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DEFEATED: British Parliament REJECTS May’s Brexit Deal!!!

Forum » Beenos Trumpet » DEFEATED: British Parliament REJECTS May’s Brexit Deal!!!

Jan 16, 2019, 08:05

Yes Remainer May's phony Brexit deal suffered historically the biggest defeat ever experienced by a British PM!.


May Defeated!

Jan 16, 2019, 08:13

The Globalists are in a bit of a bind as if Brexit doesn't happen more anti EU MEPs will Arrive from Britain and help destroy the globalist EU from within. All good news.

Jan 16, 2019, 08:14

Beans, are you celebrating the rejection of the Brexit deal? I would think you would be pro Brexit. Actually, this is a massive setback for Brexit in general, and I have a feeling this may be the last nail in Brexit's coffin. If this drags on too long it may not happen at all, and then it will be back to the status quo. 

Jan 16, 2019, 08:59

Beeno 

BB has it spot on - I think May wanted Brexit to fail and this happens to be a ploy she is using to ensure it does not happen.   Remember she was for remaining in the EU and only became Prime Minister when Cameron - another anti Brexit campaigner - resigned.   

I believe that the 202 members who supported her were all against Brexit  and the 118 Conservatives who voted against the deal were from the word go for Brexit,

You may enjoy the situation - but the political situation in England is getting worse by the day,   The Conservatives will be split down the middle and will thus become sidelined in British politics, while Labour is not in a much better position.   In the referendum most of Brexit support in England came from constituencies  normally represented by Labour in Parliament,    Labour cannot but support Brexit on paper - but in fact the Labour Party is dishonest in this case - pretending they support Brexit whilst in fact opposing it.    

Neither parties wants another referendum because Labour cannot campaign against Brexit without risking their political future and the Conservatives will split irrevocably down the center when it comes to such a referendum.

So wat will happen?   The UK will ask for changes to the Brexit agreement and for extension of the negotiation period,   It will be granted for a month or be used by the EU to delay the elections of the EU Parliament in May and grant an extension of 6 months with the elections delayed for the same period.   The latter is a very likely scenario - since indications are bad for the EU if elections are in fact held in May 2019,  The support for parties against the EU's  present conduct is increasing massively - while the leftist parties are in serious trouble. 

But back to the UK where  politics are in a shamble and there will never be support for any Brexit agreement and that would end up about the UK deciding to ignore the referendum results and remain in the EU,     That at least is my prediction,    .     

Jan 16, 2019, 09:08

My thoughts exactly Mike. Which is why I don't understand Beans celebrating this Brexit deal being thwarted. It was very surprising for me that they voted for Brexit in the first place, although I can understand the frustrations of the man on the street which led to Brexit. Now though, I just don't see it happening. 

Jan 16, 2019, 09:34

I think Beens wants a hard, immediate break, and not a soft, gradual negotiated one????

Jan 16, 2019, 11:11

BB

It will not happen like Beeno wanted it,   Referendums are not accepted by the EU.   They ignored referendum results completely in Portugal, the Netherland and Greece and bludgeon the Governments to accept their wishes despite referendums outcomes.

The EU is not a democratic institution - they care  zero about the voters of any of the member states and they will do the same to the UK.   Voters are for them the use of the idealist few who believes in theories inspired by the media controlled by the globalist elite and their control of Europe is based on everything but protection of the rights of residents,

A dangerous undemocratic organization controlled by Germany -  so what is its real value of the EU?    It is based on the dreams of Hitler and Stalin being executed through a different method, without regard to democracy.        

Jan 16, 2019, 11:16

Netso Maaik!


Jan 16, 2019, 12:24

Baboon-ou doesn't really understand concepts like nationalism, globalism and Brexit. He reads about them on his loony sites like Infowars.com, Conservapedia.com and Answersingenesis.org and starts parroting what they say but he's too stupid to really understand any of it . . . so it's no surprise he's now trumpeting the failure of the Brexit deal as if it's a victory. 

Jan 16, 2019, 19:11

Beeno has proved many times that he won't let facts get in the way of a good fairy tale.

To him everything is true that that he wants to believe and no matter what truth is put in front of him he just choses to ignore it.

Take evolution, a proven scientific fact with a mountain of evidence to support it but since it proves genesis is bullshit he just ignores it.

He cant even see that evolution neither proves there is a god or not but it does prove his book is wrong so therefore the whole theory is wrong.

How can anyone go through life so ignorant amazes me.

If science proved there was a creator god i would accept it in a heartbeat but i bet if science proved otherwise he would still not change. That is true ignorance and for that he will always be a prisoner of his childhood.

Religion is no more than child abuse and the sooner man is free from its chains the better.

Jan 16, 2019, 19:56

Religion child abuse you say?

Jan 16, 2019, 20:00


Jan 16, 2019, 20:03

For sure, filling them with fear and telling them they are born evil is nothing but child abuse.


Jan 16, 2019, 20:54

I don't do that. Your perception of my religion is wrong on so many levels, it's useless to even try and set you straight. Someone did a nasty job on you....my apologies on behalf of decency. 

Jan 16, 2019, 21:13

Richard Dawkins suggests that instilling religious fear in children to be scared of God is manipulation. 

God drowns the world and then promises next time he will burn the world with no survivors (not even Noah) . The punish and reward sanctions rhetoric strategies. They make God sound worse than the Jihadi's. It is my way, or no way. 

If someone heard this for the first time as an adult it could be laughable, but if you heard it as a 4-year-old when you are more impressionable - it may not be so funny. 

This is the next generation of charity donations- and with a dwindling annual revenue- they have to pull out all of the stops.

Science at least admits weaknesses of arguments and is more objective.

Religion tries to present itself as fact to gain more followers. (donations). The biggest joke of all is religion claiming they are scientists - after years of persecuting scientists and burning them at the stake. If you can beat them join them- and now say they were always scientists.....


Jan 16, 2019, 21:24

Nobody did a nasty job on me. I had fantastic loving parents and i have been very lucky in my life.

My parents instilled values in my life.

I am not saying that religious parents are all evil and non loving but the teaching of your church has some serious issues with its teachings and relies on instilling fear into children to ensure that they follow your doctrine.

I am sorry but i can only see evil in what your religion teaches to children. It is based on making the kids fear that they are doomed to an eternity of tourture if they dont believe and follow the teachings. How can you see this as a way to raise children?


Jan 16, 2019, 21:34

I haven’t read all the posts on this thread yet but this is my take.

Thinks are turning out just dandy for Brexit at the moment, IMO.

Parliament has not voted down Brexit. They have voted down Theresa May’s Brexit deal. Then the big joke came when Jeremy Corbyn, in typical opportunistic Corbyn style tried to steal No 10 from the Tories only to be dealt a moerse nice bloody nose.

The Tories survived the vote of no confidence by 19 votes.

What does all of this mean? We are well on our way of getting the ideal outcome. Leaving the EU with no deal. We don’t owe the clowns anything and the Brits het to do with their money and their trade and their borders and whatever in the way they want.

They can once again give precedence to their own Common Wealth without have to bow down to some unelected bunch of bloodsuckers in Brussels. They can trade with whoever they want to when they want to. They can raise and deal with their taxes in any way they want to. There is a big wide world out there beyond the constraints of the EU.

Jan 16, 2019, 22:58

I'm getting tired of the anti Christian vitriol by people who doesnt know or even want to know the basics of what Jesus tought. 

Wrstern Civilization was built on Christianity...the good and the bad. Lately we get blamed for all the bad. Child abuse? Give me a fcn break. Have you seen what some of your secular buddies have been doing to kids of late? Angelina Jolie's transectual daughter for one? 

You know nothing about how I raise my kids, yet are quick to make sweeping statements. 

Some if the Atheists I know are tbe biggest bigots around. Luckily I'm not daft enough to paint them all with the same brush. I know some level headed fair ones too.

Go and look at the quality of life for a kid in the 70's and have  a look at it now. That's how secular liberalism is fcng up the world. By the time you lot wake up, it will be too late.

Dawkins is not a scientist,  he is a Christ hater hiding behind science. Humanist activist and arsehole of note. Should have been Dickins.


Jan 16, 2019, 23:11

PS, you lot are doing exactly what you are accusing Christians of doing. And don't give me the "science " horse sh!t. There are no serious qualified scientists in here. Parroting Dawkins doesn't mean you understand anything. Hell he doesn't even understand most of the BS he is supposedly opposed to.

Jan 17, 2019, 00:53

Ancient Greece contributed more to modern civilisation than Christianity- and predates Christianity.


Christianities major contribution was the dark ages where civilization went backwards. 

It was Protestants that eventually broke the shackles of the Catholic Church (Aka the Taliban)-  to pick up from where the Ancient Greeks left off. Rejection (Protest) against absolute truth of religious dogma, and the revival of democratic values.

Dawkins is just a person with an opinion, he loves to smash the Christian faith. He does provide solid arguments on why religion is just an illusion. He is much smarter than the monkeys he challenges in debates. 


If someone does not work as a scientist, they are not a scientist. However, people can think in an objective manner and more scientifically- than the likes of Christian simpletons like Beeno.

What many religious people do not realise is that your believes of religion have for the most part being implanted into you as a kid. 
If you never heard of religion until you were an adult, your views may be very different- and more enlightened.


The Churches only real contribution to science was Copernicus- who they burnt at the stake for being a heretic. Their most enlightened thinker burnt for the truth.
.
Copernicus
Copernicus (1473-1543) was not the first person to claim that the Earth rotates around the Sun. In Western civilization, ancient Greek astronomer Aristarchus of Samos is generally credited with being the first person to propose a Sun-centred astronomical hypothesis of the universe (heliocentric).
--
Other people were also burnt alive by the Church for agreeing with Copernicus, was Bruno.

Giordano Bruno - Wikipedia


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno
Giordano Bruno was an Italian Dominican friar, philosopher, mathematician, poet, and ... The Inquisition found him guilty, and he was burned at the stake in Rome's Campo de' Fiori in 1600. .... Abbot mocked Bruno for supporting "the opinion of Copernicus that the earth [sic] did go round, and the heavens did stand still; ...
Notable ideas?: ?Cosmic pluralism

Jan 17, 2019, 02:46

Christianity turned Germany, France and England, countries ruled by the sword, into countries ruled by law.....way before the Protestants emerged.

As for the Ancient Greeks, they were highly religious. Take Pythagorus:

'Pythagoras is considered one of the Ionian thinkers but outside the Milesian school: he was originally from Samos, an offshore Ionian settlement. His approach combines science with religious beliefs, something that would have caused horror among the Milesian school. His philosophy has a dose of mysticism, probably an influence of the Orphic tradition. Mathematics, in the sense of demonstrative deductive arguments, begins with Pythagoras: he is credited as the author of the first known mathematical formulation, the theorem which states that the square of the longest side of a right triangle equals the sum of the squares of the other two sides. Deductive reasoning from general premises seems to have been a Pythagorean innovation.'

Or Socrates:

'This study argues that to understand Socrates we must uncover and analyze his religious views, since his philosophical and religious views are part of one seamless whole. Mark McPherran provides a close analysis of the relevant Socratic texts, an analysis that yields a comprehensive and original account of Socrates' commitments to religion (e.g., the nature of the gods, the immortality of the soul). McPherran finds that Socrates was not only a rational philosopher of the first rank, but a figure with a profoundly religious nature as well, believing in the existence of gods vastly superior to ourselves in power and wisdom and sharing other traditional religious commitments with his contemporaries. However, Socrates was just as much a sensitive critic and rational reformer of both the religious tradition he inherited and the new cultic incursions he encountered. McPherran contends that Socrates saw his religious commitments as integral to his philosophical mission of moral examination and, in turn, used the rationally derived convictions underlying that mission to reshape the religious conventions of his time. As a result, Socrates made important contributions to the rational reformation of Greek religion, contributions that incited and informed the theology of his brilliant pupil, Plato.'

.......

So the Ancient Greeks made huge contributions.....but here's the thing.....from a profoundly religious culture.

......

This notion that religion was in the way of a superior rational man.....is a nonsense. Religion enabled and motivated much of our progress.

And as God dies for many we are well down the path to deifying man and science. And it will be good for us, a consensus of scientists agree.

Jan 17, 2019, 03:41


Religion has had a place as people evolved out of animals into humans. 

The ancient Greeks also invented atheism and had various Gods showing they were more tolerant. They were "not" monolithic in their ideology. 

It is hard to say that a monolithic God ( only one God) is making any contribution to a global society.  It is not democratic and open-minded to other people's viewpoints.

Islam is an Abrahamic monotheistic religion which teaches that there is only one God, and that Muhammad is the messenger of God. It is the world's second-largest religion with over 1.8 billion followers. (some believe it their job to convert everyone to their religion- as had Christianity)

 Christianity- and any other monolithic religion, in particular, is probably doing more damage than good in the modern era.

It seems any religious people that are monolithic criticize any other religion, or non-religion as zero. It is like a communist view of the truth and totally intolerant- and the real Globalist conspiracy using reverse phycology. Their religious absolute truth is better than a relative truth/ democratic truth. 
Passing of a personal opinion as God's opinion by cherry picking pieces of the Bible or Koran to suit their own viewpoints.



Jan 17, 2019, 06:53

That's a point of view, but an unproven one. We have little history of a godless society but for the Soviet Union or Communist China.....both of which are up there in the Pantheon (those pesky Greeks again) of brutal regimes.

And if you want to get rid of religion, how do you justify monarchies. I'd get rid of those and see how we get on. Given nobody has a clue how we all got here and life is trivial anyway, let people believe what they want as long as they don't threaten others.

Jan 17, 2019, 07:37

Not sure how this Brexit discussion became a religious discussion but just to set the struggling Draad straight, Richard Dawkins is a scientist:


Dawkins was awarded a Doctor of Science degree by the University of Oxford in 1989. He holds honorary doctorates in science from the University of HuddersfieldUniversity of WestminsterDurham University,[171] the University of Hull, the University of Antwerp, the University of Oslo, the University of Aberdeen,[172] Open University, the Vrije Universiteit Brussel,[39] and the University of Valencia.[173] He also holds honorary doctorates of letters from the University of St Andrews and the Australian National University (HonLittD, 1996), and was elected Fellow of the Royal Society of Literature in 1997 and a Fellow of the Royal Society (FRS) in 2001.[2][39] He is one of the patrons of the Oxford University Scientific Society.

In 1987, Dawkins received a Royal Society of Literature award and a Los Angeles Times Literary Prize for his book The Blind Watchmaker. In the same year, he received a Sci. Tech Prize for Best Television Documentary Science Programme of the Year for his work on the BBC's Horizon episode The Blind Watchmaker.[39]

His other awards include the Zoological Society of London's Silver Medal (1989), the Finlay Innovation Award (1990), the Michael Faraday Award (1990), the Nakayama Prize (1994), the American Humanist Association's Humanist of the Year Award (1996), the fifth International Cosmos Prize (1997), the Kistler Prize (2001), the Medal of the Presidency of the Italian Republic (2001), the 2001 and 2012 Emperor Has No Clothes Award from the Freedom From Religion Foundation, the Bicentennial Kelvin Medal of The Royal Philosophical Society of Glasgow (2002),[39] and the Nierenberg Prize for Science in the Public Interest (2009).[174] He was awarded the Deschner Award, named after German anti-clerical author Karlheinz Deschner.[175] The Committee for Skeptical Inquiry (CSICOP) has awarded Dawkins their highest award In Praise of Reason (1992).[176]

Dawkins topped Prospect magazine's 2004 list of the top 100 public British intellectuals, as decided by the readers, receiving twice as many votes as the runner-up.[177][178] He was shortlisted as a candidate in their 2008 follow-up poll.[179] In a poll held by Prospect in 2013, Dawkins was voted the world's top thinker based on 65 names chosen by a largely US and UK-based expert panel.[180]

In 2005, the Hamburg-based Alfred Toepfer Foundation awarded him its Shakespeare Prize in recognition of his "concise and accessible presentation of scientific knowledge". He won the Lewis Thomas Prize for Writing about Science for 2006, as well as the Galaxy British Book Awards's Author of the Year Award for 2007.[181] In the same year, he was listed by Time magazine as one of the 100 most influential people in the world in 2007,[182] and was ranked 20th in The Daily Telegraph's 2007 list of 100 greatest living geniuses.[183]

Since 2003, the Atheist Alliance International has awarded a prize during its annual conference, honouring an outstanding atheist whose work has done the most to raise public awareness of atheism during that year; it is known as the Richard Dawkins Award, in honour of Dawkins's own efforts.[184] In February 2010, Dawkins was named to the Freedom From Religion Foundation's Honorary Board of distinguished achievers.[185]

In 2012, ichthyologists in Sri Lanka honored Dawkins by creating Dawkinsia as a new genus name (members of this genus were formerly members of the genus Puntius). Explaining the reasoning behind the genus name, lead researcher Rohan Pethiyagoda was quoted as stating, "Richard Dawkins has, through his writings, helped us understand that the universe is far more beautiful and awe-inspiring than any religion has imagined [...]. We hope that Dawkinsia will serve as a reminder of the elegance and simplicity of evolution, the only rational explanation there is for the unimaginable diversity of life on Earth.[186]


Wow! That's a lot of awards and qualifications for an arsehole who knows nothing about science!

LMAO!

Draad, you carry on believing what your uneducated, god-fearing, brainwashed dominee tells you . . . I'll believe the oke with the qualifications and awards listed above.

Jan 17, 2019, 08:26

This thread has gone off on a a serious tangent! Dawkins is a bit arrogant, and I find him to be condescending and from a personality point of view, not particularly likable, but if you have ever watched one of his debates you simply cannot deny that he is a scientist, and a very knowledgeable and intelligent one. You can call him arrogant, obnoxious or whatever you want, but to say he is not a scientist only makes you look stupid.  


As for religion, DbDraad, I get that you are angry and defensive, but even you must admit that from a scientific, evidence and proven fact point of view, all religions have countless questionable attributes and contradictions. Religious people can see past these issues relying on their faith in the written word, atheists cannot. My advice to you is, don't take offence, you believe what you believe, but if someone does not believe what you believe, then either try to convince them why they are wrong, or ignore them. For me personally, there are too many holes in the narrative of any of the major religions for me to buy into any one of them. I remain open minded though, and I truly hope for someone to one day to show me evidence, or whatever else, convincing enough for me to commit my life to religion. For me, there may be a God, there may not be a God. If there is a God he may love the world and listen to prayers people, or he may be an emotionless all powerful creative force that simple kicked off the universe in a big bang and then left it to its own devices. I can say nothing for sure, but the evidence for Christianity in particular, because it is the religion I am most familiar with, is just too questionable, too tainted, and its results on humanity too cruel for me to be anywhere near convinced that it is the message of a loving God. 

For the Christians here, I am an open book, convince me. But I need proof.  

Jan 17, 2019, 10:06

Moved to this thread

Jan 17, 2019, 10:12

Sorry Dradd i am not attacking you personally.

I am pointing out a view of the harm RELGION ( not just yours) does to children.

I am  commenting on one aspect and not saying you are a cruel and abusive parent in all aspects. 

So you support the act of criticizing religion to be outlawed and made a criminal offense now?

It is still a free world in most countries and I am free to speak just as you are so sorry if that offends you.

Go on youtube and there are thousands of videos attacking Atheist and their views but I dont get offended I just watch to see if they make any good points ( they dont).

I think your outrage is caused by the fact you cannot logical refute the information against you but you just cannot let go of the brainwashing from your childhood. You are a perfect example of my argument.

Jan 17, 2019, 10:22

Draad, by divorcing himself from religion and not wearing a "god hat" as you call it, Dawkins is doing exactly what science demands of any self-respecting scientist.


You would do well to read (and understand) this excerpt from the National Academies of Science website:

Compatibility of Science and Religion

Science is not the only way of knowing and understanding. But science is a way of knowing that differs from other ways in its dependence on empirical evidence and testable explanations. Because biological evolution accounts for events that are also central concerns of religion — including the origins of biological diversity and especially the origins of humans — evolution has been a contentious idea within society since it was first articulated by Charles Darwin and Alfred Russel Wallace in 1858.

Acceptance of the evidence for evolution can be compatible with religious faith. Today, many religious denominations accept that biological evolution has produced the diversity of living things over billions of years of Earth’s history. Many have issued statements observing that evolution and the tenets of their faiths are compatible. Scientists and theologians have written eloquently about their awe and wonder at the history of the universe and of life on this planet, explaining that they see no conflict between their faith in God and the evidence for evolution. Religious denominations that do not accept the occurrence of evolution tend to be those that believe in strictly literal interpretations of religious texts.

Science and religion are based on different aspects of human experience. In science, explanations must be based on evidence drawn from examining the natural world. Scientifically based observations or experiments that conflict with an explanation eventually must lead to modification or even abandonment of that explanation. Religious faith, in contrast, does not depend only on empirical evidence, is not necessarily modified in the face of conflicting evidence, and typically involves supernatural forces or entities. Because they are not a part of nature, supernatural entities cannot be investigated by science. In this sense, science and religion are separate and address aspects of human understanding in different ways. Attempts to pit science and religion against each other create controversy where none needs to exist. 



Jan 17, 2019, 10:59

“It was Protestants that eventually broke the shackles of the Catholic Church (Aka the Taliban)- to pick up from where the Ancient Greeks left off. Rejection (Protest) against absolute truth of religious dogma, and the revival of democratic values.”

Protestants are not Christians? Is that what you’re saying? It seems like that.

Jan 17, 2019, 11:09

Moved to this thread

Jan 17, 2019, 15:45

Last comment on religion - before transferring to the new dedicated thread.


@Ceradyne- Revival is cultural enlightenment- or Rebirth. Also known as the Renaissance. This rebirth was like being born again- away from the dogmatic static believes of the Church.

 Protestants are moderate or more left-wing Christians, or even agnostic in their beliefs. Over the years Protestants have become more agnostic- or even more atheist.

The movement or split of the Christian Church was inspired by the Renaissance. (Cultural Revival)- when records of the Ancient Greeks were re-discovered in the East- and taken back to the West. 

The original Greek records of knowledge were possibly burnt by the Catholic Church, except for keeping some areas within the Church like Rhetoric.
So the Renaissance, and then the Protestant/ was inspired by the ancient Greeks- the inventors of democracy and capitalism. As it stands Protestant heritage counties are on average much smarter than Catholic countries- from ancient Greek knowledge, not Jesus

 
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