Israel vs Iran - Rumors of a ceasefire announcement

"Emm no it doesn't. They have had the capability of sending stealth bombers halfway round the world and back for decades. The question of whether China or Russia could detect and then shoot them down is still an open question. China and Russia have far more capable anti air defences than Iran's an air defence system that Israel had already significantly degraded. Even if the US could pull successfully pull off such an attack on China or Russia, China and Russia have nuclear missiles capable of hitting the US in retaliation, so it's unlikely the US would use that option pre-emptively.

Trump got played into the strikes by Netanyahu. Wasn't any grand strategic vision behind it."

Whoooshhh!!! You can only shoot something down if you know it's there...neither China nor Russia knew the bombers were on their way, so their satellite observations did not pick up anything...if something needs to be in their air space before being detected, it will be too late...Moscow isn't all that far from where the bombs dropped in Iran...

Both Russia and China would have warned Iran if they detected this...they didn't...

But you actually are believing a leaked report from an anonymous source. You believe what you wish to believe…..Trump bad man..little men in suits…heroes.

I was sceptical of Trump's claim's because not only is he a notorious liar and prone to exaggeration but also because numerous military analysts said it was too far too early to have made such an assessment. People with long experience serving in the military.

I also called the report preliminary, subsequent reports may come to a different conclusion, but I do find them more credible than relying on Trump's word as the media organisations who are citing the leaked reports do have to go through some level of due diligence before breaking the story.

You on the other hand blunder in right behind Trump with what did you call it " clinical exercise". And now you rely on lazy non arguments like Trump bad man...little men in suits, as predictable as it is boring.

Don't say that to stav. He fell for the stunt of the Democrats in Washingon using CNN to claim otherwise,

What came out was a so-called leaked assessment by a CIA staff member gave to CNN and Democrats, Rhat issue is being investigated and since the report was compiled by somebody without any access to the situation in the ME and an investigation as to who is involved as an act of high treason,

In the interval a charge was laid by the Democrats of Impeahment of Trump based on the said report and the fact that the USDF on instruction of Trump without Congress approval.- there were a long string of Ptresident doing the same, An alternative multi-party routine proposal was then submitted for the House to do an investigation of what happened as an alternative, So the matter was put up to be voted on. The seond proposal was approved with 128 of the 2015 DP members voting with the Republican Party for the alternative solution.

That shows how the Demcorats are destroying their own party from within. It is an open case of the ultra-left and the center splitting up and the knoves are out for the ultra-leftists.

In the meantime a Democrat depuy Mayor i Calfornia called upon the California gags toa ttack the Police and the National Guard protecting Los Angeles. In the alternative a new protest grou has athered tpgether Iranians living on California. They wave USA and Iranian flags and is not riotng - but supporting the bombing of the nuclear failities in Ian and itging Trump to get rid of the Ayatollah regime. Problem is unlike ofr instance in Ukraine - he is not in fvor of any regime change change and stated that it is an issue the people of Itran should decide upon.

And in a statement on the negotiation issue Witkoff progres towards a permanent peace settlement in the ME is continuing wth the signs out that positive progress are being aade in those negotiations qith the Iranians swearig they did not breach the cease fire and they are complying and Netnhau beiong readd the Riot Act and is now apparentl also complying with the ceasefire,

I am really sorry for he mess Stav landed imself in and the same applies to Denny and BB. SB has gione quiet and apparently found out he as spreading shit originally,

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Whoooshhh!!! You can only shoot something down if you know it's there...neither China nor Russia knew the bombers were on their way, so their satellite observations did not pick up anything...if something needs to be in their air space before being detected, it will be too late...Moscow isn't all that far from where the bombs dropped in Iran...

Both Russia and China would have warned Iran if they detected this...they didn't...

Whoooshhh!!! Neither of us have any idea if the Russian's or the Chinese knew about the US operation. They could of known about it and tipped of the Iranian's but that doesn't mean Iran was in a position to do anything about it. It's not like Iran is integrated into Russia and Chinese air defence systems or have access to monitor them in real time. What do you expect the Iranian's to have done, move the damn mountain? There is also a world of difference between satellite observations and the various types of long range and short range radar that Russia and China have access too that Iran doesn't.

."Neither of us have any idea if the Russian's or the Chinese knew about the US operation"

We do...if they did, they would have warned Iran, they didn't...Ja ja...all Iran's fighter jets are all destroyed, né?...you do know how long it takes for a bomber to cross the Atlantic? Are you saying Iran had nothing to do anything about the bombers for several hours?

Stav

hen did Trump lie to the American people about what he is doing - the lies the Demcrats and that emptty head Boiden spread is ignored while so-called fact--checking is also based on lies, So was the Russian Hoax. Your hatred of Trump is bsed on lies you believe - that is super-idiotic and really pathetic,

But what is even worse - you beleive The Guardian - not a news media outlet - but an utra-leftist propaganda BS spreader Dumbm dumber and dumbest all in one.

The Guardian is the biggest slanted BS rag I've seen in years...worse than a comic book...how anyone takes anything from them seriously is beyond my humble logic.

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Anger you just wanted the mission to fail…..am I wrong?

We do...if they did, they would have warned Iran, they didn't...Ja ja...all Iran's fighter jets are all destroyed, né?...you do know how long it takes for a bomber to cross the Atlantic? Are you saying Iran had nothing to do anything about the bombers for several hours?

We do? Okay provide a break down of Iran's anti air capabilities and there operational status at the time of the US strike?

The Guardian is the biggest slanted BS rag I've seen in years...worse than a comic book...how anyone takes anything from them seriously is beyond my humble logic.

No one mentioned the Guardian other than Mike, who hypocritically cited the Guardian before when it suited him.

Anger you just wanted the mission to fail…..am I wrong?

I wouldn't have wanted the attack to go ahead in the first place for various reasons, but if it did it would be better if it succeeded in its goal than for it to fail as it would remove one significant problem from the medal east equation. What we appear to have got is not the worst case scenario, nor the best.

Now that your done misdirecting care to acknowledge that when Trump made his statement he couldn't have possibly known how effective the strike were or that when you were labelling them a clinical exercise when you did you were jumping the gun.

It seems liket the text posting is not working

Mark Rutte, the Nato secretary-general, has two jobs. The first is to lead the 32-member alliance at a time of unprecedented threat and challenges. His other equally significant task is to keep America, and in particular President Donald Trump, on side.

Rutte’s ability to sweet talk Trump is one of the reasons why he got the job of Nato chief

Rutte is in effect tasked with doing and saying whatever it takes to keep Trump sweet. Why so? For the simple and obvious reason that, without the US leader’s support, Nato is in even bigger trouble than ever. That is why the criticism of Rutte in some quarters for lavishing praise on Trump is misguided.

‘Congratulations and thank you for your decisive action in Iran, that was truly extraordinary, and something no one else dared to do,’ Rutte wrote in a text message to Trump. Is this sycophantic? Perhaps but so what? What else would his critics have Rutte do? Would it be better for Nato if its leader chose to pick a fight with Trump?

Rutte went on to congratulate the president for getting all Nato allies to agree to spend more on defence. ‘Europe is going to pay in a BIG way as they should, and it will be your win,’ Rutte’s message read. Trump, being Trump, gleefully shared a screenshot of the congratulatory text message while making his way to the Nato summit in the Hague.

The Nato chief heaped further praise on America’s role in his opening remarks to world leaders when talks got underway today. ‘For too long, one ally, the United States carried too much of the burden of that commitment, that changes today,’ he said. Asked about Trump’s profane language on the Israel-Iran conflict, Rutte said: ‘Daddy has to sometimes use strong language.’ Yes, it’s cringeworthy. But this is Rutte simply doing his job in keeping on the right side of Trump and ensuring the talks are a success.

Keeping the show on the road is no easy task. At one point there was speculation that the president might give the gathering a miss altogether. Nato isn’t much to Trump’s liking. At the 2018 summit during his first term, Trump hinted that the US might even leave the alliance. On Air Force One, en-route to the Hague, Trump was asked whether the US would abide by Nato’s article 5 guarantee that says that if one member of the alliance is attacked, it is considered as an attack on all, and other allies should take the actions deemed necessary to assist the country attacked. ‘Depends on your definition,’ Trump said. ‘There’s numerous definitions of article 5, you know that, right? But I’m committed to being their friends.’ It’s not exactly a cast-iron guarantee for the future.

That is why every effort has been made to ensure the Nato gathering is tailored to Trump’s wishes. It is a cut-down event. A single two-and-a-half- hour meeting is being held to sign off a brief communique confirming the new 5 per cent of GDP defence spending deal. Every step has been taken to ensure it fits Trump’s notoriously short attention span and impatience when it comes to talks with other leaders. Yet somewhat bizarrely, Rutte has even been getting flak for making the summit shorter to suit Trump. What’s he supposed to do? Stick to the usual timetable and find the president decides he has had enough and leaves early? That’s exactly what Trump did during the recent G7 leaders’ talks. What purpose does the Nato gathering serve if the main man, who ultimately controls the purse strings and the military might that keeps the alliance going, decamps early?

Rutte knows from bitter experience that striking the right tone is key when it comes to managing relations with the ever-unpredictable American leader. Everyone knows Trump loves – indeed expects, even demands – flattery. In fact, Rutte’s ability to sweet talk Trump is one of the reasons why he got the job of Nato chief. He demonstrated his diplomatic nous in deciding to visit Trump in Mar-a-Lago in November last year, when he was still president-elect. The former Dutch prime minister has even been nicknamed the ‘Trump whisperer’ because he is one of the few leaders capable of ticking along nicely with the president.

Those carping at Rutte now for ‘sucking up’ to Trump need to put a sock in it. There are much bigger issues at stake when it comes to Nato and the future security of Europe.

TESTING

"Now that your done misdirecting care to acknowledge that when Trump made his statement he couldn't have possibly known how effective the strike were or that when you were labelling them a clinical exercise when you did you were jumping the gun."

The POTUS has access to much better data sources and high level intelligence than the media...nobody knows what he knew or did not know when he made the statement...we know he likes to exaggerate, but we also know that most of MSM loves to downplay anything positive about Trump....as do you.

Now that your done misdirecting care to acknowledge that when Trump made his statement he couldn't have possibly known how effective the strike were or that when you were labelling them a clinical exercise when you did you were jumping the gun.

Apparently Trump just announced a ceasefire on Truth Social…..if true, it’s been a clinical exercise. 

Can you see the difference in my statement and what you purported to be my statement?

Keep it real, there’s a good chap.

FG

BB

Very funny cartoon - since it is total BS. You are too gullible and believe all the shit coming from The Guardian/ When Musk was involved he was the "Real President" and Trump was the dummy - now it is Netanjahu. Last I heard It was Trump who said Netanjahu is "fucking up" and an hour later the latter called back all the Israeli planes about to breach the ceasefire agreement by bombing Iran. That shows who is really in charge when it comes to the ME situation.

In the EU kingdoms other tha the UK there are in general 3 years compulsory army or navy service - in EU Republics there is no such thing - so now Trump forced the NATO counries to increase their armed service expenditure to 5% of GDP. For instance the UK Armed Force budget in 2024 was 59,8 billion pounds - it will have to be 165 billion per annum by 2028 and some form of compulsiry armed service training and service will have to be introduced, The same applied to all NATO countries,

So who is in charge in that case, So the NATO Secretary General wrote a letter addressed to the US President addressed to "Mr President" followed by "Dear Donald". So who is in charge in that case too,

Trump is years ahead in thinking of all the EU leaders and years ahead of the leftsts as well - he advocates economic improvement for all people in the world ahead of war and instability caused by wars and civil unrest and the rest of the world would be forced in following his example and line of thinking.

And in the USA it is creating serious political problems for a floundering Democratic Party with support according to opinion polls as low as 21%. So the Trump haters are getting less and less and it is really funny to see how you persist in it,

I watch Tennis matches regularly and it is surprising how the crowds at matches in Europe start shouting "USA - USA - USA" during matches even when no American players are involved. If Trump in theory runs as Prsident or Prime Minister in Europe e would win in 80% of the EU countries - that is not a healthy stuation to be in. The NATO country leadership should follow Trump's example to govern in the interet of the ordinary voters and not in the intests of their own political careers.

To be quite frank there is one major problem in that there is no medicine to fix "stupidity" of people on this site though, .

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"Now that your done misdirecting care to acknowledge that when Trump made his statement he couldn't have possibly known how effective the strike were."

I don't agree at all.....

Trump has access to so much more information and resources than anyone else on the entire planet, so he would always be in the best possible position to say something like that as fact, even given his history of exaggerations.

The media however, have already proven themselves to be so extemely bloody poor and biased in their reporting, which is why the public don't trust them much these days.

I see more and more people are relying on X to get their daily news, than the usual mainstream media.... no surprise at all

TESting

UIUo... die bord werk nie so lekker nie vir my.

Asked about Trump’s profane language on the Israel-Iran conflict, Rutte said: ‘Daddy has to sometimes use strong language.’ Yes, it’s cringeworthy. That part was hilarious. Trump comparing the conflict to kids bickering was comedy. In liberalism, people who vote consent to this kind of stuff.

my initial post drew a blank yet my update's ok.

The POTUS has access to much better data sources and high level intelligence than the media...nobody knows what he knew or did not know when he made the statement.

He does have access to much better data sources and high level intelligence than the media. That's not the issue, the issue is that it would next to impossible to know the extent of the damage done to an underground facility in the time frame before he gave his announcement.

..we know he likes to exaggerate, but we also know that most of MSM loves to downplay anything positive about Trump....as do you.

And we people like yourself are just incapable of critical thinking when it comes to Trump. Any criticism can be dismissed as orange man bad.

Stav

We are able of critcal thinking - but are you? No indication of that on your part. Wh atever Trump does is automatically rejected by you as being wronmg - with no real facts to support th assumption. That represents prejudice and hatred - it does not represent critical thinking.

Critical thinking comes in on firstly whether there are solid reasons for certain actions Trump is taking and once that is clear - whether the methods used are not wrong, Trump - supported by virtually all countries - want to prevent Iran - governed by fanatical Muslim dictatorship promoting terrorism worldwide who hated everyone not supporting the Sharia sect of Islam is a prlme example where nobody would like to see that they develop nuclear arms and rokets to attack countries worldwide if the Iran eladers decide on how it wouldd adance the Sharia sect, Muslim countries like Turkey, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the UAE in the main is part of the Sunni sect and not expecting noral and accepted norms in Government they don't want Iran to comply with espcially when armed with nuclear arms. That is the real norm worldwide,

Even Russia and Cina does not want it - especially since there is a part of China and Rusia with a substantial Muslim population and those people are oppressed by the Chinese regime, so if the Ayatollah decide to take action China and Russia will also be under theat, In fact that is what the world in general wants from Nucler armd contries is a real situation where only a Government at least accountable for its actions are in existence

The only other countries with nuclear arms are Security Council members and accountable to the people in te case of USA - UK - France - China and Russia, Russia is a quasi tye od Gvenrment ith elements of democracy - too few if you ask me - while China is a dicttorship. India is a real democracy - the bigest population country based on democracy in the world - Pakistan is much in line with teh Russian situation and North Korea is under totalc ontrol of the Chinese, That leaves us with Iran if they get nuclear-armed. Nobody want that and that is the real situation.

Now we get to critical thnking. What methods should be used to prevent Irn from becoming nulclear armed, That is where critical thinkers differ on methodology and that is were discussions should lead to, Is a war the answer - I think not since Wars cause suffering and the Ukraine is just one example,

So t my mind eaceful negotiation is supposed to be the answer. There can in critical thinking be differnces on methods used and if Trump tries to settle the issue by negotiations the question should be is his approach correct. It seems the NATO members in general think he is correct in his apprach - but not the leftits because they hate him as a person. But Trump is not a diplomat and sometimes - like in the ase o Canada - he has weird ideas, He can be a bloody difficult prson to derstand and also to some extent self-centered and opinionated - really good points insofar as criticism is concerned,

In essense I believe Trump is a crude New York businessman and not a real politician. He can be and is at times rude and unpredictable - but in fact a really good manager and he understands what can have negative economic impacts. He is a diffcult person to deal with - once h amkes up his mind on issues he will orce implmenttion even if t Republican Party Congress memebers object to some of is ideas.

Trump is close to the ideas of Kennedy as President as he is to the ideas of the present Democrats and Republicans. I ave my dounts abot aspects of Trumps methods he uses - but his broader ideas I support - with a number if issues I differ from him when it comes to implementation.

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Emmmmm….when you actually give Trump credit for something he has done, you can lecture others about ‘critical thinking’ Anger. Your modus is always to look for the negative, the Iran strike being an obvious example. Parroting the conventional left wing view isn’t ’critical thinking’. Being completely unable to accept a win without looking for a negative, any negative, isn’t critical thinking. It’s bias.

Any chance you are going to correct your attack on my ‘clinical exercise’ comment.

BB

Rutte was the Prime Minister of the Netherlands and as such was a severe critic of the Trump Administration and the RO28 Felix Auger-Aliassime 1 735 1 825 #P conduct when it came to Ukraine and was a top supporter in he Netherlands, At the previous NATO confernce last year - where Biden was to far gone mentally that he could not really participate Rutte criticized Trump severely,

He lost the premiership o the Netherlands when the Concertvatives got contro pf the Dutch Senate making life impossible for the Government to function and called for an election in November 2023 - where his aprty lost support to the Conservstives and he wa not prepared to serve in a Cabnet where the Conservatives had a major say, Rutte is no actor - but a very good manager, He also was aa c;ose fried of the King and could get a job as Ambassador to any country of is joice,

However, the Dutch was annongst the NATO countries the strongest critic of Trump and the Republicans iro the Ukraine War so 100% of what you quoted above is BS supreme. If they want to appoint somebody to sweet talk Trump why was he appointed as Secetary on 1 October 2024 before the 2024 election took place, The negotiations as to the appointment started in Jauary 2024 - since his appointment needed the support of all NATO member countries, So how would they know to appoint Rutte months before the 2024 SA Presidential election. Ask yourelf that question and realize that BS is not really welcoe on his site,

Stav do me a favor and read what General Caine said about the Bunker bombs and why they were developed and how they were used in the Fordow attack:-

President Donald Trump’s historic precision strikes on Iran’s nuclear sites Saturday hit their targets and "destroyed" and "badly damaged" the facilities’ critical infrastructure — an assessment agreed upon by Iran’s Foreign Ministry, Israel and the United States.

"Our nuclear installations have been badly damaged, that’s for sure," Iran’s Foreign Ministry spokesman Ismail Baghaei told Al Jazeera.

Israel’s Defense Forces Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Eyal Zamir said its assessment is that Iran’s nuclear program has been "significantly damaged," while Israel’s Atomic Energy Commission described the U.S. strikes as "devastating."

"The devastating U.S. strike on Fordow destroyed the site’s critical infrastructure and rendered the enrichment facility inoperable," Israel’s Atomic Energy Commission said. "We assess that the American strikes on Iran’s nuclear facilities, combined with Israeli strikes on other elements of Iran’s military nuclear program, has set back Iran’s ability to develop nuclear weapons by many years."

It added: "The achievement can continue indefinitely if Iran does not get access to nuclear material."

And as for the United States, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Dan "Razin" Caine said that initial battle damage assessments indicate that "all three sites sustained extremely severe damage and destruction."

"More than 125 U.S. aircraft participated in this mission, including B-2 stealth bombers, multiple flights of fourth and fifth generation fighters, dozens and dozens of air refueling tankers, a guided missile submarine, and a full array of intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance aircraft, as well as hundreds of maintenance and operational professionals," Caine said in a press briefing.

Pentagon officials say the U.S. military had been tracking Iran's Fordow nuclear facility since 2009 before launching Saturday's strike targeting the site's ventilation shafts.

Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Dan Caine made the revelation during a Thursday press conference, telling reporters that the military had developed weapons for the specific purpose of penetrating Fordow.

Caine said the Defense Threat Reduction Agency (DTRA) had been monitoring Fordow's construction since 2009, with a pair of officers noting "the weather, the discard material, the geology, the construction materials, where the materials came from," and other details.

"They literally dreamed about this target at night when they slept," Caine said of the DTRA team. "They thought about it driving back and forth to work. And they knew from the very first days what this was for. You do not build a multilayered underground bunker complex with centrifuges and other equipment in a mountain for any peaceful purpose."

"Along the way, they realized we did not have a weapon that could adequately strike and kill this target. So they began a journey to work with industry and other tacticians to develop the GBU 57," he said.

"Yesterday, I had the incredible honor and privilege of spending time with these two Defense Threat Reduction Agency officers who've given so much," Caine continued. "One of them said, quote, 'I can't even get my head around this. My heart is so filled with the pride of being a part of this team. I am so honored to be a part of this.'"

The above indicates what you cerly believe BS spread by te media. You should also know that the US Government knew sine 2009 whatw as happening on a virtual gasily basis what happened at the Fordow base,. Satellite videos shwed that it awa sconcreate carriers not suitable for transporty of enrich uranium. The Iraians were working on protecting the entry into the underground system;

Emmmmm….when you actually give Trump credit for something he has done, you can lecture others about ‘critical thinking’ Anger. Your modus is always to look for the negative, the Iran strike being an obvious example. Parroting the conventional left wing view isn’t ’critical thinking’. Being completely unable to accept a win without looking for a negative, any negative, isn’t critical thinking. It’s bias.

Like the multiple times I gave him credit for Operation Warpspeed or the Abraham Accords, this being the second time I'm reminding you of that, quite a selective memory you have there, you been hanging out with Biden?

‘Like’ that happened in his former term… nothing he has done since, like helping India and Pakistan settle down has been worth a mention. Who do you think you are kidding?

ROFL...talking about move the goal posts.

Moz: You never gave Trump any credit.

Me: What about the multiple occasions I gave him credit in the past.

Moz: No it has to be credit given during a timeframe I approve of but previously never specified!

At the time, I said I was 50/50 about bombing the Iranian nuclear stations. However, upon reflection, I think it was a good decision. It appears as though they intentionally built it underground to protect it from being attacked. At first, I assumed this was for mining purposes, but it seems the processing plant is underground. However, perhaps Trump should have bombed it before announcing it, as it seems the Iranians did transport an unknown percentage to another location

However, perhaps Trump should have bombed it before announcing it, as it seems the Iranians did transport an unknown percentage to another location

batshit

He did bomb it before announcing it...and they bombed because they saw the truck traffic in the area...whatever they have moved wasn't done recently.

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TDS loons will loon on for the next 3.5 years...batshit indeed.

"However, perhaps Trump should have bombed it before announcing it, as it seems the Iranians did transport an unknown percentage to another location"

This was one of the most secret warfare operations of the last century.... nothing at all was announced before it occurred, so not sure why you are saying Trump got it wrong here.... he did everything 100% correct.

Nobody really knows what was on those trucks days before the bombing, we can only surmise, but I would assume it contained some enriched uranium to some degree.

I think what Shark meant to say is that Trump should not have done the whole "I may attack, I may not attack" in the run up to actual attack.

This was one of the most secret warfare operations of the last century.... nothing at all was announced before it occurred, so not sure why you are saying Trump got it wrong here.... he did everything 100% correct.

Trump wired it up the week before the attack, He left several messages on social media that hinted at an attack. It was so bad that high ranked officer stated that Trump was the biggest threat to operational secret or something.

Amazing...