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Young pop guns fire blanks...weaknesses exposed

Started by Mozart68 REPLIES1,235 VIEWS· 07 Mar 2015, 18:24
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Mar 2015, 18:24
#1
07 Mar 2015, 18:24#1

This side lacks experience, with 3 relatively untested batsmen in the top 6. It also lacks a credible 5th bowler. The CWC will be decided as much be those weaknesses as by the brilliance of Amla, AB and Steyn.

 

 

We now know the Indian thrashing was no fluke....the side as a whole is weak under pressure. We eschewed the opportunity to lure back Kallis for one last run at glory....that horse has long since bolted. But we need to lose one of our 3 young bats and add a bowler.

 

Bring in Philander for the frozen de Kock. This is no place for a boy. Start with Rossouw or hell, start with Philander he is much more likely to make some runs than de Kock.

 

And forget about the JP Duminy fifth bowler notion. Were it not for the run out and Duminy being withdrawn he was about to be destroyed. He simply doesn't have enough guile and deception to bowl against big hitters with their eye in.

 

As I said before, thrashing the weak non combative WI team really gave us a false sense of our talents. Time to get real.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Mar 2015, 18:53
#2
07 Mar 2015, 18:53#2
 Yep not getting Kallis back was a blunder. Also Graeme Smith actually.
KAllis solves the problem of solidity and the fith bowler.
I also agree re the big wins we had - they were no preparation for this match. Too many soft dismissals re guys going for glory too early. We did not have a huge score to get!
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
07 Mar 2015, 20:42
#3
07 Mar 2015, 20:42#3
De Kock got out to one of the best deliveries of the day. Still, that's why you don't send in #4 or #5 batsmen to open, because you need someone who can handle these scorchers. De Kock clearly can't.

We might as well open with Faf, he's been facing the opening bowling anyway thanks to De Kock's blundering and he is technically sound enough to open. I'd rather open with Faf than Rossouw.

Amla, Faf and AB were the only batsmen who looked comfortable out there. Amla was unlucky to get a ball that both swung and kept low.

Not sure why Rossouw came in at 4, or why he flung the bat around with the Proteas needing less than 5 an over with 7 wickets in hand. I guess he now knows he wasn't playing Ireland again.

Miller is a nice hitter for a flat track, but his technical deficiencies were clear today against proper swing bowling. He didn't have a clue what he was doing out there. Even Abbott looked more technically sound.

Duminy tossed his wicket away. AB perhaps too, although it was a tough situation to manage. Neither Morkel nor Tahir (as we saw) would have been able to give him much support.

The worst though for me is AB saying it was his fault for not motivating the team. Look, the Proteas are not children. They're highly paid professional sportsmen representing their country at a World Cup, the most significant event in their sport of choice and something few players get to experience, many only once in their lifetimes.

If these guys, at a WORLD CUP, need a pep talk from the captain before every game to get them interested in competing, then get their sorry asses on the first flight home and send some real competitors over.
AG
AgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
07 Mar 2015, 22:07
#4
07 Mar 2015, 22:07#4
You can't use one game as proof that Duminy is not a capable bowler, ALL bowlers have a bad day at the office once in a while and unfortunately JP's was against Pakistan. What it did show though was that in a bad situation we managed to find the overs. Not a great day for The Proteas but hopefully they'll learn from this and  improve. Rather learn through and peak late then peak early and get complacent
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Mar 2015, 22:14
#5
07 Mar 2015, 22:14#5
 I see were are still ahead of Pakistan on the table. Should end second in group ?
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
07 Mar 2015, 23:20
#6
07 Mar 2015, 23:20#6
 Yep, provided we win our remaining match we'll remain in second..... em earlier huge victories give us a superior NRR to the Pakis .
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Mar 2015, 00:34
#7
08 Mar 2015, 00:34#7

De Kock can't open. We could drop him to number 6 if AB doesn't want to keep....but it's very late for that. Could he score at number 6....there has to be a lot of doubt. And if we keep him one of Miller or Rossouw need to go to find a balanced attack.

 

 

We need 5 real bowlers....Duminy can be used for a short burst but for him to have to bowl 10 overs seems hugely dangerous 

AG
AgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
08 Mar 2015, 01:21
#8
08 Mar 2015, 01:21#8
The problem is we don't really have a true thorough-bred all rounder, we've been spoilt in the past with the likes of Kallis, Klusener and co.
So we have to take a hit on either the batting or bowling, currently I'm fine with Duminy to fulfill that role but in a match where we need another specialist bowler then I'd be fine for Parnell to come in...where's all our all rounders gone though?
Agreed on De Kock, I said a couple days ago to give him one more chance, which he truly messed against Pakistan...he's seriously talented though, I want him in the team even if it's lower down the order
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
08 Mar 2015, 01:29
#9
08 Mar 2015, 01:29#9

Moz, I hate to say it but your calls have been on the money all along. Faf might as well open, let's face it with the kid going for small chips Faf is facing the new ball anyway. 

JP as you've said is not a fifth bowling option, I'd go with 4 quicks and Tahir and if the kid has to be dropped so be it. The youngsters are not ready.


For the time being I am gutted.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
08 Mar 2015, 20:46
#10
08 Mar 2015, 20:46#10
 We were crap as we were against India. Saying our youngsters were exposed is a load of rubbish. Miller, de Kock and Rossouw have already proved themselves as bats as has JP as a bowler.
de Kock is in crap form that's cricket. It has stuff all to do with his ability.
JP had 3 sixes hit off him on a rugby field. He actually bowled well. His first over went for 4.
We have 4 thirty plus year olds in our batting order saying we lack experience is utter rubbish.
The side is right just as it is. Open with Rossouw and bat de Kock at 7. Philander for Abbott although Abbott has found form so I'd be happy with him being retained.
de Kock got a blinder of a ball as did Miller. 
Rossouw and JP threw their wickets away and AB should have farmed the strike more with his tail.
It was a poor show and it's difficult to pin point why or what is wrong with the side given how good they are on paper
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
08 Mar 2015, 20:48
#11
08 Mar 2015, 20:48#11
Spot on APD JP has and average of 5 per over over many years of spin bowling. Being hit for 3 sixes in one over on a rugby field does not define him.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Mar 2015, 03:11
#12
09 Mar 2015, 03:11#12
 JP can be a change bowler....not the 5th bowler, that is if we want to win

And here are the 3 young bats against the only decent teams we have faced this year and even in these examples not under the pressure they will experience in the knockout phases:

                  Srl.    NZ.    I    P
De Kock.      66.     11.   7.   0
Miller.           4.      14.   22.  0
Rossouw.      16.     2.     -    6
A total of 148 in 10 innings....Rossouw was not out once. An average of 15. One succesful innings among all three in one more game than the whole knockouts Houston we have a problem.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
09 Mar 2015, 10:42
#13
09 Mar 2015, 10:42#13
 Yes, you cannot discard a player because of one poor match/innings. Problem is that it was in a match that really counted. The one match of the last ten matches that they played in, where they had to show their stuff. As we said some time ago. Two centuries against a useless WI bowling attack counts for bugger all when you fold against Pakistan. 
The argument about the small field counts for bugger all. We batted in the exact same field. It is not as if we had a big outfield and Pakistan a small one. 
I also do not buy AB's argument that he failed the side because he "should have motivated the guys better". Problem is that he is almost the captain by default and, brilliant as he is, he is unfortunately not a good captain. My money would be on Amla to be captain. Just because the rest of the world has different captains for the test and ODI side does not mean that we have to follow suit. Unfortunately it would be a disaster to change the captaincy at this stage. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Mar 2015, 12:26
#14
09 Mar 2015, 12:26#14

Those stats mean nothing.....for a start there is nothing special in the Pakistan or Indian bowling attack.......we failed as a side, it had stuff all to do with the young guns.

 

The Pakistan and Indian seamers are no better than the WI's ones......pretty average at best.......we just failed batting against average attacks.

 

I am not interested in what happened against Sri Lanka and NZ in warm up games that does not come into the equation.

 

Against India Miller was caught on the boundary with a one handed catch.....it was a great shot......he was hardly beaten......he was beaten against Pakistan with a great Yorker, which would have beaten the likes of AB or Amla

 

As for Rossouw, he was caught on the boundary playing a poor ball down leg, he was hardly beaten.

 

de Kock has failed in both innings, but his ball against Pakistan was a pearl.

 

Miller and Rossouw have not come close to failing.......both are class acts up to the task.

 

As for JP, his bowling record speaks for itself and there is no reason in the world he cant bowl 10 overs.

 

A career average of 5 per over confirms that......its not like he is a new kid on the block.

 

 

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
09 Mar 2015, 12:30
#15
09 Mar 2015, 12:30#15
 Stats apparently means a lot only when it suits your argument, i.e. Duminy's 5 rpo and Miller's average at 5 shooting up after two centuries............
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Mar 2015, 12:37
#16
09 Mar 2015, 12:37#16

Um wake up you idiot......I'm talking stats over a period of time, not in 4 matches where 2 of them were warm up games you idiot.

 

I look at JP over his career, not one bloody match where Moz is beating his chest telling us he is right about JP as a bowler......bullshit, is average is 5 rpo over his career, being smashed for three 6's in one over does not define him as a bowler......nor does Miller getting caught out on the boundary by a one handed catch against Indian and being beaten by a great yorker against Pakistan define him as a bat.

 

What I was saying about Miller was that he is far better than the ignorance you had I believe.....I showed you up for the crap you speak.

 

Miller has rubbed your nose in it.....you got him wrong

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Mar 2015, 15:43
#17
09 Mar 2015, 15:43#17
Same old stuff Dave....failure isn't failure. Has somebody explained to you that the first object of competition is to win?
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Mar 2015, 15:58
#18
09 Mar 2015, 15:58#18

Yep and I know full well the side as a whole failed it was not down to an individual or two who happened to be young.

 

The SA side is laden with older players.....Amla, Faf, AB, JP, Philander, Morkel, Steyn and Tahir are all old/older......that's 72% of our side.......our failure has little to do with the youngsters......if age was to blame, we would have to lay the blame with the 72% of the side who have the experience  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Mar 2015, 17:20
#19
09 Mar 2015, 17:20#19
 Nonsense nonsense....the three experienced players totalled 345 runs in those games at an average of 34.5. It was the failure of the pop guns that lost these matches.
Average of 34.5 vs an average of 15. Say no more.

Amla.        46.       -         22.        38
Faf.           18.       8.        55.        27
AB              -         24.      30.         77

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
09 Mar 2015, 18:06
#20
09 Mar 2015, 18:06#20
 Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11613 RE: Young pop guns fire blanks...weaknesses exposed
March 09, 2015, 12:37:02

Um wake up you idiot......I'm talking stats over a period of time, not in 4 matches where 2 of them were warm up games you idiot.

 

I look at JP over his career, not one bloody match where Moz is beating his chest telling us he is right about JP as a bowler......bull[removed], is average is 5 rpo over his career, being smashed for three 6's in one over does not define him as a bowler......nor does Miller getting caught out on the boundary by a one handed catch against Indian and being beaten by a great yorker against Pakistan define him as a bat.

 

What I was saying about Miller was that he is far better than the ignorance you had I believe.....I showed you up for the crap you speak.

 

Miller has rubbed your nose in it.....you got him wrong


  • 0 Likes

No he hasn't. His last three performances has supported my view that the two centuries were outliers.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Mar 2015, 18:42
#21
09 Mar 2015, 18:42#21

Oh what utter rubbish there are more than 3 experienced players in the side....an average of 38 and 27 for Amla and Faf is hardly winning material.

 

Vlag you are speaking shit again......his overall average has increased since he batted at 5 exposing you for the ignorant fool you are....but wait for it lets exclude the centuries he made......because hey ho it makes so much sense......geez talk about thick  

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
09 Mar 2015, 18:55
#22
09 Mar 2015, 18:55#22
 One day, if you are lucky, you will understand averages and the influence of outliers.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Mar 2015, 18:59
#23
09 Mar 2015, 18:59#23

One certainty is that I know exactly what an average entails and Millers average has shot through the roof while he has batted at 5 - FACT and with it came the exposure of an ignorant old fool.

 

As I said, Miller will continue to improve and his overall average will slip into the 40's in the very near future........and I will continue to remind you what an ignorant fool you are.

 

Egg - face - egg  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Mar 2015, 19:34
#24
09 Mar 2015, 19:34#24
Put it this way I know enough mathematics to prefer 34 to 15. That's the difference between a total of 350 and a total of 150....setting aside number11.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
09 Mar 2015, 20:15
#25
09 Mar 2015, 20:15#25
 Saffex, just for you:

"In statistics, an outlier is an observation point that is distant from other observations.[1] An outlier may be due to variability in the measurement or it may indicate experimental error; the latter are sometimes excluded from the data set.[2]

Outliers can occur by chance in any distribution, but they are often indicative either of measurement error or that the population has a heavy-tailed distribution. In the former case one wishes to discard them or use statistics that are robust to outliers, while in the latter case they indicate that the distribution has high kurtosis and that one should be very cautious in using tools or intuitions that assume a normal distribution. A frequent cause of outliers is a mixture of two distributions, which may be two distinct sub-populations, or may indicate 'correct trial' versus 'measurement error'; this is modeled by a mixture model.

In most larger samplings of data, some data points will be further away from the sample mean than what is deemed reasonable."


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Mar 2015, 00:27
#26
10 Mar 2015, 00:27#26
 Vlag I am not interested in any variables other than exactly what an average stands for and what a batsmans average is in a certain position. It's black and white.....I did not even bother reading your meaningless shit.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Mar 2015, 00:30
#27
10 Mar 2015, 00:30#27
Moz and I know for a fact that our side is dominated by older players. The team failed against India and Pakistan therefore by deduction our senior players failed and that is a fact.
I except the best bats in the game to score at least 15 to 20 more than a lad batting at 5 or 6.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Mar 2015, 01:00
#28
10 Mar 2015, 01:00#28
No deduction needed in cricket, Dave so your usual fantasies don't apply....look at the numbers, they tell the whole story. The pop guns fired blanks. 
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
10 Mar 2015, 01:36
#29
10 Mar 2015, 01:36#29
Hell if it wasn't for the older brigade we would've struggled to reach 140 . Dawie, why's it so difficult for you to ever admit that you could be wrong ?
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Mar 2015, 01:46
#30
10 Mar 2015, 01:46#30
Ah so Moz it's down to the 28% of the team comprising the youngsters that we are failing......and you expect people to believe that shit in a team game like cricket. Do you expect Amla to score 15 runs more than Miller per game......simple yes or no will do?
Blob what the hell do you know about anything. A post from you brings on a yawn.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Mar 2015, 02:59
#31
10 Mar 2015, 02:59#31
In this case the numbers are dispositive.....pop guns flopped in every tough match so far this year. But watch those young guns beat up on the UAE.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Mar 2015, 10:32
#32
10 Mar 2015, 10:32#32
 Saffex
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 11640RE: Young pop guns fire blanks...weaknesses exposed 
March 10, 2015, 00:27:12 Vlag I am not interested in any variables other than exactly what an average stands for and what a batsmans average is in a certain position. It's black and white.....I did not even bother reading your meaningless [removed].


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Of course you wouldn't be interested in any variables. It doesn't suit your agenda.



SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Mar 2015, 11:04
#33
10 Mar 2015, 11:04#33
And the experienced players flopped in those very same games........our experience comprises 72% of the side  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Mar 2015, 11:05
#34
10 Mar 2015, 11:05#34
Vlagshit........a variable wont change the fact that Miller averages more batting at 5 than he does in any other position......nothing will change that fact you idiot  
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Mar 2015, 11:40
#35
10 Mar 2015, 11:40#35
 Nothing will change the fact that Miller has had two centuries against pop-gun bowling and then collapsed in a heap. Nothing will change the fact that Duminy collapsed with the ball, when the pressure was on, either.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Mar 2015, 11:46
#36
10 Mar 2015, 11:46#36

Ah so Miller has collapsed in a heap being caught on the boundary at the end of an innings and getting out to a great yorker.........do you actually know anything about cricket or do you just hide behind meaningless variables.......my guess is that you don't know which end of the bat to hold.

 

So 3 balls define JP as a bowler do they.......WOW  

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Mar 2015, 12:13
#37
10 Mar 2015, 12:13#37
 Look at the facts. Whether he got caught on the boundary or whether he was clean bowled, he was out for peanuts. You want to qualify his poor batting against Palistan but you are not prepared to qualify his "brilliant" batting when he got his two centuries?
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Mar 2015, 12:24
#38
10 Mar 2015, 12:24#38

Poor batting against Pakistan......that just confirms how stupid you are?

 

We all know Miller is a class act, you are just smarting for being exposed for your profoundly ignorant call on him.......but don't worry, I'll keep reminding you as the months go by and Miller's average keeps climbing.

 

Exposed and smarting.....live with it you dunce  

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Mar 2015, 12:48
#39
10 Mar 2015, 12:48#39
 "Poor batting against Pakistan......" Exactly, unless you do not consider this as poor:
DA Millerlbw b Rahat Ali01713000.0015.5 85.7 mph, unleashes a wonderful yorker on middle which Miller appears to be late on. Looked out as soon as it struck really. Miller wants the review though. Replays show this went on to hit the back pad, so that may hurt his chances for this being given, but it is red all the way down, so Miller has to go, and South Africa are now five down with still quite a bit to do 77/5He faced 16 balls and then went out for a duck with the 17th ball. Brilliant
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Mar 2015, 14:14
#40
10 Mar 2015, 14:14#40
No there was nothing poor about his batting at all, he got a brilliant ball or should I quote 'wonderful yorker' to get him out you thick prick....thanks for the confirmation 
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