What a story for the kid from Pretoria. A brilliantly executed IPO hits a perfect 20% up in trading…kudos Goldman and Morgan Stanley. The world’s biggest and most enigmatic IPO perfectly launched.
One of the tech boffins is predicting the vast majority of compute will be in space in 15 years. Even if only partially true, how crazy is that.
The current price puts SPACEX JUST BEHIND Amazon and ahead of Meta and every company in Europe.
I find it obscene that an individual can have more money than nearly all the billions of poor people put together.
This is not something to celebrate, it's sickening.
And yet the ability to reuse rockets and dramatically lower the cost to put satellites flawlessly in space and the capacity to potentially solve much of man’s energy needs is being advanced rapidly by SPACEX.
Two recent predictions make it clearer….one today by a scientist that much of the data center build out will be in space….and one a few days ago that 10% of energy in 10 years time will go to powering data centers, underline the value of what’s being done here for man’s future.
The success of SPACEX may help with poverty it certainly didn’t cause poverty.
I don't really have an issue with Elon being that wealthy because he's built his most successful companies around advancing humanity's interests.
Bezos on the other hand I see as a parasite of sorts. He's taken wealth that was distributed and drained it towards Amazon.
In terms of inspiration, they couldn't be further apart. Sure, Bezos has done some cool stuff with Amazon, but Elon is on the cutting edge of everything.
Regardless, they're both self-made men and I can totally respect that. Inherited wealth and trust fund kids get my goat.
Actually Bezos is launching a new company.which looks to supercharge CAD, spoke about it quite elegantly a few days ago. And Plum I’d say Amazon is a model of execution….Bezos isn’t the visionary Elon is, but as a pure manager he’s first rate.
This gives you a sense of just how irrelevant Europe is:
The largest European company by market capitalization is ASML Holding, which currently ranks #20 globally. [1]
The Dutch semiconductor equipment giant sits right at the bottom edge of the top 20, hovering at a market cap of approximately $560 billion to $670 billion depending on daily trading fluctuations. Because the global top 20 is so heavily dominated by U.S. and Asian companies, Europe currently has only one representative in that tier. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Europe's Next-Largest Contenders
If you look just outside the global top 20, the subsequent largest European companies fighting for global positioning include:
…………..
Europe is the worst case of self destructive mismanagement in the modern era. Merkel should get the the Bernie Sanders award for Economic voodoo.
I'll check it out, Moz.
Bit unlucky for him that Elon is alive at the same time he is though. To be that successful
and still be dwarfed by somebody else can't be easy. And to make it worse, Elon has attained cult like status among the smartest people in the world.
Yes today on the Business Channel was a deification of Musk….but more than PayPal, Tesla and early Open AI, SpaceX is a stunning accomplishment.
This gives you a sense of just how irrelevant Europe is:
Out of curiosity why did you feel the need to bring Europe in this... twice at that?
I mean sure it could be trolling... or is this just part of US right wing political ideology or both?
Also can you tell me where SpaceX would rank terms of revenue generated? Would it be outside the top 200 companies in the world oh say around about where cereal producer Kellogg's would be any chance?
"I find it obscene that an individual can have more money than nearly all the billions of poor people put together.
This is not something to celebrate, it's sickening."
Lazy thinking Rooi... that's not real money... it's potential money he uses to better humanity...he is an innovator and genius...a modern day Tesla, Einstein, Eddison or Newton...the things he does...imagine he didn't get the money from Paypal to pay for the invasion of Tesla, SpaceX etc...do you know what his battery technology did for the world going forward? He deserves every sent he has and will use it for the betterment of all mankind going forward ..but you find it obscene...look past whatever it is that's tripping you up...when last did a commie collective do anything for the betterment of mankind?...you go Elon... obscene se gat!
Musk is a very good business person, and America has a strong environment to create Big companies quickly. Musk is apparently also very good at recruitment, so he can find the right people to make things happen.
SpaceX would probably not exist in any other country, and has been funded largely by public service contracts.
I would say that SpaceX is probably overvalued though. It has not generated that much revenue to be worth what it is, and Musk seems to be moving resources from one company to the next when it suits investment purposes. America is no longer as fiscally reliable as it used to be, so their may be shenanigans at the top. Although investors may believe it is overvalued now, but betting on Musk to lead the new frontier and what Space X (and Starlink) can become.
Musk se moer ... he's another kind of monster
Also can you tell me where SpaceX would rank terms of revenue generated? Would it be outside the top 200 companies in the world oh say around about where cereal producer Kellogg's would be any chance?
The top 20 global companies by revenue, based on the most recent fiscal year 2025/2026 reporting data from the Wikipedia List of Largest Companies by Revenue and Companies Market Cap, are:
Note: The global leaders are regularly evaluated on a trailing twelve-month (TTM) or fiscal-year basis. You can view the historical data tracked by Fortune Global 500 or verify
So the EU with VW managed a number 20 in terms of revenue. And the Swiss produced an oil trading company that managed to get the 15th spot. Of course this says nothing about potential profitability and growth which is why SPACEX has such a huge value.
min 8.00 for Musk
Blob you are lost….Musk is one of the most consequential people of the 21st century
Musk is an evil batshit genius & undoubtedly one of the most consequential people of the 21st century
Lazy thinking Rooi... that's not real money... it's potential money he uses to better humanity...he is an innovator and genius
Bill Gates has harshly criticized Elon Musk, accusing him of causing potentially millions of deaths and "killing the world's poorest children" through his actions at the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE). [1, 2, 3]
Gates has specifically highlighted the following impacts of Musk's policies:
Musk has fired back at these remarks, calling Gates a "huge liar" and demanding to see evidence of his policies causing the deaths of children. [1]
Here is a short clip discussing the details of the clash between Bill Gates and Elon Musk over USAID cuts:
2:01
Gates on Musk's cuts to USAID: 'World's richest man killing the world's poorest children'
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Be honest, Blo, if Musk were black he'd be your hero.
Space-X = provide global internet access and reduce costs of launching satellites for defence and research purposes. They've assisted in war zones, natural disaster situations and offered cheaper rates to poor and impoverished areas with no other means of internet connection.
Blo calls the man doing this batshit and evil.
Tesla = Aimed at reducing reliance on oil through battery powered engines that can be charged via renewable sources.
Blo calls the man doing this batshit and evil
Neuralink = Aimed at provided an engineering solution to some of the most severe medical conditions such as loss of hearing and eyesight, para and quadriplegia, and other nerve damage causing pain and paralysis.
Blo calls the man doing this evil and batshit.
One the one hand you have a guy that has built business that appear to genuinely have the best interest of humanity and its future at heart while on the other you have some expat Saffa with a racial and political chip on his shoulder that simply can't see past his own hatred to what is right in front of him.
I call that "obscene".
But Bill Gates has been implicated with Epstein….now you are quoting him to legitimize your attack on Trump, who among other things you have accused for supposedly being implicated with Epstein.
Do you need more proof that you would ignore anything that gets in the way of attacking Trump.
Bill Gates has you fooled ...evil one that.
Research done with help from AI.
So the claim that Musk has done wonders for battery technology is a contradiction to actual reality. A cheap statement when you look at the actual facts and real life experiences that I have actually had with his products.
The Powerwall solar battery with 13.5kWh capacity and 5kw peak constant output is sold with a warranty of 90% capacity over 10 to 15 years. But the warranty has fine print. It's actually 70% at 10 years. 70% of 13.5kWh is 9.45kWh usable. That is a big drop.
The data reveals a batch of Powerwall 2 units made in late 2018 through 2019 that are failing much faster. Same outcome with a batch of Powerwall 3 units made in late 2025 and early 2026.
Owners on alternative energy forums like GIGAZINE and netzero.energy report these units started at only 12.75kWh usable capacity, not 13.5kWh, and have degraded significantly faster, below 9.45kWh within the first 7 years. Tesla refuses to release the full degradation graphs for these units.
A Powerwall 3, the latest model, has a recommended retail price of R160,195 for the unit itself, plus R21,678 for the Tesla Gateway smart hub, bringing the total to R181,873 excluding installation.
Some suppliers list it between R195,000 and R295,000 including installation. For installation, you can expect to add another R20,000 for a certified Tesla partner.
Now compare that to the Chinese battery company BYD and their BYD LVL 15.4kWh lithium battery. It has less degradation over the first 7 years, only 10%, with a cost of R120,025 installed and a 10 year warranty. It's much better value for money and has a proven longer lifespan.
Starlink is supposed to help poor areas and disaster zones. Starlink works in Ukraine, Gaza, Iran, Venezuela, Sudan, Zimbabwe and Kenya. But he charges these people.
In Zimbabwe and Kenya, it will cost a household $10 for 50GB of data. That sounds good, but these households are dirt poor. $10 is around R180 and that is a week's food for these households. Also after the first 20GB are used, the satellite internet speed drops very low, until it's basically useless.
The same results also show Musk has refused to activate Starlink in Ukraine for an attack in Crimea. Trump has threatened to switch it off to force Ukraine to make peace concessions. The numbers show that him helping is just marketing so he can look like a savior or saint.
Starlink has half a million subscribers in Sub-Saharan Africa. That sounds big. But the population of Sub-Saharan Africa is over 1.2 billion people. Half a million is 0.04%. The vast majority cannot afford it.
The entry-level $30 to $50 per month is more than most households can pay for internet. Even the $10 plan in Kenya and Zimbabwe, the cheapest in Africa, is still not free.
And the ecological cost? 10,000 satellites burning up in the atmosphere, releasing aluminum oxide that damages the ozone layer. So who decides when Starlink helps and when it doesn't? Elon Musk decides. That's not a saint. That's a gatekeeper.
Neuralink. The medical journal article says the Blindsight device could restore vision. There are 21 patients in trials now. But the GitHub roadmap says consumer devices for "super vision" and "perfect memory" won't be ready until 2040. This is not a miracle happening now. This is long-term research.
Musk spent at least $290 million in the 2024 presidential election to help Trump and other Republicans. That's a political operator using his wealth to influence elections.
And the conflict of interest is real. Musk is a Special Government Employee running the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE), which oversees cuts at the Pentagon and NASA.
At the same time, SpaceX is a major contractor for both agencies. Democratic members of Congress wrote a letter saying Musk's dual role creates an inherent conflict of interest and threatens to undermine the integrity of acquisition processes.
The problem with most of the posts is everything inconvenient gets ignored.
You don't mention Musk's conflicts of interest with the Pentagon. You don't mention the political donations. You don't mention the environmental damage from satellites. You don't mention that Starlink is not free for poor people. You don't mention that his overpriced lithium Batteries is not worth the price you pay for them.
You just list the good things and call anyone who questions it lazy thinkers, lost, or fooled.
Elon Musk is a clever businessman. But he is also a shrewd operator. For him, it's all about money and monopolizing business.
You're missing the point... he's not in it for the money...he's in it for the achievement and he uses his success to finance more achievement... there's nothing obscene about that...
You say I'm missing the point?! But you haven't engaged with one point I brought up.
You ignored all of it. You picked one word I didn't even say : "obscene" and argued against that. That's not engaging. That's ignorant. Do better.
Your post is biased. Who is actually missing the point?
And another thing. You say he's not in it for the money. Really DB? Are you really this Boobish ? He's a trillionaire but he's not after money. Are you actually reading what you write?
"Research, writing and reasoning done with help from AI."
There we go. Fixed!
Ah, again Plum. You're not engaging in good faith with any points I've made.
I wrote this by myself but used AI to do the research. So what? You and others on this forum do exactly the same and more.
You say people must mention when they use AI. I mentioned it. And you still try to discredit me. So what's the point of mentioning it? You're going to lie either way.
You're just trying to discredit me the whole time saying I'm some AI ghostwriter. I've proven you wrong. AI has actually proven you wrong.
So every time I want to join a discussion on Mikes Gripes, you want to discredit me.
Now you're going as far as saying even my reasoning is done by the AI.
Honestly now you're acting like a child that's bored and predictable. So what's up, Plum? What do you want to reach with these continuous accusations?
Ah, again Plum. You're not engaging in good faith with any points I've made
What is your point? That Musk shouldn’t be a capitalist? That somehow he should prevent China for copying his ideas with slave labor and producing a cheaper product? That anybody had a better solar solution in 2018?
That the former South African who built 3 Fortune 500 companies from scratch….who revolutionized payments, upended the car industry and made space innovations that China couldn’t is somehow ….what?
Moz, if you can't read what I wrote, that's not my problem. I laid it out clearly. But you ignore my points, just like DbDraad. You deflect instead of engaging.
You ask if I said Musk shouldn't be a capitalist? I never said that. My exact words was: He is a clever, but shrewd businessman who puts money and monopoly first. That's not anti-capitalism. That's reality.
That somehow he should prevent China for copying his ideas with slave labor and producing a cheaper product?
First, Elon Musk was not the first person to invent the lithium battery. China didn't copy anything from him.
A BYD Chinese battery is much cheaper and lasts longer, and less degradation over the first 7 years. I've installed Powerwall myself.
Why the fuck should I spend R295,000 on a lithium battery from Elon Musk that doesn't last as long as a Chinese battery? Only a stupid person would do that. That's my point.
For your info: BYD batteries started in 1995. Tesla Powerwall started in 2015. That means BYD has been designing Lithium batteries for 21 years longer than Powerwall has existed.
So yet again, Moz, stick to the facts. Don't just spew out nonsense that you make up in your own head, to support your own bias.
That anybody had a better solar solution in 2018?
In actual fact, people were making better solar battery solutions in 2018 and they're making better solutions now than Elon Musk and Powerwall.
Besides BYD, take Freedom Won, for example. Locally manufactured Lithuim Battery in a 48,000 square metre factory in Edenvale, Johannesburg.
They have had better solutions than Elon Musk for years. A battery that actually lasts longer. I've given you all the stats. You just keep deflecting.
That the former South African who built 3 Fortune 500 companies from scratch….who revolutionized payments, upended the car industry and made space innovations that China couldn’t is somehow ….what?
Moz no-one is denying that he made those achievements. I'm not doubting that. But you guys don't make a balanced statement.
I'm just bringing up the other side of the equation. And it Doesn't look like you can handle that. That's not my problem.
I never claimed that China is better in space research than him. I never said that once in my initial posting.
Yet again, I'm telling you to go and read properly. Open your eyes. Stop deflecting and shifting the goalpost to suit your argument and narratives. That's just dishonest debate.
M your post was a total trashing of Musk….not one positive. In the last sentence you say he is a shrewd businessman, but quickly negate that by claiming he is all about money, when he is also committed to human progress. His whole suit against Open AI had to do with free access:
‘Elon Musk sued OpenAI and its leadership, claiming they betrayed the company's original non-profit, open-source mission to benefit humanity. He alleged that OpenAI morphed into a profit-driven enterprise heavily backed by Microsoft.’
I don’t blame you for buying the product that works for you….but for heaven sake man, get out of the weeds. This man came from Pretoria and changed the world, have a little respect.
Moz, you say I trashed Musk and didn't say one positive thing. I said he's a clever businessman. That's positive. You just ignored it.
I didn't trash Powerwall completely. But look at the price. Besides, it's not better than the cheaper variants.
You say he's committed to human progress. Then explain the Open AI lawsuit. He demanded 90% of the company.
They said no, then he sued and lost. That's not a man fighting for humanity, but rather the characteristics of a self-serving man.
You say I should respect him because he's from Pretoria. I don't deny what he built.
What is real respect, Moz? I think it's seeing both sides. Not only hero worship.
That's not being in the "weeds" as you call it. That's being honest.
"Moz, if you can't read what I wrote, that's not my problem. I laid it out clearly. But you ignore my points, just like DbDraad. You deflect instead of engaging."
Because you ad points to the discussion as we progress...and you deliberately change the topic to what you want to discuss opposed to what was said ..and misconstrue what was said,and in a very arrogant and condescending way... throwing in a few smilies...as if that changes anything .....and fck ..there is no way in hell that I have the time to get into an argument with a robot ..when I see a wall of AI generated text, I skip over it...so, yes, I don't answer all of your points...and hell no, I don't have the time to justify every post I make...go Google INTP...I trust my gut...it hasn't failed me yet...and no Moz, I'm not talking about my beer gut Moz, which has considerably shrunk the last 6 months ...
Db, you had time to write that long post. Or time to always chirp in with your snide comments. But you don't have time to answer my points. That doesn't make sense.
You trust your gut. I trust facts.
You say I deliberately change the topic and added points. Ok, prove it. I've stayed on the same points the whole time.
Show me one smiley I used today. You're making things up.
Just because an AI researched points about Musk and his doings doesn't make it incorrect. Good luck researching anything nowadays on Google without AI input from Gemini.
The Battery knowledge I added from my own experience. If you had the common decency you would've read my post properly. But that's not how you operate. You just make it up as you go.
Or are you telling me that you research nothing?
Calling yourself INTP doesn't mean you get to ignore evidence. That's not a personality type. That's an excuse for ignorance and laziness.
In a 21 paragraph post this is the positive bit:
Elon Musk is a clever businessman. But he is also a shrewd operator. For him, it's all about money and monopolizing business.
He is a clever businessman…..and then you trash him for being all about money and monopolizing business. There are laws in the States about monopolies, he operates within those laws. And no businessman who is going to survive is going to help his opposition.
You call him a clever businessman. Faint, faint praise…I had thousands of clever businessmen working for me at one time. Musk is not just a clever businessman, in America he is a legend, compared to the likes of Henry Ford
I respect your knowledge in the power installation business, and your judgement about the Power Wall. But the market also makes a judgement and this is what I find:
1. Global Residential Market
2. Global Megapack & Utility Market
……..
And this is probably his least significant accomplishment. There are millions of aggressive, smart people in the States….you don’t get to the position Musk has reached without being exceptional. Why don’t you just leave it at that.
"You trust your gut. I trust facts."
The ones you like and slant to your purpose.
"Show me one smiley I used today. You're making things up."
I wasn't talking about today...I don't have to make things up ...
"Calling yourself INTP doesn't mean you get to ignore evidence. That's not a personality type. That's an excuse for ignorance and laziness."
I don't ignore any evidence...neither context...
"The Battery knowledge I added from my own experience. If you had the common decency you would've read my post properly. But that's not how you operate. You just make it up as you go."
I don't have the time to figure out what's yours and what's AI jargon...common decency my arse...sweep before your own door.
"Really DB? Are you really this Boobish ? He's a trillionaire but he's not after money. Are you actually reading what you write?"
I didn't say he's not after the money...I said the money isn't his main focus ...he only use the money as a vehicle to achieve his goals ...he learned rocket science to put his starlink satellites in space, not to make money...he bought twitter for the AI tech, not for the social media platform...the money is secondary... it's the vehicle to the purpose, not the purpose at all...and that's true for most billionaires...the money is there as a result of them following their passion... but money is almost never the passion.
"Db, you had time to write that long post.
It's short compared to most of yours
Or time to always chirp in with your snide comments.
Lol...hoor wie praat...
But you don't have time to answer my points. That doesn't make sense.
Too many points about the same thing is a waste of time.
Moz, you call Musk exceptional, and nobody doubts he is. But you never ask at what cost. You never mention the price.
You only see the success, but not the side effects.
You say there are laws against monopolies that Musk must follow. Honestly Moz, don't you think $290 million in campaign donations makes those laws disappear? Are you not being a bit too naive here?
I never said I completely trash Powerwall. And i will acknowledge the North-American and global BESS stats, that Tesla are up there with Frontrunners BYD, Sungrow.
But my first-hand experience in the South-African Market, is that cheaper brands like BYD and Freedom Won last just as long and longer.
So why does he charge so much for his batteries? For what other reason can it be than greed?
Why does he charge for Starlink in war-stricken areas and in Africa, where those people are dirt poor? It won't make him poorer. So what other reason is there than greed?
A trillionaire could put a serious dent in poverty and still have enough left to have more than everyone else. He could fund clean water.
He could rebuild Gaza. But he doesn't. Because that's not how you become a trillionaire.
Hence me saying he is a clever businessman and a shrewd operator. That's not an insult, it's a description.
To become a trillionaire, you have to put money and profit first. That's just reality. You act like I called him a monster. I just stated the obvious.
You can honour and idolize Musk if you want. I'll stick to both sides of the equation.
