Who are these Poms and why should we be concerned?

Looking at the Pom team, they might as well be playing lacrosse for all the names I can recognize. Well a slight overstatement. Ashton was last year's flavour of the month.....Tuilagi is a poor man's Nonu, without the skill.....Barrett is the slow serial inside stepper.... Youngs a guy who always plays better off the subs bench.....Cole and Hartley ok I suppose. Mouritz Botha a guy who was expelled from RSA because his first name doesn't go with Botha. The only Pom I have seen do special things is Foden, who cut up O Driscoll quite badly I recall.

So who are the rest and why should we be concerned? While we are wringing our hands because of the loss of experience, and the Sappster is predicting a Pom win.......it seems to me they are even less experienced, less able to call on stars players, away from home, in conditions that will be new to them. Surely a loss to these guys in any test, has to be considered a major disaster?

Am I missing something other than the fact that Heyneke botched the selection process? If this was NZ or Oz he would be punished. Are these guys capable of mounting a challenge? I look for guidance from the north. What are they capable of hurting us with, on Saturday?

The Poms have a newfound ability to hurt you amongst the backs; but that is only as new as 2010, ironically under Johnson. This team does not possess the raw power of traditional England sides. They were also patchy in the 6 Nations, heavily out-muscled by Italy and Scotland. A loss to both would have been a far fairer reflection of where they really are, particularly as they never looked like winning either game until a sloppy charge down sealed the result. If you can get points on the board and defend, they run out of ideas. In every way we have more ammunition that they do. The only vulnerability we have is we do not have enough time to prepare. I should think the Boks, however well they start, will finish stronger. The potential for a loss is there though, and in the context of the next four years could prove costly as it will be as much to them as our 2006 win over them was to us. Breaking a losing streak is decisive. For that reason alone I want no mercy from the Boks. 3-0 is the only option, and with a healthy respect for the opposition and real intensity, it is a realistic goal, even though we have some weak links in our ranks.

Well Cole is one of the best tightheads in the game. Hartley is solid and seems to have stopped his discipline issues. Marler at loosehead, is their last years U20 prop. The guy is a great contributor outside the scrums. Not the biggest lad and no threat at scrum time. The Bok scrum needs to target him. They will miss Corbeserio.

Their locks are at best solid. Botha is a typical boer hard nut but nothing special and I cant say Parling has ever impressed me. They are missing Lawes.

I dont know anything about Johnson their new flanker on debut except to say he is 29, where the hell has he been. Robshaw their skipper and other flanker is solid at best, they will miss Croft here. Morgan their 8 is a mountain of a lad at 118kg and a real handful. Was their find of the 6N

Youngs is a dangerous 9, good player. Farrell at 10 is young and looks pretty useful, nothing special. Barritt  will tackle all day but provides very little else. Tualagi at 13 is their danger man if he fires. At 6ft and 110kg's the 20 year can be a real handful. Their back 3 are dangerous, with Brown at 15 and Foden moved to the wing. Ashton has lost his mojo but seemed to find a bit of it against the Baabaas.

Its no great shakes this England side, its solid with few real stars. If we trun up we should beat them comfortably, but then again we do not know what to expect from our new Bok coach and side.

So Moz, how has Meyer botched the selection, by all accounts this is the side you would have selected bar Spies and Kirchner.

The only players they are missing on tour are Lawes and flankers Croft and Wood

Since 1992 it was always said of the English Touring Cricket Team that their first words at the Airport was:-

"Hallo Mums, nice to be at home"

Mind you that is still the case - with 2 players from SA permanent fixtures in the team.

Is that now also the case with the POMMY RUGBY team as well.   I can just imagine what Botha would say to his mother -  Mummy in tears of joy: - Ag Mammie ek is so bly om by julle te wees - moenie huil nie" 

As I keep saying, you are so superior to us in all ways that I can't believe you're even troubling yourselves by asking the question.

Unlike Saffex, I rate Marler as a very good player and he was pushing Corbisiero close, even if he had been fully fit. Hartley played exceptionally well against the Barbarians, and I don't say that lightly, Brown is a better player than Foden in many respects and deserves his chance at Fullback. To have Foden on the Wing, we are getting the best of all worlds. Ashton, having lost his way, has re-found it in the past few weeks. Barritt tackles, Tuilagi is not simply a large player who blunders through the mid-field; he too can pass well, but he has not been playing well to my mind and headed to SA carrying an injury.

Farrell isn't as one-dimensional as Saffex suggests. He is very young and learning all the time. Youngs and Care should be our 9's of choice, but Dickson is being rewarded with a bench spot ahead of Care, who is either still carrying an injury or being made to play his way back into the Squad after his expulsion pre 6 Nations. Youngs is rediscovering his form as well.

Johnson is a good player and deserves his chance. We are missing Wood and Croft, so he gets his chance. Robshaw is a very good player himself and a very good Captain. Morgan is still improving but my choice at 8 when fit.

Cole is also young and still learning the trade, but all of the forwards are benefitting from Graham Rowntree's tutelage it seems.

Parling is a better player than Saffex suggests and, although not my choice as he is not English, Botha has proved himself to be a destructive player during the 6 Nations.

We are a young side, we have many injuries and are still trying to find our best combinations. This will be a steep learning curve.

Marler is a good player but his primary function is to scrum. This is a weakness of his and much to do with the fact that he is small by prop standards. Cole taught him a lesson in that final I watched at Twickers.

Playing well against the Baabaas means very little given how over the hill and past it the Baabaas players were, but Hartley is a good player and Cole is one of the best tightheads in the game.

Botha is solid, I'd put him on par with a Johan Muller. I have seen nothing of note from Parling or Robshaw. Morgan is good. Youngs and Care are up there with the best 9's in the game. Farrell looks good, but I keep reading that he has shortcommings. I dont rate Barritt at all, you should be playing Turner-Hall. Tuilagi is your danger man. Your 3 out wide are good

I believe Marler was credited with outdoing Cole at that Final you were at, as he was against Saints during the Semi Final, Saffex.

Barritt wouldn't be in my team full stop, given he is not English. Turner-Hall has had a slight dip in form to my mind, which is why Jonathan Joseph is covering the Centre bench spot even though he only gained his first England outing against the Barbarians. I would have George Lowe and Henry Trinder in my Squad, so it's nice to see Lowe included. Antony Allen is also playing very well. There really is no need for Barritt full stop.

Parling and Robshaw are both very good players and, more importantly, English. Always a bonus, I find.

"Barritt wouldn't be in my team full stop, given he is not English"....but Tuilagi's forefathers were at the Battle of Hastings?  I would have thought you would be grateful for the help and not be so snippy about it.

Saffex well knows my opinions of Tuilagi's inclusion in my team too...do I have to spell it out to you ? He's not English and I wouldn't have him either. That ok with you ? Then again, you're only South African when you feel like it, aren't you, Mozart ? Being a bone fide American and all these days ?

Some of us have a little more loyalty to our mother countries and would prefer our sports teams to reflect that.

 Which idiots credited Marler with outdoing Cole on the day, that is the biggest load of rubbish I have heard in ages. Hell I was sitting with Quins fans and they conceded the lad was being taught a lesson. The Tigers pack dominated the scrums by some distance, Quins played the better attacking rugby.

I have seen Marler a few times now and he is not a strong scrummager, doubt he ever will be unless he muscles up considerably. 

Man I have read some rubbish in my time, this takes the cake

Tigers                                                                        Quins

Scrums on own feed 5 won, 0 lost (100.0%) 5 won, 2 lost (71.4%) 

Actually parochialism has never appealed to me in it's South African, American Greek, British or whatever forms. Small people thinking their backyard is the centre of the universe. Whereas we are all specks in an unimportant part of the cosmos. A monumental accident. So why you would think Hadley Wood UK is more important than Hubbards Woods USA beats me. Embrace diversity is my advice.

In the one corner we have Becs doing a little chest beating re the fine English side. Mind you the side has too many players who are not English as has the country it self.

Then we have sapster who thinks there are a number of poor players in the England side yet firmly blieves that England will beat the Boks.

Then we have Moz who  thinks Meyer has botched the Bok selection process but that the Boks will win. Dr Moz also somehow comes to the conclusuion that the whole Cosmos was a monumental accident being led to this sad conclusion doubtlessly by the fact of us having ou sapster with us!!!  One thing for sure though the Cosmos was no accident and has all the hallmarks of intelligent design as even the simplest cell comprehensively proves.

Hahahahahahaha

Beenkop, try get your facts straight for a start. I have not said there are poor English players, some are average others are good. Where do I indicate that I FIRMLY believe England will win bozo?

Sorry sapster I did think you and Moz had settled that one. He believes Bokke will win and you England. If you have changed your mind again that's okay I guess but hard to kep up with.

But for the record, at least for now,  who is going to win the test then?

Given the Pom side selected, I am going to go with a Bok win, despite Kirchner at 15, Jean at 13, Morne at 10 and Alberts at 7

What a flip flop sapster! You have just spoilt all Moz's fun!  Becs also wont appreciative this turn of events - she is very upbeat.

Dave in spite of your disdain for Morne and Jean you  now want to go  Bokke? I gave you opportunity after opportunity to "forswear your choice of the Poms". Not once but several times you stuck with your Pom choice? It's in the books ou swaer......you are in the Poms'corner.

Moz you haver me confused with someone else, in their corner I will never be, back them to win a test is a possibility. Morne and Jean will let us down and sell us short, but since seeing the Pom side selected, I think we should win it..............and its mostly down to Marler at loosehead. Had Corbeserio been fit we would have been in a fight to beat the Pom pack, Maler is no great scrummager and we should dominate here and from this beat the Poms - but its going to be close and we are going to play boring rugby run by our ponderous plodder at 10

Oh boy you do make it up. Jannie started the S15 slowly but is back to his best. That Sharks frontrow has been kicking arse since Beast returned. Steenkamp was good, but Beast is far better and Coenie is a great back-up