Whiteley emerging as the only choice for Bok captain.

I agree...name our fetcher.

 That is difficult for you need physical strength as well as pace and ball sense.   Last year Labuschagne played at 6 for the Bulls and he has a strong fetching record.   For instance in 2013 he made in Super  Rugby more turnovers than Brussow did with less penalties given away.   The other option may be Van der Walt - who played for the Sharks on Saturday and did very well.  
I would back Labuschagne - since he is by some distance the best breakdown ball protection player in SA - but do not have a problem with Van der Walt either.

Well I don't think many will agree about Liggies, who by the way is already 28, a bit old to start a test career. Cloete I can't comment on, except to say he would be the shortest chap I can think of playing test forward. Maybe that doesn't matter.....but somehow I doubt it.

"Van der Walt I can't comment on, except to say he would be the shortest chap I can think of playing test forward."
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahaha!
And posters - on this thread and elsewhere - still take this blithering idiot seriously!
Philip van der Walt at 6'4 would be the shortest test forward ever?
Pfffffffffffffhahahahahahahaha!
How much rugby does this fool watch?

 VdW, the Sharks 8? He should be in the Bok runnings. I've seen little of him, but class shines. If we didn't need Whiteley for Bok skipper, I  would seriously consider him. Best of the 8s I've seen this year.

Well, according to some, Van der Walt not only too small, he'd be one of the smallest forwards to ever play test rugby if he was selected!
Waaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahaha!
I suppose this puts the whole "Etzebeth is faster than Ben Smith" thing into perspective . . . not to mention the Lions finishing the Super Rugby season in 10th place behind the Hapless Stompies!
LMAO!

 Draad
Van der Walt used to play for the Cheetahs before he went overseas at the end of 2014 on a two year contract.   He used to be a top class 8 for the Cheethas.
On his return to the  Sharks this year he played mostly at 8 and the past weekend at 6.  He is a player with a high work rate and I can see him or Labuschagne being the top opensiders in SA because of their ball protection and recovery capabilities.   

 Mozart
You did not do well in what you have written above.   At 1,94 meters van der Walt is 4 centimeters taller than Louw - so is Louw the smallest player ever playing forward for the Springboks?   I think you may have mixed up Cloete and  Van der Walt in this case.     

My mistake, I thought you were referring to Cloete.....I asked you for your nominations for fetcher. Van der Walt is probably better than the du Preez twins, but I certainly don't see him as an open side flank.

 That is why I prefer him at blindside and Liggies as you call him weighs 108 kgs so you are wrong there too.      

Where is Liggies these days.....playing Sevens?

So ou Maaik says: "The other option may be Van der Walt - who played for the Sharks on Saturday and did very well" . . . and Moffie now claims he thought ou Maaik was talking about Chris Cloete of the Kings? 
Ummmm . . . apart from the fact that ou Maaik still added he was from the Sharks, how on earth could anyone mistake Chris Cloete for Philip van der Walt?
Do they look alike?
Do they play the same kind of game?
Are their names similar?
The mind boggles . . . I wonder which player it was that Eben Etzebeth "gassed" that made the doddering old fool think it was Ben Smith?
LMAO!

You seem to be confused about whether van der Walt looks like Cloete I would say not given the more than 6 inch height difference.

Wehe . . . oh right, so it was me who mixed up the two players, not you?
Typical!

Well you asked the question....always pleased to help those that are confused. .. Urinal....foot.....shoot . You can't make this stuff up......LMAOFY!

 Mozart
He moved to Japan where he will make a huge name for himself.   One of the best loosies we had in  SA for years and he is younger than Alberts was when first elected as a starter for SA at 28.   And that was the only start in 2011 and his first continuous starting caps were in 2012.
Difference is that Alberts was clumsy and a low work rate player without any athletic abilities and  Labuschagne is the exact opposite.      

Japan? You always claim that's the kiss of death, why do you think Liggies will be different.

 Because he is a good player - not the duds who went that way like Fat Fransie

Liggies better than Fransie, Jacques Fourie, Fourie du Preez?

 Fourie came back from Japan - slow and ultimately so fat even Meyer baulked.  Du Preez was virtually always injured and he was fairly useless when he came back - not a shadow of the player he used to be.   Fat Fransie came back from France, fat and a poor performer without pace.  He went to Japan and came back fatter than ever.    He will go back to Japan soon and come back fatter than a sumo wrestler. 
Seems that especially Fourie and Fat Fransie  regard Japan as a feeding trough - not really a place to play rugby - which happened every fourteen days,   Not fit enough to play even two decent matches a month - one is already a hard effort, two a virtual impossibility. 
Good money though - so good luck to the players at the feeding trough.    I do not think that would interest Labuschagne though.       

Exactly my point, why would Liggies do better......over and out.

 
I enjoyed Lappies in his day and though he may be a talented rugby player he never struck me as one who'd go any further than Super Rugby.

To me that's where it ends. 

Kriel is his better in every way. I guess that's why he drew so much attention ... to the point where fans were demanding his inclusion in the Bok starting 15. Can't say I've heard much calls for Lappies to be included. Not even as a blindside flank which is his preferred position.

Cloete has put his hand up high for all to see. Bearing in mind that he's playing for the weakest franchise in South Africa, he sure has made a big difference, and people have taken notice of him ... including those abroad.

He weighs in at 101kg and stands at 1.76m in his socks.

He is powerhouse second to very few I know of ... out benching props who are 20 odd kg heavier than he is. He is a maniac when it comes to putting time in on the training field and is driven by a tremendous hunger.

I don't think we need worry about his height. He punches way above his weight and I believe he'll do us proud.  

I would give him his opportunity without a second thought. Bring him off the bench as is custom and perhaps have someone a little more experienced at 6 give him a few pointers at what to expect at test level.

As for Japan ... the low level of play does more harm than good. Jaco vd Westhuizen stated that it took him an age to get back to the higher intensity of Super Rugby. He never managed to recover his former skills and was sent out to pasture.

Lappies is there for the money. Picking up additional international experience is not what he went there for. I doubt he'll return a better player.

Mike ... I also differ from you regarding Alberts. He was phenomenal in his prime and made a massif difference to every side he played for. Not sure how could have missed that?

 


 

I really like both Whitely and Kriel, but unfortunately it is still my opinion that if the one starts, the other cannot. I think the best option is to have Kriel on the bench as an impact player for when the game has opened up. Whitely needs to start with a couple of big bruisers at 6 and 7 to compensate for him being a relative "lightweight". Right now he is the only real option as captain. 

 
Well ... it's all very nice saying you want two bruisers to accompany him ... now let's hear who these bruisers of yours are.

I'd have to go with louw as the Fetcher because he is also quite a big chap. I know he is past his best, but he is still a solid player. Ackerman on the other side. It would be a loose trio mixing experience, youth and flair. 

It's hard to pick the potential Springbok loose forward trio without knowing the transformation/quota requirements for the team as a whole.

Whoever is Springbok coach will have to weigh up the black talent available in certain positions and make certain sacrifices. It's not ideal but that is the reality.

If there is no spot in the loose forward trio that the coach targets specifically for a black player then my selection would be:

6) Jaco Kriel; 7) Jean-Luc du Preez; 8) Warren Whiteley

If I had to include a black player then I would bring in either Oupa Mohoje at #7 or Skuna Notshe at #6 or #8.

I agree that it might be a bit risky to play both Kriel and Whiteley together but I reckon we could get away with it if we had a giant like Jean-Luc du Preez at #7. If we had to replace him with Oupa Mohoje for transformation reasons, that messes up the entire dynamic and we'd probably have to swap out one of Kriel or Whiteley as well.

It's a lot more complex than people think (self-inflicted admittedly) but it is the reality that any Springbok coach has to deal with.

Looking at the test quality black players we have available in this country, I would say it's almost a certainty that loose forward is one of the positions where we will have to pick a black player.

Get used to it.

'We'd probably have to swop out one of Kriel and Whiteley as well'........hahaha yes Urinal was a strong supporter for Whiteley as captain. Off to golf having administered the customary killer blow........game, set and match!

 That was end April this year - before that you were in 2015 and 2016 dead set about having Lions in the team.
Nothing wrong with changing your mind about players - so please allow others to do the same.     

I didn't change my mind about Whiteley, despite what the deceitful, childish and lifeless old windbag thinks. If you read what I wrote (and assuming you have an IQ higher than your age) then you'll see Whiteley was my pick if quotas weren't an issue and I was speculating on who might have to fall away if we had to pick someone like Oupa Mohoje for transformation purposes.
Moffie saw what he wanted to see and had his usual premature ejaculation but he's either too poorly educated to understand what I was saying or else he started plucking at his sad and wrinkled little gherkin before thinking things through.
LMAO!

I quoted you exactly...and we all know accomodations have to be made. The accommodation you don't make is to toss out your pick for captain. But following your logic, that we have to "get used" to a Black loosie and that Whiteley would have to go if that happened.....you have totally excluded the possibility of Whiteley as captain. It's simple logic. .. And hilariously you pick Notsche ahead of Kolisi.....LMAOFY!

 Cough cough...

"CC, if the Boks go balls to the wall Lions, then the I have a suggestion that you won't like.

Kolisi is a guy who will fit into the Lions patterns quite nicely since he's often found running off the shoulders the ball carrier and has the stamina to match the Lions lads. 
What do you think about him when viewed from that perspective?"

As for your post Tokkie.....eat this: ............. Actually I would try all the flavour of the day Lions June 14, 2016, 13:50:48 Simply because what we saw out there on Saturday wasn't a team. It was a collection of players based on nothing. There is no core to the team. The only way in this short time. To build a team is to base it to some extent on one of our franchises. We have often done this with the Bools....only the Lions fit the bill right now. Secondly if we don't try these players now, when do we try them? Normally I'm for winning matches, but we don't want another 4 years with team controversies....throw them in the water, let's see who swims. Given our poor Super performance there will be more time for the team to gel before the RC if some of these changes have to be reversed. Thirdly it will rev up Ellis Park and what better venue to debut for Lions players. Let's go for broke, if we lose the series....so what? We are in transition and experimenting. So play this team: Willie Combrink Mapoe Janse van Rensburg Mvovo Jantjies Faf Redlinghuis Marx Beast Etzebeth Stephanie Kriel Louw Whiteley And if it all flops we can put our best shot for the RC in for next week, but at least the air will have been cleared. And there is just a chance this may work. ..... Posted by me June 2016.

Damn, it's game, set and match again..........LMAOFY!

 Ou Makkie yer other team lost to Japan so Rooies team wouldnt do any worse in that regard eh ?Just taking the mickey outta ou Makkie .