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FORUM / RUGBY /  Who to replace Willie le Roux?

Who to replace Willie le Roux?

Started by clevermike31 REPLIES1,879 VIEWS· 26 Nov 2021, 12:18
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Nov 2021, 12:18
#1
26 Nov 2021, 12:18#1

I stick with remarks I made a few years ago.   After sawing Muller du Plessis play for the sevens today the guy has -


*    ball skills and  ball sense\

*    amazing pace, and

*    excellent defense.


This youngster is special - he would give the Springbok backline a major attacking advantage,    

MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
26 Nov 2021, 13:10
#2
26 Nov 2021, 13:10#2
I have to agree. He went to Paarl Gymnasium and showed early on his talent. These are players that needs to be in bok fold sooner than later. If not they will be nabbed by NH teams. Tyrone Greene is another top candidate. I wonder sometimes if the bok coaching staff ever reads forums like ours? It would do good I think.
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
26 Nov 2021, 14:17
#3
26 Nov 2021, 14:17#3

It's unfortunately not always about the skill set.... and we should all know this by now

Look how many cricket and rugby players we have already lost over the many years.... to other shores...…

Your skin colour very often dictates how you fare as a sportsman in this country, not always your talent

SE
SebPro2,680 posts
26 Nov 2021, 14:50
#4
26 Nov 2021, 14:50#4

Tyrone Green could easily be the one....Xavi sent us a video on the Quins versus Bristol game which I guess very few watched as it seemed insignificant  at the time of matches of more interest amongst Saffers who don't watch much rugby when other teams play.

It was a brilliant game and massive comeback result after half time by Harlequins of which Tyrone played a major part. Well worth watching.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Nov 2021, 15:12
#5
26 Nov 2021, 15:12#5
No chance it hell It will be Fassi, Gelant or Willemse before Muller du Plessis Muller is small and can get away with it in 7’s. Most the 7’s converts don’t make it. Kwagga is the only one
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,230 posts
26 Nov 2021, 16:33
#6
26 Nov 2021, 16:33#6

Kolbe was a good 7's convert. 

SE
SebPro2,680 posts
26 Nov 2021, 18:47
#7
26 Nov 2021, 18:47#7

"I wonder sometimes if the bok coaching staff ever reads forums like ours? It would do good I think"

Can you imagine a panel of selectors comprising of the Huffer, Mozzz, Saffex and Ol'Maaikie....

lol.....

https://youtu.be/WGau8RBMNG8

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Nov 2021, 00:08
#8
30 Nov 2021, 00:08#8
Kolbe was primarily a 15’s player who dabbled with 7’s like Habana did He was not a 7’s convert
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Nov 2021, 00:30
#9
30 Nov 2021, 00:30#9

Tyrone Green.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Nov 2021, 01:05
#10
30 Nov 2021, 01:05#10
Green will play for England he is the wrong colour for a Bok wing or fullback. Willemse appears to be next in line because they identified him a few years back Makes no sense because Fassi and Gelant are better options I like Willemse but not sure how he should be utilised - either as a utility to replace Frans or he needs to specialise at 12 or 15, certainly not 10
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
30 Nov 2021, 01:15
#11
30 Nov 2021, 01:15#11

"Muller is small and can get away with it in 7’s."

Muller Du Plessis's height and weight is on par with Zane Kirschner and Louis Ludick your past favourites....no?

Also, he's more talented than either of them.

The dynamic Jason Robinson was a mere 173cm.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Nov 2021, 03:58
#12
30 Nov 2021, 03:58#12

I started this thread on the replacement of Le Roux as he was assessed as rating a 4  in  all tests played in 2021 - so something needs to be done since his performances are below par.    The other failuer in all tests were  Nyakane - but he is not a stating prop and should npot be.     The top-rated players for the year were Etzebeth (8) and De Allende (8).

Now back to the replacement and the players mentioned above,   So what are the stats of the players mentioned:-:

Muller du Plessis     - weight      85 kgs   - height 1,85

Uphellele Fassi        -  weight     87 kgs   -  height  1,87

Damian Willemse    -  weight     90 kgs  -   height  1,84

Warrick Gelant        -   weight    89  kgs  -  height   1,78

Tyrone Green           -  weight     89  kgs  -  height   1,79

So none of the players are really heavyweights and the difference in height is minimal as well  So one has to look at  three aspects  that should be consdered, namely pace, defense and ball skills:-

Pace            -    1  Du Plesssis, 2  Fassi, 3 Green, 4  Willemse, 5   Gelant

Defense       -    1   Green, 2 Du Plessis, 3  Willemse, 4  Gelant, 5  Fassi

Ball skills    -    1  Du Plessis, 2 Green, 3  Willemse, 4  Fassi, 5  Geland

Ball sense    -    1  Du Plessis  2  Green, 3  Willemse 4  Fassi,   5  Gelant

I base my assessment on actual performances on both test and 7's level.  In the assessment Du Plessis is by far first in 3 of  4 aspects mentioned and in the other one second.   For me pace is as issue at full back - Le Roux was definitely deficient in that category and ball sense and attacking ability is important when it comes to backline attacks.

I like Green a lot - both on provincial and club level - but pace left him out on 7's level.   

Sorry - but my choice remains the same.      .   

    

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
30 Nov 2021, 09:47
#13
30 Nov 2021, 09:47#13
Sorry to Burst the Greene bubble but the man has no pace. Has decent acceleration and everything else but seriously, he’s not quick at all.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,230 posts
30 Nov 2021, 11:38
#14
30 Nov 2021, 11:38#14

Greene does not have the pace for test level, Fassi is much faster.
Kolbe is smaller than Willie Leroux - but is much more physical. 

KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
30 Nov 2021, 14:57
#15
30 Nov 2021, 14:57#15

Well, we need to actually start evolving our backline attack and not just play off 9 or use our 15 in broken play to get the ball away on counter attack. 

I always felt that we need to be able to play off 10 and 12. Probably why England ripped us a new one. They have better distributers. 

So, I think Fassi is great, still worried about his defence but then Willie has been rubbish. 

Green is in form and seem to find the gaps and good field position, pace doesn't really help you much if you can't find the space. 

But agree with Saffex, probably end playing for England, but then England new 15 is super tall and did exceptionally well against the boks. 

Not Gelant, he kicks the ball away far too much. Great player though 

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
30 Nov 2021, 15:15
#16
30 Nov 2021, 15:15#16
Nobody liking Bosch for 15? His defence is probably the primary concern but the guy has an eye for making plays and has an educated boot.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
01 Dec 2021, 00:04
#17
01 Dec 2021, 00:04#17
Mike your stats are wrong Fassi and Gelant weigh 92kg Willemse weighs 94kg Muller du Plessis weighs 85kg Denny I’m not on about height more their weight - Jason Robinson was short but built like a brick shithouse - much like Kolbe is these days Muller du Plessis is very thin and would get blown away in 15’s
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
01 Dec 2021, 00:05
#18
01 Dec 2021, 00:05#18
Plum Bosch is shit at 15, far too fragile - he lacks the hard edge Needs to stick to 10
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Dec 2021, 00:32
#19
01 Dec 2021, 00:32#19

You make a very thin to the description  - must be kidding  - he is no thinner than Fassi.  I do got my eights from the profiles provided by SARU - so I do not know what the other weights you are using?   Anyway I disagree with you.    Du Plessis is pacier than any of the above players and has more natural skills than them.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
01 Dec 2021, 00:36
#20
01 Dec 2021, 00:36#20
Bullshit Fassi is the most skilful youngster we have in the country by a country mile - he is far far more gifted than du Plessis Fassi is not bulky but he is very tall which gives him enough grunt to play test rugby du Plessis is thin and average height - he is too light for 15’s SARU stats are a joke they still have Etzebeth at 117kg the last time I looked Sharks website has Fassi at 92kg
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
01 Dec 2021, 00:51
#21
01 Dec 2021, 00:51#21

There's a lot to like about Muller and if I had to single out a few I'd pick his ability to think on his feet as well as being a double thinker  and he also  has an instinctive ability to read play. To me that's arguably his greater strengths, there are others.


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
01 Dec 2021, 01:26
#22
01 Dec 2021, 01:26#22
Muller du Plessis is a good player but we have only seen him operate in the space afforded in 7’s - playing in the confines of 15’s is a completely different ball game Most 7’s converts fail and the fact Muller lacks size is an added disadvantage Time will tell whether he even wants to make the change to 15’s and if he does he would need to make one hell of an impression to surpass what Fassi and Gelant have shown
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Dec 2021, 14:00
#23
01 Dec 2021, 14:00#23

Fassi is sp[eedy - but reaqlly not an acceptable defender.   He is also not really a thinking player.   I have sen him play many times and was always afraid of the inevtable msitakes in games.   

Gelant is slow and no agile - a good performer in traffic - but too slow for a wing or full back.   

SE
SebPro2,680 posts
01 Dec 2021, 19:48
#24
01 Dec 2021, 19:48#24

Yeah, the rugby world misses great fullbacks like Andre Joubert, Sergio Blanco, Christian Cullen, Gavin Hastings and Jeff Wilson....none available in this league.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
01 Dec 2021, 20:06
#25
01 Dec 2021, 20:06#25

Jeff Wilson was a great wing...the only survivor of the wings who plaid in the 95 RWC final...he probably played 15 too, but I liked him as a wing...

Hugh Reece Edwards was also a great fullback in the Fransie mold...Fransie should have been our full time fullback till Willie took over...should have played many more tests...


PS, You forgot Don Clarke too...another Fransie type 15.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
01 Dec 2021, 22:06
#26
01 Dec 2021, 22:06#26
Mike your take on Fassi and Gelant is on par with any crap omelette comes up with You are fucking clueless Rassie makes Muller du Plessis look like a ballet dancer
MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
01 Dec 2021, 23:48
#27
01 Dec 2021, 23:48#27
There is no real signs that R&N wants to replace Willie....I also think we need a new fullback ASAP....but I strongly believe that they will stick with past form Le roux, as they seem to believe he is brilliant...Go figure....Fassi is fast but cannot defend very well...muller du plessis is fast, thinks on his feet and defends well. Bigger is not always better.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
02 Dec 2021, 00:15
#28
02 Dec 2021, 00:15#28
Man there are some ignorant clowns about
MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
02 Dec 2021, 01:21
#29
02 Dec 2021, 01:21#29
And I guess you believe you not one them, right? Every player position has different class weights, surely they must not all be build like Lood?
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
02 Dec 2021, 11:10
#30
02 Dec 2021, 11:10#30
No you dumbfuck saying Fassi does not defend well is rubbish and you are implying he does not think on his feet Muller du Plessis has achieved absolutely zero in 15’s so even suggesting him is a joke The guy has impressed in 7’s but not nearly as much as say Kok or Senatla and what have those two achieved in 15’s - practically zero unfortunately Little du Plessis has less chance of making an impression than Kok and Senatla have. You lot need to wake up
MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
02 Dec 2021, 14:30
#31
02 Dec 2021, 14:30#31
Fassi has attack instinct but has showed his defence lapses....I have seen this when he plays and so has other people on here...but besides that at the moment, I would even be happy if R&N started him regularly....but the fact is that if you look at the make up of the team, you will hardly see N put faith in the new players that are there....his vision most probably, is that of playing with the oldies in WC...yes we are hopeful that R&N builds player depth and that they actually give the talent a run. Why is fassi actually there if he never gets a start??
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
02 Dec 2021, 21:08
#32
02 Dec 2021, 21:08#32
It’s bullshit that Fassi has defensive issues - he is no different to the majority of players and I’d certainly back his defence over Willie’s Fassi is a phenomenal talent and the sooner he starts at 15 for the Boks, the better
— END OF THREAD —

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