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FORUM / MIKES GRIPES /  No there was no peace deal blown up by the West

No there was no peace deal blown up by the West

Started by Mozart11 REPLIES6,395 VIEWS· 03 Jul 2023, 14:18
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
03 Jul 2023, 14:18
#1
03 Jul 2023, 14:18#1

 Sept 14 (Reuters) - Vladimir Putin's chief envoy on Ukraine told the Russian leader as the war began that he had struck a provisional deal with Kyiv that would satisfy Russia's demand that Ukraine stay out of NATO, but Putin rejected it and pressed ahead with his military campaign, according to three people close to the Russian leadership.

The Ukrainian-born envoy, Dmitry Kozak, told Putin that he believed the deal he had hammered out removed the need for Russia to pursue a large-scale occupation of Ukraine, according to these sources. Kozak's recommendation to Putin to adopt the deal is being reported by Reuters for the first time.

Putin had repeatedly asserted prior to the war that NATO and its military infrastructure were creeping closer to Russia's borders by accepting new members from eastern Europe, and that the alliance was now preparing to bring Ukraine into its orbit too. Putin publicly said that represented an existential threat to Russia, forcing him to react.

But, despite earlier backing the negotiations, Putin made it clear when presented with Kozak's deal that the concessions negotiated by his aide did not go far enough and that he had expanded his objectives to include annexing swathes of Ukrainian territory, the sources said. The upshot: the deal was dropped.

Asked about Reuters findings, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said: "That has absolutely no relation to reality. No such thing ever happened. It is absolutely incorrect information."

Kozak did not respond to requests for comment sent via the Kremlin.

Mykhailo Podolyak, an adviser to the Ukrainian president, said Russia had used the negotiations as a smokescreen to prepare for its invasion, but he did not respond to questions about the substance of the talks nor confirm that a preliminary deal was reached. "Today, we clearly understand that the Russian side has never been interested in a peaceful settlement," Podolyak said.

Two of the three sources said a push to get the deal finalized occurred immediately after Russia's Feb. 24 invasion. Within days, Kozak believed he had Ukraine's agreement to the main terms Russia had been seeking and recommended to Putin that he sign an agreement, the sources said.

"After Feb. 24, Kozak was given carte blanche: they gave him the green light; he got the deal. He brought it back and they told him to clear off. Everything was cancelled. Putin simply changed the plan as he went along," said one of the sources close to the Russian leadership.

The third source - who was told about the events by people who were briefed on the discussions between Kozak and Putin - differed on the timing, saying Kozak had proposed the deal to Putin, and had it rejected, just before the invasion. The sources all requested anonymity to share sensitive internal information.

Moscow's offensive in Ukraine is the largest military campaign in Europe since World War II. It prompted sweeping economic sanctions against Russia and military support for Ukraine from Washington and its Western allies.

Even if Putin had acquiesced to Kozak's plan, it remains uncertain if the war would have ended. Reuters was unable to verify independently that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy or senior officials in his government were committed to the deal.

Kozak, who is 63, has been a loyal lieutenant to Putin since working with him in the 1990s in the St. Petersburg mayor's office.

Kozak was well-placed to negotiate a peace deal because since 2020 Putin had tasked him with conducting talks with Ukrainian counterparts about the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine, which has been controlled by Russian-backed separatists following an uprising in 2014. After leading the Russian delegation in talks with Ukrainian officials in Berlin on Feb. 10 – brokered by France and Germany – Kozak told a late-night news conference that the latest round of those negotiations had ended without a breakthrough.

Kozak also was one of those present when, three days before the invasion, Putin gathered his military and security chiefs and key aides in the Kremlin's Yekaterinsky hall for a meeting of Russia's Security Council.

State television cameras recorded part of the meeting, where Putin laid out plans to give formal recognition to separatist entities in eastern Ukraine.

Once the cameras were ushered out of the vast room with its neo-classical columns and domed ceiling, Kozak spoke out against Russia taking any steps to escalate the situation with Ukraine, said two of the three people close to the Russian leadership, as well as a third person who learned about what happened from people who took part in the meeting.

Another individual interviewed by Reuters, who helped in the post-invasion talks, said discussions fell apart in early March when Ukrainian officials understood Putin was committed to pressing ahead with the large-scale invasion.

Six months on from the start of the war, Kozak remains in his post as Kremlin deputy chief of staff. But he is no longer handling the Ukraine dossier, according to six of the sources who spoke to Reuters.

"From what I can see, Kozak is nowhere to be seen," said one of the six, a source close to the separatist leadership in eastern Ukraine.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
03 Jul 2023, 15:54
#2
03 Jul 2023, 15:54#2

Mozart

Sorry - but you must be getting dementia for you are coming  up with BS from a newspaper report on what a Ukrainian said about the issue.  What really happened was different. from what actually according to you happened.   The article dealt with a so-called negotiations between Russia and Ukraine in Belarus..  

Macron in the first week in February went to Moscow in a desperate attempt to avoid the war.   At the meeting  with PUTIN - nobody else - it was agreed that all that is needed is to implement the Minsk agreement and implementation processes being put in place.    The story is a fabrication and you are stupid enough to believe it. 

From Moscow Macron went to Kiev and after meeting with Zelenskyy the two of them gave a press conference where it was announced that agreement has been reached on the issue of implementation of the Minsk agreement implementation process and program is to be developed.

When the African leaders met with Putin and he gave them copies of the signed agreement.  If there were no agreement  both Macron and Zelenskyy  would have denied that it existed.    There was a deal and somebody or something  sabotaged the agreement.   The one totally dictatorial measure was the arrest  the Russian speaking members of the Kiev Parliament after the Macron negotiated agreement that  would be a serious breach that would sabotage the agreement.

The only other negotiations on ministerial high level after he start of the war took place in Turkey and was after the war started.  

Both negotiations were sabotaged by Washington.   

Your story you posted only talks taking place on  lower level  in Belarus was about creation of a security route for refugees and exchange of POW's - nothing on anything else.   

Why-do you make a fool of yourself again.   Why don't you cross-checks to ensure you are dealing wtih the real issue and not the US propaganda dealing with topics             

 

         

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
03 Jul 2023, 16:20
#4
03 Jul 2023, 16:20#4
So who do I believe, the top international news source for almost two centuries, with a reputation for reliable reporting….or an old coot isolated in Riversdale who is unable to post a source for any of his blathering, even though his sources are obviously all right wing conspiracy sites.
MO
MoonroverPro1,973 posts
03 Jul 2023, 16:23
#5
03 Jul 2023, 16:23#5

Ole Mozzie is delusional. The USA assured they wouldn't advance any further when the Berlin wall was broken down.

USA just breaks promises as they continue on their merry way. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
03 Jul 2023, 16:31
#6
03 Jul 2023, 16:31#6

I am on record as saying the US should have been far more accommodating to Russia after the wall fell. Much of the blame rests with the deep state that loves to hate Russia. The Russia hoax wasn’t produced in a vacuum. The negativity towards the Socchi games, for example, was a bad mistake.

That said there is no existential threat to Russia. There is no desire in the west to invade Russia….zero! The only threat was to Putin and his ilk as the population was more exposed to Western society.

So this is a trumped up war which has had vast human consequences for which there are some dishonest rationales but no excuses .

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
04 Jul 2023, 05:35
#7
04 Jul 2023, 05:35#7

Mozart

You believe news reports and not reality.   You quote peace negotiations after the war started.   The only ministerial level negotiations was fully documented and took place in Turkey and was reported on in the media.   

You deny the negotiations before the invasion initiated by Macron in February 2022  and involving visits by Macron to Moscow and Kiev also recorded in the media.   That led to a peace agreement signed by Zelesnkyy and Putin.   In fact there was a press announcement on TV where both Zelenskyy and Macron were  optimistic about the  implementation of the Minsk agreement of 2015.

The Reuters news story came from statements made by an official - not on Government Heads of State or ministerial level held in Belarus  AFTER the start of the invasion.   You found that article to lie about what happened as to the Macon negotiations - same as the BS spreading by you about genocide - when the issue under discussion was ethnic cleansing.    

Please Mozart - try to think about what really happened before you post media BS on site.   What you wrote in both cases were total BS an showed no thinking ability on your part.               

           

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Jul 2023, 06:25
#8
04 Jul 2023, 06:25#8

I seriously wonder what the heck has happened to Mozz. Unless I was hopelessly mistaken he used to be a reasonable person etc. The Mozz today specializes in lying and deceit. 

It's actually very sad to see. 

It's obvious a real peace agreement was indeed signed. It's obvious that this peace agreement was scuppered by the US led NATO. Zelensky does what his masters tell him to do. 

This is a US NATO instigated war. The facts prove that comprehensively

Wishing Mozz a return to mental health.

Compliments to Mike for another outstanding contribution. Mike is definitely the boards historian. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
04 Jul 2023, 15:10
#9
04 Jul 2023, 15:10#9

Don’t tell me Clever….cut and paste a credible report. Do you really believe no mainstream news source would report a peace agreement having been reached? 

As for the official you try to trash Reuters describes him thus:

 Sept 14 (Reuters) - Vladimir Putin's chief envoy on Ukraine told the Russian leader as the war began that he had struck a provisional deal with Kyiv that would satisfy Russia's demand that Ukraine stay out of NATO


…..his ‘chief envoy’ , who better to describe the state of negotiations.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Jul 2023, 10:43
#10
06 Jul 2023, 10:43#10

 Damn it -  you are indeed becoming idiotic.   The news conferences after the Macron-Putin meeting was by the two Presidents - not an announcement by an official.    The same applied to the meeting between Macron and Zelenskyy.

The meeting in Belarus was not apart of any peace negotiations were through the meetings with Macron and through the Turkish mediation effort done on foreign Minister level after the invasion started.  So what arrangement outcome was announced by a Russian official?   Seems you are suffering from an elution about what is normal procedures following country leaders meet.    But then it may be the case with Biden when he is noncompusmentus suffering from nincompoop disease.   

If there was no agreement signed why did the  French and  Ukraine Presidents not deny that such an agreement was signed as claimed by Russia.    The answer is simple - there was an agreement signed and it fell apart on he instruction of either Biden or his servant in Ikraine Zelenskyy.    

Must we believe what the leaders involved said about the negotiations or believe the BS the media spread and lapped up by you?             

                

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Jul 2023, 10:43
#11
06 Jul 2023, 10:43#11


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Jul 2023, 13:09
#12
06 Jul 2023, 13:09#12

If there was a peace deal it would have been reported in a credible media source. You have failed to produce anything like that. Here is AP’s take, again, no deal:

‘ Representatives from the four countries met in Paris on Jan. 26, securing no progress but they agreed to hold the session in Berlin on Thursday, with a goal to agree on a common interpretation of the Minsk agreements.

French President Emmanuel Macron sought to revive the Minsk deal during his visits to Moscow and Kyiv this week, describing it as “the only path allowing to build peace ... and find a sustainable political solution.”

THE PRESSURE ON UKRAINE

Facing Western calls for the implementation of the Minsk deal, Ukrainian officials have become increasingly critical of the document.

Oleksiy Danilov, the secretary of Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council, told The Associated Press last week the deal was signed “under a Russian gun barrel,” and warned that “the fulfillment of the Minsk agreement means the country’s destruction.”

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba argued that Moscow aims to use the deal to have the rebel regions reintegrated into Ukraine and use them to block the country’s pro-Western aspirations, vowing: “This is not going to happen.”

Zelenskyy was more diplomatic but noted that he dislikes every point of the Minsk document, a comment that drew a taunting and crude remark from Russian President Vladimir Putin.

“Like it or not, you have to bear with it, my beauty,” Putin quipped, using a coarse verse from Russian folklore. “You have to fulfill it. It will not work otherwise.”’


— END OF THREAD —

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