Wise words from Mr Meyer

Found tis fuller transcript on Iafrica

Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer has no limit to the number of foreign-based players he may select in his team, but those heading to Japan can kiss their Bok careers goodbye.

Meyer, speaking at the conclusion of day two of his first national squad training session in Cape Town, revealed that the attitude of Japanese clubs make it impossible to consider players plying their trade there.

It means players like Fourie du Preez, Jaque Fourie and now Andries Bekker - all still on the Bok mentor's wish-list - have effectively ruled themselves out of the selection frame.

In contrast players in Europe - like Francois Louw, Ruan Pienaar and now Juandré Kruger - are still eligible for Test selection.

Meyer, who admitted that the departure of a seasoned player like Bekker has left him with a No.5 headache, said they are working on some youngsters to fill the vacancy created as a result of the Japan situation.

"I have always been worried about the No.5 lock [position]," the Bok mentor told a media scrum.

"When Andries [Bekker] was injured, Juandré [Kruger] really came through. Andries is playing some of his best rugby now, but he is not available.

"Juandré [despite going to Racing Metro in France] will still be available to play.

"It is not an ideal situation. I was worried last year already. Players like Victor [Matfield], Johann Muller, Danie Rossouw, who could play at No.5, Bakkies [Botha] all departed - that was a substantial number of our locks that left South Africa.

"I don't think any country can afford that."

Meyer said there are a few youngsters coming through.

"The problem is that No.5 lock is your most important player in the pack, because he runs the line-outs, he runs the far side defence and he is also your main taker of kick-offs.

"While there are youngsters, it will take them two or three years to get up to where Andries is (Agree and that is why he is a loss) and Juandre in a sense. It is not just how they play, it is how they manage the line-outs. You need a guy who can win the line-outs, even if he is not your best player around the park - to find that balance is going to be very difficult." (EG wee matfield?)

A work in progress

When asked who the youngsters are that he has identified, the Bok coach said he spoke to a few players that are willing to move to No.5 to fill that gap.

"Johan van Graan, who I rate as probably one of the best line-out coaches in the world - he worked with Victor [Matfield] for years - he is going to spend a lot of time with those players.

"He is sitting every night till 10pm/11pm working with those players."

Meyer revealed that they are working with the franchises to convert some players into No.5 locks.

"I have said to Johan [van Graan], I don't care if he sleeps at [Sharks lock] Pieter-Steph du Toit's house for two or three weeks, or at the Sharks, but he needs to start working with him.

"Although he [Pieter-Steph du Toit] plays like a No.4 [lock] I believe he can be one of the best No.5s ever.

"It is going to take time and I am grateful for the Sharks, they are bringing him in, even though he is only 20 years old. He is starting to call the line-outs as well.

"[Sharks loan player] Franco [van der Merwe] is also playing good rugby. The fact that he has moved [from the Lions] to the Sharks has helped him - he is playing with a great pack.

"I think we will manage [the situation at No.5], as there are one or two youngsters."

Injured Baby Bok Marvin Orie is another youngster earmarked for big things in the not too distant future.

"It is a pity [he is injured], as I have known Marvin Orie since he was 16. He would have been the SA Under-20 lock and captain, but is injured now.

"He is very good in the line-outs and worked with Victor for years.

"There are youngsters, they just need time to develop."

Japan a problem

Meyer said he was disappointed with the Japan situation.

"I always thought it would benefit us, because they would play less rugby and their season is so short they could play for South Africa as well," he told the media scrum.

"Unfortunately I didn't realise it will work out this way that they don't want their players to play. Even though there is an IRB ruling that say they must play, the players are earning good money and they don't want to lose their contracts - it is a very difficult situation.

"I still believe that guys like Fourie du Preez and Jaque Fourie can play for the Boks, we need that experience at the back and they are still world class players. It is a pity that they can't play on the end of the year tour or the June Tests.

"It would have been great to have had those players around and get the youngsters through the system.

"Johan Goosen and Jaco Taute would have benefitted so much from the likes of Fourie du Preez and Jaque Fourie - there are a lot of young backs coming through, we just need a bit of experience."

Asked about his policy toward overseas-based players, Meyer made it clear there is no limit as to the number of foreign-based players he can select.

"I have always said, if there is a 50-50 [call] I will always go for the guys in South Africa.

"You also want to keep the guys in South Africa.

"However, the way rugby is changing you have to pick your best team - the only consideration for me is if the guy rally wants to play for South Africa. (Please note Muncher!)

"[Bath-based openside flank] Francois Louw for me is a prime example of that.

"Flouw said from day one: 'I really want to play for the Boks, that is my dream. I left because I thought I was not in the mix anymore.'

"He changed our season last year. When he came into the Bok team, along with Duane [Vermeulen] we had two guys competing on the floor.

"Another example is Bakkies [Botha], who I believe can still play for the Boks. However, Eben [Etzebeth] was a 20-year-old, it was a 50-50, I gave Eben a chance and suddenly he is now probably the best lock in the world at No.4.

"If there is a youngster that can get a place, we will bring the youngster through.

"However, I learnt a very, very hard lesson in losing 11 out of 11 [Super 12 matches in 2002] - that is that you can't play with 22 youngsters. (PLEASE NOTE SNAPSTER!!!)

"There must be a mix and where there is the likes of Bryan [Habana] available, I will be stupid not to select him ( Snaspter and ou maaaikie are you reading this)

Clearly Meyer is on the right track dispite many a plaintiff bleat here. 

I do note abnob is lapping up all this Bok fan meltdown. Bwahahahahahha count me out! 

Go Meyer and the Bokkke!!!!

Mavin Orie, now there is a joke.......the guy is all of about 103kg's. Its a blessing that he is injured and not available for the Baby Boks. This is clearly a political selection.

Meyer is clearly stuck in a time warp with the mention of Fourie du Preez, Jaque Fourie, Johan Muller, Bakkies, Danie Rossouw and the fact that he used Guthro Steenkamp and CJ v/d Linde last year. Heaven help the Boks. Best of all he is saying Franco v/d Merwe is playing well for the Sharks - what a joke.

We have more than enough experience in the squad given we have the likes of Habana, JP, Frans, Jean, Morne, Pienaar, Beast, Strauss, Bismark, Jannie, Alberts and Spies in the squad. Beenkop, would you prefer a few more old timers in that mix.

One thing is clear Meyer is out of touch. Hell if Steph du Toit takes 3 years to get to Juandre Krugers level in the test arena, he will go down as a massive flop

Saffex

You should realize by now the Meyer Specialities,   His silly and out-of-touch remarks match his silly and out-of-touch selections.   Kruger measured up because it took him years to learn to make line-out calls - bugger the rest of his performance in respect on he field of play.  Hell - if I was Kruger I would sue him for making him out to be a slow learner.   That is one gem - the other is that Du Toit moved to five in the Stormers game and made the line-out call and the Stormers did not win a single line-out on the Sharks throw-in. 

If it take years to do that - then the players must really be sub-human in intelligence.   Maybe Meyer believes what he does - becuase it took him years to learn the basics and he is not there yet,   

What I dont get is why Meyer seems to think that the No 5 has to make the line-out calls. The line-out calls could be made by anyone of the forwards. Read at 8 used to make them for the AB's. Bloody hell its hardly a mathematical equation the caller has to solve before making the call. 

Lets face it Matfield stood out as a line-out jumper, for the rest, the locks tends to be of similar strength come line-out takes. A player like Juandre Kruger has hardly stood out come line-out time. He has been solid enough. So his take that the lock must be able to win his line-outs and therefore does not have to be the best player around the park, explains exactly why he sees so much in average locks like Juandre Kruger and Franco v/d Merwe - neither of which are anywhere near Matfield in the line-outs and add nothing in general play. So effectively he is selling us short, for if we are going to have a 5 that is not so great around the park, then they certainly need to be dominant line-out exponents.

As for the No 5 being the main reciever of kick-offs, what crap, again this could be anyone of your 4, 5, 7, or 8 and certainly does not have to be your 5. Much like your 5 having to run the far side defence - again what crap. The fact that a player has 5 on his back does not mean he has to run the far side defence.

Meyer is clearly stuck in a time warp. I player X traditionally calls the line out calls, takes the kick-offs and runs the far side defence, then dont dare expect player Y to make those calls. Hell next he will be telling us that only a flyhalf can take kick off or kick for poles

Sorry I do not want to be disrespectful and nasty but I've seen it all too often before with human nature. You get people who are too cautious, too conservative, fear of failure motivated. This is the picture I see. The results are very mediocre at best and not up to expectations of the older days of the Boks...rugby has changed and it;s a case of adapt innovation or die. The selections don't indicate a different approach...well at least not convincingly...there are many who agree on this...good school coaches I've spoken to.

1 step forward then 3 steps back...The youngsters can never really develope and are  kept wrapped in cotton wool...warming benches. They  should be thrown in the deep end...he shows very little faith in youth and has sentiments for players that are at best peeked and over their best, except for some exceptions. His vision is short term at a cost of long term...short-sighted vision. We saw that in PDV. We do not want to go around the mulberry bush again. Same old mistakes...boring rugby.

Recalling players from overseas is wrong too when there is plenty of stock here.

Yea the problem is beanob!....and Mr Meyer too i spose, they both want to play (i like how mikey put it) 'stone age rugby' the boks were solid last year, however never came with a plan b or the ability to change/adapt a game plan or turn states into points.

Meyer is quite right in needing the likes of fourie and jaque to do basically what he himself has failed to do thus far and get the backline moving.

I don't think Meyer himself is the problem, he's got the experience.. Perhapes maybe get some better people around him. Wayne Smith would probably be keen, if you can afford him.

How strange... SA has a Lock shortage, never thought i would read that.

I disagree with Meyer. I believe that the long-term interests of South African rugby would be served a lot better if only home-based players playing in the Super 15 and the Currie Cup were eligible for Springbok selection.

It's a professional game and I have no problem with anyone going off to seek his fortune overseas but if you're good enough to play for the Springboks, you should prove it by playing in South Africa. Let the has-beens make some big bucks when their best playing days are behind them and let's keep our local rugby strong. We're leaking too many promising youngsters already . . . let's not encourage them further by rewarding them with Springbok caps as well.

 Firstly,  abnob is wetting himself as the Boks at Dunedin and the Poms at Twicks gave the abs a severe snotklap. Unfortuntely for us the missed goal kicks etc ment the scoreboard didnt reflect the rugby played but more of that rugby they do not want.

Now ou abnob hopes we adopt netball rugby as well. sorry abnob we are coming to get you oaks and it wont be netball rugby! Neither will we be playing wee brussouw and wee daniels so forget about that as well. Meyer is much to canny for that..

Neither will we have a team packed with youngsters - another blunder that Meyer will avoid. 

Greettings ou rooitwit. The big flaw in your position is that we are loosing players far from being overthehill. Heard of Louw, Stander, Koster, Quin Roux etc. I even hear Timo Sweil wants to go.

We cannot remotely compete with overseas salaries. Hence we either say goodbye to talenr we need or we recognise hard realities. Meyer wisely chooses the latter. 

Given the shortening lifespan of players due to the physicality of rugby today and the amount of games played a professional rugby has to make hay while the uncertain sun is shining. I dont expect this exodus to dry up unless the NH set limits which is unlikely. Take Bekker - at the hight of his powers says stuff the Bok contract and give me the boodle. Wise man.

If we need overseas players pick them. Sound thinking Meyer

Beeno

In essemnce I have no problems that in seriously problematic cases Meyer picks foreign players - but he made a spectacular fool of himself last year during the EOYT.   His squad selections were so putrid that he had to call up players to fill in.   Imagine picking players like Van der Linde - who could not make the starting team of his franchise and others of the same calibre.   He also selected Steenkamp.

Meyer has no idea about the form and abilities of the players concerned.   Steenkamp for example is often enough playing from the bench for Toulouse and they have to give him rest breaks between matches - otherwise he just does not measure up,   Did Meyer know that for instance? End result - Steenka,p was poor against the Scots and very average against the English.   He was fat and not eally fit enough. 

The problem is that these players play on Club level and could let themselves go,  Take for instance Francois Steyn - he definitely was overweight when he came back from France.   Selecting players in foreign countries  is a gamble - nobody really knows what their condition is at the time of selection.  Futhermore there is no training opportunities to bring them into the team.

However, Meyer is a dolt when it comes to selection of players and in making the relevant statement he must cover for his inevitable selection of Morne Steyn and Kruger - his favoured flyhalf and lock.   

Really the next disggrace is imminent and therafter I forsee that Meyer will be gone. 

Baboon-ou,.as ever, you're too fundamentally stupid to have any kind of debate with. Please point out the part of my post where I said that we're only losing old-timers to the overseas clubs.

 Rooi its a tough one as there seems to be no way we can compete with the money offered up here and in Japan and sadly the modern trend is that these clubs are now also targeting our youngsters and not only the old timers looking to end in style.

Realistically the kids that leave, know they are not going to be in the picture for Bok selection, so I think it would make no difference if we excluded them from the selection process or not. Bok coaches tend to only draw on foreign based Boks and not youngsters who have yet to win a cap. So effectively a block on Bok selection will not stop the youngsters going. The only thing stoping youngsters leaving, is their desire to play for the Boks.

Uncapped players like CJ Stander, Quinn Roux, Nick Koster and Jandre Marais know they will never be in contention for Bok selection while playing away from home. Putting a block on foreign based players whould not have stopped these youngsters leaving.

What might have stopped these youngsters leaving is their S15 coaches looking after them and not overlooking them for old farts or ordinary players. This is the issue that really pisses me off. 

Taking Beeno and his rugby color commentary seriously is extremely difficult when he continues to mention the Dunedin test, but conveniently ignores the 2nd test won comfortably by the AB's, even when 10 points down, with yep your own self described "Basketball" rugby, which we call simply "Highly skilled played rugby, that wins championships"! The loss to England was the AB gifting them the game due to bad day at the office, something other teams tend to have more than AB's.

With selecting overseas players. The AB's don't do it and it hasn't hurt them and we have a smaller player pool than SA and for all intents and purposes we are often reminded of the huge talent pool in SA, so why bother selecting overseas why not tap into that talent?