Fact Check on Ukranian Ethnic Cleansing Claim

In order to pursue its expansionist goals in Ukraine, Russia also unleashed information warfare against Ukraine simultaneously with its military aggression. Moreover, it was the “pretext” based on disinformation and falsehoods which Putin used to launch his invasion of Ukraine on 24 February 2022.

On 24 February 2022, Putin stated that the goals of the full-scale war, which he calls a “special operation,” are to “protect the population from genocide as well as denazify and demilitarise Ukraine together with the protection of those people who were abused and subjected to genocide by the Kyiv regime for eight years.” Putin made similar statements at the session of the Human Rights Council in December 2021, saying that “what is happening in Donbas now very much reminds us of genocide.” Russian MFA spokesperson, Maria Zakharova, also made a statement of similar content on 18 February 2022: “The situation [in Donbass] does not resemble a genocide. No, it does not resemble a genocide… It is a genocide…”

The claim that Ukraine was committing genocide in Donbas has become a main propaganda message not only for the Kremlin and Kremlin-run media but in other pro-Russian sources as well. The aim of this disinformation is to proclaim Russia’s actions in Ukraine as legitimate and completely disregard any Kremlin-directed blame.

In fact, there is not a single international document or conclusion of any relevant international organisation whatsoever that would confirm Moscow’s allegations. That Putin and the Kremlin are unable to prove that genocide indeed took place in Donbas is confirmed by the fact that Russia has never officially appealed to the UN Genocide Prevention Office or any other international institutions over the issues of genocide and ethnic cleansing. Moreover, Russia did not launch an inter-state lawsuit against Ukraine until the summer of 2021.

On 22 July 2021, Russia lodged inter-state application Number 36958/21 against Ukraine at the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR). The Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms grants each member state the right to lodge an application about another member state’s violation of the Convention and its protocols. Russia took legal action against Ukraine in 2021 within the scope of this right.

Russia’s application includes multiple alleged violations and blames Kyiv for killing civilians during the 2014 Euromaidan protests as well as for killings and abductions in the following period, a restriction on the use of the Russian language and attacks against Russian embassies and consulates. Of note is that Russia did not press genocide and ethnic cleansing charges against Ukraine in that application as well which indicates that Moscow did not possess evidence to prove such an allegation. Therefore, Moscow’s decision to speak about genocide and ethnic cleansing both before 2014 and amid the February 2022 invasion serves propaganda aims only.

With this application, Russia blamed Ukraine for the violation of the rights enshrined in the Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms. In particular, according to Russia’s application Ukraine violates the Convention-guaranteed right to life, the prohibition of inhuman and degrading treatment, the right to liberty and security, the right to respect private and family life, the prohibition of discrimination and the limitation on the use of the restriction of rights as well as the protection of property and the right to education.

In addition, Russia submitted an urgent request to the ECHR to impose temporary measures with the wording as follows:

• To stop the restrictions on the rights of Russian-speaking persons notably as concerns access to the use of their mother tongue in schools, the media and the internet.

• To order the Ukrainian authorities to suspend the blockade of the North Crimean Canal.

Russia requested the imposition of this urgent temporary measure under Rule 39 of the Rules of the Court. Measures under Rule 39 stipulate that when the ECHR receives an application, it may demand that the state take certain temporary measures until the court reviews the case and issues a final verdict.

The Court uses this right when there is a risk of a serious abuse of human rights before the case review is completed. However, the ECHR decided to reject Russia’s application since the situation in Donbas did not involve a serious risk of the irreparable harm of a core right of the European Convention on Human Rights.

The ECHR has not released an update about the aforementioned application since 23 July 2021. It is unknown when the proceedings will continue given the circumstances that the Court has not made any indication to this end in any statements.

Therefore, Russia has not made allegations of genocide against Ukraine. Furthermore, Russia does not have any evidence to substantiate that claim. In response to verbal allegations, Ukraine lodged a case in The Hague’s International Criminal Court (ICC). The ICC is the UN’s main judiciary authority and in line with the Rome Statute, its jurisdiction covers four types of crimes as defined by the Geneva Convention: genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes and acts of aggression. Ukraine’s case concerned Russia’s invasion of the Donbas region and Russia used alleged “genocide” by the Ukrainians against the Russian-speaking population to provide a pretext for the invasion.

The International Court of Justice (ICJ) released a preliminary decision over Ukraine’s case against Russia on 16 March 2022. The case was about Russia’s false claims about genocide and using these claims to justify its aggression against Ukraine. The court declared: “Under these circumstances, the Court considers that Ukraine has a plausible right not to be subjected to military operations by the Russian Federation for the purpose of preventing and punishing an alleged genocide on the territory of Ukraine.” The ICJ also called for the Russian Federation to “immediately suspend the military operations that it commenced on 24 February 2022 on the territory of Ukraine” and said that “the Russian Federation shall ensure that any military or irregular armed units which may be directed or supported by it, as well as any organisations and persons which may be subject to its control or direction, take no steps in the furtherance of the military operations.”

In order to qualify an event as a genocide, there must be evidence that a government or a group which are blamed for the genocide have the intent of a mass annihilation of a population. None of the international organisations which have monitored the state of human rights in the Donbas region since 2014 has confirmed a fact of such deliberate mass-killings. This is proven by reports published by the Council of Europe, the UN High Commission for Human Rights and the OSCE.

On 23 February 2022, UN Secretary General, Antonio Guterres, unequivocally stated that the situation in Donbas is not a genocide. Officials of the European Commission also do not consider the situation in Donbas as a genocide. In response to a journalist, European Commission spokesperson, Peter Stano, stated: “This is what Bashar al-Assad does in Syria, where half a million people were killed. Nothing similar has happened in Donbas.”

The international community agrees that Russia, which invaded the territory of a sovereign nation, is an aggressor in the Russian war against Ukraine. The United Nation’s General Assembly session on 2 March 2022, where a resolution about Russia’s aggression was adopted, is of particular importance. The resolution, entitled Aggression Against Ukraine, demands that “the Russian Federation immediately, completely and unconditionally withdraw all of its military forces from the territory of Ukraine within its internationally recognised borders.” The resolution defines aggression as the use of armed force by a state against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another state. The resolution condemns Russia’s use of force against Ukraine starting on 24 February 2022 and it is assessed as a violation of the aims and the principles of the UN Charter as well as the resolution of 14 December 1974. The resolution expresses deep concern in regard to attacks on civilian facilities and the killing of civilians, including women, the elderly, people with special needs and children.

This UN resolution was voted in favour by 141 sovereign nations whilst only five voted against (Russia, Belarus, North Korea, Syria and Eritrea). This is yet another confirmation that only five nations join Russia’s ludicrous claims about Ukraine being governed by a Nazi regime. All of these 141 nations say that Russia, not Ukraine, is the aggressor. Of note is that the aforementioned resolution is the first of its kind adopted by the UN General Assembly in the last four decades. On 24 March 2022, the UN General Assembly also adopted another resolution as a part of its emergency session entitled Humanitarian Consequences of the Aggression Against Ukraine. The resolution demands that Russia immediately cease fighting against Ukraine and ensure the protection of civilians as well as medical and humanitarian workers. The resolution also echoes the UN Secretary General’s call for Russia to halt the military attack and come back to negotiations.

Therefore, any piece of pro-Russian disinformation that Ukraine was committing genocide in Donbas for eight years which necessitated Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and the “protection” of civilians is false.

So no credible international body has upheld the Russians’ transparent ethnic cleansing claims….instead the International Court of Justice said the Ukraine has a right not to be subjected to Russian military actions, because no ethnic cleansing has been established.

This Boer War ruse has no credibility.

The journalists on the Donbass area who wrote what they saw were denied further visas by Kyiv.

Ukraine is not the USA, only  puppet of the corrupt USA on its desire to control the Black Sea area. 

Ukraine is not the USA, only  puppet of the corrupt USA on its desire to control the Black Sea area. 

Yes because Ukraine is only fighting because the USA have told them to do so...not like their country was invaded or s omething?

"Yes because Ukraine is only fighting because the USA have told them to do so...not like their country was invaded or something?" 

Good point. Ukraine is the dirty dog for the corrupt Biden admin.We have learnt much from Mike on here over the year, lots of truth exposing these Yankee doodles. 

Did you know the USA has had nuclear weapons in Turkey in 1959.The Cuban missile crisis made USA remove then in 1963. But since then they have been re-deploying them back there. Look on the map, Turkey is just across the Black Sea from Russia.... get an education. 

Well I quoted comments from Zelensky\'s chief advisor about clearing  out all Russians within the border as it appeared in Wikipedia - hardly Russian propaganda - as well as the same chaps comment on the African Union peace mission.    Both are comments that people would associate with the Nazi's and Communists under Lenin and Stalin.

You also forget what the US Assistant of State said on video on how they pick the leaders of Ukraine after the 2014 coup.   Biden at the time met some of the people the US had in mind  - amongst others two prominent  Bandera supporters - you obviously do not know who Bandera was.   

So I would rather believe what people in leadership said they strive for and their actions.   The Azov battalion with their nazi-insignia killed thousands of Russian speaking people.  When the UN condemn the battalion as a terrorist mercenary organization involved in mass murder in Mariopol and Odessa in 2015 -  after they were reported they were reported to the UN.    They were put on the list of terrorist organizations  and the USA banned provision of arms to the Battalion.   Easy solution - the battalion was integrated into the Ukraine Army.

Since 2019 the Ukraine Government banned usage of Russian in schools - despite the fact that at least 30% of the Ukraine has Russian as home language - they banned teaching of Russian as a language in schools.   If people made a remark in Russian in a public place they were fined.   Worse - they arrested virtually all Russian-speaking members  of the Ukraine Parliament and they banned virtually all Political Parties in Ukraine as well as the Ukraine Orthodox Church to which both Ukrainians speakers and Russian Speakers belong.    Incidentally when the Ukraine government asked what happened to the arrested Members of Parliament they said they do not know what happened Stav claimed they were exchanged with prisoners of war - it just did not happen.   One wonders whether these political prisoners are still alive.   

The fact is there is a country with no constitution protecting human rights and the Ukraine at present is a totally dictatorial state  and not a democracy at all and dictatorships use things like ethnic cleansing to get rid of potential opposition.    I have seen no Russian propaganda  it might well be the case - but what I saw what have been in media with no link to Russia.    The Russians reported the other side as well.       

I doubt not that the Russians saw what is going on.in Ukraine - they did report the Asov battalion to the UN in 2015 - and they commented on it so suddenly it became Russian propaganda.    

Your comments about not having seen "no credible international body has upheld the Russian claims - so it is false.   You also claimed that there were no bio-labs in Ukraine based on USA denials.    After caught with their pants down, the US Government claimed they are helping to close down the Soviet-era bio-labs  Ukraine got independence in 1991 and no bio-labs were closed.    In fact the USA with aid money built a new biolab in Odessa.   Tulsi Gabbard claimed there are at least 26 operational bio-labs in Ukraine - is she a Russian agent as well?    Anyway in the end Under questioning by Senator Rubio under oath Deputy Secretary of State admitted that there are bio-labs in Ukraine.  She claimed in the Senate that the bio-labs are doing research of no threat to humanity - but then added that the Bide n Administration fears the Russians may get hold of the pathogens.   If it was not harmful research why the worry about the Russians getting hold of it.   Incidentally a new bio-lab was built in 2018 in Odessa funded with US AID funds  and is operated jointly by  Ukraine and the USA.

I do not like propaganda and there is plenty of it on both sides - it s always wise not to take propaganda seriously.   What comes out of in the US media  appears to me to be propaganda as well.            

Did you know the USA has had nuclear weapons in Turkey in 1959.The Cuban missile crisis made USA remove then in 1963. But since then they have been re-deploying them back there. Look on the map, Turkey is just across the Black Sea from Russia.... get an education. 

Turkey hosting US nuclear weapons is old news. 

Yes Turkey is just across the Black Sea, so what?. The Pro Russian crowd keep saying the US wants control of the Black Sea or to take over the naval base at Sevastopol but they haven't been able to present an evidence to support or this or be able to explain why the US would want to do that. 

If the US wanted a Naval base in the Black Sea they could just come to arrangement with NATO member Turkey to use Turkish ports. The sole entry point to the Black Sea is controlled by Turkey and you could argue by extension NATO. In effect NATO can make the Black Sea a pond which Russia can't enter or leave, rendering it an irrelevancy as to who actually controls it.

I do not like propaganda 

Could of fooled us Mike. 

By the way on the issue of the Ukraine in the UN there were 35 nations that did not vote.   The SA Government was one of those.   Biden sent Blinken to come to SA and change their minds on the issue.   The SA  Minister of Foreign Affairs (Mrs Pandor) gave him a lecture on lack of negotiations on the issue and when those did take place the fact that the US Government undermined it.    She sent him packing. and so did another African country he visited - I think it was Rwanda.

Since then the African Union tried to get negotiations under way between Kiev and Russia.    They sent five heads of State to Kiev and St Petersburg.    In Kiev they were insulted by the Ukraine Government and told no African countries have the right to interfere in matters concerning Europe.  This despite the fact that both Ramaphosa  and Meyer were  closely involved in negotiation of the Northern Ireland agreement. 

There were three efforts to settle the issue of Ukraine starting in 2015 when the Minsk agreement was signed that guaranteed the peaceful settlement of the civil war in Eastern Ukraine - the Donbas  Region.    Even at the time Germany and France accepted that there is no chance that the Crimea with its 85% Russian population and 10% Tartar population would become part of Ukraine again.   The Germans and French knew that Crimea had their own Parliament in terms of  the Ukraine constitution of 1991 but that went out of the window in 2014 when the USA Government funded and organized the coup.    The Crimea Parliament feared what would happen if the Civil War spread to the Crimea and the Parliament decided to hold a referendum where  94% of the voters voted to be incorporated in Russia.'   

I am going to put in here the views of the Ukraine Government on high level:-

  "On 5 April 2023, Podolyak declared that Ukraine should "completely close everything related to the Russian cultural space" in Crimea and advocated the deportation of its Russian-speaking population"

If that is not typical Nazism  - please tell me otherwise.

Then he was the main man in sabotaging the African Peace Mission: by saying the following:-

  "Mykhailo Podolyak, said in an interview that Ramaphosa and his delegation of African leaders, had no business being in their country to negotiate a peace settlement between the two countries."

Those comments are factual and ignored by the braindead on this site.   Please tell me  how the first comment does not entail ethnic cleansing.          

Stav

I cannot fool you on anything since you are already a fool and know what I wrote is true - but you will never admit it because the Ukraine propaganda is all you believe and spread.    I have proof of actual facts - you have Ukraine propaganda as the only thing applicable in this case.  

By the way I said originally there are proof of existence of bio-labs in Ukraine based on reports on the issue that the USA was involved in helping the  Ukraine Government to close down Soviet era bio-labs in Ukraine.    You and the other fools said there were no bio-labs in Ukraine.  In the end the USA admitted there were  bio-labs in Ukraine in a Senate proving I was right.   The USA did in 32 years nothing to close operating  bio-labs in Ukraine.   It also came out in the Senate Hearing that the Bio-labs in Ukraine are  not involved in dangerous research - but the USA were worried about the Russian getting hold of the pathogens developed in Ukraine    The latter story indicate the whole issue is in fact a dangerous program..   Another fact that came up was that with US AID funding a new bio-lab  was built in Odessa and completed in 2018 and is jointly operated by the Ukraine and US Governments.   So the Bio-labs are real and not Russian Disinformation.

I am not studying developments for nothing - you do not study anything - you believe the BS  spread by the Ukraine and US Governments.    I believe in no propaganda - whether Russian or anything else.

Any ideas not tying in with yours is not Russian propaganda spreading - you accuse anyone differing  from you of that.     

The OP is another example of the liberal way of thinking that do rely on self perception of their own societies.

The OP does not provide elements for a third party to build an opinion.

It summarizes the situation: no side reported genocide so no genocide happened.

That is all. Genocide is determined by the perception of an international body.

Liberalism is now set as the main standard for governance: there are liberal and illeberal countries.

It is well known that liberal societies do not commit genocide, ethnocide, ethnical cleansing, mass slaughtering. They prevent all that.

People who accept that liberal societies have been the most efficient at carrying out genocides, ethnocides, ethnical cleansings, mass slaughterings etc taking a great advantage of it are confused. It can not be.

As to Russia dismissing the charge, it is also well known that people in a liberal order are all equal under the law. Pressing a charge does not depend on the charged person. It only depends on elements to support the charge. A prosecutor does not drop charges when charges are perceived as not to be received due to the quality of the charged.

It does not exist.

This prevents from considering that Russia did not press charges as they would know beforehand that the level of evidences required for the charge to be received would be crushing as the charge involves a liberal country.

That is one cause for Russia to dismiss charges of ethnocide.

Another one is that Russia relies on allies, allies that may be put under pressure if the case of ethnocide is pressed as it would provide an angle for liberals to divide the allies.

Bringing in the issue of genocide would have placed China under pressure.

All in all, the OP is once again a repeat that the law is all. Unless a legal body admits a genocide to happen, it can not happen. And pressing charges of genocide against a liberal society is the easiest thing as liberal have never proven to be the most effective at rejecting charges of genocide against them.

Eventually, if a genocide was being committed, or was in the making, Russia's intervention to that goal does not depend of any legal perception to be effective or ineffective.

I have seldom seen such a great demolition job done on the drivilling loons as Mike has just done. 

Outstanding work Mike!.

However they are so invested in these lies they are not men enough to admit they got it all wrong. The beauty of it all is the longer they hang on to the lies the dafter they look. Hahahahahaha. 

Man it is hilarious that there could be people so dumb as to behave like this! 

Branching off this point to come back to it: the Iraqi war.

During the Iraqi war, a segment of the Iraqi population decided to fight the coalition of the willing not as support to the mad man Saddam Hussein but as people defending against an invader.

Liberal societies supposedly acknowledge the right to do so.

But all those groups had to gain international recognition to do so. They could not do it as mere Iraqis, they had to gather support from elsewhere.

Applications were sent and of course, liberal societies never had enough hands to sign all the applications as they acknowledged the right to defend one's homeland.

In case of failing to gain recognition, people were considered as illegal combatants. A notion invented during the war to conciliate the alleged right to defend one's homeland and the very fact the US and co did not want invaded people to defend from the invasion.

Coming back to the war in Ukraine:

at the start of the war, when applying the same standards as for the Iraqi war, there were plenty of illegal combatants.

Yet no side even evoked the existence of illegal combatants. For the west, they were staunch patriots defending their land. Russia skipped the topic and never placed doubt on the legality of the combatants the russian army faced.

Liberal world, no double standards in action.

I quoted the Chief Advisors comments about ethnic cleansing and Zelenskyy appointed the guy.  If he differed from the guy he had two options - countermand what he said as published in Wikipedia or fire the guy - but the poison is evident in everything Zelenskyy is involved in. 

I will lay a bet and that is Wikipedia will remove the comments as quoted by me.   The media turned most people into unthinking morons and tell them  what they may believe and may not believe.           

Stav

I cannot fool you on anything since you are already a fool and know what I wrote is true - but you will never admit it because the Ukraine propaganda is all you believe and spread.    I have proof of actual facts - you have Ukraine propaganda as the only thing applicable in this case. 

Okay what Ukrainian propaganda am I spreading?

As for providing proof of actual facts, don't make me laugh. You where asked to provide links to where Biden boasted of blowing up Nord Stream and link to where you claimed Biden said the goal of the war was to get rid of Putin before the Russian's invaded.

As usual when asked to provide the links you couldn't and instead just posted some other conspiracy prattle of which of course you didn't provide proof for either. 

By the way I said originally there are proof of existence of bio-labs in Ukraine based on reports on the issue that the USA was involved in helping the  Ukraine Government to close down Soviet era bio-labs in Ukraine.    You and the other fools said there were no bio-labs in Ukraine.  In the end the USA admitted there were  bio-labs in Ukraine in a Senate proving I was right.   The USA did in 32 years nothing to close operating  bio-labs in Ukraine.   It also came out in the Senate Hearing that the Bio-labs in Ukraine are  not involved in dangerous research - but the USA were worried about the Russian getting hold of the pathogens developed in Ukraine    The latter story indicate the whole issue is in fact a dangerous program..   Another fact that came up was that with US AID funding a new bio-lab  was built in Odessa and completed in 2018 and is jointly operated by the Ukraine and US Governments.   So the Bio-labs are real and not Russian Disinformation.

Please try to get this into your head. No one disputes that there is bio-labs in Ukraine or that the US has some involvement in them. What is Russian Disinformation is that those bio-labs where anyway involved in creating bio-weapons. 

I am not studying developments for nothing - you do not study anything - you believe the BS  spread by the Ukraine and US Governments.    I believe in no propaganda - whether Russian or anything else.

Any ideas not tying in with yours is not Russian propaganda spreading - you accuse anyone differing  from you of that.     

Mike face facts, you're just a liar.

Great so Russia had clear evidence of genocide, but didn’t bring charges because is was going to embarrass. …..China? 

There was a genocide in Ukraine….this genocide:

Between 1941 and 1945, between 850,000 - 900,000 Jews were killed in Ukraine, which included assistance of local collaborators. Around 3,000,000 non-Jews were also killed as a result of Nazi occupation policies.[8][9][10]Original plans of genocide called for the extermination of 65% of the nation's 23.2 million Ukrainians,[11][12] with the remainder of inhabitants to be treated as slaves.[13]Over 2,300,000 Ukrainians were deported to Germany for slave labor.[14] In ten years' time, the plan effectively called for the extermination, expulsion, Germanization or enslavement of most or all Ukrainians.

. …….

This nation has been subject to unspeakable acts of violence….the latest being the Russian invasion. But rather than capitulating they have responded  courageously and refused to yield.

Great so Russia had clear evidence of genocide, but didn’t bring charges because is was going to embarrass. …..China?

There is nothing like an evidence, only elements that may be or may be not received as evidence.

The case is no different than any other. In cases, a prosecutor assesses the elements in relation with the charged person. The more powerful an accused is, the stronger the elements must be.

Same, Russia may have to assess the strength of the elements in relation to who was charged and who was going to examine the elements.

Since China is entangled in a suspicion of genocide and that the strength of the elements required to condemn China  is less than the one required to condemn Ukraine, pressing charges against Ukraine is a threat on the allied China.

They are the best at denying genocides.

Same goes for war crimes. War crimes are being committed both sides. For sure, though, russian war crimes are going to easier to prove than Ukranian ones.

A matter of self perception. Liberals perceive themselves as unbiased, they are just people.

Any element brought to them is going to be assessed properly, especially when it goes against them.

Mozart 

Who was the Ukraine leader who caused that genocide in Ukraine?   It as a Ukanian by the name of Bandera - at present a hero of the Ukraine Republic.   You obviously does not believe what some of the leadership members in Ukraine said and did.   You do not understand what happened in Ukraine.   The Asov battalion captured Mariopol in 2015 and  went on a killing spree which they continued in Odessa - when there were labor disputes in Odessa they started shooting at the demonstrators who fled into the trade union building.   The Asov Battalion sealed off the building and killed eveyone attempting to leave the building and put the building on fire.   Over a 1000 people were killed in Odessa a city with 96% of the people has Russian as a home language.    The situation was so bad it was reported to the UN for investigation and the UN put the Asov Battalion on the list of terrorist and mercenary organizations.   The US then put a ban on provision of arms to the Battalion.     The Ukraine Government then incorporated the battalion  in the Ukraine Army - so they could get weaponry from the USA.   

I saw a video once where a Frenchman who served in the French army volunteered to go to Ukraine to serve in the medical corps serving in the army.   He was horrified when he saw what the members of the Battalion  did to Russian prisoners of war.   The Asov battalion collected them and took them to a building where they shot the prisoners in the knee - and showed them a photo of a Russian General and when some say they did not recognize the man they executed the prisoners with a shot in the head.   Those who said they know the man was executed as well.  The French volunteer was horrified what he saw and fled to France.   He gave a radio interview on what he saw happening and then the Ukraine Government put him on the hit list The Ukraine compiled with the help of the CIA.   Jimmy Dore and a number of other Americans are on the list as well, because they question the bona fides of the Ukraine Government and exposed corruption - like what happened in one $1 billion grant approved by the House when the Democrats still controlled the House.   The  money went to Ukraine and was invested by the Ukraine Government in FTX.    In terms of law the DP must declare donations to fund elections and it was reported that $70 million by F TX for the 2022 election - the rest just vanished into thin air

I saw what people do and say - not what internationals say is happening.    When the Biden Administration say anything about issues I believe the exact opposite to what they say.   The lies are then spread to the media and you are foolish enough to believe the BS propaganda.

Mike you call Biden corrupt and yet Putin is supposedly mega wealthy?  Mostly though I can take on board material from credible sources. I accept the N.Y. Times and CNN are unreliable on Russia. How about a conservative publication like the Telegraph, something a normal person can believe. Hearsay, however, is not proof.

So let me demolish  that fool Stav and then turn on Mozart.   av you wrote that you agreed with BB about videos reflecting only talks with no proof of anything - ie propaganda videos - which he posted on site.    When I refer to written proof of what I state I use videos with written proof in it.  Iro Ukraine I referred to a video of Jimmy Dore - a very real liberal -   and you claimed you did not have the time to go through a huge number of videos to find the one I refer to.   Plank - all you have to do  is to google the following:-

 Jimmy Dore videos Ukraine war.

There is a string of them - all containing documentary proof of what he discussed.   Note especially the one of Ukraine army murder of prisoners of war.  Is that not a war crime?

Another time when I queried confirmation on one of your more outrageous posts on site you posted a Guardian  article as proof.   I could not believe my eyes when I saw that one.   I still wonder when last the Guardian published anything that was not a lie in their paper.   When eve you want to pick up BS try the  Guardian - they would lie and distort everything they wrote thus far this century.   

I wrote about ethnic cleansing program of the Ukraine Government  and quote what the leadership are going to do in any area they get control over.    That as a rare case of honesty from the Ukraine Government - but you decided to ignore what the Chief Advisor  about the ethnic cleansing policy of the Ukraine Government.    Facts do not count for anything by the fool who recently wrote US politicians are not corrupt.   That must be the joke of the century - because the media hide info  on anything that can embarrass  the Obama and Biden regimes.  They lied about Trump endlessly and you in your stupidity accepted it. and spout it on site.

What you write on site  is equal to what toilet paper is used for - to wipe shit from arses.   It is normally a concoction of shit you picked up from the fake media.    You obviously have forgotten how to think objectively on issues.so now you do not think about anything because of brainwashing.

By the way - when Putin submitted the info to the UN the USA was caught with the pants down so they said there are Soviet era bio- labs they are helping Ukraine to close the bio-labs     After original hysteria on site and in the media  by people fell for the lie about closing down.  Let me be clear Ukraine became independent in 1991 and in 32 years none of the bio-labs were closed down.- no they built a new modern one in Odessa,    They are not developing weapons.   Covid was developed in the Wuhan bio-lab funded by the USA.    O - how could I make that statement. - the Chinese claimed it came from the Wuhan Market where only fish were sold and the USA arranged that statements on the internet platform be banned by the owners and after 2021 by the Biden  Regime.   So the Covid virus is not a war weapon in itself - it just killed millions of people - viva la difference.

Mozart 

You started the thread on ethnic cleansing not on genocide,     There were evidence of murder of people by the Asov Battalion and they were classed as a terrorist organization by the UN  and the USA banned weapon supply to them.   When I quoted what the Chief Advisor of Zelesnkyy said about ethnic cleansing - so it embarrassed you and now it is suddenly genocide.

So in your brilliance you discovered genocide of Jews in WW2.   Nobody ever denied that - the killed did not only include Jews - it included Poles as well.   So who was the implementor of the genocide in Ukraine?   The local assistant of Hitler was a certain Bandera - who after the war fled to West Germany (the USA  Sector) and protected by them because he was to be used against Russia.   Bandera was as close to Hitler as any of the other leaders of Hungary, Romania, Bugaria.    Now what has Bandera  is now the national hero of Ukraine and some of his admirers are serving in the Zelenskyy regime   Have fun while trying to squirm yourself out of that one.  

Now Biden is NOT corrupt - blaas my siel.   What a statement - are you living in count cuccko land?    And Putin is megarich - at least you say supposed he is.   So lets educate you a bit - in Russia there was a situation where residents of Moscow built dachas - ie country homes.   Most were modest and consisted of wooden huts with a small land lot around it.   The aristocracy built huge palaces as their country homes.   The same happened in St Petersburg.   Those palaces were taken over by the State and used by the communist leadership to live in or used for parties.  After the fall of Communism the palaces remained the property of the Government .   I saw a story about the massive palace is using as a  dacha.    The fact is the palace are not owned by Putin - but it serves as an example of how super-rich Putin is.   no doubt Putin is rich - but there is no proof that he is even as rich as Pelosi is.

So you do not believe what the Chief Advisor said about ethnic cleansing of Russian resident that lived for centuries in the Crimea must now be removed through ethnic cleansing.   O mama mia - how ignorant you are on issues.   Ukraine  is just one.   But then tell me you do not support the ethnic cleansing of Ukraine.   

So let me demolish  that fool Stav and then turn on Mozart.   av you wrote that you agreed with BB about videos reflecting only talks with no proof of anything - ie propaganda videos - which he posted on site.    When I refer to written proof of what I state I use videos with written proof in it.  Iro Ukraine I referred to a video of Jimmy Dore - a very real liberal -   and you claimed you did not have the time to go through a huge number of videos to find the one I refer to.   Plank - all you have to do  is to google the following:-

 Jimmy Dore videos Ukraine war.

Mike your are beyond a bad joke at this stage.

Link to the specific video with a time stamp where Biden either boasted about blowing up Nordstream or claimed before the war began the goal of the war was to remove Putin. 

If you can't do this, then admit your a liar. You of course won't do either, you're just going to post another load of dribble.

I told you w here I saw the video and read the report on Fox News.  But your head is totally confused.   When  the African leaders  met with  with  Putin - he gave them copies of the peace ag agrement signed by himself and Zelenskyy around 14 days before the invasion.   What changed in that 14 days that lead to the invasion?    The amazement on their faces when they heard and saw that one.      Any explanation by you would come up would be welcome.   The explanation believed by the BRICS countries is that Biden sabotaged that treaty and the mafioso  in Ukraine funded by the crooks in Washington - the Kiev lot depend for their survival on their paymasters in Washington.   Have fun S0UIRNMING OUT OF THAT ONE.      

I have said this before, and I will say it again. 

Dumb Mike's primary source is his arse- but others include Fox News, Russian Times and biblical alt-right sources. He is most inspired when sitting on the toilet with constipation. 

His perception is so warped that he filters out most of reality. His relationship with reality distances even more with his lies to fill gaps in his understanding .
At this point, he can't tell the difference between hearsay and facts

..190 × 281

I told you w here I saw the video and read the report on Fox News.  

You said look at Jimmy Dore video's. Just a quick check and I can see Dore has posted 100's of video's on Ukraine. I'm not remotely interesting in searching for something that I know only exists in your head Mike.

Do you not understand Mike how batshit crazy those claims are. Not even the Russia's are making them because its too far fetched an idea for them to even push. I mean Biden effectively admitting to staging the war and blowing up Nord Stream, if he was behind both events why on earth would of he gone to the trouble of covertly starting the war and blowing Nord Stream only to later publicly admit it. Do you think America's allies would of just accepted that? Why has absolutely no one else but you come across these claims. It would of been the number one news story all across planet.

This is a thing you could resolve in seconds if you just link to the videos or the Fox news post, but you can't because they don't exist and you know it. You can't just admit your lies. 

Well Elon Musk has said he isn’t the richest man in the world and that the title belongs to Putin. My guess is Elon is pretty well informed. How exactly do the dachas (dagga is the drug that may be causing your hallucinations) prove he isn’t?

Wonderful proof  - Mozart of the wealth of Putin coming from Musk.  Putin own places where he lives.   It is the same saying that the White House belongs to Trump or Biden - totally idiotic.   The Russian Archdukes and other aristocrats built the places in and around St Petersburg.    

The Kremlin development started in the 14th century - every older city in Russia had their own Kremlin.  Why was that?    When built originally it was for defense purposes only - but until St Petersburg was started being developed as the capital of Russia in the early 18th century.    The Emperors lived  in a string of palaces and so did their family members.    The main Winter Palace nowadays called the Hermitage was built by the empress Elizabeth and comprise of 27 buildings integrated into one.   It houses the second biggest art collection in the world and make the Versailles look like a  minor residence for the poor.   Does it belong to Putin?   It obviously does not.

The same can be said about palaces later built as holiday homes in the Crimea and Odessa.   The Communists did preserve most of those palaces and although the capital moved from St  Petersburg to Moscow after they took over.   There was a charming story about the Communist Governor General of St Petersburg.   When his daughter got married in the 1980's he decided to use crockery that belonged to the Empress Catherine the Great for the reception and some of the items were broken.   The said Governor General was fired and disappear from the scene - nobody knows what happened to him.   Most likely treated with a shot in the head by the Communists.    I went to see a number of palaces in and around St Petersburg like Peterhoff built by Peter the Great outside of St Petersburg and the Alexander Palace in Tsarkoye Selo.  Interesting.    When in St Petersburg I asked about it and told there were 52 palaces in and around St Petersburg used by the Tsar and his family,   The tour leader showed  us the ground floor of those palaces together with the amazing luxury of the ground floors of those palaces - which was retained by the Communists - but they also showed us where the royalty actually lived - on the second and higher floors.   It was sparsely furnished  for instance the bedrooms      had cheap iron beds and very plain furniture.    Another interesting place I visited was the Peter and Paul fortress in St Petersburg.   At the entrance was a plan indicating the lay-out of the fotress and what struck me as the fac that the basic lay-out plan was the same as the Castle in Cape Town built 30 years earlier.   Instead of having initially living facilities for the Governors and their offices in Cape Town the St Petersburg castle had a church in the middle o he fortress where the subsequent Emperors and their families were buried.   Even when the bones of the last Tsar was discovered in Ekaterinburg they used  Prince Michael of Kent to determine authenticity through tests and Nicholas II and Alexandra was given a state funeral and what was left of them was buried in that Church.    The mother of Nicholas II - the sister of Queen Alexandra of  England - was rescued by an English Warship in 1917 from the Crimea and settled in Denmark.  When she died in 1928 - Queen Mary sent an agent to Denmark to get the jewelry of the Empress Minnie as she was called - and it became the ownership of the British royal family,  After many years of dispute as to the ownership of the jewelry Queen Elizabeth paid the descendants of the Empress Minnie  75 million pounds for the jewelry taken  in 1928 by Queen Mary,  

Anyway the original point was clearly described by the Empress Elizabeth in the Ekatherina TV series hen she said to her nephew that he will own nothing in his life - he and his family ae custodians of the property that belongs to Russia.    So does the palaces Putin lives in at present - they do not belong to him - they belong to Mother Russia.    Musk apparently think differently as to ownership of many ultra-luxurious properties used by the Russian political elite.    

There is no authentic record of anything owned by Putin himself.    Zilch at all so you comments on his personal properties and wealth as it best a guess - at worse distortions and lies by the media in the USA and in Europe.    Whatever properties there are neve belonged to the Emperors and their families - never belonged to the Communist leaders and never belonged to Yeltzin and Putin.

Now back to your original posting - the fact is that you apparently found out about Bandera and could not dispel the story of Bandera's role n WW2 genocide in the Ukraine - the present   national hero of the present Ukraine Government.   You also ran away from the present Ukraine regime plan t get rid of Russian speaking people in Ukraine.   Seemingly you are ashamed to admit that the present objective of the Ukraine Regime is to forced the present Russian speaking people out of Ukraine  through ethnic cleansing.   Do you support ethnic cleansing in easten Ukraine?   Hope you do not.

Stav

I am amazed by your lack of honesty.   When the story about bio-labs broke through providing evidence the fake media and their adherents - you included went ballistic on this site as well.   Caught out the USA Government afterwards admitted the existence of the bio-labs - but started a lie that the USA was working together with the Kiev Regime to close down the labs.   Public Servants are basically incompetent - but in 32 years no bio-lab  closed and a new on built by the USA in Odessa n 2018.

They are not manufacturing  bio-weapons>   Amazing - was the Covid virus developed by the Wuhan Bio-lab and funded by the USA a bio-weapon  causing the death of millions of people?

Get some logic into your extremely thick skull and start thinking if that is still possible.  Hope y7ou enjoy being an unthinking idiot.     

SB

I have stated in the past your thinking is controlled   by what comes out of your arse.   F or every one lie by F ox News the other media produce at least 10 million lies.    What is the Russia Times anyway - never heard about them before.

You are totally incompetent when it comes to thinking - no logic - nothing.   What you write on site is an insult to 5 year old retarded children.                  

SB

I have stated in the past your thinking is controlled   by what comes out of your arse.   F or every one lie by F ox News the other media produce at least 10 million lies.    What is the Russia Times anyway - never heard about them before.

You are totally incompetent when it comes to thinking - no logic - nothing.   What you write on site is an insult to 5 year old retarded children.                  

I accept the N.Y. Times and CNN are unreliable on Russia. How about a conservative publication like the Telegraph, something a normal person can believe. Hearsay, however, is not proof.

Liberals process theirs opinions through their self perception (including own society)

Things must be put in accordance to match theirs beliefs.

The NY Times is one outlet that admitted a potential nazi problem in Ukraine. Probably due to the influence of jewish people who are split over providing Ukraine with unconditional support.

As for the rest, as GWB once stated, for liberals, neutrality does not exist, it is either against them and with them.

Before the war, the english newspaper landscape was divided between news outlets that would support England over Russia (including the Telegraph) and outlets that would churn the garbage labelled as anti western rhetorics (liberals are supposed to live in societies that favour self critical attitude) so at times, opinion pieces that could be depicted as pro russian (a guy writing in the Guardian)

Since the war, the deal has changed, outlets that were not favourable to Russia are not while outlets that could be perceived as favourable are no longer.

And the light should come from papers which already were opposed to Russia before the war.

Liberals

a genocide is happening in Ukraine

Liberals that have been supported the genocide side are able to receive elements that show the existence of the genocide, hence justifying the russian action.

And people are supposed to believe that stuff.

Genocide happening or not happening, liberal societies are no capacity to receive elements that would confirm a genocide. It is above their strength. They will keep denying, denying.

When people are unable to receive a no or a yes, asking a yes or no question is pointless.

So I see Clever is back to his ethnic cleansing nonsense again….so I’m bringing back, again, an evaluation of the ethnic cleansing claims.

The conclusion, this Boer war tactic is false:

‘ Therefore, any piece of pro-Russian disinformation that Ukraine was committing genocide in Donbas for eight years which necessitated Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and the “protection” of civilians is false’

Case closed. 

Case closed.

Of course not. Liberals are highly tolerant to contradictions.

First, the OP does not provide any element that may be useful to a third party. It is a collection of you say, they say.

More importantly

liberals peddle claims

a- Claim that if the claims were valid, liberals could validate them

b- claim that intervention can not happen without valid claim.

Added to that, they also claim to support the idea of sovereignty.

A is dubious. B is incorrect considering the liberal record of intervention as they intervened on many false claims.

Here comes sovereignty: a sovereign country show its sovereignty by acting the same way as liberal countries.

Liberal countries seldom convinced Russia the false claims they used to trigger interventions were valid claims. How it comes Russia must convince liberal countries of the validity of their claims in the Ukrainian war.

Russia must also as a sign of sovereignty be able to intervene on false claims just as liberal countries.

So the case is and will remain open for a very long time.

BS Mozart

Read what the Chief Advisor on Peace Negotiations O Zelenskyy said the objective of the Ukraine Government said about how to deal with Russian Culture said about what their intentions ae if hey get control of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine.  If you do not understand English - I wrote about ethnic cleansing - you apparently do not understand the difference between ethnic cleansing and genocide.    So in then you are stupid and an political imbecile as well.

I also looked at the present situation in Ukraine.   Zelenskyy BANNED all opposition parties are his own and a few small parties supporting him who are there to claim his regime is DEMOCRATIC.   It is FA of the kind.   Before the Russian Invasion took place the Ukraine Parliament unanimously with support of all Russian speaking members passed a resolution condemning the potential invasion.    A week before the Invasion actual took place the Ukraine Government arrested all Russian speaking members of the main Opposition Party.    They have gone missing and nobody know where they are.  They have not been charged with any crime    When an EU journalist asked a question about the arrestees the answer was they do not know where they are.   If the Asov Battalion got hold of them chances are 100% they have been murdered.

Shortly after that Zelenskyy banned the functioning of the main Opposition Parties in Ukraine - all of them basically was represented by Russian speaking members in Parliament.   He went further and banned the church to which 90%  of all Ukrainians belong - the Ukraine Orthodox Church.    The Headquarters of the Russian Orthodox Church was in Kiev until the Mongols captured the city in the 14th century and as a result the church moved its headquarters to Moscow.    The Ukraine Orthodox Church is a subsidiary of the Russian Orthodox Church similar to the Orthodox  Churches in the Balkans.    There is no evidence that the Church did anything to support the Russian Invasion at all.

The above indicates the actions of the  present Ukraine Regime - if you think the lot is not capable of ethnic cleansing you must be living in dreamland.    You are just too headstrong to see the actions of a dictatorial regime - it will not change in future.

Who claimed there were incidents of mass killings of people by the Asov Battalion in Mariopol and Odessa and the UNO included the said Batallion in their list of  Terrorist and Mercenary organizations.   The quick and easy solution was to incorporate the Battalion in the  Ukraine Army - but nobody said there were genocide  in Ukraine - the two incidents I referred to dealt with  by the UN leaves the fear that they may be threats of Genocide.   What is very real is the threats that could come from the Asov Batttalion with their Nazi regalia - the USA reluctantly already reluctantly admitted that they are involved in War Crimes.     

The Asov Battalion was founded and funded by the  same Oligarch  who funded the Zelenskyy election campaign  and owned the TV Channell where Zelenskyy worked.   He is a Jew and work closely together with your other idol Soros, whose influence on the Biden Regime is near to total when it comes to undermining of law and order in the USA.   Add 2 and 2 together.

By the way is Biden not corrupt?   You are quiet on that one and seems to think he is an angel or rectitude.    Any comment from you on that will be sincerely appreciated.   

BS Mozart

Read what the Chief Advisor on Peace Negotiations O Zelenskyy said the objective of the Ukraine Government said about how to deal with Russian Culture said about what their intentions ae if hey get control of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine.  If you do not understand English - I wrote about ethnic cleansing - you apparently do not understand the difference between ethnic cleansing and genocide.    So in then you are stupid and an political imbecile as well.

I also looked at the present situation in Ukraine.   Zelenskyy BANNED all opposition parties are his own and a few small parties supporting him who are there to claim his regime is DEMOCRATIC.   It is FA of the kind.   Before the Russian Invasion took place the Ukraine Parliament unanimously with support of all Russian speaking members passed a resolution condemning the potential invasion.    A week before the Invasion actual took place the Ukraine Government arrested all Russian speaking members of the main Opposition Party.    They have gone missing and nobody know where they are.  They have not been charged with any crime    When an EU journalist asked a question about the arrestees the answer was they do not know where they are.   If the Asov Battalion got hold of them chances are 100% they have been murdered.

Shortly after that Zelenskyy banned the functioning of the main Opposition Parties in Ukraine - all of them basically was represented by Russian speaking members in Parliament.   He went further and banned the church to which 90%  of all Ukrainians belong - the Ukraine Orthodox Church.    The Headquarters of the Russian Orthodox Church was in Kiev until the Mongols captured the city in the 14th century and as a result the church moved its headquarters to Moscow.    The Ukraine Orthodox Church is a subsidiary of the Russian Orthodox Church similar to the Orthodox  Churches in the Balkans.    There is no evidence that the Church did anything to support the Russian Invasion at all.

The above indicates the actions of the  present Ukraine Regime - if you think the lot is not capable of ethnic cleansing you must be living in dreamland.    You are just too headstrong to see the actions of a dictatorial regime - it will not change in future.

Who claimed there were incidents of mass killings of people by the Asov Battalion in Mariopol and Odessa and the UNO included the said Batallion in their list of  Terrorist and Mercenary organizations.   The quick and easy solution was to incorporate the Battalion in the  Ukraine Army - but nobody said there were genocide  in Ukraine - the two incidents I referred to dealt with  by the UN leaves the fear that they may be threats of Genocide.   What is very real is the threats that could come from the Asov Batttalion with their Nazi regalia - the USA reluctantly already  admitted that they are involved in War Crimes.     

The Asov Battalion was found and funded by the  same Oligarch  who funded the Zelenskyy election campaign  and owned the TV Channell where Zelenskyy worked.   He is a Jew and work closely together with your other idol Soros, whose influence on the Biden Regime is near to total when it comes to undermining of law and order in the USA.   Add 2 and 2 together.

Buy the way is Biden not corrupt?   You are quiet on that one and seems to think he is an angel or rectitude.    Any comment from you on that will be sincerely appreciated.   

Read the lead article it addresses your argument and buries it.

And remember Polonius’ comment in Hamlet, ‘brevity is the of wit’.

The so-called genocide story was misinterpreted as per normal - the Ukraine Government started to implement measures that they feared could end up in genocide - what was really problematic was  the actions of the  Ukraine Government without any Democratic human rights protection could easily be converted into genocide - but definitely into ethnic cleansing if the announcement of Zelensky'y political cronies are borne in mind.   

You are grabbing at issues like the one dealt with in this thread as if that as the only reason for the invasion by Russia of Ukraine.  Normally a thinking person would do a comprehensive study of  the reasons why desperate efforts by the EU countries - especially France - to prevent the war was not successful despite a peace treaty signed by Zelenskyy and Putin in the fortnight before the invasion of Ukraine took place.    Most of those REASONS  had heir origin in Washington and Kiev.

But then according to you and some other posters there were only Putin to be blamed  - which factually is total BS - there were other reasons for the war that people refused to consider.  Reasonable people say that Putin should never have invaded Ukraine  and the role of the corrupt Biden regime and kickbacks the criminals in Washington go needs to be evaluated to determine what decisions were taken  as well and to determine whether there were no ulterior motives like corruption  was not a factor that contributed to the war.   Trump was 100% correct - there would never have started if he was President.                       

What really started this thread was a thread I started about ethnic cleansing as promoted by Zelenskyy's chief negotiator.   In a desperate effort to find some reason to what he thinks could be used against the Ethnic cleansing ideas  of some political  cronies of Zelenskyy.    He could find nothing on the ethnic cleansing issue - so he grabbed an article dealing with ethnic cleansing that has been  decided upon as a crime against humanity by the UN.   

Genocide refers to planned and implementing of mass murder to wipe out entire communities  and designated as opposition to rogue Governments.   Ethnic cleansing are aimed at removal f people from where their ancestors lived for centuries and where they were in fact protected by the Constitution of their ancestors living there for centuries    In extreme cases  sthnic cleaan sing can turn into genocide.    Normally ethnic cleansing and genocide is directed  and controlled by rogue Governments.   Reading what a senior official of the Zelenskyy administration says and bearing in mind that the present rg

Seeing the comments made above by a senior  official appointed by Zelenskyy said and bearing in mind that Ukraine has no constitution - it is becoming clear that the Ukrainj7e Government has gone rogue. -

*   fining people who speak their home language in public,

*    prohibiting the teaching in schools of Russian - ie  banning them being taught in their home language to  up to 36% of the people of Ukraine as well as banning usage of Russian to teach other subjects to children in Ukraine schools;

*    arresting all Russian speaking Members of Parliament - and when the Ukraine Attorney General told Zelenskyy there is no evidence  to support criminal charges against the members - wherafter Zelenskyy fired her without approval by the Ukraine Parliament;

*     Banning all activities of  all the main opposition political parties and especially targeting Russian speaking Ukraine citizens.

*     Implementing total censorship in Ukraine- even having a US journalist arrested for mildly criticizing the Regime.

*     Forbidding the functioning of the biggest religious church in Ukraine - the Ukraine Ortodox Church.

No constitution with corrupt crooks in charge destroys countries- Fast forward from St Zelenskyy to  Comrade Stalin.

I guess you don’t understand Polonius. There is no way the West would be all in for a country guilty of ethnic cleansing,,,,case closed.

The West has no interest  whatsoever to what is happening in Ukraine and the people of Ukraine.  If they had any interest in helping t reach a peaceful settlement in that country they would have supported the peace negotiations initiated by the countries and ultimately with goodwill a peaceful settlement would have been achieved

So what was the role of the USA in Ukraine in 2014 and subsequently.     Matter of fact the attitude and handling of the situation is Ukraine starting in 2014.    After the election of 2013 in Ukraine the CIA and State Department co-ordinated and funded the coup in Ukraine in February.2014.  The protests started in October 2013 and went on through the harsh winter conditions in winter in Ukraine.  Those protests cost  a huge amount of money and the supply came from the overactive CIA and US Embassy in Kiev.   The media reporting on the Ukraine issue was always involved in anti-Russian allegations.   After the elected President fearing for his life fled to Rusia Nuland in a press interview  discussed the new Interim Government in Ukraine.   The names of the interim Government appointees discussed by Nuland  were all appointed to the positions Nuland identified.   You claimed the protests leading to the unconstitutional regime change in Ukraine.   If that was indeed the case how come the USA effectively  decided on who should be in charge of Ukraine?   It was a coup nothing else..

The  USA  started donating billions of dollars to Ukraine.   It was about that financial support that led to US politicians got involved in huge corruption in Ukraine.   Lets start with the Burisma.    The company was involved in gas and oil exploitation in Ukraine. The Ukraine Government was clearly ultra-corrupt and a new Prosecutor in Kiev had the homes and office of Burisma in Kiev raided  and that cause unease in the worries in the case of the political crime families.   Biden was responsible for a  protection racket and threatened  the Government of Ukraine of withholding a $1 billion in aid to Ukraine   When Biden forced the Ukraine Government  to fire the Ukraine prosecutor Burisma documents showed that Biden was paid $5 million for that favor.   Biden also urged that Hunter be paid $5 million and be appointed  to the Burisma Board.    Hunter allegedly was also paid $5 million for his part in the scam  to get Burisma off the Hook.   Biden created 25 shelf companies into which money was paid by foreign companies  for services rendered.   And from the companies the money was laundered to bank accounts of Biden family members.    Suspecting that money is being laundered the Banks handling transactions of the companies suspected that what happened was criminal and sent advices to the FBI on the transactions.   The FBI did nothing about the issue and recent whistleblower reports conformed that the FBI also operated a protection racket in Ukraine.   

Aside from Biden  Pelosi through her son Paul stole $25 million from US Aid funding.    Pelosi son had a company doing exploration of gas and oil resources in Ukraine.    - note the similarity with Burisma.   A video praising the activities of her son was used to get  $25 million grant from Aid funding.   The company benefitting belonged to Paul Pelosi  and a Russian from Moscow partner.living in Moscow.   Interesting info is that the company was originally registered in Califo0rnia - but the company was cancelled  due to irregularities  and  he and his Russian partner then registered the company in Singapore.   After getting the $25 million from US aid money the company transferred the money to the company bank account in Singapore and from there it vanished, into thin air and the wonderful Pelosi-praised company went out of business,

When the IMF granted financial assistance to the Ukraine Government  a bank in Kiev was used to handle the funding and assistance processes.    The Bank gave the Clinton Foundation a grant of R38 million>   Since then the bank was closed due to the bank involvement in bribry and corruption.   

Schiff for years had been involved in money laundering from Ukraine..   His election costs was covered by an arms manufacturer from Ukraine by the name of Stepanek.   Stepanek benefited massively from armaments assistance grants provided by the US Government.   Not to be out of step.  with the rest of the money-launderers Stepanek registered a subsidiary company in the USA - on the board of which served two employees of Schiff. this would under normal circumstances be regarded a money-laundering operation and again the FBI protection racket kicked in.

Bearing in mind that the politicians involved held senior positions in Government it is no surprise that the USA Government did everything in its power to assist the equally corrupt  Ukraine regime.    

The next phase is what happened  after the start of the war in Ukraine the House vote $1 billion structural assisance to Ukraine aside from the arms deliveries.   Three days after approval of the amount by the House Pelosi and Schiff.    After that visit the Ukraine Government invested the aid grant in FTX quoting promotion of FTX by the Word Economic Forum on their website.  Three weeks later F TX went belly-up and the only money that could be traced was donation of $70 million to the DNC as financial support to cover expenses from the 2022 election.    

US political corruption is central to ignoring negotiations  to settle the Ukraine issue and key elements in the Obama and Biden presidency were obviously against  anything interrupting their money flows from Ukraine.    This is why the whole story stink to high heaven and t here as zero support from the US Government to support peace negotiations.               

Polonius come back, all is forgiven.