15 Willemse
14 Kolbe
13 Suaalii
12 Esterhozen
11 Jordan
10 Sacha
9 du Pont
1 Ox
2 Marx
3 Clarkson
4 Etzebeth
5 Snyman
6 Savea
7 Du Toit
8 Alldritt
‘By my count that’s a team comprised of 9 Springboks. We have by far the best rugby depth in the game. We should be winning massively….as we have in the last 2 games when the team was finally allowed to play rugby,
Clarkson bwaaahaaaa
Your team is a laugh and there are so many close calls proving just how close the sides are
Clarkson destroyed the Bools pack in the URC final, He was more dominant than Wilco on the day….but go ahead choose your team once you stop laughing.
Clarkson is not even close to being the best tighthead in the game.
Wilco with his hands tied is better as are Furlong, Stuart, Lomax, Toupau
Fucking hell
The worlds best side does not define anything for chances are many pundits would choose different players
There is no ways Esterhuizen is the best 12 for instance
More to the point - each player challenging for a spot will be pretty close to his competitor
No one player stands out a mile
All the top teams are close reflected in the fact the Boks have just lost to NZ and Oz not to mention Ireland
Who is better than Esterhozen? The teams aren’t close….we have no competitors at lock or front row….it must be Love.
Esterhuizen has been the most complete inside centre in world rugby for close to a decade, dominant in the gain line, defensively rock-solid, with the tactical kicking and distribution to balance his physicality. Had we appointed more than a scarecrow in 2018, he would have been the undisputed incumbent ever since. Instead, that 2018 season - inferior in quality to what preceded it - planted a rot in expectations that still lingers. Erasmus has never been able to identify or back genuine talent. He operates as if allergic to creativity and innovation, which is why the Springboks under him have rarely produced cutting-edge play in what is already a mediocre era of Test rugby. He showed us exactly who he was back in 2011 during his first crack at the World Cup, and nothing has changed since.
Esterhuizen this year played in one test at inside center and was droppecd after that test where he played enough rugby to be regarded on the dayas being good enough. In an explanation by Erasmus and Kolisi Sacha flourish when he has De Allende as his partner because he new instrictively that De Allende is vey successful and less so when his partner is any of the other Springbok options and I believe them rather than you lot, because Pollard made a similar statement saying De Allende is the best inside center he ever played with,
At the same time the real coach is in fact Erasmus and the role play in deeloping a more attacking team is to use the lossies to create space for the backline players to draw defenders and reate place for overlaps and gaps in defense - a very important role for loosies. So when Du Toit stays wide when the Sprinhgboks have possession and. that led to idiocy on site when people use idiocy and asked why Du Toit is standing at wing on ste. As such he helped in Kwaggas try and yetrerday he was on hand for Hooker to off-load the ball to Du Toit to score his forst try yesterday.
The problem with the team in the testin Aukland was the situation as to the scryummie and Pollard and Willie started the loss very early in the match, I think that would be the last test he played for the Springboks, Erasmus maks mistakes and one of thoe is that he prefer players he trust far too long in playing positions, One of those are Pollard and the problem is Pollard - never a speed mechant - is often a problem in decsionmaking and slow in execution. In the last two tests Pollard was not playing and the backline performances improved massively. Sad to say Pollard will not make the 2027 WC.
In that regard when playing in Fance Pollard was luke warm and his club released him to play for Leicester - a sure sign they found him unft to play in the French where the flyhalfs are part of their backline attacking systems. Infact this upcoming URC season Pollard will play for the Bulls and we will much more info to assess him in that role, I have never been a Libbok admirer - but after the last two tests found under Browne instruction his math play improved massively, Maybe he should play at full back ie happened when he replaced Willemse yesterday.
I agree Esterhuizen is not even close to be the top 12 in South Africa and never even a mile away from being he best inside center in world rugby. There is a dozen centers in Ireland, France and Englamd better than he is. As to Hooker I was impressed in his last two tests playing at wiing, That is where he belongs and not at 12 where his talent and pace woud be wasted.
It weould be interesting to see the teams elected for London - which could be a mudbath on Satiday. According t teh weather forecast rain is expected in London on Froday and Saturday and the team selection will take t hat into account, There is anther issue - most top Argentine players play their Club rugbny in France and some eve in the URC and they are used to playing in wet conditions.
We will see a lot of URC players in the present season and hopefully learn from that situation.
.
Sure, Du Toit and the loosies running wide can open overlaps. But if your attack relies on forwards in the tramlines to compensate for a midfield that can’t create, you don’t have innovation, you have a patch job. That’s why the Bok backline in the Erasmus era has looked blunt compared to the best in France, Ireland, or even Scotland. de Allende remains a mere body in a jersey.
I would hve welcomed ou back as a site contributor - but the garbage you used to spread on site is now back with a vengeance and your BS is still the same a it was in the past, Is this your 13 or 14th user name you iused to write under after mega garbage you fed from he site in disgrace, Rooinek gave at least 10 user names you ised in the past and he would know how many cases of BS you spread on site using dfferent user names you used over the past 15 years.
de Allende, Willemse, Jordie Barrett, the Italian 12 are better than AE
Mike, when you’ve got to reach for username conspiracies instead of rugby, it’s obvious you’ve run out of argument. Let’s get back to the game...
On rugby: Esterhuizen is playing the most complete 12 rugby of his career - consistently dominant in the Premiership and Champions Cup, with gain-line success, distribution, and defensive leadership that De Allende simply doesn’t match anymore. To pretend there are ‘a dozen’ better centres is just lazy exaggeration - at best you can name three or four worldwide, and none of them combine physicality, organisation, and tactical kicking the way he does.
De Allende’s job alongside Sacha was to steady the ship - communicate, run decoy lines, organise the defence. Instead, he left a 20-year-old exposed to traffic. Praising him is sentiment, not technical evidence.
And no, relying on Du Toit standing in the tramlines to create overlaps is not cutting-edge rugby , it’s a patch for a blunt backline. That’s why the Boks have leaned on forward dominance instead of evolving their midfield.
Bottom line: Erasmus has consistently trusted loyalty over talent identification. Esterhuizen is still the most complete 12 South Africa refuses to back, and De Allende is coasting on reputation built on nothing rather than output.
Dave says five other teams have equivalent talent, but wants to swop Clarkson for Wilco which gives us 10 players in the World team. That’s Dave logic.
We should be winning massively….as we have in the last 2 games when the team was finally allowed to play rugby,
Oh Dearie Dearie me.......what's happened to your stock call after every Bok loss....you know that one about the Boks should go back to playing to their strengths which is "traditional rugby'?
And OBTW do you still want Manie kicked off the squad?
But we are playing to our traditional strengths., Our scrums are dominating, we have fixed some lineout glitches. And we are dominating the mauls. The problem is we weren’t using the good ball, simply launching box kick after box kick.
Sport is competitive and you have to keep getting better, The answer there was to improve our forward running game….done with the addition of Wiese. And then to improve the creativeness of our centers. Esterhozen showed the way, but with the re-emergence of Dud Allende it all fell to Sacha. But as I predicted he is a mega talent.
So now you are schooled. Do you understand or is there something I can explain.
And yes, Manie would be nowhere near my squad, having failed in the URC and the WC, As soon as he is put under pressure he will fail again. You do understand the difference between looking good in a team that’s dominating as we were in the last 20 minutes….or creating that dominance, which Sacha did in the first 60 minutes?
Swopping Sacha to fullback to accommodate Manie is lunacy. If we keep doing that chances are he’ll get injured taking high balls.
Oh rubbish, the Boks always rely on their set pieces(traditional strengths), that's all they ever did, when it fails their game falls apart .....other than the rolling maul there never ever was a different or better strategy. Add the box kick and their attack was complete.
You always just mentioned going to their traditional strengths after a loss as a solution as was the case against Australia.
We also witnessed a well prepared AB side strip 'traditional strengths' to a tearful shame as we have on numerous other occasions.
It is your stock standard answer after every Bok loss, never once have you made mention of an attacking strategy.
And oh, I'm not the first to pop the question, Mike has repeatedly asked you as well.
Apologies for stripping down your BS.
As I recall, what myself, Moz and numerous others have been calling for since just about the dawn of time is for the Boks to compound forward dominance through effective use of the backs.
And those calls are all here in number, in black and white and stretching over a long period of time.
Heavens knows what you're on about, Denise.
Esterhuizen showed the way?
Doing what exactly?
Its astounding that you miss the fact that it was Willemse that showed the way - it certainly was not Esterhuizen, who did nothing different to DA
Hysteria is a low IQ fellow trying to apply woke debating tactics to a topic he just doesn’t get. And a liar….he says I never once mentioned attacking strategy.
MozartHall Of Famer
46,672 posts
Aug 25, 2025, 15:10
….it doesn’t exist. We have developed no new backline skills under this former AB. We still can’t construct a double wing attack….have a wrap around runner…..offload in a backline tackle…..use the blindside wing to create an overlap…use the skip pass at the right time….get our backs to run a line at speed (the Bargies do it better than us).
Get somebody else who is up to date or if this is all Dr Lucky refusing to change tactics, just admit we are a defense/turnover team (except our two incumbent flanks can’t make a turnover).
It’s still turnover ball not Brown ball
………
MozartHall Of Famer
46,672 posts
Aug 25, 2025, 22:53
Every time we disagree Dave, you claim I have some dark agenda. All that happened in the first 20 minutes was Oz wasn’t at the intensity level they should have been. They missed some tackles and we were all over them. But nothing in all that was particularly sophisticated…it was intense and enjoyable, but nothing new.
The way we played against England in the 2019 WC was more sophisticated….that Am offload for the Mapimpi try, the Kolbe bamboozling of Farrell…..every bit as good.
‘’The idea we have never played sophisticated rugby is nonsense..Go back and look at the try Habana scored against the ABs in 2013, with the brilliant Vermeulen offload in the 13 channel.
Brown has taught us nothing…..the Bargies handling and backline structures are far more advanced. Hell at times all our URC teams looked terrific.
……..
Just two recent examples Hysteria…..I have constantly been saying since RWC 2019 that the way forward is never to lose our basics, they are the platform….but if we want to be a great team we have to evolve our attacking game,
Uh-oh noted your underpants is in full voice. Bwhahahaha.
And BTW 'Brown Ball' as you call is a monumental success.
What you noted was your claim was a lie…..and there is no Brown ball. There is Sacha, Kolbe and Willemse ball, available to us any time the team decided to give up automatic box kicking. Use what little grey matter you have.
Brown ball is slightly visible in the tries scored through the forwards offloading.
But individual brilliance is what is creating most of our tries. Off the top of my head, at least 4 tries from this past weekend came from individual brilliance. Basically all Sacha's scores plus the one he made for Kolbe. The try Hooker made for PSDT was plain rugby.
In the end, with the players we have, Rassie just needs to get out the way and let them dominate.
Let's remember that up to the Eden Park game, Rassie had no idea what his best side was.
His best side emerged when his back was to the wall, and he gambled on what everybody else knows the best players are. According to them, he told them to go and out and express themselves. And they did, and the rest is history.
You simply don't need to micromanage Kolbe, Sacha, Willemse, AE, Moodie, Hooker. They're all better players than Rassie ever was. So are Eben, Rg, Wilco, Ox, Marx, Wiese.
The coach just needs to get out of their way and let them win.
The forwards offloading is different. But the same forwards are offloading for their club teams. I would describe it as being allowed to do what they are capable of, rather than learning a new skill. Recall the Vermeulen offload that got us into the WC semi in 2015 or the same players offload to Habana against NZ in that epic test in 2013.
I’m waiting to see more sophisticated backline structures….set plays beyond the open side cross kick…centers combining to break the defensive line. We have seen zero of that.
’As you say Plum, so far it’s individual brilliance.
Brown ball is obvious for those who know a bit about the game
Describe it.
Keeping the ball in hand more, attacking out wide more, passing more than they used to, less kicking other than the increase in the kick pass
The intention is to stretch defences, seek space, less crash ball, less phase ball set up in the narrow channels
Forwards being used in attack in the wider channels - Kolisi and PSDT.
More offloads keeping the attack alive instead of phase set ups
Definite change in mindset to attack off turnover ball
Players encouraged to express themselves like Willemse, Sacha and Libbok
More tries scored per season than pre Brown ball
More clean breaks and metres gained - Boks topped this stat in the RC
Best gain line success and metres gained per carry
Its pretty obvious there has been a shift
We play to our strengths but we are also attacking more than we used to
Kicking less…accepted__but is it a skill, or just something you decide to do.
Stretch defenses…crash less. If that’s your intention how can you choose Dud. This describes Sacha not Brown ball
Forwards being used in wider channels. This is not new Dud Toit was being used that way in 2019, and for every success there is screw up.
More offloads….,yes it seems to have been taken off the forbidden list….but that’s hardly a new skill
Attack off turnover ball…we always did that
Players being encouraged to express themselves….again, just a removal of a restriction, not a new skill
More tries per season….certainly we have had 2 blow out wins.
More clean breaks….again the result of dominating the last 2 matches
It is clear there has been a shift…..yes in the last 2 games, not in the deciding Oz test and the first NZ test.
….
Yes in the last 2 matches we have attacked more and in the Aussie first match for 20 minutes. But these are not new skills, they are a change in attitude we could have executed without Brown. What we are looking for are new more sophisticated tactics
A few simple things….center play that creates opportunities….sophisticated back line structures, the double wing Oz uses. Right now we are more open to attacking play….but so far everything comes from Sacha, Kolbe and Willemse, from their individual brilliance.
I see a willingness to attack more, at least while we are winning, but I see no new skills beyond the individual contributions of new players.
So far Brown ball is Sacha/Willemse/Kolbe ball. As I said a while ago we can’t change tactics without changing players. Hanging on to Dud suggests this is still not a full commitment.
It’s not about learning new skills, these guys are pro players, it’s about changing the way we play
Before it was sticking to our strengths which revolved around power play, set phase set ups and kicking more
Brown has been brought in to change our style, not in some drastic way.
PSDT might have been out wide on the odd occasion back then but certainly not as much as he is now. Back then it was incidental now it’s clearly part of the pattern
And no it’s not just from Sacha etc the whole side is involved- in the last test we saw a back of the hand offload from Wiese - something you never saw in the past.
And yes we resorted back to our old ways against Oz in that must win game as that was back to familiarity, our default.
Change takes time and clearly part of that change is Brown wanting more creative and attack minded players involved in the backs - hence the recent move away from Pollard / de Allende and Kriel
Had Fassi not been injured we would not have seen DA at 12
Brown ball is not about new skills it’s about a more attacking mindset and it’s very obvious to see