Question.....Invade with boots on the ground

I think their nuclear capability has been neutralized, but the main challenge now is for America to secure control of the Strait of Hormuz. They’re damaging the economies of America and its allies, and if control over that and the oil infrastructure is gained, it’s game over for them. Unless they agree to a peace deal ensuring the free flow of oil and the abandonment of their nuclear program, I’d say the invasion has been pointless.

And yes, the Iran issue should have been addressed 40 years ago. We’ve allowed a toxic state unnecessary freedom for far too long.

Agree with most of the above.

Well done discussing things like an adult, Denise.

Now we wait for Trad-Bok to insert another of his stupid videos or perhaps an excruciatingly long article that nobody will ever read.

Well done discussing things like an adult, Denise.

F/off!

haha that wasn't a sarcastic comment, Denise.

In an adjacent thread, things went totally off the rails, starting with a specific claim and culminating in people venting their Trump spleen.

So, i was actually complimenting you.

I also agree mostly with what Denny said above

Not enough thought was put in to this war before starting it..... but at the same time, nobody can ever really anticipate what an opponent could or would do in a war situation

I do however agree that more heads should have been put together to discuss all the possible or potential outcomes or ramifications of this war ... it was started too early, but I do still 100% agree that this had to be done at some point, even if that sadly means an unfortunate loss of innocent lives..

I suppose Denise is so used to us fighting that he thinks anything I say is an attack.

Huh?

When we criticised Bozo for going into this war without any planning or objective we were told that Bozo was winning the war and we all had TDS.

Does this about-turn mean you Trumpanzees are admitting it was a stupid decision after all?

I don't recall ever saying that the US had won. Neither do I recall ever disagreeing that better planning may or may not have been necessary because I don't actually know. I don't think any of us actually know because we don't have access to the information that would be required to make an assessment like that. And then, of course, it may also turn out to be a bad plan, and it doesn't matter how much planning done when the plan itself is bad.

What I do know is that IRGC are being massively weakened and I support that to the hilt. And it's got zero to do my my approval/disapproval of Trump and/or the US.

But what I agree with more than anything is people being able to separate out a situation from all their emotions around the people or countries involved in it and provide adult opinions.

Nobody here is responsible for what The US or Trump does. Nobody has control over it. None of us know Trump and only some of US have ever been to the US.

What I'm saying is, the supposed "Trumpanzees" appear, yet again, more than willing to partake in adult conversation. One where they aren't somehow being made to feel as though they are responsible for what is happening and where there is this overarching question that goes something like this "See, are you now willing to accept that everything Trump has ever, and will ever do, is entirely wrong?"

And that's why I paid Denise the compliment.

Look at the other thread, where VisKop wants to re-hash his entire repertoire of US and Trump disapproval, for the umpteenth time, if you want a perfect example of what I'm uninterested in.

When we criticised Bozo for going into this war without any planning or objective we were told that Bozo was winning the war and we all had TDS.

Does this about-turn mean you Trumpanzees are admitting it was a stupid decision after all?

I see...so what Trump said about winning this war makes it an automatic "we all said it and believe it"

I don't and won't respond to every single bad or negative comment posted on here about Trump to show which side I am on all the time.... or that I do or don't support whatever is happening at that specific time....or whatever Trump might have stupidly said at any given time.... because it would keep me far too busy all day, every day.....there is just way too much negative Trump material on here to deal with all the time and respond to.

Also, I have never once ever said that anyone was winning this war, or that it was over...or that I agreed that Trump was correct or incorrect about winning it....and I also haven't said anyone had TDS if they disagreed with Trump on winning this war, so I am more than entitled to voice my retrospective concerns and opinions after this war was started, without having to admit that I got anything right or wrong, because I didn't.

It's a war that changes daily, and we will all probably rightly and wrongly get something wrong at any time on what happens in any war given it's unpredictability

Some were wrong about the negotiations

Some were wrong about the gift that was offered

Some will be right and wrong again ....

I also don't respond when things like "winning the war" are so very obviously exaggerated, even if Trump wants to constantly float his own ego by saying stupid things like that....but keeping in mind that the US would obviously at some point always win the war with Iran over time.

I was busy typing my own repsonse when I now see yours Plum after I posted my repsonse

Very similar points made ...

Oh I see. Can either of you point me to a post of yours where you said Bozo was bullshitting when he said he'd won the war? There were several posts (some of them mine) ridiculing Bozo for claiming a win. I don't recall seeing any Trumpanzees agreeing with that or saying things like "he could have consulted NATO". I recall Trumpanzees agreeing with Bozo that NATO was being cowardly and ungrateful for all the things the US had done for them. That's what I remember.

While we're at it, will either of you say straight (without deflecting or adding caveats) that the war was a mistake?

I think it's pretty clear nobody has won the war.

One could also discuss what "win" in this context means. Does it mean totally destroying the enemy or does it mean achieving stated objectives?

And I don't know if NATO should have been further consulted prior to this action.

If I'm totally honest, I have been mad busy with work and trying to stay positive under pretty big pressure, so I chuck on some rugby podcasts when I can, and some Ai discussions. In terms of this conflict, I'm not giving it that much bandwidth because almost nothing of what's out there can be believed, so I see it as a waste of my time trying to understand more about it. I listen to few analysts I trust talk about it every few days and, even then, I treat everything as a maybe.

Before you read that the wrong way, I'm saying this may or may not turn out for the best, the planning and execution might be as good or as bad as can be, I don't know the answers and I don't know the future. And if the US administration do screw the pooch on this then they deserve Al Themba's will that comes their way...likewise if they get a good result should they get the plaudits.

Saying all of that, I'm still glad the iraniaN regimE are getting blown up because I know that if I lived under that kind of religious oppression, I'd welcome somebody trying to help...even if it's not entirely altruistic.

Yes, it's always been very clear that no-one is winning the war . . . yet there was not a single Trumpanzee admitting this when Bozo was boasting about having won it already.

You were all pretty silent on the matter then while the likes of ou Maaik and Draad were already popping the champagne.

@ButtPlug, I dont know what you are rambling on about.

I reminded you that Mozart used the word believe, and I responded that I would believe Switzerland over America (e.g. what they are both saying in the media). I see them as a more credible source of information than America.

And suddenly ButtPlug reverts to a discussion about beliefs and science.

It claims that his belief that COVID was more likely, or at least 50/50, was created in a lab is a fact or science. That is not the scientific consensus. WHO and other health experts have always maintained it was most likely of natural origin- but they never ruled out a lab leak. (No one thinks it was a biological weapon.

The ButtPlug them rambles more on how the Biggest Insurance/ finance/investment companies were major shareholders of the vaccine companies, as scientific proof of something (that COVID was a biological weapon? Who knows what prevails within the mind of ButtPlug creaper...)

These companies are corrupt, but they also happen to be shareholders of many organisations.

COVID cost them their other shareholding assets more than they earned from the vaccine companies' shareholding/ownership, which is peanuts compared to their other assets.

Cmon now, ButtPlug, try to think impartially - it prevents you from filtering data to suit your own beliefs.

If you chop the head off the snake, it just grows another one, which is usually worse, more extremist than the last one. When the West gets involved in the Middle East, it just makes things worse. To those thinking that Iran wants the West's help, we have heard that all before. After the event, the West is cast as the aggressor.

I thought I made it clear the war was inevitable, if not before, certainly after the attack on Israel in 2024. I have never said we have won the war, nor do I believe that was a serious statement from Trump, just more of his art of the deal. Sometimes it works, this time it fell flat.

I do believe we have knocked out a lot of Iranian capability but significantly underestimated the Hormuz issue. The objective should be to make Iran a functional state and remove its sponsorship of terrorism. So there needs to be a weapons quarantine phase if and when this is settled.

Doing nothing was simply to delay this moment to a time when Iran’s negotiating position would have been way stronger and ensure years more of misery in the ME. Pretending that doing nothing is a solution is ignoring the lessons of history.

So why do the same principles not apply to Russia? Because Russia is in the position Iran would be if they had a bomb, multiplied many times over. If Russia wants to go rogue they could destroy every city in the world. Who is to say if we engage them seriously in conventional warfare that there is no risk of escalation, unthinkable. And if we don’t engage them diplomatically will they ever stop the Ukranian venture short of everything they want?

Russia is inherently Western and of the world. Their arts, music and literature are not foreign to our ears, like Oriental music. We must try to bring them into the West, not drive them into China’s orbit.That may be the winning or losing card in the global contest and it is a contest that will decide if following generations enjoy the freedom we enjoy.

This is not love of Putin or lack of respect for the incredible bravery of the Ukranians. It’s looking towards a world where the ME is in relative peace and Russia is a constructive state with an huge land mass, incredible natural resources and very smart people.

We blew the chance once by continuing to treat Russia as unreliable and by humiliating them whenever we could, as we did at Sochi. That was a mistake. Disarming Iran is not.

Oh I see. Can either of you point me to a post of yours where you said Bozo was bullshitting when he said he'd won the war?

As I said to you before, I will not answer every single negative post that you and so many others make on here about Trump, every day........it would keep me too busy....

I have said good and bad things about Trump, whereas you guys only dwell on the negatives, it gets too much

So in your eyes, if I don't respond to any or every negative post that you and many others on here make about Trump, I am agreeing with Trump...... got it.

There were several posts (some of them mine) ridiculing Bozo for claiming a win. I don't recall seeing any Trumpanzees agreeing with that or saying things like "he could have consulted NATO". I recall Trumpanzees agreeing with Bozo that NATO was being cowardly and ungrateful for all the things the US had done for them. That's what I remember.

More generalisations .....point to one single post of mine then where I have called NATO cowards and ungrateful for all the things that the US has done for them..... or anything at all even remotely negative or insulting towards NATO.....just one post will suffice.

I am still in agreement with this war, just not with all the timing, tactics and decisions

Decisions and outcomes are changing every single day, so can one's opinion on certain aspects of the war....

This war is fluid, and it can change in a single second, so I don't see why a person's opinion on this war can't also change should certain things happen in or during this war.......so if I haven't put forward an opinion on something, it by no way should mean that I agree or disagree with whatever is being said.

Well the only changes I've seen since the very beginning have all been for the worse.

Watch Bozo compound it and put boots on the ground.

Operation Epic Fail.

Oh good Rooi, you are predicting a fail. According to the rules of the curse things are guaranteed to get better.

It's already a fail, almost whatever happens from here on in.

I honestly can't see a path to any kind of win here. Can you?