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Gun Laws

Forum » Beenos Trumpet » Gun Laws

Apr 09, 2019, 18:51

Wow

Apr 09, 2019, 18:53

That's how easy it is to own a gun in Switzerland.  I also think all citizens are supposed to be Army reserve or something.


Apr 09, 2019, 19:36

I would prefer banning of guns and knifes - at least in certain countries. That Australian nutcase in New Zealand is a perfect example why. 



Apr 10, 2019, 10:13

Madness...... as the saying goes "An accident waiting to happen."

Apr 10, 2019, 10:42

Banning knives may stop knive crimes but will it stop stabbings? Just asking.

Apr 10, 2019, 10:48

Might just as well start banning hammers and axes too. Cars and busses too. Let's take all responsibilities away from the  citizens and let government decide everything.

Apr 10, 2019, 10:51

...and then complain about the nanny state.

Apr 10, 2019, 11:05

Posted by: Plum (3569 posts)

Apr 10, 2019, 10:51

...and then complain about the nanny state.”

Jaaaa  :D:D



Apr 10, 2019, 11:23

@Plum

When are these idiots going to understand that the problem is not the gun laws and the traffic laws and the violence laws or the number of policeman or the liquor laws or the racism laws or, or, or...?

All these issues have one single common cause. A fucked up society which all started with all these shyte “isms” we have nowadays. Everything is twisted into all kinds of weird “issues” that we need to “fight”. 

We currently have a US Congress fighting over so-called white supremely which is really about the left whose agenda has become so exposed that they have no choice but to keep on digging up all kinds of weird shyte to “fight against”, even if they have to make shit up. 

Check this incident in Congress yesterday. Watch right up to where Owens gets to respond to Lieu’s allegations against her.



Apr 10, 2019, 11:25

The biggest reason not to ban guns is that an armed population can take on a Marxist/ Globalist anti democratic takeover. That is why Americans will NEVER give up their arms and why they have a Second Amendment.

Apr 10, 2019, 11:28

MUST-SEE VIDEO: Teens Beat Man Outside of Restaurant on Chicago’s Gold Coast – Until Victim Pulls Out Gun, Watch Their Reaction!

The reaction from inside the restaurant was interesting. The people only got excited when the man drew his gun.

Apr 10, 2019, 11:43

A weird issue is giving Joe Public the A-Ok to buy weapons with mass killing capability and assuming that Joe Public is in a permanent sane state of being and also assuming that even if Joe Public is sane he wouldn't lose his cool for whatever reason and grab his semi-automatic to exact revenge as we've seen from previous examples. 

Only a fool would place blind trust in his fellow man to always behave responsibly.

Apr 10, 2019, 11:45

Cera

Candice is a bit of legend already. I watched that video last night, haha came up on my feed. Didn't watch the Q&A afterwards though. Will check it out now.

In my office, i can use everything from a USB cable, to a computer tower, to a pen or scissor, my tea cup or just about anything else i can see to kill someone. 

Show me a gun that is more deadly than my bakkie and i'll buy you a beer. 

I can build you a mean crossbow out of some pvc pipe, some wood and a 16mm bolt.. Fuck me, i can build about three different types of bomb in my garage. 

I have a sport line German Shepard and about five Great Danes too. Dogs have killed people. 

How many toddlers are killed annually by swimming pools? Since 9/11, swimming pools accounted for around 13,600 child deaths in the US alone. I didn't see the world change as a result, did you?

Heaven forbid my girlfriend finds the anti-freeze.'

It's not about tools. Its about will. 

Its not about lives. It's about votes.

It's because the numpties are allowed to propagate that this is happening. 



Apr 10, 2019, 11:46

"Only a fool would place blind trust in his fellow man to always behave responsibly."

Do you drive Denny?

Apr 10, 2019, 11:49

Don't worry, Switzerland is a neutral and peaceful country...probably need some protection against outside illegal criminal invaders...much ado about nothing by the alarmists and fear mongers. These panic mechanics have tendencies to  strain at gnats whilst swallowing camels and have no sense of priorities.

Meanwhile back at home farmers and innocent people are being slaughtered.

Rather get our own house in order before trying to arrange other country houses.


Apr 10, 2019, 11:50

What's your point? Just spit it out.

Apr 10, 2019, 11:51

Do you drive Denny?”



Apr 10, 2019, 11:52

Seb

I'm all for the farmers to be armed.

Apr 10, 2019, 11:54

Having a bad day at the office, Vlag? ...it's showing.

Apr 10, 2019, 12:02

Designer viruses, that's the big one, and it's just around the corner. Groot kak.

Apr 10, 2019, 12:06

Dense does drive . . . even when he's hammered.

Apr 10, 2019, 12:18

Posted by: Denny (6698 posts)

Apr 10, 2019, 11:54

Having a bad day at the office, Vlag? ...it's showing.”

Nope. On the contrary. I am having loads of fun taking the piss at the lunatic leftist luvvies. They are all preaching peace to everyone while they are all actually warmongering idiots being propped up by the MSM and the military industrial complex. The irony is that their blind idiotic followers do not even get that.



Apr 10, 2019, 12:40

You must have a lot of time on your hands.

But tell me this, why can't you see that there's a huge difference between the capabilities of a semi automatic to take more innocent lives as opposed to a handgun? That it's convenient and more effective in the hands of someone who wants to kill as many people as possible than if that very same person had to use a knife, Bakkie or whatever other than a semi-automatic?

There are living examples that the weapon of choice of the half crazies,crazies and non crazies is the....wait for it.......semi-automatic. Surely commonsense prevails to make it harder rather than easier for semi-automatics to prevail itself. 

Anyway, that's not only my point of view, New Zealand has belatedly adopted the same view just as Australia did 15 years ago.

Apr 10, 2019, 13:17

Why would anyone want to have an automatic gun or even a semi-automatic gun?  (Other than say the police or military). 

I can understand why some farmers would need guns to protect themselves in a place like Africa, but is it freedom of rights for people to have guns as toys? 

I would actually like my own nuclear bomb that I could keep in my back garden. It believes its part of my right-wing freedom of rights....

In the UK, police are encouraging people to report people that carry knives. Why would you need to carry a knife around? Most of the people who carry knives around are kids - often from Africa. The idea is to stop violence escalating so it does not become Africa.





Apr 10, 2019, 13:21

Apr 10, 2019, 11:23

@Plum

When are these idiots going to understand that the problem is not the gun laws and the traffic laws and the violence laws or the number of policeman or the liquor laws or the racism laws or, or, or...?

All these issues have one single common cause. A fucked up society which all started with all these shyte “isms” we have nowadays. Everything is twisted into all kinds of weird “issues” that we need to “fight”. 

----------------------------

Cavemen were fighting and killing each other, long before being politically correct. The difference was they could not build automatic firearms. 

Some of the guns in America have exploding bullets that detonate on impact. Who is their target market- why would you want an exploding bullet. 


Apr 10, 2019, 13:23

"Why would anyone want to have an automatic gun or even a semi-automatic gun?  (Other than say the police or military).".....or the Farmers in South Africa.

Thanks. Exactly my point.

Apr 10, 2019, 13:29

@Plum,


If toddlers are killed by swimming pools, the answer is to continue to try to make these pools safer - not to allow automatic weapons. The parents are accountable in this case of pool accidents- but they are not accountable for a stray bullet from some lunatic with an automatic weapon. This reasoning is the words of a crazy person.

If someone gets caught building homemade bombs, the answer is to put them in jail. What justifiable reason do you have for a building a bomb? 
Jail is the deterrent for building a bomb in the first place, and the death sentence is the deterrent for using it.  
 
I am yet to see someone ride over 50+ people with one bakkie. However, it is a balance between safety and necessity. Yes, a car can be dangerous but we also need cars for transportation, so it is a necessary risk. Well at least for now, because cars will become safer once driving is automated by AI. The idea is to try to minimize accidents and not use them for justification of weapons. 

If you have lots of aggressive dogs, keep them on a tight leash. If they attack someone like a baby, you will have a lot of answering to do. This has nothing to do with guns, but the police can take an untrained dog and kill it, if it is a menace to society. If it happens again, you are a menace to society. 

Apr 10, 2019, 14:03

Apr 10, 2019, 10:42

Banning knives may stop knive crimes but will it stop stabbings? Just asking.

Apr 10, 2019, 14:22

Banning knives may stop knive crimes but will it stop stabbings? Just asking.

He completely misses the point.....knife killing vs mass killing with a semi-automatic. The whole purpose of using a semi-automatic is to mass kill. Some of the crazies even pack in a handgun but interestingly enough they start off shooting with an automatic weapon not the hand gun.

And that argument that it's not the gun doing the killing but the person firing the gun is hardly the point. 

Take that gun out of the market place......we're talking mass death here not the sale of popcorn.


Apr 10, 2019, 14:24

"semi automatic to take more innocent lives as opposed to a handgun"

Do you even understand the difference between the different types of "guns"?

An automatic rifle. This is a weapon that can fire bullets in bursts for as long as you hold in the trigger. These are banned for civilians in the US.

A semi-automatic gun is a weapon that fires a bullet every time you pull the trigger. These are legal in the US. This is also where the term "bump stock" come into play. Bump stock is a way of converting a semi-automatic rifle into an automatic rifle. That is illegal to do in the US. I am not 100% sure how it is done on the AR15 but I assume that it is similar than what was done to "convert" the old South African R3 semi-automatic into an automatic R1. It was literally as simple as taking a hammer and a chisel and removing a little pin that stopped the selector from going from "R", for Rapid Fire to "A" for automatic. That was the only difference between and R3 and an R1. The selector on the R1 could go "one click" further to automatic.

With that settled there is the other conundrum in your statement, i.e. "..as opposed to handguns.."

All handguns are semi-automatic. Even revolvers. Revolvers? Yes, even revolvers. 

You have to understand what a semi-automatic rifle is. You have semi-automatic and automatic rifles on the one side and bolt action rifles on the other side. A semi-automatic rifle (and an automatic rifle, for that matter) does not need to be reloaded manually by using the bolt to unload shell and reload a new cartridge into the barrel. Instead it uses the gas as a recoil to push back the working parts of the rifle to extract the empty shell and insert e new cartridge. 

When it comes to handguns you basically have three types, ie revolvers, pistols and machine pistols. 

A revolver fits in somewhere between a bolt action rifle and a semi-automatic rifle. You can fire a revolver in the same way as a semi-automatic rifle by keeping on pulling the trigger. It is not recommended though, because of accuracy. It is far more accurate to cock the revolver before firing the next shot because you do not need that much force to fire it in that way.

A pistol is a semi-automatic handgun which fires a bullet every time you pull the trigger. Simple as that.

A machine pistol is nothing more than a very compact machine gun that normally fires the same type of ammunition than a normal pistol. Although they are also handguns and very compact, they are still very bulky compared to revolvers and pistols.

Some of the myths around current gun laws in the US are:

1. Anybody can buy a gun. False. You have to pass an FBI check. There are many categories of people who are prohibited from buying guns.

Note. The problem is that all the relevant authorities do not update the FBI data base as required by law. That means that the current laws are not properly implemented and carried out. How is adding more gun laws going to help if the current ones aren't even enforced? 

2. You can convert a semi-automatic to an automatic. Yes it is possible but it is illegal. You are not allowed to do that.

3. You can use high capacity magazines. Yes it is possible but it is illegal. You are not allowed to do that.

4. You can buy a gun at Walmart. Yes, you can but you still have to pass a background check and you should not be a person prohibited from buying a gun.

All of this comes back to my remark that all this shyte is down to a fucked up society and not down to fucked up gun laws, guns, knives, bombs, cars, booze, etc.

Apr 10, 2019, 14:32

@Ceradunce, I am hoping you Google'd this- otherwise you know a surprising amount about guns. You do get those militant type church people who are far right wing and just waiting for things to get out of control..

Apr 10, 2019, 14:37

"He completely misses the point.....knife killing vs mass killing with a semi-automatic."

No.You are missing the point. You are blinded by the fact that more people are killed in one mass killing incident than in other single  killing incidents. Fact is that the number of people killed annually in mass killings are minimal in comparison to the number of people killed annually in other shooting incidents.



Apr 10, 2019, 14:49

If you got killed in a mass killing or a small time one, would it really matter? Or if you knew someone that was killed etc? 


Guns also give gangs the means to grow more powerful. 

Apr 10, 2019, 14:56

"@Ceradunce, I am hoping you Google'd this- otherwise you know a surprising amount about guns. You do get those militant type church people who are far right wing and just waiting for things to get out of control.."

I was in the Army for 14 1/2 years and I have fired many different rifles in my time. I had an Army issue R1, and qualified for silver shooting efficiency badge. Some of the rifles I fired on many occasions were my 9mm Star which I was issued as an officer, AK47, .50 Browning machine gun, LMG, R5, 7.62mm Bren machine gun and an old Vickers water-cooled machine gun. 

 In addition, my in-laws were farmers who had many different rifles on the farm. I, myself had a 9mm Browning and an old army stock .303 Lee Enfield. I was in my school shooting team where we used .22mm rifles.

As you know, I have been in the UK for a number of years and as you also know, there is no way for the average person in the UK to even possess a fire arm.

Apr 10, 2019, 15:08

"If you got killed in a mass killing or a small time one, would it really matter?"

No. It doesn't. If you're dead, you're dead. The point, however is that it brings us back to my point, which has not yet been challenged. it has nothing to do with guns, gun laws, automatic, semi-automatic, bump stocks, high capacity magazines, etc. It has everything to do with a damaged society. 

 "Or if you knew someone that was killed etc?" 

See above.


"Guns also give gangs the means to grow more powerful. "

Once again. Is it the guns or the gangs who are at fault. 

It is like the US immigration story. The lefts are saying that the right is against immigrants. They chose to ignore the right's support for the legal immigrants and they chose to ignore the illegal part. 

When it comes to guns, though, they chose to ignore the legal law abiding gun owners and are concentrating on the illegal gun owners. Typical PC bullshit where the arguments are twisted to suit their agenda.


Apr 10, 2019, 15:59

@Ceradyne. 


"Guns also give gangs the means to grow more powerful. "

Once again. Is it the guns or the gangs who are at fault. 

---------

No it is not the guns fault. A gun does not have a brain, so it does not have the ability to commit a crime..

However, if the gang never had guns they would be less powerful, and therefore have less ability to grow as a criminal organisation\ 

Ok, they (criminals) could make their own guns - but if it was a 20-year prison sentence for the manufacture of guns, and 10 years for possession - then it deters many from doing so. For those that it does not deter, it is an opportunity to put them in jail and get them off the street. 


Apr 10, 2019, 16:03

A question ? Does anybody know what's happening in this country ?

Instead of blindly reading drivel and lies in international media.

Another dose of hypocrisy.

"Heck, bro I think there's a speck in one of your eyes says the blinded man with a log in his...can I help you remove it. Funny but not so funny in the real case, typical...it has an empty ring to it and all the sheep go baaaaaaaa, thats right."

Apr 10, 2019, 16:37

“However, if the gang never had guns they would be less powerful, and therefore have less ability to grow as a criminal organisation\

Ok, they (criminals) could make their own guns - but if it was a 20-year prison sentence for the manufacture of guns, and 10 years for possession - then it deters many from doing so. For those that it does not deter, it is an opportunity to put them in jail and get them off the street. ”

The federal sentences for cocaine is 10 to life, if I’m not mistaken. How is that working out so far?

Apr 10, 2019, 17:35

There is still no evidence that this is not working- even if it is not 100% effective. 
It is pretty effective for the people sitting behind bars...

Additionally - Possession is different as there are limits which would classify someone as a dealer.
A gun is a gun, even if it is just one. 


Apr 10, 2019, 18:42

The point is that the penalties for drug trafficking is as harsh as it is for murder, and it still does not stop drug trafficking. In fact, drug trafficking is on the increase. If that is the case, how would a 20 year sentence for manufacturing of guns help?

Apr 10, 2019, 19:14

The point is, if you make guns illegal,  only the criminals will have them....and the "Police" will be the only ones to protect us. They can't even apply traffic laws! Look at the taxi's obeying the laws??? WTF.

If 2 of the people in the Christchurch mosk had rifles, I bet a lot less people got killed on that dreadful day.

We don't have a gun problem, we have  a people problem. When was the last mass shooting in Switzerland?

Society is focusing on the wrong things. The more you try to control people, the more you lose control.


And Snark, you want to ban knives too? No more steak for you...only chicken. 

All we should actually do is get rid of stupid people...Arthur Dent was horrified when he learned the truth...I say it's about time!:angel:


Apr 10, 2019, 19:14

The point is, if you make guns illegal,  only the criminals will have them....and the "Police" will be the only ones to protect us. They can't even apply traffic laws! Look at the taxi's obeying the laws??? WTF.

If 2 of the people in the Christchurch mosk had rifles, I bet a lot less people got killed on that dreadful day.

We don't have a gun problem, we have  a people problem. When was the last mass shooting in Switzerland?

Society is focusing on the wrong things. The more you try to control people, the more you lose control.


And Snark, you want to ban knives too? No more steak for you...only chicken. 

All we should actually do is get rid of stupid people...Arthur Dent was horrified when he learned the truth...I say it's about time!:angel:


Apr 10, 2019, 19:50

Draad, so now you want to arm the Muslims?   Hell, why not throw in some free Jihad training at the Mosk's

Apr 11, 2019, 03:50

All of this comes back to my remark that all this shyte is down to a fucked up society and not down to fucked up gun laws, guns, knives, bombs, cars, booze, etc.

Thanks for all the information on guns, however, I couldn't be bothered reading all of it, it's enough for me to know that the choice of mass shooters is an automatic weapon. So let's say I agree with you on your above comment.. but then you and Draad just leave it at that and offer no solution. 

When was the last time the UK and Australia experienced a mass shooting as compared to say the USA? 

Do you believe NZ has it wrong in banning automatic and semi-automatic weapons?

Apr 11, 2019, 06:49

Shark  they arm themselves ...and trust me they will be armed next time. They should have the right to protect themselves against extremists...just like we should.

Laws are just as good as they can be enforced. We cannot leave our well being in the hands of government. 

Denny, when last was there a mass shooting in Switzerland?

Apr 12, 2019, 06:21

Tell me, would you apply the Swedish model universally?

Apr 12, 2019, 10:55

No, it can only work within a lawful society. They actually don't need the guns. 

In a lawless society, its a good thing that gun sales is thoroughly regulated. I'm against a total ban. A law is only as good as it can be enforced. 

 
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