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World starting 15

Started by Mozart77 REPLIES2,264 VIEWS· 17 Dec 2019, 19:06
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Dec 2019, 01:47
#41
19 Dec 2019, 01:47#41

That's the problem, in tractor mode he can continue to move forward until a scrum forms around him. None of these slow motion 'runs' ever amount to anything.


As for offloads he never offloaded once against Japan, Wales and England. Hell against Wales he got the ball 12 times and passed once!


The man is a cul de sac. 


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
19 Dec 2019, 02:42
#42
19 Dec 2019, 02:42#42
Bullshit those carries give the Boks front foot ball, setting up phases, drawing defenders in. He gives the side momentum, more so than any other 12 right now. 12’s operate in traffic and he does it so well. Think of how little Farrell had to offer at 12 or SBW or Crotty or Parkes when compared to DA No 12 spends the game beating defenders left right and centre or operating in volumes of space Moz you still judge modern centres on how the game was played 10 years ago
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,246 posts
19 Dec 2019, 02:46
#43
19 Dec 2019, 02:46#43

Now that Delande's defence has improved it might be worth giving him a few games at outside centre. He used to play on the wing so he has the pace for outside centre. He could be even more dangerous ball in hand on the attack. 

Frans Steyn at 12 with Delande at 13 could be pretty devastating, albeit Steyn is on his last legs. 



SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
19 Dec 2019, 02:53
#44
19 Dec 2019, 02:53#44
Geez fuck me useless Frans at 12 - ouch
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
19 Dec 2019, 08:21
#45
19 Dec 2019, 08:21#45
Once again Stupid ol Dave sees a step off the left where there wasn't one.
We've heard all this before. Many times. Conjured nonsense. Fabricated brilliance where the rest of us see incompetence. He went on and on about the brilliance of JJ (best since Gerber) ... and don't forget what a world beater Elton Jantjies was ... errr ... is.
Never ending nonsense.  That's Stupid Dave for you.

Top inside centers have a tendency of scoring a lot of tries. Ma'a Nonu scored 31 in his career ... Jean De Villiers scored 27.

De Allende has managed to cross the line 6 times in 6 years and most came as a result of receiving a last minute pass 5m from the line. That's an average of 1 test try a year. Not exactly blowing my skirt up ... but according to Stupid Dave and Mike the Moron, that has the makings of a Bok legend.
Then there's De Allende's defense. Who can ever forget how he was made a fool of by Brown 10m from the line. It was a superb example of how not to defend ... how not to tackle.
I know of a school that uses that footage to teach it's students how not to tackle an opponent.

The man just doesn't have enough brain power to be a success story on the test pitch.
He is big and strong ... a crashballer ... with no distribution skills ... doesn't even have the basics down on how to tackle ... and can't run a defensive back line to save his life.

To make things worse, he can't create anything for his outside man. Simply doesn't have the imagination, the skill nor the brain to be anything other than a dumb crashballer.



 

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
19 Dec 2019, 08:26
#46
19 Dec 2019, 08:26#46

Ok Mike ... so now that you've been shown that the nonsense you were spouting regarding Savea was factually incorrect ... can we expect an apology and a promise that you'll at least try to pull your head out your arse?



CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Dec 2019, 10:01
#47
19 Dec 2019, 10:01#47

CC

One game does not change a year of test selections stooge,    Especially after Hansen admitted that he made a mistake by selecting Barrett as a blindside flank,   How would you like your eggs - fried, omelet style or scrambled?

Mozart 

By the way - I pointed out Kerevi's defense deficiencies and Mozart ignored it totally because it was factual.   So here we have a real powerful tractor in Kerevi, with two missing tyres caused by defense deficiency.   That is why Mozart is always under an egg mountain and it is getting worse by the day.

Why not defend the defense record of Kerevi dimness or are you too stupid to recognize a real deficiency in a player you punted for the past two years?        

        

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
19 Dec 2019, 11:47
#48
19 Dec 2019, 11:47#48
Cunt stop lying - do you think by lying your pathetic little effort will carry more weight huh? This obsession of yours with a step off the left. We know you know fuck all about the game is this a phrase you googled and now use to somehow create the impression you know what you are talking about huh? Fucking lying prick The rest of you see incompetence who the fuck are the test of you? Would that be the ones who chose him as the 12 of the WC or making the list of the top 50 players in the game Listen dumbass you are the idiot who is being exposed for knowing fuck all given how highly DA is regarded by most. It hardly comes as a shock now does it - Boshoff at 10 I kid you not - case well and truly closed Stick to telling us how much you hate black people that’s your strength
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
19 Dec 2019, 12:00
#49
19 Dec 2019, 12:00#49

Moron Mike ... we aren't talking about Barrett now are we?

Ardie Savea ... remember? You claimed he was a blindside flank. I corrected you.

Now ... about that apology ... and the promise. Can I expect it soon?



SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
19 Dec 2019, 12:16
#50
19 Dec 2019, 12:16#50
The game has changed since 2011 and centres are no longer major try scorers, especially inside centres. 
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
19 Dec 2019, 12:23
#51
19 Dec 2019, 12:23#51

Whatever do you mean, Stupid? Where did I lie?

Did you not go on and on about JJ being the best?

How about Jantjies? Wasn't he the greatest 10 to ever don the Bok jersey? You told us of the wondrous work he did on the pitch ... didn't you?

Could have sworn it was you, Stupid!!

I know that lying in front of a judge is how you earn your wage. It's become a way of life for you now ... and I can understand that it was inevitable that all the lies you spout everyday would seep into your private life.

With all that practice, one would have thought that you'd at least be a little better at it.
Seems you can't even get that right.
 


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
19 Dec 2019, 12:55
#52
19 Dec 2019, 12:55#52
You lied about me saying that DA stepped off his left foot you stupid prick I said when JJ was on fire that year which he was - that he could be the best 13 we had seen since Gerber, but I was man enough to concede I was wrong you dumbfuck Jantjies was brilliant for the Lions, Pollard was injured Jantjies was the obvious choice at 10 get it dumbfuck At least Jantjies has talent unlike your pathetic Boshoff pick - fucking clueless prick If you knew the game like Shezza points out you would know that the game has changed and modern 12’s don’t score nearly as many as the ones in the past but that fact is beyond your comprehension lying twat. Name a current test 12 scoring bucket loads of test tries - come on dumbfuck step up and name them Your rugby ignorance is a joy keep up the good work
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
19 Dec 2019, 13:27
#53
19 Dec 2019, 13:27#53

Huh??

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaaa!!!

Are you really that slow on the uptake? Is it humanly possible? Are you a retard? Did your mommy drop you on your head?

I never said anything about De Allende and a step. Are you kidding me? You see, Stupid ... that's why I know you as "Stupid".

I'm tempted to explain my comment, but on second thought I doubt it would help.

Oh ... are you suggesting that De Allende has a step? Interesting!!

What's that? You did what? You conceded that you were ... "WRONG" ... well ... I hate to tell you this, dumb ass, but you've never been right. Not in anything. 

"Man enough" ... pffffffffffffhaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahaha!!! You didn't just say that did you?

Listen up, Dickwad ... Jantjies should never have been given a second bite at the cherry. He exposed himself as a jittery chump and even though we all saw what a mess he made, you kept conjuring nonsense, claiming him to have had a brilliant match.

Are you going to be "man" enough now and "concede" that you were "wrong" on this account too? Go on ... haven't you heard ... the truth shall set you free.

Yeah, yeah ... we've all seen the excuses you use to justify your useless favourites ... "it's not the player ... he's a world beater ... a great ... a legend in the making ... it's the friggin game ... it's changing you see".  

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight!!!

Well at least you admitted to De Allende's inability to score tries ... and ... I'm really proud of you Stupid for coming clean that you did in fact say those utterly absurd things about JJ and Jantjies ... and ... in a round about way, that I never lied to you.

Keep it up!!



MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Dec 2019, 17:34
#54
19 Dec 2019, 17:34#54

Kerevi 9 starts in the RC ...3 tries. 

Dud 13 starts in the RC .....1 try.

Dud's 6 tries have been padded by 3 WC tries against weak opposition. He doesn't score tries because he has no vision....a process player.

He was ranked 32nd in Super Rugby 2019 in terms of tries scored.....the only inside centre who played for more than a thousand minutes and didn't score at least 3 tries.


As for centres not scoring tries anymore....nonsense....3 of the top 10 try scorers in Super Rugby were centres. The rest were wings whose tries rely to a large extent on centre play. 

Productive centre play is central to try scoring.....Allende doesn't create or score tries.

SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
19 Dec 2019, 18:25
#55
19 Dec 2019, 18:25#55
Super Rugby isn't test rugby. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Dec 2019, 18:36
#56
19 Dec 2019, 18:36#56
Okay, so what's the theory? What has changed that is unique to centres that makes try scoring less of a factor?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Dec 2019, 19:55
#57
19 Dec 2019, 19:55#57

Mozart

I said nothing about Kerevi's  tries = zilch.  II wrote about his deficient defense - which you in your normal style ignores,   If  De Allende in the 219 season had the defense figures of  Kerevi he would have been out of the SA squad,   

The other problem is that Kerevi is a strong - but very pace-deficient ball carrier and also a layer like Esterhuizen = who for obvious reasons not in the SA squad,  

Nothing has changed at all - tryscoring is a priority - even though you disregarded that when it involves certain SA players,

The other three factors are defense an d linking up with outside backs and other potential ball carriers and ball protection and recovery at breakdowns.

Comments on defense please.          

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Dec 2019, 20:47
#58
19 Dec 2019, 20:47#58

Allende's tackling technique  is still pretty much a high grab. But the Bok system of rushing the first and second receiver has made tackling less onerous at 12....and shifted the defensive decision burden to 13 and the wings. That's why we see the wings shooting in so often.

Certainly Kerevi is regarded as a poor defender but his defensive stats against common opponents England Wales were no worse than Dud's....actually slightly better at 86% vs 84%

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Dec 2019, 20:57
#59
19 Dec 2019, 20:57#59

Mozart

We were not discussing De Allende - you asked a question and I answered the one on Kerevi  and said merely that if De Allende's defense was as bad as that of Kerevi - he would not have been in the SA team.

So forget about De Allende - we all know how warped your myths are  about him,   So Kerevi is an inadequate defender and you admitted it - but still think he is the best center in the world,  LMAO     

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Dec 2019, 21:33
#60
19 Dec 2019, 21:33#60

I asked a question about Schiff?

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
19 Dec 2019, 23:33
#61
19 Dec 2019, 23:33#61
The reason centres score less tries in tests these days is obvious Less space, structured defences In the last 3 years or so you see very few tries from 12’s at test level Kerevi was good this year but DA was better and that is reflected in his international standing Vary similar players in fact Clearly modern day 12’s need to be big and powerful in order to make an impression in traffic
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Dec 2019, 01:07
#62
20 Dec 2019, 01:07#62

So centres need more space than scrummies, flyhalves, wings and fullbacks? If contracting space was an issue one would expect that to effect halfbacks first.

Positions go through cycles. Right now we have poor centres and props.....nobody in the class of O'Driscoll, Jean and Nonu in the centres. No loosehead as potent as Ayerza.

By contrast the locks in particular are stellar.


O Driscoll, Jean and Nonu would still be ringing the cash register. The space argument is balls.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
20 Dec 2019, 01:15
#63
20 Dec 2019, 01:15#63
Bullshit Jean would make far less impression in the modern game especially considering his physicality was middle ground. Nonu was good but not that special O’Driscoll would have suffered under the structured defences of today The game has changed somewhat in the last few years Unless the laws and rules change we won’t see centres ripping through sides like the past, no matter how talented they are. There are more than enough great modern centres about - no better or worse than the Jean era Same applies to props, hell just look how many great props SA has for a start. Look at England’s props - Mako, Marler, Genge, Sinckler, Williams etc
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Dec 2019, 07:04
#64
20 Dec 2019, 07:04#64

Nonsense  Dave .....more of your unsupported assertions. We saw Kerevi and Vakatawa ripping at the WC. The notion that centres are uniquely affected by reduced space is clearly balls. You haven't even proven there is reduced space. Hell even Japan found space on the outside against the Boks supposedly state of the art defence.

There were 33 tries in the 2019 knockouts vs 38 in 2015.....hardly seems like a sea change, especially as 2015 saw NZ score 9 tries in blowing out France.

In the semis and two finals there were 13 tries in both 2015 and 2019. Defences are hardly more dominant. And in 2011 there were only 8 tries in the semis and finals. Perhaps defence was more potent in 2011!

But hey don't let the facts confuse you!

SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
20 Dec 2019, 09:02
#65
20 Dec 2019, 09:02#65
Inside centres are all crashballing now, that's the current trend and reason why they're not scoring as many tries, you can lament the days of Nonu, De Villiers, et al.
 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
20 Dec 2019, 17:15
#66
20 Dec 2019, 17:15#66
Balls Moz you are speaking kak Kerevi and Vakatawa did not rip through the WC not even close. The most effective centre at the WC was de Allende and that’s a fact and he hardly ripped through everyone Tries out wide says very little about what happened at 12
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Dec 2019, 17:50
#67
20 Dec 2019, 17:50#67

Shezza you and Dave just keep repeating yourselves with no proof and I keep providing proof you ignore....not very sporting. Here's another example, the French centres in the QF:

Vakatawa ...14 runs, 52 metres, 1 clean break, 5 defenders beaten, 1 try

Fickou...9 runs, 72 metres, 3 clean breaks, 3 defenders beaten


So they made clean breaks and scored.

.......


Kerevi vs England.....6 runs 3 clean breaks....no crash ball there.


And here's the clincher....in 32 runs in the knockouts Allende made 2 clean breaks. Kerevi made more in 6 runs! Allende does not breach the defence he runs into the defence!


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Dec 2019, 18:06
#68
20 Dec 2019, 18:06#68

So lets see how Mozart's past centers shaped up,  

*   The first one he has been writing praise songs about for years was Frans Steyn

*    The net one was Basteraud

*    Then we got Kuridrani

*    Then we got Kerevi

*     Last year it was Slade,

Other than Slade the other players all have the same attributes - they are pace-deficient and all  pf them has serious defense deficiencies.         

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
20 Dec 2019, 19:51
#69
20 Dec 2019, 19:51#69
Ok Moz here goes which proves my point. It’s easy to pick one game with above average centre stats and tell us this is the norm. Dig deeper and the true picture emerges Let’s look at all the WC QF games which will give us a true picture of the art of centre play in the modern game Wales vs France (20-19) 13. Watkin 7 runs 15m gained 2CB 0DB - average 2.3m per run 12. Parkes 9 runs 25m gained 2CB 1DB - average 2.7m per run 13. Vakatawa 14 runs 52m gained 1CB 5DB - average 3.7m per run 12. Fickou 9 runs 72m gained 3CB 3DB - average 8m per run SA vs Japan (26-3) 13. Am 7 runs 15m gained 2CB 0DB - average 2.1m per run 12. de Allende 9 runs 24m gained 1CB 4DB - average 2.6m per run 13. Lafaela 7 runs 11m gained 0CB 0DB - average 1.5m per run 12. Nakamura 7 runs 4m gained 0CB 1DB - average 0.5m per run NZ vs Ireland (46-14) 13. Goodhue 8 runs 15m gained 1CB 2DB - average 1.8m per run 12. Lienet- Brown 12 runs 38m gained 2CB 4DB - average 3.1m per run 13. Ringrose 5 runs 5m gained 0CB 0DB - average 1m per run 12. Henshaw 8 runs 14m gained 1CB 4DB - average 1.7m per run England vs Oz (40-16) 13. Slade 5 runs 34m gained 1CB 1DB - average 6.8m per run 12. Tuilagi 7 runs 26m gained 0CB 1DB - average 3.7m per run 13. Petaia 12 runs 62m gained 3CB 2DB - average 5.1m per run 12. Kerevi 13 runs 30m gained 2CB 4DB - average 2.3m per run So overall 1.1 clean breaks are made 2.1 defenders are beaten And an average of 3m a run are made This is hardly centres ripping through sides now is it? Comparing de Allende to Kerevi as you keep doing we see that DA gains more metres per run and equals Kerevi in defenders beaten despite having 4 runs less than him. Kerevi has one more clean break thanks to more opportunities with ball in hand Case closed Moz - centres mostly operate in traffic where defences are damn tight. Any centre gaining a large metres gained count is usually an intercept or a player finding himself in space in broken play - it’s seldom through beating a defender and running the length of the field
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Dec 2019, 21:28
#70
20 Dec 2019, 21:28#70

So your stats place Allende behind Petaia, Slade, Tuilagi, Leinert-Brown, Fickou, Vakatawa and Parkes in terms of metres per run. Placing Dud 9th or just below the mid point of QF centres. 

And he acheived that  mediocre result playing the weakest QF team,  with a surfeit of great front foot ball from a dominant pack . What a disappointment! Case closed.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
20 Dec 2019, 22:32
#71
20 Dec 2019, 22:32#71
No the stats say nothing of the sort, if one player gains a ruler length more than another per run in a game it’s hardly earth shattering - nice try though Moz By your take that would place DA ahead of most in the most important stat being defenders beaten which is why he was the best centre in the WC But that’s not the point of this, the point is that as I keep telling you, modern day centres don’t rip through sides as you maintain they should be. The game has changed too much in the last few years depriving test centres of the luxury of operating in space The case remains closed - my stats prove as much
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Dec 2019, 23:09
#72
20 Dec 2019, 23:09#72

For me 9th among 16 centres in terms of metres per carry corroborates  what my eyes told me. Allende worked for the Boks as a crashballer....the Nienaber defence disguised his poor tackling technique......the Boks media blitz on his behalf did the rest.

He's the same mediocre centre he has always been.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Dec 2019, 00:05
#73
21 Dec 2019, 00:05#73
Oh what rubbish one would swear that a metre or so more per carry makes a huge difference. By your logic it says Kerevi must have really been useless as his metres per run were less than DA’s Your take on his defence is absolute nonsense. His defence in the WC was huge. DA is the best 12 in the game right now - there is nothing mediocre about him at all. Sorry Moz it’s game over here
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Dec 2019, 17:29
#74
21 Dec 2019, 17:29#74

Anyway to come back to the team Mozart listed,   It remains an unholy mess to be  xpected from him.    He screams and carry on about Kerevi for the past two years, but does not consider defense as a requirement as is evident in this case,   When challenged on that score he went bananas about what he thought was De Allende's deficient tacklng ability - the same BS he spread for years ion site, 

As to Folau - the guy is out of rugby for keeps it seems to me.   He apparrantly approached the Bulls to play for them in Super Rugby and they said NO,   A pity - he is even though Mozart's arse-swipe thinks differently he is indeed a top class full back,

So what next - he selected Barrett at flyhalf despite the fact that he ahs not played test rugby in that position this year,

So lets summarize - he has three of the backline players from Australia - a team he himself claim is not good enough and that was the reason for their loss in the rugby championship.

In the flank position he puts in two regular blinside flanks playing on test level this year,   In one test the imbecile CC claimed Savea played as opensider - it did not take much to see that the team and he himself was defective in that game,

Next selection - both Retallick and Etzebeth are no 4 locks -  bu t Mozart wants them both in his World 15 team with neither of them having played in the no 5 position on test level ever,  

So why worry - just push in the names of favourite players and forget about performance in the position they routinely play in and make sure that the other players are nowhere in sight,   

Dave I have given up in paying attention to Mozart's BS,    The man is certainly not worth listening to on rugby issues,       

      

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Dec 2019, 18:20
#75
21 Dec 2019, 18:20#75

Ironical then that you have responded to my views 12 times on this string alone! Face it Wanker, your whole purpose on this Board is to try to contradict me......you probably wake up in the dead of night thinking......'how can I get mozart'. 


Read this from Psychology Today....and recognize yourself:


THE DOWNSIDE OF OBSESSION

At its worst, obsession is an iron mask that permits us to gaze in only one direction at one thing—or, to use another metaphor, a giant tidal wave that crashes through our minds and washes away all other concerns. We may become obsessed with a person, a place, a goal, a subject—but obsession amounts to the same thing in all cases: addiction.

At first, like all addictions, obsession is intoxicating. It fills us up, and what a relief that feeling is (especially if we felt empty before). But even if we didn't feel empty, obsession makes us feel potent, capable, and purposeful.

.......

Do you feel potent Tokkie, even if you are machine enhanced ....you stupid old coot



SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Dec 2019, 22:17
#76
21 Dec 2019, 22:17#76
Moz I wake up in the night thinking about you - am I obsessed to!!!!?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Dec 2019, 23:17
#77
21 Dec 2019, 23:17#77
Hahahaha......well Dave when you get a bit older like 72 and you wake up at all, you'll think you've dodged a bullet!
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Dec 2019, 23:43
#78
21 Dec 2019, 23:43#78
My guess is that your magazine is fully loaded One of my best mates is your age and I don’t see him as old, shit he only stopped playing rugby 5 or 6 years ago Is as hard as nails
— END OF THREAD —

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