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You need a tractor to move him off the ball...

Started by Mozart61 REPLIES859 VIEWS· 10 Apr 2017, 21:09
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Apr 2017, 09:53
#41
13 Apr 2017, 09:53#41
 Mozart
Your soundest supporter on site is saying you are a bit harsh on the Brussow issue - you have to admonish her for saying something which could be regarded as questioning your statement and thus being out of line.  
I would accept that you do not allow rebellious statements like that on the site, so before it gets out of hand you should act.  
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
13 Apr 2017, 09:58
#42
13 Apr 2017, 09:58#42
"As for Poc0ck running straight over him, every player in world rugby has gotten a tackle wrong and gotten run over. Hell, I have seen Etzebeth get flattened in a tackle before."

Yes but you're talking to Moffie here . . . the guy who sees a single incident and then holds it against that player for eternity . . . of course, only when it suits him.

You'll often hear Moffie saying things like Pieter-Steph du Toit can't tackle because he once missed a tackle on Ben Youngs, but the same thing doesn't apply when it's one of his precious little dears missing the tackle. You'll never hear Moffie saying that Skulk Burger can't tackle because little Pat Lambie busted through Skulk's feeble effort to win a Currie Cup. That kind of incident is quickly forgotten . . . but let one of the players on Moffie's very long sh!t-list make a mistake and that is held against him forever.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Apr 2017, 10:03
#43
13 Apr 2017, 10:03#43
Rooinek
Lets ask Mozart a simple question - which side of the scrum the opensiders scrum and is it influenced by the place the scrum takes place.   Lets hear what he says about that.  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Apr 2017, 14:00
#44
13 Apr 2017, 14:00#44
Nope Stephanie just can't tackle very well.....I don't even count the Youngs' case as he never even made contact. But he is tackling at a success ratio of 73% in Super 17......very low for a lock who is usually making low speed off the ruck tackles. . As for Brussouw he was played the whole of the 2009 season in which he was brilliant.....was injured throughout 2010, so not dropped. By the time he came back he had to compete for his place. . He had some decent games for the Boks leading up to the WC. In the WC against Wales he struggled against Warburton and was outplayed in the 20 minutes he played against Oz. Perhaps that was a little harsh Pakie, but the absence of a fetcher hurt us and after that he was frequently injured in matches. . So not dropped after the Lions series.....rather the victim of a series of injuries and the South African penchant for young unproven (still) players like Marcel Coetzee. .
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Apr 2017, 14:19
#45
13 Apr 2017, 14:19#45
 Matfield in his declining years could not  tackle well if a scrummie just brush him off.   But that was never mentioned by Mozart.    This is total BS as per normal and Mozart will never be able to usbstantate the junk he wrote.   For instance Brussow played for the Cheetahs in 2013 - but was ignored by Meyer - who preferred slow and useless loosies.   So what has happened in this case.   Brussow was constantly sidelined by Meyer and Coetzee was just one player whom he mentioned - not the slow and pedestrian Louw.  
Coetzee was more frequently injured than Brussow, yet the dim one thought that he was the reason fir Brussow not been selected.   Matter of fact he was not the main reason - the main reason was the selection of Louw.   And Meyer's selections started the downward slide as from 2015 and continued in 2016.
But we know whence the tripe is coming from - the one who supported initially the appointment of Coetzee.
   
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Apr 2017, 14:19
#46
13 Apr 2017, 14:19#46
 Matfield in his declining years could not  tackle well if a scrummie just brush him off.   But that was never mentioned by Mozart.    This is total BS as per normal and Mozart will never be able to usbstantate the junk he wrote.   For instance Brussow played for the Cheetahs in 2013 - but was ignored by Meyer - who preferred slow and useless loosies.   So what has happened in this case.   Brussow was constantly sidelined by Meyer and Coetzee was just one player whom he mentioned - not the slow and pedestrian Louw.  
Coetzee was more frequently injured than Brussow, yet the dim one thought that he was the reason fir Brussow not been selected.   Matter of fact he was not the main reason - the main reason was the selection of Louw.   And Meyer's selections started the downward slide as from 2015 and continued in 2016.
But we know whence the tripe is coming from - the one who supported initially the appointment of Coetzee.
   
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Apr 2017, 14:39
#47
13 Apr 2017, 14:39#47
This from the BBC match report ....Wales vs the Boks WC 2011 . "However, Wales were on top at the breakdown for large periods while the Boks could boast a capable defence as they went into the break 10-6 ahead." . By the 2011 WC Brussouw was struggling to impose himself against more physical fetchers. He lost his battle with Warburton and Poc.ock, and was looking increasingly injury prone. So when HM came in he was looking for new answers. . In any case Brussouw was not dropped in 2010, he was injured. If anything he was dropped in 2012.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Apr 2017, 14:56
#48
13 Apr 2017, 14:56#48
This hilarious post from Clevermike shows just how much he rated Brussouw, and his views were widely shared. This revisionism is a hoot: . Status: Hall Of Fame Posts: 26009 RE: Marcell Coetzee September 19, 2012, 17:07:40 Sharkbok Players can only contribute to winning quickly and effectively balls in maul situations if they are speedy enough to get to the breakdown point. I was vastly disappointed in Brussow thus far thie year - he slowed down considerably and on CC level he was very disappointing in the games thus far. On Saturday the Cheetahs had 70% possession - but they still lost the game. When Brussow handled the ball - there was no forward movement or they lost possession. Burger has ball sense and despite the fact that he is not a speedster - he knows his way about the field and is normally fairly quick to get to breakdown points. However, is he ever going to play international rugby again? Defibnitely not this year. Problem with our loosies is they are not fast enough to get to breakdown points. When they get there it often happens that our tackled player is penalized for hanging on - or the ball comes back very slowly - losing all momentum in the game. Trying to win opposition ball is largely unsuccessful - since our loosies arrive too late and any effort on their part is normally penalized. The only exxeption on Saturday was Louw - who over 100 meters will probably beat Brussow by 40 meters. In the test on Saturday that was the reason for Louw's very good showing. 0 Likes
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Apr 2017, 14:58
#49
13 Apr 2017, 14:58#49
 Mozart
Rather stick to the stats and tell us how that worked out.   By the at according to the NZ stats quoted by you Louw made a turnover - but he also gave away a penalty when he tried to make a turnover after arriving late at a breakdown.    Keep to things you know something about - rugby is not that thing.      
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
13 Apr 2017, 15:08
#50
13 Apr 2017, 15:08#50

Moz I have never backed Ford - you have me confused with someone else.


He has his moments but our 10's are far better  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Apr 2017, 15:14
#51
13 Apr 2017, 15:14#51
Okay my mistake. To me he was a liability in the Pom team and rightfully subbed early against Ireland. Farrell is a tough nut really suited to test 10 and if they had the injury prone Tuilagi playing inside Joseph they would have had a superb set up. . What do you think of Daly?
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
13 Apr 2017, 15:17
#52
13 Apr 2017, 15:17#52

Agreed, Farrell is better suited to 10 and that's where I'd play him as a Lion


I like Daly, good athlete but lacks physicality, much like Joseph.....but both good players  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Apr 2017, 15:23
#53
13 Apr 2017, 15:23#53
Clever player...his instincts are really good, but I agree he could be dominated by a big NZ wing. Still he is a delight to watch.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
13 Apr 2017, 15:24
#54
13 Apr 2017, 15:24#54
Played most of his rugby at centre but there is no room for him there in the England side  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Apr 2017, 15:33
#55
13 Apr 2017, 15:33#55
 Started with Louw - so the diversion works again
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
13 Apr 2017, 15:47
#56
13 Apr 2017, 15:47#56

I have never rated Louw.......too big for 6, too small for 7......his best bet might have been 8 but he has never had the all round skills for a 8


Very over rated player......he is good but not the best in his position by a long stretch  

AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
13 Apr 2017, 16:14
#57
13 Apr 2017, 16:14#57
 Sure Louw has had a few good plays but like Saffex stated I also believe he is over rated.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Apr 2017, 16:20
#58
13 Apr 2017, 16:20#58
Well I have to disagree...not that I think Louw is in the league of Juan Smith or Schalk.....but in a country without fetchers, he is our only active loosie who has proven he can compete at test level.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
13 Apr 2017, 17:51
#59
13 Apr 2017, 17:51#59

Disagree......Jaco Kriel is twice the player Louw is - would add so much more value to the Bok side.......he has never had a real run at 6 for the Boks......should have years ago and would walk my Bok side at 6 with his eyes closed.


Kolisi is better as well as is Carr  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Apr 2017, 18:07
#60
13 Apr 2017, 18:07#60
 Mozart
A player can do fetching if he gets to breakdown points quickly enough - otherwise efforts often result in penalties.   Louw is no speed merchant an he I stoo late arriving at breakdowns to be really effective.   Even in the test where you found a takeover by Louw - he gave away a penalty trying to make another turnover - because the penalty was for a transgression when he tried to make a second one.
With that record he is not a turnover specialist.    Even De Allende as better than Louw in that test insofar as turnovers are concerned.     
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Apr 2017, 18:31
#61
13 Apr 2017, 18:31#61
In a test like the Poms vs Ireland a small flank like Kriel would disappear....that sort of contest negates these small chaps. Poc.ock and Hooper who are much better on the deck than Kriel were non factors against the Poms last year. . Fetching was a rare skill 15 years ago, even 5 years ago. Which bred the small, specialized fetcher.....these days bigger men can all fetch almost as well and add so much more. Kriel's contribution if any at test level, will be off the bench as space opens up.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Apr 2017, 19:35
#62
13 Apr 2017, 19:35#62
 Mozart
Unfortunately you are way out here insofar as SA loosies are concerned.   Vermeulen and Louw was reasonable/very average  if they could get to breakdown points timeously,  Alberts have yet to learn what the word turnovers mean.  
However, turnovers by loosies happen farely rarely in matches and the negative is that the best turnover players give away too many penalties (eg George  Smith).   Louw - if he makes a turnover - would give away a penalty for every turnover made.  
The problem is that most big players does not have the pace too get to breakdown points and they can only be effective if a  player is tackled where they stand.   That applies to the NH loosies - all of them.  
The only players not getting themselves in a mess insofar as turnovers are concerned are Hooper and Ardie Savea.  
Because of the above one has to look at other aspects of loosie play also when one consider loosie play in general and there Kriel is top class and a player like Louw barely average because of pace deficiency.   
  
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