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FORUM / MIKES GRIPES /  Putin & Trump Agree Ukraine Peace Surrender Plan

Putin & Trump Agree Ukraine Peace Surrender Plan

Started by sharkbok26 REPLIES436 VIEWS· 21 Nov 2025, 02:44
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SH
sharkbokCaptain20,097 posts
21 Nov 2025, 02:44
#1
21 Nov 2025, 02:44#1
Summary of Reported Trump Peace Plan (as Published by Ukrainian MP & Media)


Core Political and Security Provisions

  1. Ukraine does not join NATO.
  2. Ukraine may join the EU.
  3. Ukraine remains a non-nuclear state.
  4. Both sides agree not to change borders by force.
  5. NATO does not deploy troops in Ukraine.
  6. NATO stations fighter aircraft in Poland.
  7. Russia enshrines a legislative non-aggression policy towards Ukraine and Europe.
  8. A legally binding agreement enforced by a “Peace Council” chaired by Donald Trump.


Territorial Arrangements

  1. Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk are recognised as Russian territory.
  2. Kherson and Zaporizhzhia become “frozen zones” along the current line of contact.
  3. Ukrainian troops withdraw from the Kyiv-controlled part of Donetsk oblast; this territory becomes
  4. internationally recognised as Russian, and
  5. a demilitarised zone under Russian control.


Military Limitations on Ukraine

  1. The size of the Ukrainian Armed Forces is capped.
  2. Ukraine retains no nuclear weapons.


Economic, Reconstruction and Sanctions Provisions

  1. US$100 billion of frozen Russian assets go to Ukraine’s reconstruction;
  2. The United States receives 50% of the profits.
  3. Europe contributes an additional US$100 billion.
  4. Remaining Russian assets go to joint American-Russian investment projects.
  5. Russia receives:
  6. sanctions relief,
  7. gradual return to global markets,
  8. G8 membership reinstated.
  9. A major US–US-European investment package supports Ukraine’s recovery.
  10. Long-term US–Russia economic cooperation is launched.


Humanitarian and Civil Provisions

  1. All-for-all prisoner exchange, including civilians and children.
  2. Amnesty for all participants in the war.
  3. Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant restarts under IAEA supervision; electricity is split 50/50 between Ukraine and Russia.
  4. The United States helps restore Ukraine’s gas infrastructure.
  5. National elections in Ukraine were held 100 days after signing the agreement.


Compliance and Enforcement

  1. If Russia violates the agreement, sanctions are re-imposed.
  2. If Ukraine violates the agreement: US and European security guarantees are withdrawn.
  3. Ceasefire and withdrawal to agreed positions occur immediately upon signature.


Extended Trump Plan (Structured Summary)


1. Sovereignty & Core Guarantees

  1. Ukraine’s sovereignty formally confirmed.
  2. A full non-aggression pact between Russia, Ukraine, and Europe.
  3. Russia commits not to invade neighbours; NATO commits to no further expansion.
  4. Ukraine receives reliable security guarantees.


2. Ukrainian Military Status

  1. Ukrainian Armed Forces limited to 600,000 personnel.
  2. Ukraine amends its constitution to renounce NATO membership permanently.
  3. NATO modifies its statutes to exclude Ukraine indefinitely.


3. NATO & Regional Security Arrangements

  1. NATO not permitted to deploy troops inside Ukraine.
  2. European fighter aircraft stationed in Poland as part of the security framework.
  3. US mediates Russia–NATO security dialogue on de-escalation and cooperation.


4. US Security Guarantees to Ukraine

  1. The US receives compensation for providing guarantees.
  2. Conditions under which Ukraine loses the guarantee:
  3. If Ukraine invades Russia.
  4. If Ukraine launches a missile at Moscow or St Petersburg without cause.
  5. Conditions under which Russia loses benefits:
  6. If Russia invades Ukraine, all sanctions return immediately and all recognition or benefits are revoked.


5. European Integration

  1. Ukraine retains the right to EU membership.
  2. Receives preferential access to the European market while membership is under consideration.


6. Reconstruction & Investment Framework


Global Reconstruction Package

  1. A Ukraine Development Fund for high-growth sectors (technology, AI, data centres, etc.).
  2. US and Europe jointly lead reconstruction and investment.

Use of Frozen Russian Assets

  1. US$100 billion deployed to reconstruction under US management.
  2. The US receives 50% of the profits.
  3. Europe adds US$100 billion.
  4. European-frozen Russian assets are unfrozen.
  5. Remaining Russian assets placed into a US–Russia investment vehicle for joint future projects.


7. Russia’s Reintegration

  1. Gradual and individual lifting of sanctions.
  2. A long-term US–Russia cooperation framework in:
  3. energy,
  4. natural resources,
  5. infrastructure,
  6. artificial intelligence,
  7. Arctic projects,
  8. rare-earth mining,
  9. data centres,
  10. and other corporate initiatives.
  11. Russia invited back to the G8.


8. Governance & Oversight

  1. A joint US–Russia security working group monitors compliance.
  2. Russia legally enshrines non-aggression toward Europe and Ukraine.


BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
21 Nov 2025, 05:13
#2
21 Nov 2025, 05:13#2
Putin's 'wishlist' peace plan


DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
21 Nov 2025, 05:36
#3
21 Nov 2025, 05:36#3

They've thrown Zelensky under a bus. How the hell could they draw up a plan without his input.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Nov 2025, 06:08
#4
21 Nov 2025, 06:08#4

So what else did Ukraine have to do with Ukraiene territory Most of the terrtory lost stemmed from what happened in 2014 when Ukraine made an unconstitutional change of Government and he civil war in Eastern Ukraine broke out,


The Ukraine Government will have to be constitutional if Ukraine is to become a member of the EU and strict control over the present level of corruption will have to be eliminated and a new Constitution be required by the EU.


What is clear is that the Zelenskyy Government is defnitely going to be eliminated before EU membership protocols are to be complied with,


Capping the Ukrraine army to consist of 600 000 troops is double the army strengths of France, Germany and the UK combined and also 200 000 more than Turkey has as a NATO member, So Ukraine will not be defenseless as the figure implies,


If you think the plan has not got the approval of the NATO allies in Europe you must be kidding yourself, That story of the New York Times a week ago indicates indicated that Zelenskky is not going to get financial or other support from Europe under the present senario. and it could be better for Zelesnkyy to try and find life in Ukraine and EU countries and he USA to continue, His only home that will not be eliminated is the one he owns in Israel or in Swotzerland. He also owns one in Florida, but that would not be safe to live in especially since ot would be subject to the inevitable links to bribery and corruption after the links with corrupt US poltiians are exposed through EU audits,


Leading US polticians like Clinton, the Biden, Pelosi and Shiff crime families will end up in jail despite Biden pardoning them during his last month pof Biden's presidency. Fact is Bden as being totally a dementia case will never go to court , but his wife and son - as well as his brother is bound to end up in jail, Pelosi will also be gotten away with it because she is going to be not charged in US courts because of her age and mental state at present, The rest is not going to b e that lucky,


The Democratic Party members are going to be in the same level of shit ex-Senator Menendez is suffering from at present, An eleven year jail sentence is on the cards already - without his involvement in Ukraine corruption even dealt with. Memnedez's one function - namely sign off on all US Foreigbn Aid programs that is going to be dealt with as well and it goes much wider in respect of USAID to Ukraine and applies to USAID wordwide as Menendez had as Chairman of the Senate Foreigb Affairs Committee had to sign off in all cases of Foreign aid to countries worlswide that Rubio has already suspended due to corruption within and outside of the USA,


The result was that funds of USAID was used to fund Soros in his campaign to undermine the US and was part of the Foreign Aid projects handled by USAID before the Aid organization was cancelled out and already stopped anyway,


As to what is to be expected is that the USA media will go into afrenzy about Ukraine issue - but also the corruption in the Democratic Party itself, So start with your fact-checking sources as well.


The Chinese have a curse when using the following saying :"May you live in interesting times", That is going to happen to corrupt USA polititians in particular, There are also some Republican politicians as well who are on the shit list as well.



CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Nov 2025, 06:24
#5
21 Nov 2025, 06:24#5

Denny


Because Zelenskyy was involved in massive corruption and stealing of foreign aid money and arms supplies as well. Zelenskyy will not survive in any Ukraine election that was supposed to have happened in 2024 and never took place,


In any event he would not survive in any Ukraine election anyway. So he has no real standing in the situation at present or in future. The funding of bio-labs in Ukraine has already been stopped and all the remaining bio-labs will be closed down,


In terms of the 1991 costitution of Ukraine abandoned in 2014 Ukraine will not have any nuclear arms and that will remain in place in future,









DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
21 Nov 2025, 08:12
#6
21 Nov 2025, 08:12#6

"They've thrown Zelensky under a bus. How the hell could they draw up a plan without his input."



What makes you think that?

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Nov 2025, 08:51
#7
21 Nov 2025, 08:51#7

Draad


Let me clear up things a bit. Zelenskyy does not want the war to end because as long as the war continue he has the excuse to remain President without an election be held - there was to be an election held in 2024 and that election was postponed indefinitely because of the War.


Any peace treaty or joining of the EU would mean the election of 2024 will have to be held immediately and Zelensky will not be re-elected.


Every site member who turned Zelenskyy into a saint is not ware that he is not going to win another election in Ukraine held under EU supervision since he and his cronies were involved in state corruption on a massive scale and people in Ukraine know it and are not going to support him in any future election.





ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
21 Nov 2025, 11:22
#8
21 Nov 2025, 11:22#8

This proposed plan which I think the American's are saying is not finalized is destined to go nowhere. Simply far too one sided for Ukraine and Europe to accept .

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
21 Nov 2025, 11:57
#9
21 Nov 2025, 11:57#9

Rather continue the slaughter then.

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
21 Nov 2025, 12:22
#10
21 Nov 2025, 12:22#10

Disingenuous as ever then.



CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Nov 2025, 12:44
#11
21 Nov 2025, 12:44#11

Never mind that - whatever plan came up will not have the support of Zelenskyy at all, He wants the war to coninue to prevent holding elections in Ukriane and unlike many believe Zelenskyy's political survival depends on no elections be held in Ukraine,


That New York Times article on Ukraine corruption a week ago is not going to help Zelenskyy in his battle to keep the war going with funding from the USA providing more aid than the NATO countries combined,


As far as I understand it is a draft plan gven to the NATO leaders and they have th right to suggest changes - so we will see whether any changes are made by the NATO members,


But there is another angle in public the NATO countries will play accordingly and publicly condemn the treaty and then prove nothing to support rebuiding of Ukraine, may say oppose the conditions and in privote would do nothing and the place supply no funding from the USA and NATO supporters in NATO support will count for nothing ,




DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
22 Nov 2025, 08:47
#12
22 Nov 2025, 08:47#12

"Disingenuous as ever then."


No, just anxious for a war that should never have happened in the first place to end...and you seem to be OK if it continues unless Europe/Ukraine gets everything they demand.

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
22 Nov 2025, 10:06
#13
22 Nov 2025, 10:06#13

No, just anxious for a war that should never have happened in the first place to end


That's an utterly meaningless phrase. What you are really saying is you wish Ukraine just surrendered and from your point of view their is no particular difference between Ukraine and Russia, self defence is the same as invading another country.


and you seem to be OK if it continues unless Europe/Ukraine gets everything they demand.


More disingenuous shite. For months the Ukrainian position which is supported by the Europeans is that they willing to effectively freeze the conflict in place and leave roughly 20% of Ukrainian territory in Russian hands for the time being. That is an absolutely enormous concession from a country that's suffered an unprovoked attack. But I guess Ukraine wanting some sort of deal that isn't surrender is pretty unreasonable?




MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Nov 2025, 14:57
#14
22 Nov 2025, 14:57#14

I’m all for a peace Deal. But this deal is hopelessly biased in Russia’s favor. Take the limitation on the size of the Ukranian army for example. Ukraine is never going to invade Russia, not is NATO. The only impact of that provision is to make future Russian aggression easier.


The only reason to sign this deal now would be if Ukraine is facing imminent collapse and Russia would not be accepting any deal if that was the case. Perhaps this is designed to be improved with Ukranian input. But in Putin’s eyes that would make him look weak, so it’s hard to get there from here.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
22 Nov 2025, 18:12
#15
22 Nov 2025, 18:12#15

Disingenuous my arse...it's a starting point for negotiation...and don't put words in my mouth...I never said Ukraine should accept the deal...I fully expect them to come to the table and hammer out some details...but you seem to be outright rejecting it...

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
23 Nov 2025, 02:12
#16
23 Nov 2025, 02:12#16

There’s only one word for the so-called peace deal—dumb! Ukraine and the EU should’ve been involved in the negotiations from the start, but in another huge blunder, both were given no say. To make things even worse, the EU now has to shell out $100 billion for Ukraine’s rebuilding without having any say in the negotiations. Good enough to fork out the dollars but not good enough to have a say.

The more you examine the proposed peace deal, which is entirely in Putin's favor, the more it becomes clear how insane it is.

To add to the insanity Zelensky must decide the future of his country by Thursday with the threat of a loaded gun pointing in his face if he doesn't agree to its demands. Nice work from Donald the Lunatic.


Begone, knuckleheads... they have a talent for making the Kremlin break into cartwheels and high fives.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Nov 2025, 13:46
#17
23 Nov 2025, 13:46#17

I think there is one thing that went missing in Sharks and the other warmongers and that is that the plan has been drafted bearing in mind to save Ukraine from final de struction and leave it protected by putting more forces in Poland to counter Russia.


It si also designed to help Europe to recove economically, There are Russian fnds frozen in EU countries which amounts to more than $100 billion that is ssug gested to be sued for a recovey plan for Ukraine.


Turkey is a NTO ally but not allowed by the EU because of election issues and lax cntrol iro bribery and corruption. Ukraine can be in he same situation. Before creditable elections deelayed since 2024 there is no chance het Ukraine will be admitted to the EU, S erbia is in the same boat. as Ukraine will be.


Austriia is another country who have EU status but refsued to join NATO because of the Russian wthdrawal a greement of 1955, Ukraine soverignty can be guaranted by troops stationed in Poland.


The other problem is that the Ukraine War has caused havoc in Europe and declining economies as the result. A peace agreement will lead to cheaper Russian inpits that would and could elad to an econmic revival in countries like Germany, France and Italy, as well as the UK. German economic output has shrunk since 2022 and that is affecting the whoe of Europe.


In any event the document published above is a summary and a basis for engotiation with due re gardto inuts from the European allies, What is in t he details is totally missing from the above - only fools wlll believe thsa the above summary is all that is in the peace plan itself, in essense the full document will be provide the full report submitted to the EU leaders to serve ss a bssis for their imputs before the enxr phase od documentation provided,


So all the prima donna comments on this site thus far is BS supreme, It is by no way a final agreement between Putn and Trump as alleged above,


The othet thing is the "summary" was releaased by the Kiev Government and is likely to be BS to try and get allies for continuaton of the War. A Sunmnary can be made that nakes a miockery of what is avtually n the peace plan. No journalist had acccess to the full plan and the Kiev verson is apparently BS released by the Ukraine Government - who wants the war to continue because any peace treaty will result in an election in Ukraine where the pressent lot had no chance of winning.


.





BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
23 Nov 2025, 20:49
#18
23 Nov 2025, 20:49#18


bn

SH
sharkbokCaptain20,097 posts
23 Nov 2025, 21:20
#19
23 Nov 2025, 21:20#19

1. Ukraine's sovereignty to be reconfirmed.


ARTICLE CONTINUES BELOW THIS ADVERT




2. There will be a total and complete non-aggression agreement reached between Russia and Ukraine and NATO. All ambiguities from the last 30 years will be resolved.


(Point 3 of the US plan is deleted. A draft of it seen by Reuters said: "There will be the expectation that Russia will not invade its neighbours and NATO will not expand further.")


4. After a peace agreement is signed, a dialogue between Russia and NATO will convene to address all security concerns and create a de-escalatory environment to ensure global security and increase the opportunity for connectivity and future economic opportunity.


5. Ukraine will receive robust Security Guarantees.




In full: The US peace plan for Ukraine


2:05


Play Video - The fight for key Ukrainian towns

The fight for key Ukrainian towns

6. Size of Ukraine military to be capped at 800,000 in peacetime.


7. Ukraine joining NATO depends on consensus of NATO members, which does not exist.


8. NATO agrees not to permanently station troops under its command in Ukraine in peacetime.


9. NATO fighter jets will be stationed in Poland.


10. US guarantee that mirrors Article 5:


a. US to receive compensation for the guarantee


b. If Ukraine invades Russia, it forfeits the guarantee


c. If Russia invades Ukraine, in addition to a robust coordinated military response, all global sanctions will be restored and any kind of recognition for the new territory and all other benefits from this agreement will be withdrawn.


11. Ukraine is eligible for EU membership and will get short-term preferred market access to Europe while this is being evaluated.


Delegations from the US and Ukraine in Geneva for talks on Sunday. Pic: Reuters

Image:

Delegations from the US and Ukraine in Geneva for talks on Sunday. Pic: Reuters

12. Robust Global Redevelopment Package for Ukraine including but not limited to:


a. Creation of Ukraine Development fund to invest in high growth industries including technology, data centres and Al efforts


b. The United States will partner with Ukraine to jointly restore, grow, modernise and operate Ukraine's gas infrastructure, which includes its pipeline and storage facilities


c. A joint effort to redevelop areas impacted by the war to restore, redevelop and modernise cities and residential areas


d. Infrastructure development


e. Mineral and natural resource extraction


f. A special financing package will be developed by the World Bank to provide financing to accelerate these efforts.


13. Russia to be progressively re-integrated into the global economy.


a. Sanction relief will be discussed and agreed upon in phases and on a case-by-case basis


b. The United States will enter into a long-term Economic Cooperation Agreement to pursue mutual development in the areas of energy, natural resources, infrastructure, AI, datacenters, rare earths, joint projects in the Arctic, as well as various other mutually beneficial corporate opportunities


c. Russia to be invited back into the G8.


Read more:

Who actually wrote US-Russian peace plan for Ukraine?

Analysis - Ukraine is in a perilous moment


3:30


Play Video - How Ukraine peace plan came about

How the US's Ukraine peace plan came about

14. Ukraine will be fully reconstructed and compensated financially, including through Russian sovereign assets that will remain frozen until Russia compensates damage to Ukraine.


15. A joint Security taskforce will be established with the participation of US, Ukraine, Russia and the Europeans to promote and enforce all of the provisions of this agreement.


16. Russia will legislatively enshrine a non-aggression policy towards Europe and Ukraine.


17. The United States and Russia agree to extend nuclear non-proliferation and control treaties, including Fair Start.


18. Ukraine agrees to remain a non-nuclear state under the NPT [Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty].


Follow Sky News on WhatsApp

Follow Sky News on WhatsApp

Keep up with all the latest news from the UK and around the world by following Sky News


19. The Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant will be restarted under supervision of the [International Atomic Energy Agency] IAEA, and the produced power shall be shared equitably in a 50-50 split between Russia and Ukraine.


20. Ukraine will adopt EU rules on religious tolerance and the protection of linguistic minorities.


21. Territories Ukraine commits not to recover its occupied sovereign territory through military means. Negotiations on territorial swaps will start from the Line of Contact.


0:35


Play Video - We face losing major partner or dignity, says Zelenskyy

We face losing major partner or dignity, says Zelenskyy

22. Once future territorial arrangements have been agreed, both the Russian Federation and Ukraine undertake not to change these arrangements by force. Any security guarantees will not apply if there is a breach of this obligation.


23. Russia shall not obstruct Ukraine's use of the Dnieper River for purposes of commercial activities, and agreements will be reached for grain shipments to move freely through the Black Sea.


24. A humanitarian committee will be established to resolve open issues:


a. All remaining prisoners and bodies will be exchanged on the principle of All for All


b. All civilian detainees and hostages will be returned, including children


c. There will be a family reunification program


d. Provisions will be made to address the suffering of victims from the conflict.


Vladimir Putin. Pic: Reuters

Image:

Vladimir Putin. Pic: Reuters

25. Ukraine will hold elections as soon as possible after the signing of the peace agreement


26. Provision will be made to address the suffering of victims of the conflict.


27. This agreement will be legally binding. Its implementation will be monitored and guaranteed by a Board of Peace, chaired by President Donald J. Trump. There will be penalties for violation.


28. Upon all sides agreeing to this memorandum, a ceasefire will be immediately effective upon both parties withdrawing to the agreed upon points for the implementation of the agreement to begin. Ceasefire modalities, including monitoring, will be agreed by both parties under US supervision.

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
24 Nov 2025, 15:17
#20
24 Nov 2025, 15:17#20

Much better terms but still some very tough things to sallow, in affect Russia would get away with the numerous war crimes it's committed so far. Footage I seen yesterday showed Russian soldiers tying up Ukrainian POW's forcing them face first into the ground and executing them. Barely a days go by without some new Russian war crime being reported on.


Anyway these terms are largely irrelevant because Russia won't go for them.

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
24 Nov 2025, 15:53
#21
24 Nov 2025, 15:53#21

It's pathetic just how one sided this is towards Russia

I don't have the answers, and I want the unnecessary deaths on both sides to end, but baring WW3 happening if NATO got directly involved, I just can't shake the awful feeling I get that Putin is getting away with blue murder and that nobody could ever essentially be held accountable for the sickening ongoing war crimes ....on both sides.

Putin doesn't want to lose face in front of the world, so he will do whatever he can to make Russia look great if they are going to come out of this war looking like they were the winners in here.

I wish someone had just assassinated him a long time ago.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Nov 2025, 17:11
#22
24 Nov 2025, 17:11#22

The US DF has evidence of war crimes committed by the Ukraine army as well. There were many cases where Uraine Army and especially the Asov Brigade was involved in war crimes.


If the ussian rmy kills As0oc Brg ade members - some f them from ISIS - I do not balme them for what they did. The fact is Ukraine must have been involved in the atack of the Moscow theatre - the armed terrorists left Uklraine ane even the USA warned the Russians abut the penmdding attack i i did not inmvovle Ukraine Government involvement,


If Ukraine is restored as a democracy through new elections there will be lot thing s corrected in Ukraine and the likely ne President will be the army commander fired by Zellenskyy years ago,


Frankly I do not believe Zelenskyy is n honmest elader as well. If hsis assistnts were invovled in Criminal activities - he is also involved, Corruption exposure will not affect only Ukraine Goernment leaders - but also poiticans invovled in corruption in Ukraine from 1 D ecember 2014 to 1 December 2024 and it alsoe xplains the "pardons" of Biden sig ned by the Autopen.


ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
24 Nov 2025, 18:08
#23
24 Nov 2025, 18:08#23

Mike justifying war crimes. Lovely chap.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
24 Nov 2025, 19:52
#24
24 Nov 2025, 19:52#24

Not specifically no....unless he meant POWs should be executed...which he did not, but I agree that it sounds like what he's doing...Maaik, are you OK with Asov Batallion POWs being executed without trial?

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Nov 2025, 22:39
#25
24 Nov 2025, 22:39#25

Stav


No war crimes aare war crimes and should be pubnished, Bot that also apply to Ukraine war crimes This goes back to what happened in 2014. In that ear the Ukraine A rmy with the Asov Batallian leadin g the attack. The used woman and chidren as himan shoedlds and over 1 500 woman and chldren dred as a result, Proof od what happened was provided to the UN Secciruty Cpicil and the Broigaade was declared a mercenary and Terrorist Organosation/


Tha ledt the USA in a difficult stuation where the USA could not provide arms and ammunicition th at cold end up wurh the Ballition were bsorbed into the Ukraine Army, A scam at most, There were scores of incidents where the Asov Brigade eeccuted surrendered soldiers and the US Army admitted in the Senate that there war crimes committed by the Ukraine Army.



TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
24 Nov 2025, 23:39
#26
24 Nov 2025, 23:39#26

Another fun thread in the making. Liberal double standards in action. Blowing up Venezuelan boats with people on them is good... Liberals will either ignore or indulge in patronising to force the idea that similar situations are in fact fundamental different.

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
25 Nov 2025, 14:41
#27
25 Nov 2025, 14:41#27

Putin doesn't want to lose face in front of the world, so he will do whatever he can to make Russia look great if they are going to come out of this war looking like they were the winners in here.


It is a broken record by now: liberals are going to kill hundreds of millions people, they keep stacking forces that dominate them.


Many in this short extract: just quoting a couple. The ever present need for submission. Liberals want to control people's perception. Putin does not want to lose face in front of the world. Russia has been piling political victory over political victory and yet Putin is scared to lose face. The release of this plan was already a massive political victory. The plan is crazy. The plan destroys the liberal narrative of Russia as an aggressor and confirms Russia narrative. The plan includes forbidding the Ukraine to join NATO and as a response, NATO forces are expected to be garrisoned in Poland en masse. This gives support to the russian narrative that they had to intervene to stop the progression of NATO toward the russian borders. The plan also includes that Ukraine must adopt laws to protect minorities. The subtext is not even subtext here. It means that russian minorities were endangered in Ukraine and this confirms the russian narrative that Russia had to step in to protect russian minorities in Ukraine.


The plan is championed by the US. Remember, peeps, on this board, liberals reported Putin's assessment of the master negotiator named Donald Trump: Trump always negotiate with the US interests at heart and he does not concede anything that goes against those interests. One person on this board made the remark that any peace plan coming out of this mess will not reflect the russian best interests but the US best interests. Which is happening. The plan is not a wishlist, it is demands from the winning side. And this winning side does not even have to press the plan as the US carry over the task for Russia. It is incredible. The US are acting as a proxy, they even placed an ultimatum on Ukraine, not Russia. Any step back is not a defeat for Russia, it is a defeat for the US. This is the US plan and its failure will be the US' failure. And of course, nothing in the plan reflects Russia's best interests, only the US best interests. This mess of a thing shows again how much liberal societies have lost the ability to speak about themselves. The release only is a massive political victory for Russia, the US are a country to hire. The US have made no political achievement in this and are only taking a stipend to push their weight around.


Another force is liberals' incapacity to change their mind. They cling to things. It is crazy. Keeping to paint Putin as wanting to save his face, after all of this... Liberals can not admit that Putin has scored massive political points across the world. That is the difference from simple minded people. Simple minded people change their mind. For example, it was speculated that Russia would make small political concessions to keep pretending. This was very wrong, Russia not only did not make concessions but Russia pressed forward, doubling down on the demands.

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