Uli Schmidt, Naas Botha, Danie Gerber and Jaco Reinach...when rugby had talent

Bismaark last year, was probably better than Uli Schmidt ever was. 

 Yes, I realise that but nevertheless the backline of Du Plessis brothers and Danie Gerber were a legend of good opportunistic rugby...they had flair...despite Garth Wrights bad pass to Naas that turned everything around into attacking rugby and completely fooled defense  but clever running...watched how Danie move outside Carel from the inside...what a centre...I know Uli was light on todays standard but he was a freak of strength and tough as boot leather...not too sure if wouldn't have shaped today...he was superhuman. Something we'll never know and cannot prove. Still rate him as one of the best hookers ever besides, Dalton was not big, or Keith Wood of Ireland but they must rate in the top 4 or 5 today.

Danie Gerber has no equal in the annals of SA rugby 

Well my point is that those players you mentioned bar Gerber would have stood out in the modern game. In the modern game the only back who consistently stands out is Savea.....that's how tough it is to cracking the modern defensive structures.

 Carel was a clever player and not that small. He would have kicked ass. Naas as well.

 Carel would have done well. Naas would have been exposed 

 Naas was only ever seen as a kicker, never rated as a top 10 outside SA, Gerber though was something else, superb player, with skills, pace and power. Would slot into any modern team easily.

 Poly, how much of Naas' games have you actually  seen. He was way more than only a kicker. Had the ability to read the game second to none. Being a WP man, I did not like him at all, but he was very good. Opposition flankers had a hard time to lay a hand on him. Yet another popular misconception that became reality for some not in the know.

The Boks averaged more than 3 tries per match with Naas. In his era he was the best tactical kicker in the game.  

 He had all the goods. Fast of the mark, no look pas, perfect positional play. Good accurate passing and kicking. Drop goals made look easy, but because he was good of kicking thats all he is remembered for by the ignorant.

 I can recall a game between the Southern and Northern Hemispheres back in the 80's. Saffas in the team were Naas, Danie Gerber, Flippie vd Merwe and Jaco Reinach I think. Naas actually made a couple of tries with his passing and scored one himself. Will try and get some footage on youtube.

Draad, given the era when Naas played I'm sure most NZers are judging him on his performances during the '81 tour . Btw, his play in the 3rd test at Eden Park was topnotch, with him being instrumental in setting up Mordt's third try .

I rated him above Grant Fox, another superb kicker ........ unfortunately Botha's career was spent playing mostly in SA . Given the lack of coverage at the time most of his 'foreign' critics wouldn't have a clue .

 

 Fine Bob, but then they should not flaunt their ignorance. Way back in 81 his career was only starting off really. 

polyboy

Status: Squad member
Posts: 512 RE: Uli Schmidt, Naas Botha, Danie Gerber and Jaco Reinach...when rugby had talent
December 14, 2014, 16:46:23

@ DbDraad how can it be ignorance to judge Naas on what we have seen back in 81. It was all that was available back then, we had no other coverage to go by. Just didn't rate him as a complete or near complete #10, like Grant Fox who was a pretty average 10 but his kicking kept him in ahead of Frano Botica who was more in the Carlos Spencer mold...and didn't he spend a few seasons in NFL football????

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Proof of the ignorance....

Ahh so you have decided to check the facts now, did you? Maybe you should have done that first. Of course I knew that he tried for the Dallas Cowboys I also knew that he played for a rugby union club in Dallas when the NFL thing did not work out. His club won their league at least once during his time. Could have been twice, but I am not 100% sure of that. He also helped his Italian club, Rovigo, win a few titles.


I have seen Naas playing many times, mate. Believe me, when it comes to my "ignorance" about him, you are seriously missing the boat. I saw him playing for more than N Tvl and the Springboks. I saw him play for Police, Defence and even for his varsity side, Tuks, in intervarsities between Tuks (University of Pretoria) and Maties (University of Stellenbosch). I have seen him play in probably his lowest point in his career as well. It was a game against Southwest Africa (Namibia) at Loftus. N Tvl nearly lost the game due to his mistakes and only a tenacious tackle, by him, on Wynand Mans, saved N Tvl from a defeat against bottom of the log SWA at Loftus. After that game he was dropped from the CC "A" side for the one and only time ever. He played for the NTvl "B" side against the Rooibokke, the Tvl "B" side, the next week. The week thereafter, he was back in the "A" side and back to his old self.

 Naas was rated by Craven as one of the five best players ever. Sheer ingnorance not to realise he was an all time great. 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorance
Poly, ignorance is not an insult. You basically acknowledged your ignorance by saying you based your comments on the 81 tests. I would like to see how the great AB team of today perform if subjected by the conditions the boks had to contend with back then.
PS, vlag the SH vs the NH test in the 80's, have you got any info on that? 

 I can remember the game, Draad, but I am not too sure where to find any info on it.

Naas had and has still one of the best rugby brain ever...despite the fact he was not physically imposing...he was all brain but not much beef but so clever that Danie Craven used him correctly.

He and Robert Du Preez when playing for NT were a clever combination...cannot remember who coached NT...Robert was big for a scrumhalf with an exceptionally long and accurate pass which gave Naas space. Robert was also able to handle himself physically against marauding loosies...in fact he was rather like having an extra loosie on defense...an unusual twosome but nevertheless an effective one that worked well.

Naas still the best rugby a nalysis's ever afterwards...he reads the game the best I' ve seen and backs it up with pictures.

Naas would have made an excellent coach/selector but never wanted this thankless job...he understood the politics and fickleness of the SA rugby playing authorities and the fickleness of Saffa fans...one day full of praise the next week darn right derogatory...known for the shortest memories of all people...you go from hero to zero at a drop of hat

 Naas' kit remained so clean, not only because he did not tackle but also because the opposition 's loosies could not touch him.

 It's true...he was used correctly and rarely did not have to...a really different game but a clever one nonetheless...the real trouble that their are so many talented individuals in SA and elsewhere but coaches/selectors fail to use and plan them properly so their talent and potential gets lost.

I went to school that maintained the longest record by a Natal school of undefeats ever...I think it was nearly 10 years...not sure of the years...somewhere in the late 50's to mid sixties I think and the coach that coached from 1949 to 1984 (or thereabouts)...the strange thing was not all the players were phenominal but the team effort was...he has passed on now but remains a legend...he was known, respected and consulted by many, including Dr Craven himself and Joost Van Der Westhuizen also paid him a visit for advice...that's how good he was...respected by everybody connected to rugby...his funeral was packed with rugby players , Springboks, rugby players, friends and fans...if we only could find a coach like this...he was a lovely humble and outstanding teacher and coach..he talk me, was known well by my family in Underberg and had a huge impact on my life...one of the best you'll ever find...the boys just adored him. RIP Skonk, we all miss you.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VE7sXwcbOgYSome Danie Gerber stuff

absolutely phenominal...what we've give for a no 13 (best attacking centre ever) like this, combined with a Pieter Muller at 12 (one of our best defensive one too) ...nobody would beat us I imagine.

 Another era...enjoy

http://youtu.be/l8Avd-O61bQ

sebastienchabal

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1088 RE: Uli Schmidt, Naas Botha, Danie Gerber and Jaco Reinach...when rugby had talent
December 15, 2014, 10:23:08 Naas had and has still one of the best rugby brain ever...despite the fact he was not physically imposing...he was all brain but not much beef but so clever that D anie Craven used him correctly.

He and Robert Du Preez when playing for NT were a clever combination...cannot remember who coached NT...Robert was big for a scrumhalf with an exceptionally long and accurate pass which gave Naas space. Robert was also able to handle himself physically against marauding loosies...in fact he was rather like having an extra loosie on defense...an unusual twosome but nevertheless an effective one that worked well.

Naas still the best rugby a nalysis's ever afterwards...he reads the game the best I've seen and backs it up with pictures.

Naas would have made an excellent coach/selector but never wanted this thankless job...he understood the politics and fickleness of the SA rugby playing authorities and the fickleness of Saffa fans...one day full of praise the next week darn right derogatory...known for the shortest memories of all people...you go from hero to zero at a drop of hat

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Naas was initially coached by Brig Buurman van Zyl and later by John Williams. His initial scrumhalf at N Tvl was Tommy du Plessis who was in many ways similar to Robert du Preez. Du Preez came much later. Other scrummies that he was partnered with was Divan Serfontein and Garth Wright.

 Vlag, I know a guy who played against him. His only job was to watch naas, but he said he couldn't lay a hand on him. This bloke played openside for Pretoria Police while naas was playing for tuks. Was in Naas' young days. Still 70's I think, but not sure. He said Naas almost never kicked back then.

It would have been late 70s. Naas started playing for NTvl in 1977. I saw the game where he played against OFS at Loftus for the first time. That was in 1977. In those days it was unthinkable to have a 19 year old playing CC rugby. Four years later, he captained NTvl, at the age of 23, after Thys Lourens retired. Everybody was taking the piss at NTvl for naming a 23 year old "snotkop" as their captain.

 DbDraad  you took want you want out of my comment...back in the 80's SA rugby was not televised to NZ therefore without sources like the internet, the only exposure to what Naas was like as a player was what was available shown/written by the media at the time...which was very limited...therefore the rest of the rugby world outside of SA who did not see more of Naas play who think he was more a kicker must be ignorant....based on your assumption.  Ceradyne see you also took advantage of Wikipedia.

 Poly, did you check the "ignorance " link on Wikipedia? I did not say you were ignorant by choice. As is, there is very limited info available on the net from that era. It is not an attempt by me to have a swipe at you, hence my thread about gathering more info on some invitational games in the mid 80's. I think it's worthwhile to explore. Sorry if my post were a bit snotty. I  was intended as such, but with more jest intended than anything else. Peace Bro, but let's see what we can dig up from the past, OK?

@Poly. What are you on about. I was a NTvl/Bulls supporter back in those days as well and I knew the info on Naas Botha. I watched many games that he played. I know the ages that he achieved many of his milestones because I was following it at the time. He is just a year or two younger than me. I also watched the intervarsity games that I refered to because I also studied at Tuks. I did part time studies while I was in the army. That is also why I watched him play for the Defence Force and for Police in later years. He initially joined the Defence Force after he completed his studies. He then resigned from the SADF and joined the Police Force. 
Something else that you probably would not find on Wikipedia..... Karen Botha is not his first wife. He was previously married to Lario Erasmus, IIRC. 

DbDraad no harm no foul.. no did not read Wikipedia ref...Ceradyne my memories of Botha in 81 were this " crap hope AB's don't get penalized here" cause we were all aware of Botha's kicking accuracy.  He was respected in NZ as a scoring machine with the boot.  

 Naas could kick, but he could also get his backline away. I think Cruden watched a bit of Naas vids, his little chips and corner kicks are textbook Naas.

Poly boy, ok I get it now you saw Naas play in 81. Now take note of what Draad is trying to tell you and bear in mind that Naas' playing career was from 1977 to 1992. You are tdying to judge him on three tests in extremely testing conditions. And I am not talking about conditions on the field. Naas only played in 4 tests against NZ. 

 Cera, on the 81 tour, the boks had to sleep under the stands before some games. They were treated as fugitives, but still the were no pushovers. It took 10min of "injury time" to make sure they lose the series IIRC. pardon me if I have it wrong, but I was 10 years old at the time.

Exactly.

 "It took 10min of 'injury time' to make sure they lose the series IIRC." ...... and a dodgy Clive Norling decision.


I was 26 at the time. LOL.


I recall something funny from that time. I was studying part-time at Tuks at the time. A number of the NTvl rugby players, who played for Tuks studied part time, which is how they managed to keep on playing for the University. Louis Moolman, Burger Geldenhuys, Paul Botes and Johan Marais were some of them. I was in the same Personnel Management class as Paul Botes and Johan Marais over the years that I studied. In 1981, I was in the same Business Economics class as Burger Geldenhuys. Our lecturer was Prof DC van Rooyen who was also the Patron for Tuks Rugby. The week after the Boks returned from the NZ tour, Burger was in the class for the first time in months, obviously. Prof DC decided it was time for a quick Q & A to test our knowledge.

He told us to put away all books and he started asking us questions, using the class attendance list to call out the names to answer. Obviously he spotted Burger in the class and asked a question and pretended to go down the list and said: "Could you give us the answer to this one, Mr Geldenhuys?". For obvious reasons, Burger had no clue what the answer was, having been in NZ for weeks. He called another name to give the answer. He went on to the next question and said: "Could you perhaps help us with this one, Mr Geldenhuys?". He kept on picking on poor Burger but in the end he said that he was only having a joke and he knew that he had some catching up to do.

DbDraad yes the 81 tour was quite a tumultuous time in the NZ Bok tour.  I remember a game that was to be played in Waikato was cancelled due to protester interference and was outside the ground at the infamous flour bomb test.  The country was split on sports vs politics but the protesters certainly ramped things to make it unpleasant for everyone. Here's a poser for you though my opinion of D Gerber is also based on the 81 tests because its a positive assessment..does that count as ignorance?