and can beat most backs for pace.
I honestly cannot see him left out of the starting 15.
My loose trio would be 6. Cloete, 7. Kriel, 8. Whiteley (capt).
I do not rate any of the players of colour as worthy of selection. The Kolisis and Notshes of the world don't do it for me. They're just tokens to appease the authorities.
I know you've moved on from Alberts and I think Vermeulen has also been temporary set aside ... perhaps to be relooked at a little later ... so what are your thoughts on our blindside flank ... obviously taking into account that we do not have a Juan Smith or a Andre Venter available.
We need to fill the slot with our best possible prospect.
My choice is Jaco "the incredible" Kriel.
What's yours?
This comment is made just after a picture that could summarize SA rugby. Five players shown and it is enough to destroy SA storytelling.
It shows all the willingness it requires to jump on the SA fantasy boat.
SA is that country starting with the largest (and by far) non white people base and yet fails to get any player out of it when other countries manage.
One way to advance the cause of non white players in SA is to send some of them to other countries so they could be brought to SA as credible rugby players.
That would advance the matter.
Rugby is a game of excellence played excellently.
Kolisi is a guy who will fit into the Lions patterns quite nicely since he's often found running off the shoulders the ball carrier and has the stamina to match the Lions lads.
What do you think about him when viewed from that perspective?
I like your comments on the loosie issue - but have reservations about one aspect, namely the usage of openside specialists on the blindside.
What is required from blindside loosies? To my mind the following:-
* Assistant jumpers in line-outs* High work rate insofar as tackling is concerned* Good ball carriers and handling (passing) - especially in open field situations (in traffic it is the function of the Tight 5 players)* Good ball protection and recovery in breakdown situations.
I think both Kriel and Cloete are very good opensiders and will not move any of them to the blindside. On that side I think there are three real potential players that could e considered, namely -
* Lappies Labuschagne (108 kgs)* Philip van der Walt (110 kgs)* Michael Rhodes (114 kgs)
Labuschagne and Van der Walt can be used in all three loosie positions while Rhodes is a blindsider only. All three have high work rates - with Labuschagne the best in ball protection and recovery. Labuschagne and Van der Walt have pace - Rhodes less so. Problem is that two of those are not playing in SA anymore.
My ideal selection would be as follows:-
8 Warren Whiteley7 Lappies Labuschagne6 Jaco Kriel
If only SA players are to be borne in mind I would include Van der Walt at 7.
I think one of the problems the Bulls has this year is their seriously deficient loosie combination and the others are in their backline - especially the half-backs. Labuschagne was a huge loss to them.
@ Trad
Rubbish!!!
That's all you ever spout. One ignorant post after another. Endless garbage.
I realise that you're trying to come across as an intellectual ... but sadly you sound more like an intellectual wannabe. It's best you face facts. Your sir, are an idiot.
There has been more than enough opportunities given to players of colour in this country. Apart from taking their dicks in our hands and puckering our lips I do not know what else to do to encourage these hordes of supposed talent to partake in the sport.
THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED.
Most have been brought up by parents who love soccer and until we get their parents to rethink their sport prefere nces, we'll always be trying to force the issue with them.
Leave them be. The opportunities are available to those who are interested. Let us focus on bringing the talented players out (all race groups) and not molly-coddle these poor dears for an eternity.
You wanna play rugby ... great ... get involved. Show us what you got. You don't, then fine ... pi$$ off.
Plum ... you are right ... I don't like it at all.
Kolisi to me is as average as they come. Not meaning to pi$$ on your battery but we have much better prospects to select from at 7. That is in any case only my opinion.
Kolisi has struggled in the past to make the Stormers bench. He is only in now because everyone else of substance is either injured or has been tempted by the spoils up north.
I gave up reading the Trad comments - best advice is to do the same. In a way he reminds me of that Advisor of Gigaba from the Wits University. Destroy the economy and sometime in future it may recover. It has not done that ever in Russia, China, Brazil, Venezuela, Zimbabwe etc and millions starved as a result while under the previous regimes.
It will only recovered when rational Governments take over - like happened in Russia and China and is in the process of change in Brazil, but is still to happen in Zimbabwe and Venezuela.
Mike ... Kriel is my favourite rugby player in all the world and I wish he was a natural fetcher ... but one has to face the facts sometime ... and that is that he doesn't play to ground as a fetcher should.
Yes he turns balls over from time to time but so do many other. That's not his strength. He is a natural ball carrier ... he creates something from nothing by finding a little space and using his pace and upper body strength to exploit it. He is hard to bring down once in the gap and to have a support player as Plum suggested playing off his shoulder (Whiteley, Vorster, Janse van Rensburg, De Allende, Du Preez ... etc) would tear the opposition a new one.
That is why I'd prefer him at 7 ... with a true opensider like Cloete (or even Louw if he'd stay the course) doing the dirty work.
(6. Louw, 7. Kriel, 8. Whiteley) ... ???
I have read your comments and most of the players mentioned by you are deficient - merely club players that is not competent on Super Rugby level - they are mostly there on a quota basis effectively weakening the teams they play for considerably. I take your point though.
I have read your comments and most of the players mentioned by you are deficient - merely club players that is not competent on Super Rugby level - they are mostly there on a quota basis effectively weakening the teams they play for considerably. I take your point though.
Coming across as an intellectual demands situations requiring intellectual skills.
The situation in SA rugby does not require any intellectual depth to be seen as it is.
Indeed, even an idiot can see it for what it is.
On the other side, it would require an intellectual effort to disguise it. Anyone wishing to come across an intellectual is welcome to try his luck with SA rugby. An effort that can not be found on this board by the way.
You wanna play rugby ... great ... get involved. Show us what you got. You don't, then fine ... pi$$ off.
Correction: this is up to SA to show what they have.
In this case, unable to train any non white player.
In other nations, they do it.
The guess here is they have the ones interested enough to play rugby.
How come that when they are in foreign nations, they got interested enough but in SA, they are not.
One solution: ship some of them to foreign nations. Their chances in turning into proper rugby players will be better than in SA since in SA, it is zero chance.
@Trad yeah bud. The entire board are all idiots. Had we a few more IQ points on our tests we'd understand you. Alas we don't. So please stop wasting your time.
One of the weirdest comment read on this board.
A simple conservative commendation on budget discipline is perceived as the destruction of the economy.
Basically, countries that have starvation issues (as SA have) must get involved in playing rugby in order to solve their starvation issues.
Despite building signs showing that SA can not afford playing rugby, that any day going on playing rugby adds to the destruction of the economy, it must be believed rugby is the solution.
Have starvation issues? Dont worry, play rugby.
Have infrastructure issues? Dont worry, play rugby.
Playing rugby is the way to build an economy.
All so full of black players. We really have a lot to learn from them.
BWAHAHAHA!
I do not think that Louw is an option for 2019 either and it would be very unwise to keep him around - we should not repeat Meyer's mistakes and start finding a future solution.


