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FORUM / RUGBY /  World Rugby is a Disgrace as an Organisation

World Rugby is a Disgrace as an Organisation

Started by clevermike39 REPLIES872 VIEWS· 11 Feb 2016, 11:03
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Feb 2016, 11:03
#1
11 Feb 2016, 11:03#1
The following from News 24:-
"World Rugby has stated that no action will be taken against the New Zealand sevens team despite them fielding an extra player against Australia in Sydney last weekend.

World Rugby on Thursday concluded its investigation into an alleged breach of Law 3 by the All Blacks Sevens team.


Law 3.2 provides for the sanction of a penalty kick where a team fields more than the maximum number of players. The referee, Craig Joubert, was not aware of the additional New Zealand player on the pitch prior to the conclusion of the match.


“The investigation, undertaken by the designated disciplinary official, has determined that, while New Zealand did field eight players, it was an inadvertent breach as a consequence of a number of factors relating to the management of replacements involving a number of parties,” World Rugby said via a press statement.


“World Rugby’s misconduct process caters for unsporting actions, cheating and ill-discipline (amongst other behaviours) which are at a level that bring or have the potential to bring the game into disrepute. Having fully investigated the incident, the designated disciplinary officer has concluded that the laying of a misconduct charge is not appropriate or warranted given the circumstances as the threshold had not, in his determination, been met.


“While such incidents are rare, World Rugby is committed to ensuring that there is no such repetition on the series and will ensure that all teams and officials pay particular attention to the process of replacement management.”


While they had eight players on the field, the Kiwis scored a late try to sneak a 17-all draw.

New Zealand went on to win the Sydney Sevens after scoring another stoppage-time try in the final against Australia. "


This is an absolute disgrace.   It gives the NZ team the right to go on cheating and then plead "inadvertant breach" - which incidentally applies to NZ only  - since it happened before and no action was in fact taken.   It allows the freedom to NZ to keep on fielding 8 players and when caught out - plead it was a mistake made, but not intended.  


I think what was done in this case was a sad day for international rugby management - which the organisation will regret in years to come.  

MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
11 Feb 2016, 11:14
#2
11 Feb 2016, 11:14#2
 Hear, hear! The only logical outcome in my mind. Go you Mighty ABs! (7s & 15s)
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Feb 2016, 11:22
#3
11 Feb 2016, 11:22#3
 To crook in games the only logical option?   Are you not ashamed that you support the enhancement of crooking in sport? 
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
11 Feb 2016, 12:08
#4
11 Feb 2016, 12:08#4
Yeah Mike
Like that will ever be an issue with a NZ supporter
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
11 Feb 2016, 12:08
#5
11 Feb 2016, 12:08#5
 it was an inadvertent breach as a consequence of - the kbbs not being able to count to 7.Mike the kiwis are as bent as it comes and the IRB needs to take action.
Notice how mooooo la la shows a pathological lack of conscience. Craig has a great chance of being voted nz ref of the year.  Best he immigrates to nz and has done.
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
11 Feb 2016, 13:31
#6
11 Feb 2016, 13:31#6
 after some months out  I can see that everything continues in the same old way, saffas  whinning and moaning like cry babies. Is it something genetical or you are taught at schools?

That was a completely irrelevant play and match. Both teams were already classified and the outcome only decided which way each team had to take to reach the finals. The winner had a more dificult one having to play against USA and Fiji (instead of England and an injury plagued SA) and this is why the aussies didn't make any oficial complaint.

Once there wasn't any complaint the WR can only apply the law, which is the same for everybody. Exactly the same would have happen to SA or to Costa Rica or whoever.
Or do you want the WR to make special laws for the All Blacks? what about punishing them for life for an insignificance like that? the AB couldn't play any more sevens, that would be fine for you, uh?

It's incredible how you can manipulate to make such an irrelevant issue something transcendental for the sake of continuing your non-stop crying and whining. You are world champions in it.
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
11 Feb 2016, 14:25
#7
11 Feb 2016, 14:25#7
ABasquefan..... Do you think this is a good precedent to set by World R ugby, given that there was no sanction at all?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Feb 2016, 14:27
#8
11 Feb 2016, 14:27#8
 ABF
Welcome back.  I do not want to see any change to the laws - I want to see equal treatment in complying with the laws.   Since this happened before involving the AB's it is clear it may be not entirely accidental and not intentional.  This ty pe of thing requires action - not a whitewash.
Nobody would tell me Tietjens did not know an extra player was missing from the bench and on the field of play.  That makes it cheating and he should have been punished.       
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
11 Feb 2016, 15:08
#9
11 Feb 2016, 15:08#9
 @DA,
the only thing WR has done is to apply the law and yes, to apply the law the same way to every team  is a good precedent.
Another question is to discuss if the law should be changed or not,.... but before this discussion all this stuff about the AB cheating, the refs, etc. should be put aside

@mike,

"I want to see equal treatment in complying with the laws"

then I don't know what you are crying about, what WR has done is to apply the law as it's written.

Do you really think that Tjetens was going to cheat in a completely irrelevant game? what for? it has no sense at all, he would be a complete fool if he made such a stupid thing,...
To think that Tjetens cheated because once the AB played with one more man has no sense either. As all this raving about the bench has no sense at all. They were just some seconds at the end of a disputed match where everybody is nervous. Do you think that Tjetens in those last seconds of the match was going to waste his time counting how many players were on the bench or would he be watching the field and how the match ended?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Feb 2016, 20:12
#10
11 Feb 2016, 20:12#10
 ABF
With respect - I beg to differ from you about the game.  It was an important game because it would impact on the team the AB's had to play in the next round. It could make for a more difficult route to the final.   The previous time it happened was in the Las Vegas final - when the AB's was also behind in points.  
Tietjens organised the replacement of players and he knew perfectly well that he  sent in three players and withdrew two players from the field of play.   If he did not know how to count to three he should not be the coach.   I am sorry - but to be caught out twice for doing exactly the same thing under exactly the same circumstances and both times claim it was not intended is not acceptable.  
It leaves a bad taste in the mouth of people and the result is that he is accused widely by commentators on the social media of being a crook.   Not nice to read that type of thing about anybody.   It is also unacceptable to other competing nations - SA was not involved in this case - so what must those other countries think about that type of thing where they may feel that there is one set of laws for them and a different set of laws for the AB's.  

MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
11 Feb 2016, 20:38
#11
11 Feb 2016, 20:38#11
 Mike, 2008 the Sharks had 16 men on the paddock vs the Reds and there was no penalty imposed. Pot, kettle, black??Fall off that high horse you sanctimonious (look it up) twat....
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Feb 2016, 21:17
#12
11 Feb 2016, 21:17#12
 If the Sharks were not punished it was wrong - and two wrongs does not make a right. I for one would have condemned inaction then as much as I  do it now - but at that stage I was not active on any rugby forum.  Let me be blunt I will never defend incompetence or illegal action whenever it comes to the fore.
I am always one of the worst critics of SA Rugby and cricket on this site - but it seems to me when I write something involving NZ rugby I am wrong.   Sorry - but when something is wrong in SA or anywhere else I would always be dead honest and do and write what I think is the honest and right thing.          
BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
11 Feb 2016, 21:31
#13
11 Feb 2016, 21:31#13

 ...not so clever mike what we should be more concerned about is poor Craig Joubert ...how many times has he been headlining the news lately for all the wrong reasons ???...not a good look mate..


...people are starting to talk about how South African referees are starting to look like incompetent fools on the world stage -although you and I have known for some time this is in actual fact the case....perhaps some electric shock therapy for the dopey South African refs might help... 



 


sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,275 posts
11 Feb 2016, 22:25
#14
11 Feb 2016, 22:25#14
It's a disgrace, and all the Sheep in New Zealand should be banned from leaving the paddock 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Feb 2016, 06:32
#15
12 Feb 2016, 06:32#15
 Brycy
The history of NZ referees are a disaster as well.  The father of Bryce Lawrence sent a e-mail to referees to punish the SA teams they ref - but was so dumb that he sent a copy to the head of SA referees at the time as well.   Scandal because of Lawrence.
Then there was Bryce himself - a total incompetent who was rewarded by BZ as the referee of the year and the total crook Paddy O'Brien - the most dishonest referee ever.   However - like father like son.
The problem is that SA referees from time to time make mistakes and they admit it when they did - New Zealand referees constantly make blunders and they get rewarded for it.
NZ referees are bad news - and that is a fact as well.        
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
12 Feb 2016, 08:39
#16
12 Feb 2016, 08:39#16
What on earth could World Rugby have done in this instance? Replay the entire tournament? Huh? Strip New Zealand of the title and tell the spectators that they spent their money on a sham?

I'm seeing a lot of grumbling but no-one is putting up any suggestions as to what World Rugby could have done in this case.

Fact is, it was the fault of the officials. If there are any penalties or sanctions to be applied then they should be applied to Craig Joubert and his fellow match officials.

Please can we South African posters stop bleating like a bunch of little crybabies every time a New Zealand side wins something?
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
12 Feb 2016, 08:46
#17
12 Feb 2016, 08:46#17
Ab ass returns and alas blunders immediately. Why not own up for once and admit you were at fault."but it seems to me when I write something involving NZ rugby I am wrong". Mike I am afraid getting the kiwis to face the truth about themselves is a very difficult task but we must persevere for their sakes.
Meanwhile a little ban of their refs and pla yers would encourage them in the right direction. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Feb 2016, 09:03
#18
12 Feb 2016, 09:03#18
 Rooinek 
I was absolutely clear on what should be done.  Fine the team and/or the coach and deduct a percentage of points earned by the team for the tournament in this case.  Not replay the tournament at all.  WR has the legal right to do what I suggested above.
I think the referees should also be reprimanded.   This happened - as in Las Vegas - when players were replaced.  In the case the Las Vegas case the ref was more alert and when the SA players pointed the problem out to him - he counted the players and ordered the extra AB player off the field.  The excuse of Joubert and the assistants involved could be that they trust the team officials and did not take a count before the game resumed.  But that to my mind is a lame excuse - especially since it happened before in a game involving the AB's.   Trust should be earned - not exploited.   A letter of reprimand should have been sent to each of the ref personnel involved as well.    
I am saying that what happened should just not be ignored and nothing done. 
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
12 Feb 2016, 09:09
#19
12 Feb 2016, 09:09#19
Where did you say that, ou Maaik? All I see on this thread is you complaining that they cheated and all NZ refs are incompetent and dishonest.
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
12 Feb 2016, 09:33
#20
12 Feb 2016, 09:33#20
Well the NZ management team on the sideline would have been aware that there were eight players on the field . Surely ?
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
12 Feb 2016, 09:42
#21
12 Feb 2016, 09:42#21
Why "surely", Blob? Why does it have to be on purpose? Why are you (and others) so convinced it wasn't just an innocent mistake?
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
12 Feb 2016, 10:06
#22
12 Feb 2016, 10:06#22
 Rooi, when the player comes off he normally receives a handshake or a pat on the back or bum & takes his seat on the bench. That seat was empty . Are you sure that they were unaware of the error (that can probably be blamed on the match officials) ?  I'm don't believe that the kiwis cheated but there's no evidence  of them attempting to correct the stuff-up either . Maybe they thought, "hey, its not our fault lets enjoy the advantage while it lasts" .
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Feb 2016, 10:15
#23
12 Feb 2016, 10:15#23
 Rooinek 
If the same thing  did not happen twice within two years involving the same team - I would readily accept it was an honest mistake - but a repeat of the same offence - especially when the AB's was behind in the point count - raises serious question marks with me about the question of honesty.  .  
Mistake or not - mistakes should be penalized - not white-washed,    
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
12 Feb 2016, 10:15
#24
12 Feb 2016, 10:15#24
blobbok
 
Status: Bok regular 
Posts: 1404RE: World Rugby is a Disgrace as an Organisation 
February 12, 2016, 09:33:06

Well the NZ management team on the sideline would have been aware that there were eight players on the field . Surely ? 


Exactly what I said Blob
And no, I am not saying it was deliberate, but two times already?
My issue is that the ref and match officials are getting the blame, when the team management should accept full liability for this

AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
12 Feb 2016, 13:23
#25
12 Feb 2016, 13:23#25
 What a bunch of cry-babies!!!!!!

The match was completely irrelevant, both teams were already classified,.... so why the hell was Tjetens, or anyone else, going to want to cheat or even think about cheating?
the only thing the winner of the match could achieve was a harder way to the finals so, again, why was anyone going to cheat?

"The likeliest scenario and one that has probably happened many times unnoticed, is confusion with the rolling subs process. In the heat of battle it must be a very hard thing to manage. Players coming and going, injured players waiting to be helped off, players dragging themselves off the park... But no, South Africans want a conspiracy. The race is on to see who can come up with the most bizarre theory." (taken from a comment on the net)

And, mike, the law, as you also posted it, clearly says:

Law 3.2 TEAM WITH MORE THAN THE PERMITTED NUMBER OF PLAYERS
Objection: at any time before or during a match a team may make an objection to the referee about the number of players in their opponents’ team. As soon as the referee knows that a team has too many players, the referee must order the captain of that team to reduce the number appropriately. The score at the time of the objection remains unaltered.
Sanction: Penalty at the place where the game would restart.

A penalty, that's all what the law contemplates for these cases but you are demanding to "Fine the team and/or the coach and deduct a percentage of points earned by the team for the tournament"?
didn't you say that you didn't want special laws for the AB but "equal treatment in complying with the laws"?



CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Feb 2016, 13:45
#26
12 Feb 2016, 13:45#26
 ABF
Sorry what I said should happen to the AB's would also be applicable to other teams - even though as far as is known the AB's  is the only team who had 8 players on the field of play in two matches thus far.  If any country do the same - the same penalties should apply.
I am sorry - but I believe one mistake is OK - two is one too many and there should be something constructive done to teach the team management a lesson.   
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
12 Feb 2016, 14:27
#27
12 Feb 2016, 14:27#27
Yeah AB
Two times, same team, and in all the other games, no other team has ever done this before, not even once?
Coincidence.........
If that was SA the cheating word would be thrown to all corners of the globe, but because it's the mighty All Blacks, it gets sugar coated.
I am not saying at all that the All Blacks cheated, because I don't believe that at all, I am just sick and tired of transgressions by ANY team, ref or official being overlooked or no proper sanction being dished out
For instance, "Mr coach, this is the second time your team has committed this same offense, should this offense happen again..... blah blah blah.
I am talking re-offending teams.
Look at cricket.... slow over rates... captain gets fined.... if it happens a 2nd time he is fined 40% of his match fee and gets a one match ban.....etc etc
Something along those lines
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,275 posts
12 Feb 2016, 14:45
#28
12 Feb 2016, 14:45#28
Liam Messam could murder someone on the field and he would be let off due to his exemplary record.
The only reason he has an exemplary record is because he allways gets let off because of it. 
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
12 Feb 2016, 14:54
#29
12 Feb 2016, 14:54#29
Lol Sb
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
12 Feb 2016, 16:49
#30
12 Feb 2016, 16:49#30
 So Basque, something should only be done if it's a crucial match? There isn't a proper sanction for this offence because it seems only the Alblacks manage to actually manage to break this particular law. Rather embarrassing methinks. 
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
12 Feb 2016, 21:34
#31
12 Feb 2016, 21:34#31
 Nothing embarrassing at all about it Draad. Who was it standing on the victory dais at the end of the tournament again??
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
12 Feb 2016, 21:41
#32
12 Feb 2016, 21:41#32
 Well, mooolaaa, at least the loosers can count to 7 and beyond. How do you feel about NZ being the only team to get it wrong...twice?   LMFAO!
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
12 Feb 2016, 22:32
#33
12 Feb 2016, 22:32#33
Probably not cheating, the sideline official controls the comings & goings........ but I've two words for their actions, ruthless & devious .

What other team could get away with picking up & dropping the opposing captain ( O'Driscoll) on his head ? 
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
12 Feb 2016, 23:34
#34
12 Feb 2016, 23:34#34
Our good ol' mate Bakkies might have tried a few such things in his time - but he always did it with a smile I'll give him that
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
12 Feb 2016, 23:54
#35
12 Feb 2016, 23:54#35
 Ja Bakkies did the crime but did the time
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
13 Feb 2016, 01:18
#36
13 Feb 2016, 01:18#36
 How many times have you misspelt "losers" Draad? Bet it's more than twice....
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
13 Feb 2016, 01:42
#37
13 Feb 2016, 01:42#37
 Kiwis are never wrong and they become indignant when criticized. I'm stil l trying to get over Bryce Lawrence, perhaps he wasn't a cheat, perhaps he just hated South Africans but what I do know is that he was inept....an incompetent.....I know, I was right there in the Cake Tin on that miserable day.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
13 Feb 2016, 12:28
#38
13 Feb 2016, 12:28#38
 Moola, spelling is not my forte. I do try to get it right and I do know the difference between lose and loose, and although I got the spelling wrong this time, I get it right more often than not. I recall Rooi pointing it out to me too. To top it all, English is my second language....How's your spelling for your second lingo?
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
13 Feb 2016, 21:43
#39
13 Feb 2016, 21:43#39
 Good, eh Bro!!
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
14 Feb 2016, 01:37
#40
14 Feb 2016, 01:37#40
 Whatever...sure you feel better about yourself. 
— END OF THREAD —

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