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FORUM / MIKES GRIPES /  Anger....do you still think Europe is the answer

Anger....do you still think Europe is the answer

Started by Mozart29 REPLIES718 VIEWS· 10 Apr 2021, 16:59
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Apr 2021, 16:59
#1
10 Apr 2021, 16:59#1

Just curious. You do so love these Brussels based bureaucrats and hate the Poms. If they can’t even manage a vaccine roll out, how can they conduct international affairs?Has the penny dropped?

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
10 Apr 2021, 18:01
#2
10 Apr 2021, 18:01#2
Well as I look at pictures of buses being petrol bombed in Belfast I think the answer is a resounding yes.
I'd also ask you to stop misrepresenting me. I never said I loved Brussels bureaucrats and I do not hate the English which I've said several times already.

Absolutely the vaccine procurement program has not been the EU's finest hour, they where too slow investing in R&D and increasing production capacity and can be fairly criticized on these grounds. The EU has never been an agile beast as it needs to consult member states before doing anything and that takes time, if it did do its own things I'm sure its critics would be shouting "hey look at the EU dictating to member states!"

Individual member states have also made mistakes in issuing what vaccines they have been received, which is not really the fault of the EU.
The bulk of the blame has to be directed at AstraZenca though who have consistently fail to deliver on agreed amount of vaccines, and not by a small margin either.

On the other hand EU members are the largest exporter of vaccine around the world, as of March 25th the EU has exported 77 million doses of the vaccine around the world including 21 million to the UK which would account for the majority of vaccines issued during its current vaccine roll out. On the other hand not a single dose of vaccine has been received by the EU from the US or UK who all but certainly have export bans in place. The EU also negotiated the best price on the vaccine. I'm sure EU citizens would have happily allowed the EU to pay more if it meant getting the vaccine quicker but hey if Donald Trump had got the best price I'm sure you would singing it from the rafters as a brilliant deal.
On the other hand, had member states not asked the EU to take control of vaccine procurement the bigger richer states like France and Germany might have the vast bulk of the vaccine kept to themselves and the vaccine rollout in smaller states like mine would be in a worse position.

The EU is by far the worlds most successful trading block, with by far the most trade deals signed. Why would we want to away from that, and please no nonsense about the EU banning tea. In the Brexit negotiations it was by the more successful of the two sides in the negotiations. Over the years its invested heavily in infrastructure projects in Ireland, for example my local bus station was co-funded by the EU.

Looking at the absolutely sh*t show that has been Brexit. Every predicted disaster of Brexit is now occurring, Project Fear has turned to Project Reality and I doubt anyone can name a single tangible benefit too it, other than parroting some mindless slogan. Why would I want a piece of that? 

The vaccine rollout will eventually get done here. My grandmother has got both shots and my mother has got her first vaccine jab confirmed for this day week. Our economy has held up quite well and EU membership on the whole has been massively beneficial to us. Why would we jeopardize that.


SH
sharkbokCaptain23,205 posts
10 Apr 2021, 18:38
#3
10 Apr 2021, 18:38#3
Europe was very slow initially - but they are about to increase its vaccine rollout significantly over the next 3 months, and might catch up with the UK. Germanys own vaccine product will be ready soon as well- using mRna which appears to be better than the Astrazeneca/Jonson&Jonson ones which are both linked to blood clotting. 
The UK supply is now mostly being used as a 2nd jab. 
only 100,000 new jabs per day, which would be around 3 million in 1 month for April. 

It was unclear if the US were meant to ship vaccine to the EU, or if all production was intended for the US first. The UK has at least shipped some vaccine overseas, but America is keeping 100% of it. 
AstraZeneca is taking most of the blame, but other vaccine companies appear to be breaching their contracts with the EU as well- and are also behind their forecasted production levels. The EU like the UK paid in advance- and that same money could have been invested in more locally created vaccines. 
SH
sharkbokCaptain23,205 posts
10 Apr 2021, 18:44
#4
10 Apr 2021, 18:44#4
@Stav, what is your take on Biden's new proposed minimum international corporate tax thresholds of around 20%?
The goal is to ensure the country from where the sale is derived, is paid the tax by preventing the option to shop around for a "much" lower rate. 
While Ireland's corporate tax rate is officially 12.5%, we all know that the global tech/pharma companies are only paying about 1% to the Irish government- thereby undercutting the other EU states to pocket their tax into the Irish economy. 

It seems that the US will charge the difference in tax if a country does not meet the minimum agreed global tax. As it is, it seems the US will charge about 7% on top of the 20%, so that the US government collects money from international sales- as well as those in the US. 
Biden may have originated from Ireland, but he looks like he is the person that is going to end tax havens - and in doing so even the playing field.
Some companies may continue operations in Ireland, but the value add of Ireland will be tested without the tax reduction incentive. 
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
10 Apr 2021, 19:00
#5
10 Apr 2021, 19:00#5

"@Stav, what is your take on Biden's new proposed minimum international corporate tax thresholds of around 20%?"

Commies are gonna do Commie sh!t 

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,205 posts
10 Apr 2021, 19:22
#6
10 Apr 2021, 19:22#6

@Draad, you are a simpleton.
A government has to collect tax, it has been like that since day one. Someone has to pay tax. It is fine, as long as the tax rate is not too high, and people pay an equal percentage of their earnings.   

Bidens is delivering on his promise to make sure that everyone pays a fair amount of tax, even the rich. 

The richest people in the US are the ones shafting America with their offshoring of jobs, and tax evasion. 
Biden's made in America laws will ensure more jobs are retained in the US. 

Biden will probably only increase corporate tax by a few per cent (lower than 28%). 
The only good thing Trump did was lower the corporate tax rate. 
Your hero the great Trump negotiator just started trade wars around the world, but now with Biden on board (an adult), an agreement looks like it will happen.
The richest countries in the world will be very happy with this tax- including anyone in the US that have any brain. 

It will benefit the richest countries greatly, as the tax money will be collected by their governments, not tax-havens. 

In June 2019, Biden named Amazon and said no company making billions in profits should pay a lower tax rate than firefighters and teachers.

Biden said last week Amazon was one of 91 Fortune 500 companies that "use various loopholes where they pay not a single solitary penny in federal income tax," in sharp contrast to middle-class families paying over 20% tax rates.   

Economy & BusinessAmazon CEO Bezos Endorses US Corporate Tax IncreaseBiden said last week Amazon was one of 91 Fortune 500 companies that "use various loopholes where they pay not a single solitary penny in federal income tax"By Reuters
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Apr 2021, 20:11
#7
10 Apr 2021, 20:11#7

Actually it is a dumb idea which punishes the honest and rewards the    Cheats. And it increases complexity. It’s based on the Alternative Minimum Tax concept where every tax payer in the US has to calculate his taxes 2 ways and pay the greater.


It certainly is great revenue for the lawyers but will simply make corporate taxes more complex. Taxes were trending up under Trump because income was going up. Increase the rates and income avoidance will send them back down.


The old Democratic playbook about to be trotted out and disproven yet again. Governments don’t create wealth, businesses do....governments waste what they get.


Close the loopholes and keep tax rates down. And by the way it’s not Biden’s idea. He hasn’t had one in about 10 years.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Apr 2021, 20:15
#8
10 Apr 2021, 20:15#8

Tell me again Anger....what was the GNP result in the EU vs the US last year.....and tell me again what % of EU citizens vs US citizens have been vaccinated.


SH
sharkbokCaptain23,205 posts
10 Apr 2021, 20:45
#9
10 Apr 2021, 20:45#9
I don't mind if the US keeps the same corporate tax rate as the Trump era at around 22%

The main issue for other countries is being sure that they collect sales tax from these companies, in the way they do for local companies.  A company like Amazon can undercut local prices if they do not have to pay the same tax. all while Amazon trucks break the roads of these countries.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
10 Apr 2021, 21:10
#10
10 Apr 2021, 21:10#10

"@Draad, you are a simpleton.

A government has to collect tax, it has been like that since day one"
No, it hasn't...taxes are for the serfs. 
ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
10 Apr 2021, 21:11
#11
10 Apr 2021, 21:11#11
Tell me moz, are you going to say sorry for misrepresenting me?

As for your question, you wouldn't bring them them up if it wasn't in the US's favor. But equally I can bring up the excess mortality rates from Covid which shows the US did substantially worse than the EU did.
From my own countries perspectives from a lives saved perspective , Ireland merely did okay, middle of the road but notably better than the US and UK.  For sure mistakes where made by my  countries government that cost lives, but compared to the absolutely imbeciles that where Trump and Johnson they where miles better, its not even a close contest. Economically Ireland  actually grew last year, posting I believe the strongest GDP growth (if not the only growth) of any advance economy. Not boasting here, the presence of the major IT and pharmaceutical giants in Ireland played a big role in this but again if the economy here is so resilient, it show EU membership is not having negative effects economically.
When it comes to the vaccine, right now there simply isn't enough to go round. Ireland is slightly above the EU average in vaccinations right now. So i ask you this, say Ireland was not a member of the EU and was forced to go it alone on the vaccines, do you think Ireland on its own given he size of its population/economy would of been able to secure more vaccines outside of the EU than being in it?
SH
sharkbokCaptain23,205 posts
10 Apr 2021, 22:51
#12
10 Apr 2021, 22:51#12

@Mozart, the US has also been lucky as the UK variant is only starting to become the dominant one in the US.

The UK and EU got hammered on the second wave by this variant which is twice as infectious.
So these places had to go through winter with the UK variant as the dominant variant. 


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Apr 2021, 23:36
#13
10 Apr 2021, 23:36#13

But have I misrepresented you Anger....handsome is as handsome does and from what I can gather you always find excuses for Europe and condemn the UK. If I’m wrong and you now think the UK is as viable as the EU, I apologize,

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Apr 2021, 23:39
#14
10 Apr 2021, 23:39#14

True Shark, but unlucky in having huge cities peopled by a high  percentage of obese people. But of course lucky in having Trump without whose contempt for bureaucracy we would never have gotten the vaccines so fast.

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
11 Apr 2021, 00:08
#15
11 Apr 2021, 00:08#15

What excuses for the EU?

I just said the EU was too slow in investing in R&D and increasing production capacity in regards to the vaccine. Had they done so the EU as a whole would be in a better position regards its vaccine rollout. Its a mistake that  has and will cost lives and money.

I've defended the EU in relation to some of the absolute nonsense arguments leveled against it by Brexiteers, drivel like the EU wanting to ban tea or the EU banning bendy banana's but I've never said the EU is without faults. It didn't exactly handle the migrant crisis a few years back particularly well either.

I've also been high critical of the UK government in both its handling of both Brexit and the pandemic as well as the bulk of the UK media who serve as little more than mouth pieces for the government, but I have nothing against the average UK citizen. I actually feel sorry for them, particularity those who wanted to remain in the EU and those who conned into voting for Brexit on the basis of lies some of whom have now realizing that very vote has put their jobs in jeopardy. I also have family and friends there who I don't wish to see being negatively affected.

The UK is a viable country, just outside of the EU its diminished compared to what it was as an EU member.




BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
11 Apr 2021, 12:41
#16
11 Apr 2021, 12:41#16

Stav is a half baked ignoramus that supports the globalist rule and destruction of Europe. I

I have posted numerous articles, clips by top medical people speaking out force fully about the very serious dangers of these so called "Vaccines". One of the top vaccine experts in the world says they are deadly. Fact is they have already killed thousands and made others very sick. I posted stats from the UK.

So the blundering inefficient EU blundering about AstraZeneca vaccine  could be a great blessing.


BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
11 Apr 2021, 12:46
#17
11 Apr 2021, 12:46#17
Hundreds Muslims in London warn Jews that their day to be beheaded by Muslims is coming, Like the Jews of Khaybar - "Khaibar Khaibar ya yahud, jaish Muhammed sa-ya'ud" (In Arabic)This is not Iran, This is London. Is this what "multiculturalism" looks like?
Hundreds Islamists took to the streets of London shouting against Jews in Arabic.
They shouted an Arabic verse from the Quran to remind the Jews of Muhammad and his army's slaughter and mass beheading of the Jews of Khaibar, after they had surrendered.
"Khaibar Khaibar ya yahud, jaish Muhammed sa-ya'ud" (In Arabic)
Just remember London has a muslim mayor, Over half of people living in London are foreigners and London is now known as Londonistan.That oaks is how EU Globalist destroy a nation. The muslims call it Hijira, jihad through immigration.Idiots like Stav support all this.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
11 Apr 2021, 12:47
#18
11 Apr 2021, 12:47#18


ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
11 Apr 2021, 13:01
#19
11 Apr 2021, 13:01#19

Beeno you really should seek professional help.

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,205 posts
11 Apr 2021, 13:12
#20
11 Apr 2021, 13:12#20

Beeno needs to be taken to the vet and put down. There is no other option...

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Apr 2021, 18:43
#21
11 Apr 2021, 18:43#21

The EU wanted to an tea? Nope the EU wanted to ban tea kettles on another of their loopy Global Warming excursions. See, something that sounds absurd is suddenly completely plausible.

The EU.....life lived by bureaucrats.

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
11 Apr 2021, 20:32
#22
11 Apr 2021, 20:32#22

Didn't you bring up banning tea or tea breaks in another thread. No the EU does not want to ban tea kettles (also pretty sure there is no such thing as tea kettles there's just kettle), that's a dishonest misrepresentation and you know it.

As for bureaucrats, the UK has had to hire way more because of leaving the EU and have to deal with far more red tape, but anyway, that's like reality not the fantasy land supporters of Brexit occupy.


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Apr 2021, 03:08
#23
12 Apr 2021, 03:08#23

 A ban on super-strength kettles has been put on hold amid fears that it could drive Britain to leave the EU, it has been reported.

The European Commission had been planning a number of measures to ban high energy appliances for environmental reasons. However it has now quietly shelved the ban due to concerns that backlash in Britain could drive the country towards a Brexit, The Financial Times reports.

The ban would have applied to a number of high powered household appliances which are much loved in the UK, including kettles and toasters. A senior EU official has reportedly said that the commission has paused plans to introduce the rules to be “sensitive to the British obsession with water kettles.”

.............

Think about an apology Anger .

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
12 Apr 2021, 11:39
#24
12 Apr 2021, 11:39#24
Your getting closer to the truth moz but you're note quite there. Notice it says super-strength kettles, aka energy inefficient kettles not all kettles.
What the EU was considering was not necessarily a ban on those type of kettles though it was a possible option. Those kettles may also have been allowed to be continued to be sold and would just require an energy rating label or that their their durability is increased so they have longer life spans to cut out waste.

Even if a ban came into place, people who already own them could continue to use them. They just would no longer be able to buy new ones.

You may not care for global warming but the majority of people now a days think its a good thing but if you don't care for that perhaps you will care to note that similar eco regulations from the EU have saved EU (and UK) citizens hundreds of pounds annually via electricity savings (. Damn the EU and their regulations saving me money!
No apology because I said you did accurately represent the EU's position.But speaking of which, what about one for misrepresenting my views towards the UK?


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Apr 2021, 15:35
#25
12 Apr 2021, 15:35#25
‘Your (sic) getting closer to the truth’.....you almost did it! Within inches of being persuaded by facts, you hardened your heart and made a feeble excuse. Still a work in progress.
ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
12 Apr 2021, 16:38
#26
12 Apr 2021, 16:38#26
LOL at the playground antics. You said "Nope the EU wanted to ban tea kettles", all kettles are capable of boiling water to make tea, in effect you where saying the EU wanted to ban kettles.

If you wanted to be fair and honest, what you should of said "the EU where looking into potentially banning/regulating energy inefficient electrical appliances"

You could then argue the pro and cons of such regulation.Pro's such as the end consumer being better informed on energy requirements of an electrical device, environmental benefits and cost savings to the users of these appliances.
A con would be waiting 30 seconds longer for your cup of tea.

But you have consistently shown not to fair and honest (or possibly your just lazy) so I wouldn't expect you to do so.You will happily keep parroting propaganda because it suits your world view.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Apr 2021, 04:42
#27
13 Apr 2021, 04:42#27

Well there you go....you claim the EU never wanted to ban kettles...I demonstrate they did. And you divert into a discussion of whether it’s kettles or tea kettles and whether it’s all kettles, which I never claimed.

A more honest response would simply have been to say ...’gosh, that news to me.....clearly there was thought given to banning some tea kettles’. 

But instead you tried to create your own truth through semantics...standard tactics of the new Left,

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
13 Apr 2021, 13:49
#28
13 Apr 2021, 13:49#28
Moz talks about honesty but in another thread claimed the EU where trying to deny people in the UK from making tea.
When I asked you in that thread how does the regulating kettle wattage amount to denying UK citizens tea you didn't respond.
Then in this thread you claim the EU wasn't trying to ban tea but ban tea kettles which could be literally taken as meaning all kettles because there isn't a single working kettle in the world not capable of boiling water to make tea. Well if it can't its a pretty shitty kettle.
In the previous thread, I already brought up the EU regulating kettles, so I clearly already knew about this topic, so nope wasn't news to me.
Misrepresent the other side via vagueness and exaggeration... typical tactic of the hard right.








DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
13 Apr 2021, 14:17
#29
13 Apr 2021, 14:17#29

Learning to spot it, we are?

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Apr 2021, 00:41
#30
14 Apr 2021, 00:41#30

Tea Kettle Gate?

— END OF THREAD —

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