MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Jun 2017, 05:52#1
Whiteley's groin injury is apparently a 3 month event...so the Boks will need a new captain for the RC. It's a shame because Whiteley had a lot to do with the Boks revival....not so much as a player, more as a leader. His captaincy was part of the Lions core tactic, which worked.
...
But Whiteley is gone for the moment, and thanks to the poverty of the French team, this Bok team has already gelled. So continuing with Eben might work, and certainly is the approach that preserves Whiteley as the long term captain. The other option appears to be Vermeulen into the number 8 slot and the captaincy.
..
It's hard to see any other options that are serious.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Jun 2017, 09:07#2
Mozart
You have your timesline wrong I am afraid. Whiteley is out for three weeks not three months as mentioned by you.
I am not sure that after building up a "brotherhood" under Whiteley that Vermeulen will take over as captain. He may not even be called up to the Springbok team in view of the fact that -
* Hougaard was atrocious in his last test;* Steyn was effectively useless when he did play; and* Kitshoff is effectively not a foreign player since he is in training with the Stormers already.
Looking at the third test again it was clear that Hougaard was not contributing to the backline performance at all and his kicking game was poor. Steyn clearly is unfit - in the last seconds of the test he made a long up-field kick which he tried to follow up. After running the circa 60 meters he was totally out of breath.
It is a gamble to bring in foreign-based players since from the former era of dead backline play - and being not in line with the present scenario - they are a liability. They also does not really fit in the team. Vermeulen is to my mind the only player who may be called up for the RC - but whether initially he makes the starting line-up is another question, especially in view of the damage done by Hougaard and Steyn.
27 Jun 2017, 11:28#3
3 months ??? Yeah right ... you wish!!
If Whiteley was out then Coetzee would make Kolisi captain.
Du Preez would take the 8 jersey and Oupa would return to 7.
No place fior the old and tired Vermeulen, I'm afraid .
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Jun 2017, 12:06#4
CC
The initial report says Whiteley will be out for 3 weeks. However, the specialist report said 6 to 8 weeks - which means he will only be back at the latter part of August. He may therefore miss the first RC test against Argetina.
I do not think that they would change the captaincy for missing one test and I think if he misses the first RC test and be on the bench in either the first or second RC test the situation is that Etzebeth would be the stand-in captain.
In view of the line-out problems of the last test I think that they would rather play Du Toit at 8 and leave the loosie situation for the rest as is. Mohoje would be lucky to get selected since he is useless at best.
27 Jun 2017, 12:12#5
Yeah ... I also heard it was 6 weeks.
Mohoje is absolutely useless and should never have been selected to begin with. He does however seem to be a favourite of Coetzee and so useless or not he's guaranteed a spot in the starting 15 if fit.
I do see your point regarding the line out options being improved with Du Toit at 8 and Du Preez remaining at 7.
I would prefer that actually to Oupa comi ng back.
27 Jun 2017, 12:50#7
I'm a little surprised that you even know who Warren Whiteley is.
Got so used to you running after Redneck's every post ... and siding with Mozart and co ... against Mozart's adversaries ... generally just being a Mozart Toadie, ya know?.
So does that mean you know that this is in fact a rugby site ... where rugby matters are discussed ... ??
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Jun 2017, 14:26#9
Astonishing how Turncut and Tokkie.....nice aliteration there......get things so wrong:
....
He won't be available untill the 3rd RC game at best.....and how fit is he going to be then?
...
Schplotttttt chaps.....you still want more of this Turncut?
27 Jun 2017, 14:42#10
It's probably the first bit of rugby matter I've seen from you, DA ... so don't get your nuts in a knot just cause I'm a little surprised by it.
I eagerly await your next masterpiece.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Jun 2017, 14:56#11
Just say you are sorry Turncoat.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Jun 2017, 15:24#13
Mozart
Likely to be 6 weeks - meaning circa 29 July 2017 to 8 weeks means 12 August 2017. The first test is on 19 August 2017 - so he may miss that test - or be on the bench - some with the next test week later.
Your mistake is that you really wants Vermeulen as captain - so one has to accept that you are wrong in this case. As I said - bearing in mind the flop made with Fat Fransie and useless Fransie in the French tests - another foreign-based player will have to be exceptional to get into the squad. After his neck injury Vermelen was in the main anything but.
By then Vermeulen would have been out of rugby for circa 3 months - partly due to injury - so how fit will he be come the RC tests?
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Jun 2017, 17:17#15
DA
What about adding the 3 months of Mozart?
AJArthur John
Pro1,748 posts
AJArthur JohnPro1,748 posts
27 Jun 2017, 22:54#16
With the outstanding performances of players delivered in the French tests as logged by most forum members, it is obvious that there are only two players who stand head and shoulders above all others.
Paige or Jantjies.
Here is why:
They are guaranteed to be selected plus they have proven their rugby and motivational skills and which player would not be pleased to be led onto the field by either one.
Imagine having your photo taken with Captain Jantjies and to be able to show it to your grandchildren someday.
Priceless.
28 Jun 2017, 09:14#17
Haaaaaaaahahahahahaaa.
Dumb Ass ... I'm sorry to say ... but you don't intimidate me AT ALL ... very sorry ... as much as you'd like to believe you do ... a little wankstain like you ... common?
Haaaaaaaaaahahahahaaa!!
I must however give you a noddy badge for effort. You've tried to play with the big dogs but in reality you are as meaningless as they come. Your only contribution to this site is to run after Redneck's every post and look for some stupid thing to rant about, all cause he gave you a smack sometime back.
Poor Dumb Ass. Now before you get any ideas let me state clearly enough that I most certainly don't want to replace Redneck as your next fixation.
Now run along, lame brain.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Jun 2017, 10:39#19
DA
Who is the mentor of CC? Careful here not long ago he was like you associated with Mozart. That did not last - but you remained a Mozart bootlicker.
RORooinek
Captain18,117 posts
RORooinekCaptain18,117 posts
28 Jun 2017, 11:38#21
Translation . . . Dumb Ass puts his thumbs in his ears, waggles his fingers, sticks out his tongue and says: "I'm not going to be your friend anymore, nyaah nyaah nyaah!"
LMAO!
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Jun 2017, 14:05#24
It seems the team has now formed.....it's Urinal, Turncut and Pervert. All for one and one for all. It's a beautiful thing really.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Jun 2017, 16:22#25
I am not part of any group - that is for you and your bootlickers. I posted a correction above about the injury of Whiteley and that caused havoc on your side. Wonder why?
28 Jun 2017, 16:38#26
Clearly you feel threatened, Mozart.
Not to worry ... we are all individuals ... no team here ... just the occassional support of factual evidence ... not that you'd know what that is.
PLPlum
Captain21,007 posts
28 Jun 2017, 19:16#29
This is all truly fcking pathetic.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Jun 2017, 19:38#30
Well let's see Plum. I saw an article on Whiteley's injury which speculated on a long absence and posted about who would replace him. That had no partisan content, it was simply a rugby topic. Immediately Tokkie and Rooinek barfed all over it, wrongly it turns out....the article and the point that we needed a replacement captain were mostly right.
..
Then CC with whom I had civil relations for a month or so saw a posting of Rooinek's complaining about the Board, switched sides and attacked me right out of the blue.
..
I really don't care, I respond. But when you say it's 'all fcking pathetic' I have to disagree.....the attacks on me were pretty pathetic and it would be useful if you were a bit more precise.
RORooinek
Captain18,117 posts
RORooinekCaptain18,117 posts
28 Jun 2017, 19:49#31
I wonder if other posters are starting to realise what a vengeful, self-important and childish little twat Moffie really is?
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Jun 2017, 20:01#32
You mean it's taken you 15 years on these Boards for the penny to drop about me....tooooooo funny ....in your case I immediately knew you were a loser.....LMAOFY!
PLPlum
Captain21,007 posts
28 Jun 2017, 22:47#33
Dunno, Moz.
Just a bit awestruck by the amount of energy people on here are willing to waste on this. By "this", I don't mean the original post.
JWJust_win
Captain18,570 posts
JWJust_winCaptain18,570 posts
28 Jun 2017, 22:54#34
It seems like if Mozart and CleverMike reduce their "banter" it starts to include others. Shame it blee ds into rugby subjects.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Jun 2017, 23:05#35
But that's where it started Plum, the original post, which immediately evoked a childish gotcha response. Somebody has to start these spats, pay attention to that dynamic and you will find the problem,
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Jun 2017, 23:54#36
Not a childish gotcha response at all - just a correction on my part. The original response was based on the newspaper reports up to that stage. As per normal the media guessed a time line without the actual specialist report. Once the report was made public it was clear that the absence - based on medical experience - was given as 6 to 8 weeks since there was no operation required,
I could not find any reports anywhere where a 3 months absence was indicated. Where I disagreed with you is that a new captain will be required as a result of the three months absence. If Whiteley missed the Argentina tests the VC will act for one or two matches.
I then gave the return dates based on a six weeks and 8 weeks absence as 29 July and 12 August respectively. If the absence is 6 weeks Whiteley will start training circa three weeks before the first RC test on 19 August.
Based on past experience a player after return will first have one or two bench appearances before starting - but that is a guess and not a certainty.
Thus far there was nothing childish about the response - neither was there in the rest of the response which dealt with the possible selection of Vermeulem and the capataincy be passed to him. There is an obvious chance that Vermeulen be brought into the squad - but I pointed out that experience with the two other foreign-based players in the French tests (Steyn and Hougaard - whose performances was average to poor) may scare the selectors off Vermeulen as well. This is strengthened by the fact that because of injury Vermeulen would be out of rugby for more than three months and there will even be a worse fitness problem in his case. I also referred to Steyn who had a break of only three weeks and was obviously totally unfit - after running about 60 meters he was out of breath - so how fit is the French club players really?
Please note there was no fitness problem with Kitshoff - he was back in SA and training with the Stormers before the tests and unlike Steyn who was not training at all.
Last point - we both would like to see a pre-2015 Vermeulen back in the squad - but all indications was the he playing for Toulon was that he was not a shadow of the player he used to be before injury. I have consequently some doubts as to his selection.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Jun 2017, 01:05#37
Those are all fair points.This is not:
..
'Your mistake is that you really wants Vermeulen as captain - so one has to accept that you are wrong in this case. As I said - bearing in mind the flop made with Fat Fransie and useless Fransie in the French tests - another foreign-based player will have to be exceptional to get into the squad. After his neck injury Vermelen was in the main anything but.'
'.
I was one of the first posters this year to champion Whiteley as Bok captain, and I would prefer him to remain in place.
PLPlum
Captain21,007 posts
29 Jun 2017, 08:14#39
Well I back Whitely for skipper since last year before Strauss was picked
I even predicted that Strauss was gonna be terrible.
Just saying.
29 Jun 2017, 08:46#40
In 2016 I was a little doubtful about Whitely as Bok captain, not because he lacked the leadership qualities, quite the opposite, but because his place in the starting line-up was not set in stone. Fast forward to 2017 and now the dynamics have changed. He is probably the best 8 we have. And what he lacks in physical size, he makes up for in other ways. For example, his speed, his mobility and his lighter frame makes him a good line out option. The simple truth is this, he is a great leader and great teams are built around great leaders. Lastly, I don't think we'll ever see the Vermeulen of 2015 again.
