Woeful Bulls - Time for Jake to retire

So just saw the Bulls getting their arses handed to them by a scratch team made out of some seriously harde baarde. 

Man, Ruan Pienaar is pushing close to 40 and landed all of his penalties and controlled the game well from 10. 

Then, the bulls with all of their stars and geriatrics, but young if you compare them to some of the Cheetah players couldn't string anything together. 

What a woeful season for the bulls. Not to mention that this team was brimming with the bulls front line player. Some seriously questionable decisions. 

Jake is 59, wonder if the bulls should move him to early retirement, but I can't see how they are going to get any decent performances out of this team next season. Which is only 4 months away. 

Hope the players can rest, bulk up and come up with a decent game plan and team culture. 

Ja Jake has health issues too. 

Love the final Cheetahs vs Pumas.Bot h teams playing exciting brand of rugby. 

Just baffles me how a frontline team that made the finals one year, beat Leinster at home, can't even beat a Currie cup team. 

Not sure if the players are to blame. Maybe they had a long season and too tired. Lots of travelling and just want to put their feet up and reset. 

Or is it Jake who's finally fizzled out 

I don't know how he has been able to do anything with most of the players he has. He doesn't have what I would call a traditionally sound Bulls squad. Jake is still a top line coach, and the best option for the Boks at present. 

The quota coach drove the team. Was part of those games the white coach left to the quota coach.

All good games driven by the white coach, all the bad driven by the quota coach.

Get rid of the quota coach and then only good games.

l'Grande Merde

The bulls major owners are Rupert and Mosepo - they gave the Bulls millions more than any franchise team in SA to appoint White as coach and to get the best possible players on contract.  

They also appointed Brits to look after their rugby investment.   That being the case if White has weak players he has only himself to blame.    Personally I think the problem is White's - nobody else.   He often is successful in his first year as a coach and then the collapse sets in.      

l'Grande Merde

The bulls major owners are Rupert and Mosepo - they gave the Bulls millions more than any franchise team in SA to appoint White as coach and to get the best possible players on contract.  

They also appointed Brits to look after their rugby investment.   That being the case if White has weak players he has only himself to blame.    Personally I think the problem is White's - nobody else.   He often is successful in his first year as a coach and then the collapse sets in.      

As opposed to Harrassmiss who failed in his first year, lucked his way in his second year…..and then the rot set in.

 Still going away thinking shit rules rugby because he know s too little about Rugby.   

Investment. Not a word that computes in South Africa. White is a proven entity, the dumbos you referenced are not. Jake deserves better. I glanced the squad he has, and it didn't inspire confidence. Ende. 

l'Grande Merde

Do you understand English?   The Bulls and white as given a massive amount f money to recruit players,    He was not told who to recruit by anybody.     If he recruited tripe taen ha has only himself to blame.    Do you want to tell me that Rupert and Motsepe - both dollar billionaires -  do not know anything about investments? 

Anyway I can see clearly that if  White does not resign he may be told by the "non-investors" to go,     

We need an architect. Mallett, and Kitch especially, were not architects. A rebuild is on the cards and nobody does it better than Jake. 

Don't get me wrong. I've always supported Jake and understood when the Boks did a nose dive that he was going through a rebuilding phase. We saw some fantastic youngsters coming through like Schalc Burger, Habana and Frans Steyn under him. Then you had the golden generation of the Bulls with Fourie Du Preez, Matfield, Botha. But he was also smart in getting Os back into the team and bringing Montgomery back from overseas and selected him as his primary goal kicker. 

He had great success in the first year and won the Tri-Nations with De Wet Barry as Marius Joubert as our centres. Jaco van der Westhuizen was playing at 10, but he didn't want to play there and insisted on playing at 15. Then the team took a knock, Barry got dropped and we never saw him again really. He did try a bunch of players. But I also think he missed some golden opportunities. We had Barret and Waylon Murrey that was setting super rugby alight. Young JP Pietersen excelling. He even tried Peter Grant who was never even super rugby quality. 

But it paid off and we won the world cup, then that same time went on to beat the lions and have a perfect year where they beat the all blacks 3 times in year but under Piet Helium. But everything was set up thanks to Jake. 

But for some reason, I don't see any similarities. His team is 3 seasons in now. He is playing Goosen at 15, Simalane hasn't even got a look in this year but instead opt for Hendriks or Mapoe along with Vorster. Then kept pushing old Steyn and Bismark all season. 

He also went crazy on buying a bunch of loose forwards when they need a real 4 lock with grunt. A proper tight head and a decent 10 or backup to Goosen. 

Why didn't they get Serfontein and Kriel back. Both are 29 and can play at this level for another 4 years while the work on the next batch centres to replace them. I'm not concerned with their outside backs, they have Moodie, Arendse and Kriel. 

Then there is the forgotten man, Sbu, scores when he plays but for some reason Jake is not happy with his off field antics. 

Perhaps Jakes pushes players too much during the week. 

Listening to Schalc Brits talk about how well Saracens treated the players over 30. They didn't do that much intense training and had a lot of mid week non rugby related fun stuff to do. They were really well looked after and the players felt settled and happy. 

Remember Brendan Venter, he was their coach and they performed really well and still to this day. 

So I think Jakes 9 to 5 graft all day doesn't fit in with professional rugby. 

You look at Dobbo, WP man all the way through but he is getting so much out of players that should never even leave the currie cup. But it is working, 2 finals in a row, 2 finals at home. 

Probably realise he needs a decent tight five and less razed dazzle rugby. 

So for me Jake needs to take a page out of Saracens handbook. 

Stop being a head teacher, it doesn't sit well with modern players. 

Mapoe is a bit past his best, but he is far more talented than Similane. Goosen and Similane alone are enough to collapse a game all on their own. Quite remarkable they've done anything at all. 

Goosen, like Dud Toit and Luke Watson is another of the South African rugby pipe dreams.

Ja, Goosen has always been a very frustrating player. Bombed for the Boks under Meyer, but did amazingly well for the Cheetahs. 

Then went to France and got awarded the best player in the league. But then started his shenanigans and poorly informed and decided to retire out of the blue and in the process shooting his friend in the leg. 

Then, the bulls played the Boks with Goosen at 10 and completely dismantled the World Cup winning Boks. That was the best I ever seen him play. He did really well in the URC and the bull were on fire. 

Unfortunately tore his ACL and he has never fully recovered. So now playing at 15 and no more 5g pitches either. 

The  site idiots try to turn around the discussion to Erasmus.   Since their knowledge of rugby is non-existent one must know where they come from.   Theya re experts at spre ading shit on site.        

Erasputin is not a coach. His faithful servant Nienaber is the coach, and Erasputin is a kak praat rugby philosopher with no tangible success to his name. The Karl Marx of rugby. His teams are utter garbage. The Boks of his tenure are the worst setup Bok side in all the years I've been following them, and even many retro Bok teams I've watched. This clown couldn't even look passably good against the worst Aussie and All Black sides of all time! Saddex, you are only making yourself look like an imbecile. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt in assuming it's not so despite your best efforts in making Mrs Searle and Mike look knowledgeable. 

Dave would you say we have the best talent available to any team right now…and if you agree, why has Harrassmiss produced two mediocre 8 wins/5 losses, barely 60% win ratio,  years since the WC?

It’s outrageously bad. And please don’t give me the ‘it’s all Nienaber’s fault’ excuse. Harrassmiss was in total control of every decision, including the appointment of Nienaber. Total authority equals total responsibility.

He was hired to produce results not excuses. Instead he has treated managing the Boks as his personal gratification opportunity, putting his needs ahead of those of the team.

If a CEO told the analysts he missed his targets because his COO screwed up he would rightly be castigated. Same for Harrassmiss…he appointed Nienaber and decided to hide behind the Director of Rugby title.

Besides the Boks did no better when Harrassmiss was present.

The brief 2021 period where Erasputin wasn't "hands-on" remains the period with the best production post-Chicken run. It makes a mockery of this notion that Erasputin has been missed. The man has no ideas, and his biggest gimmicks haven't worked. This is why he hides behind others, to avoid taking major damage when things go wrong. He uses people to boost his profile, and then rides them for what they are worth, carefully keeping the backdoor ajar to save himself with reality hits. Muir did the same thing with Campese at the Sharks, and was exposed when he had to work alone, but did try to out-manoeuvre Snor to salvage some credibility. Erasputin is detestable. 

So here are the tests in 21 and 22. Harrassmiss was banned on Nov 17, and excluded from match day activities till October 2022. And then banned again in 2022 from the Italy and English tests we won

So in 21….his record was 8 wins and 4 losses, he missed the Pom test. In 2022, he was absent for all matches except those against France and Ireland, which we lost.

 That makes his overall record 8 wins and 6 losses……worse than the 16 wins and 10 losses for the Boks overall. And considerably worse than the 8 wins and 4 losses notched up by Nienaber on his own.

There is no credible evidence that we did better with Harrassmiss fully engaged. He has had a mediocre post WC tenure, whichever way you cut it.

Bullshit Rassie took us from 7 to 1, won the RC, the WC and the Lions series

Really? You never lie, eh? Show me when the Boks reached 7th Saddex. You've been corrected in this before, so it shouldn't be difficult. 

Any team that win the World Cup get automatically the number 1 ranking. 

Even though the Boks lost some games leading up to the World Cup, by the end they were number one. Event the All Blacks beat the Boks twice and only lost out to the World Cup due to a French forward pass back in 2007. 

So the World Cup is misleading in term of world rankings. However, Mallet 17 in a row games and I thin Ireland is pushing 13 games in a row now. 

That is to me the true measure. 

The Boks are much better, but I don't think Rassie and Nienaber did the Boks any favours last year. There were at least 3 or 4 games we should have won had it not been for poor selections. 

Janjties coming in cold after only playing 30 min

Starting Dweeb in his first test over Marx because they want to keep the quota selections

Capping Machunu for the Boks against Wales and have about 5 players making their debut. 

Bringing Vermeulen to soon from injury. 

So no, Rassie fucked up last year, so I'm not to happy with what happened. 

Now we have to be stuck with him for the another 3 years and they have also given Stick and Davids 4 year contract extensions until the next World Cup. 

Rassie has feathered his bed, got his cronies in place and probably trying to win back some esteem after his Ref rant blew up in his face. So no other country wants to hire him. 

Nienaber is going form a test team coach to a defence coach at Leinster?!! Not the head coach, already decided way before the outcome of the World Cup. 

These guys are only in it for themselves. 

The Boks were 6th after the loss to New Zealand during the World Cup! I don't like this notion of getting double ranking points. So, due to the double ranking points, and the Boks only having to really beat Japan, an injury hit Wales, and England (the best possible match-up of the NH sides), they were able to go from 6th to 1st. That's quite a leap. Then there's the matter of the chicken run to extend the myth which many people actually believed! Is that truly a reflection of the #1 team? what about ranking points that are consistent with the system used all year round, where location and opposition strength play a factor. If you beat a string of top teams to get to the final, then it will be reflected in the final ranking once the tournament is completed. You can't just throw out double ranking points, it upsets the entire system! It's just common sense, and something I have disagreed with from the beginning. 

Seeing as Saddex is so quiet, the Boks reached 7th after the loss to Wales in 2018! They essentially coasted at 5th until the WC and then reached 6th after the loss to NZ in the pool stages. Then in a few games went to 1st with double ranking points. Saddex would have us believe that Erasputin made the Boks the literal best team in the world. I think that's quite a stretch. Even the win against Wales was a terrible performance, who could forget those classic wonky high balls by Faf? A staple during the World Cup. A game that was dubbed the worst in World Cup history. Around 60% of Bok production in that tournament came from the Canada game alone. I even recall how everyone was afraid of England after that Wales game. We were supposedly going to get obliterated. We win, and then all of that didn't exist. Windgats. 

@Korn: The Boks were very poor last year. Lets be honest, we were lucky to win one test against Wales. The loss was actually our best performance of that series! Against New Zealand in the first test, they carved us up, but were tactically flawed. They attacked from too deep. They corrected that in the second test, and they were comfortably the better side. Australia hammered us in the first test, and were blown off the field in the second test. We were very poor against Italy until Kwagga and Eben broke the game open, especially Kwagga. He fractured that stout Italy defence and they merely gave up after that. England was a no show, and predictably so. So what was it that we should have done better? Ireland and France were far better than us. This has little to do with selections. We got too lucky, and that flattered the final season standing. The win over England seems to erased all that occurred before it. The Boks didn't look good from game one to the final game. No signs of greatness. 

Sorry Saffex but just looking Rassie win Ratio. He hasn’t been able to string more than 5 winning matches in a row. 

I definitely think it is his conservative approach and over emphasis on quota selection 

Let's just unpacked Rassies quota vs merit selection. But I also want to make one thing very clear, I'm still pissed off with him for not selecting Duhan Van der Merwe or Paul Willemse. 

Will just go with his with his regular picks

1. Ox (Kitshoff) -  I think this works really well in terms of transformation but Ox can't play more than 30 min. Kittshoff is a fantastic scrummager but also offer a lot around the park
2. Bongi, Dweeb, Marx - Bongi is our best set piece hooker, Marx has his off days at line out time but he is an extra back row. Bongi is a hard grafter but not better than Marx. Again, Marx can play for 90 min, Bongi can't. Don't get me started on Dweeb, all posture but can't hit the side of the barn
3. Nyakene, Malherbe - I like Treva, but again, Frans might be flabby but the guy can put a solid 65 min and generally really useful around the park in defence. Have some series high tackle stats. 
4. Etzebeth, We simply don't have a replacement for him. Good to see RG is back, but he is more of a 5 lock to me. 
5. Loodt, Mostert, Orie - Both Orie and Mostert are light weight, but Orie shouldn't even be near the team. He is there as a quota. 
6. Kolisi, Kwagga - I have some issues with Kolisi but he does come through, just wish he would put more consistent performances in. It is just that if he plays poorly he doesn't get dropped from the team. However, when Lou was around he would only play for 55 min. Again, doesn't have the engine for or brains for an opensider. Listen to Richi Mcaw, not the fittest player as stated by the all black fitness coach but definitely the smartest player on the field and know where to be at the right time. Don't see Kolisi as the smartest player. Kwagga, impact player, but not a starter. 
7. PSDT - Retreaded Lock, huge fan of him, but his has moments of lapses on defence, but can be devastating in open play but lacks the ball skill of RG. For a big guy he doesn't skittle players back. 
8. Vermeulen, Wiese, Roos - Vermeulen should go and I think we are okay with Wiese and Roos now. 
9. Farf Jantjies, Hendrikse, Williams - Faf can be erratic. Hendrikse looks half asleep and slow. He has the size and skill and reminds of Fourie Du Preez. Janjties is useless, has his moment as an impact players and only looks good for his tries, but his presence around the ruck is poor and so is his passing. Williams has really come into the frame this year with his pace and deadly sniping around the ruck. Passing and kicking looks solid and should replace Jantjies. I would like to have seen more of Zak Burger, best 9 last year in the country but hardly featured for the bulls this season, wonder if has a serious injury. 
10. Pollard, Willemse, Jantjies, Libok. Pollard is still our best 10 and can play for the Boks for another 6 years given his only 28. But been around for ages. If Sexted can do it, so can he. However, Willemse should not be used at 10 as he has been blowing hot and cold. One goal kick to win a match isn't enough, it is the rest of the play. I love his work rate and determination around the park. Very good at 12 with is distribution and probably better than De Allende, but doesn't fit as the tank in the backline. Jantjies, he has had so many opportunities and were never the same since the World Cup year. Libok, didn't like him in the early days, did amazingly last year and deserves his spot, but this year really struggled to play up North. He is only effective in Dry and hard fields. His stepping is nullified in the wet. Still turns the ball over to often in contact. But very lethal, if he can learn how to control the game with the boot in the wet and hold his channel in the wet. 
11. Mpimpi, Moodie, Mpimpi great finisher until he got destroyed in the tackle against Australia. Absolute shocker on defence and goes missing, during the game. Mostly a passenger and probable shouldn't be in the team other than his finishing. Does link up really well with Am. Both player much better together. Moodie, still to young
12. De Allende, Willemse, Esterhuizen - Dud has sucked up all of the minutes in the backline. Esterhuizen should have gotten more game time. Willemse did look good last year at 12 but then Dan Du Plessis was the best player by far this season. De Allende doesn't have. decent long pass on him, often kills any momentum in the backline. Can operate well in the wider channels. 
13. Am, Kriel, De Allende - Am has really made the 13 position his own and is rated as the best 13 right now in the world. But, gone off the boil at the sharks this season, maybe injury, World Cup year. Kriel, hard one for me, he is very athletic, but like dud, very static and robotic. He has excelled in Japan and maybe the pace of the game might have aided him with his ball skills. Dud, been used at 13, nowhere close to Riekie Ioni with his searing pace. To me the 13 should be your fastest and strongest player. Someone that can cut the line and create line breaks for you. 
14. Kolbe, Sbu, Arendase - Kolbe is world class, but can be easily knocked over when defending. But has series grits. When Sbu is on form can be a deadly finisher but his attitude has let him down. Arendse is a Kolbe replacement, little bit lighter but this guy can play. Again, not so effective on wet heavy fields where Kolbe seems to bounce of the deck and use his slip to throw defenders off and still score. 
15. Willie, Willemse, Gelant, Kolbe - 

Since the WC….Boks with Harrassmiss 8 wins/6 losses….Boks with Nienaber 8 wins/4 losses. Those are the facts Dave.

And let’s look at Nienaber’s 4 losses. 

The 26 to 27 narrow loss to England at Twickenham, in the week Harrassmiss was banned and the team obviously not fully focused.

The 12 to 13 loss to Wales with an experimental team showing 14 changes from the team that won the week before.

I put both of those losses on Harrassmiss.

The other two Nienaber losses came against Oz and NZ away. But Nienaber won both the home games and outscored them by 90 points to 78 in the series.

Effectively Nienaber has been 8/2 when given a reasonable chance with a settled team. I would say in the last two years we have been much better off when Harrassmiss was absent.

I think Rassie on the day is a better Tactician and selector than Nienaber. Just remember the fuck ups they made. Let's look at the losses from Laster year

Wales - Completely brand new team, with no synergy. Rassie pre-meditated

New Zealand 2nd Test - We destroyed the all blacks the game before. But then Dweeb got given a start, Vermeulen wasn't match fit and suffered. Ox hardly lasted and our front row imploded, leaving Frans and Kittoff to come on early, the team was gassed around 60 min, the all black gain ascendance as their players were fresher. By the end, our backs were too narrow and loads of gaps were exposed. 

Australia - The guys just didn't show up, got blasted off the ball

Ireland - This was a tough game, some 50 50 calls but the Boks never brought the physicality and lacked a decent game plan on how to beat the Irish. We lost by 3 points. 

France - Another close game, but I think they were trying to play more expansive with having both Kolbe and Arendse on the field. Again, you can maybe get away with one Kolbe size player, but two will give you a headache, especially under the high ball and big forwards running in those wider channels. 

If any team want to get the better of the Boks, they simply just have to put it behind the backline and dominate the breakdown with big forwards. No amount of stepping in the wet will save you

Rassie has his favourites, it was evident during the A team games that were beaten by 2nd string club teams. Some of those players were quality but never got the coaches or strategy. 

Like we saw with Jean Klein from Munster being selected, if you played under Rassie you will have a better chance of becoming a bok. 

That is why the likes of the Du Preez Brothers, Esterhuizen, Duyamani to name a few don't get a sniff