The Faulty logic on the Novak Djokovic expulsion

I believe everybody should get vaccinated. But the logic for the vaccinations has shifted. All the way through the Delta variant there was clear evidence that the vaccines protected you from getting the disease and crucially protected you when you got the disease.

The explosion of cases with Omicron has made the first benefit hard to argue. Most early studies I’ve seen suggest there is very minimal protection from getting the disease…..so not being vaccinated doesn’t appear to make you more dangerous to others….only to yourself.

So any player or any tourist entering Australia is as likely to be a threat to the indigenous convicts if he is vaccinated as he would have been unvaxed. And is as likely to contract it from other players if he is vaxed

So if these Australian political people were really interested in limiting danger, the answer is obviously complete isolation from all foreign sources. But of course it’s way, way too late for that. It’s a political time bomb best diffused by blowing up Djokovic.

If all the vaccines can do is limit the extent of illness….there is no good argument for discriminating against the unvaccinated. The only solution available right now is good old social distancing. Which would suggest calling the whole thing off. But of course nobody in Oz wants that.

Novak is his own worst enemy in a lot of these spats. But when the Tennis Board sets up an independent Committee consulting the government of Victoria, who then grants him an exemption, even if the Federal government wants to overthrow that decision for political reasons, they could at least have been courteous.

But it’s so obvious that the little men running the country want to be seen to punish the Joker…you could sense the glee as the PM said nobody is above the rules. What a great political line.

Hopefully we will soon have boosters that again protect against getting the disease. The second they are available I’m getting mine, but right now requiring the vaccine may protect hospital workers from having to deal with very sick people…..but I doubt any tennis stars with Omicron are going to the hospital.

Good post...fully agree with this reasoning. Personally I believe this is a choice of the individual to be vaccinated or not and it's far more psycholigically damaging to societies of countr ies like Australia who are prone excessively to neurotic coronaphobia..

Agree with both of you.   The problem si that politicians see the pandemic not from a scientific perspective - but as an empowerment tool to assume powers they do not really have in terms of constitutional law.   it happens ,not only in Australia - it is happening worldwide.   

I will be surprised if Djokovic will be allowed to play in the Aussie Open - which would probbly favor more than anyone else M edvedev and  Sverev in the series.       

Excellent post Moz... great points made which I agree with

A lot of companies these days are changing their current code of conduct to include mandatory vaccinations for continued employment.

A lot of companies are also changing their employment criteria to include compulsory vaccination evidence up front before any interview process for employment even takes place.

Many medical aids are already changing their policies to mandatory vaccinations of members, and if any member refuses the vaccination, then all future Covid related illness expenses will be passed over to the member to pay.

So having said that, I do agree with any country that wants to implement it's own Covid policies and requirements regarding travel to that country.... and everyone would need to be treated the same way regarding those said policies.

The Aussie Open is a massive money spinner, and clearly everything has been done to get as many big names to play..... and Djokovic has been extremely vocal about the vaccination issue for a year now already....... he personally made it a very big issue, before this next open took place

Djokovic then decides to post on social media, a picture of himself smiling at the airport, with his luggage.... basically showing that after all this drama for the last year, he has now personally received this medical exemption, which quite honestly, it would rather have been far better for Djokovic to have left this issue to die a slow and quiet death, but no..... he wanted to make it public... and in my opinion, it was a deliberate show from him to say... screw you to whoever tried to force me to get vaccinated

Now it seems it could possibly backfire in his face, and rightly so, because he knew the possible blow back he would receive from his social media post.......and now with the news coming out that 2 more players received these same medical exemptions, yet they did not qualify for it..... makes it even more embarrassing.... I am just waiting to see if they will be named

Apparently Djokovic has now been told to leave Australia and he has been moved to a quarantine hotel until a flight has been sourced for him out the country

Check how his president has got involved in this whole saga telling Djokovic that the whole of Serbia is behind him..... it is actually quite sad that it got to this point

Djokovic News

In a lot of ways the Serbians remind me of the Afrikaners….they never get a sympathetic response. I like Novak, he’s quirky, vulnerable…..but he’s his own man.

Djokovic has applied to court to have his visa re-instated - and an interim order has been given to last until Monday when the actual court hearing will take place.   However, there still is a snag even if the visa is reinstated -  the Aussie Government may appeal a decision favorable tp  Djokovic  or the ruling could be delayed until after the start of the Aussie Open.   

Djokovic is in the  meantime held in a hotel serving as a detention center with a very ppor reputation.  He is allowed no visitors and is under constant guard - he is not allowed to leave tje center at all and that must be a very nerve-wrecking experience and no practicing at all.

Anywaay we will hear more about the issue by Monday.            /    

Yeah, his people were demanding that the detention centre, or hotel that he stays in, must have a tennis court so he can practice....

Bullshit, again, what makes this guy so special that his own father has called upon the rest of the world to protest in the streets about his son not being allowed entry, or that his hotel is not up to scratch... what a farce

Over 40 000 Australians couldn't even come back to their own country at one point, some of them for many months, due to their extremely strict rules with vaccine and entry requirements...

This is a fucking joke.... and it has backfired in spectacular fashion on Djokovic 

I guarantee you, that he seriously regrets the way he approached this issue, and that he also wishes he didn't post that very smug social media image with his "Exemption" comment

Even Nadal has openly stated that Djokovic knew the serious risks many months ago, and that he has had ample opportunity and time to resolve this issue before going to Australia to defend his title..... and that is 200% true.

I hope Australia stick to their original decision

"I hope Australia stick to their original decision"

Betcha they will! 40,000 Australians were denied entry into their own country so there'll be a massive outcry if the court rules in the prima donna's favour. He's had more than enough time to get his shit together.....why do I detect a sense of entitlement.

Denny

The State of Victoria has been run on an extreme basis when ti comes to Covid. I read somewhere that for 270 days in the past 18 months the lockdown conditions was so severe nobody was allowed outside their homes for more than an hour a day and that was  for exercise and shopping purposes.    That is like serving jail sentences in ones ow n home. 

I do think Djokovic should leave Australia  immediately - no one wants want demonstrations during the Aussie Open and him playing is going to cause domestic unrest in Melbourne  the way I see it.         

"why do I detect a sense of entitlement"

Djokovic and his team, including his family have behaved like spoilt children

He could have avoided all of this, but he is an entitled idiot

Not too long ago Djokovic went against everyone's advice, and ran a local tennis competition..... without any of the participating people testing beforehand for Covid, which he was advised to do.... well actually, he was advised not to even hold the tournament.... but he knew better..

Djokovic's wife.... his coach and many other players taking part in this competition all got Covid from his tournament..... and Djokovic himself basically ran away from the competition, so as not to contract Covid...... only to apologize later for doing so. 

He is an entitled twat

As I said, his father is now saying that they will take to the streets to protest...... and his mother is complaining about is hotel conditions.......now we all know where he gets all this entitlement from 

Funny......I am an Australian citizen and have to abide by it's rules and regulations as do millions of other Australian and non Australians......why should Djokovic be the exception?

Novak Djokovic visa cancelled over Covid vaccine rules ahead of Australian Open - Bing video

Ja, I get that he doesn't want to get vaccinated, but then you accept that you're excluded from certain things. You can fight to overturn that, but you can't demand to be treated different than other people... and one gets the idea there's some shenanigans with his medical exception...some BS-ing or fraud? That's not the way to do things.

:As I said, his father is now saying that they will take to the streets to protest......"

I hope they wear masks because if they don't as in the case of everyone else they'll be charg ed and sent packing.

"Rules are rules. If other tennis players got vaccinated to follow the rules, why should Novak be given a free pass?"

Exactly. Also seems as if he tried to fool the authorities with a BS exemption. It's his choice not to get vaccinated just don't expect the Australian authorities to bend over to accommo date him.

78273 cases in Oz yesterday….possibly the highest rate of Covid anywhere on the Planet. It seems the rules haven’t worked. But those who love rules insist they are enforced. 

a moot point ButtPlug...

The latest data shows no vaccination improvement  of omicron immunity unless you are boosted. So all the people Oz let in who weren’t boosted….the vast majority….are no safer to locals than the Joker. Hot off the press:

We detected very little neutralization of the Omicron variant pseudovirus when we used samples taken from people who were recently vaccinated with two doses of mRNA vaccine or one dose of Johnson & Johnson,” says Balazs. “But individuals who received three doses of mRNA vaccine had very significant neutralization against the Omicron variant.”

The convicts aren’t following the science.

Mozart

I think i is grossly unfair to treat Djokovic the way he is being treated - he is effectively a prisoner in a special holding hotel and is not allowed out.   

There is no logic in what is going on with the present virus variant .   There was a peak in late December in SA  and the infection rate nd active cases now is in steep decline and hospitalization is far below what happened in the case of other variants.   

Even though the variant was imported into SA - there were no travel restrictions and lockdowns ordered based on scientific findings - the same cannot be said about Australia and that idiot President of the USA who placed travel restrictions on SA and 6 other African countries when in fact the variant developed all over the world.

I think that Djokovic would not get a good reception from spectators in Australia and the issue is more political than scientific anyway.  

.         

Djoko0vic's lawyers has applied to the court to be moved from the detention center where he is a virtual prisoner   to another facility where he can train for the Aussie Open.   The court ase about hsi visa cancellation is on Monday and I doubt whether a court order will deal with the issue before Monday.   The judge in the earlier decision said he an nobody else will determine when his verdict will be delivered. 

That means he can delay the verdict or even grant permission for an appeal by the government should he rule i n favor of Djokovic - which will not serve the purpose Djokovic requires.  

I think Denny is conveying the real feelings by the Aussies on this issue.    The  PR  problem started last year - when all the players were housed in  hotels with bio-bubble guarantees and top class facilities. and h as moved to  private house  where he had tennis courts all on is own to train at.   Even then the press was negative and the Aussies unhappy     This farce is going to send most Aussies spitting mad.   .                  

"In a lot of ways the Serbians remind me of the Afrikaners….they never get a sympathetic response. I like Novak, he’s quirky, vulnerable…..but he’s his own man."

True but it's a common trait in all Slavs...I've noticed it in Russians, Ukranians, Bulgarians, Hungarians. Poles and other Slavonic peoples. It's a characteristic I like, somewhat, it appears quite hard and cynical but they think deeply but don't reveal much until they trust you. Once you make friends it sticks...they are not fickle or gullible.

The Westerners simply don't understand this and like the misunderstood Afrikaaner are at times isolated.

Sincerity and trust are the qualities that they value.

The problem is that the controversy surrounding  Djokovic's participation in the Aussie Open is not going to go away even f the Judge rule in his favor. 

If h is allowed to play the fact is every match he played in would have to be without spectators - as the crowd will not be controllable.   In the end it would harm Aussie Tennis  and the image of the Aussie Major. 

In essence Djokovic himself caused the problems - there would have been no problem if he was indeed vaccinated like most thinking people have and that includes a vast majority of tennis players and staff attached to  the Aussie Open.    Fact  is most vaccinated people have questions about the effectiveness of vaccines, but still accept vaccination.   

My money is on Djokovic not been allowed to play and that he would be on his way back to Serbia by Tuesday.   Of the top 10 ranked players in the world - they still have 9 playing in the series anyway.          

Well it now turns out he had Covid a month ago and was granted a waiver from Tennis Australia on that basis. At this stage he presents less of a threat than than the non boosted but vaccinated.

Nadal, who is as thick as a brick, must be regretting his stupid comments.

But regardless of your point of view on the Joker,  the fact that he was given an exemption  by Tennis Australia in collaboration with the Victorian medical people and then effectively put under house arrest…..makes Australia look like a third world country.

Mozart

If Djokovic had Covid a month ago it was the best kept secret in the tennis world ever.    If proof of that was provided the present scenario would not have happened.   There were talk of a case where in 2020 he organized against advice a tennis tournament in  Belgrade and that the players and his wife got infected with Djokovic himself vanishing from the scene.   Whether he was infected then nobody knew.   

Djokovic must hope that the Biden mandate on forcing companies with more than 100 employees to enforce vaccination is rejected by the Supreme  Court.   If that is upheld he will not be able to play in the USA unless he is vac cinated.    

My point of view on Djokovic has nothing to do with the present situation.    My clear point of view is that Australia maltreated Djokovic - but at the same time I am not naive either.  The fact is the Covid issue in Australia have made it impossible for a reported 40 000 Australian citizens stranded in foreign countries for many months to return to Australia.     The whole issue became politicized and that is going to have nasty consequences in a city that suffered  terribly under the Australian lock down home imprisonment system .   It could turn unpleasant in the Tournament and  Djokovic's games will likely have to be played closed without public attendance.     

Proof was provided in the guise of a positive test in the last month:

Melbourne, Australia (CNN)Novak Djokovic was granted a medical exemption to compete in the Australian Open as he had recently recovered from Covid-19, court documents published on Saturday by Australia's Federal Circuit show.

But I agree with you Mike, Novak will be subjected to a lot of abuse if he played. In the old days an Aussie crowd could have been relied on to be good sports about the whole thing . These modern, woke Aussies are a different breed.

In any case the Aussie Open is tainted. It’s always the first major sporting event of the year and a sign up North that winter is on the down slope. And great evening entertainment with the time difference. That joyous vibe will be hard to sense this year.

What a shame.

If report are true, he tested positive for Covid twice before a charity function that lasted days. 
This is the reported time when he said he was infected with Covid. 

If true, it shows the compassion of anti-vaxxers. Apparently, he was hugging people...
If it is a lie, well then he is pretending to have had Covid so he can avoid the vaccine. 

The anti-vaxxer wants to live in denial in their own reality, but they are clearly a danger to everyone. 

You know that he hugged people while infectious? You have all the dates? Lay them out for us.

Meanwhile today Australia had 115976 cases….equivalent to 1.5 million in the States. Omicron is running rife while Novak is being treated like a boat person by the Aussies. 

Belgrade — Novak Djokovic, whose lawyers said Saturday he was given an Australian Open Covid-19 vaccine exemption for testing positive on December 16, was at a young players event in Belgrade the following day, without a mask.

In a filing to the federal court seeking to overturn his entry visa cancellation his lawyers said that the "date of the first positive Covid PCR test was recorded on 16 December 2021".

The Belgrade tennis federation, in a Facebook post after the December 17 ceremony, reported that Djokovic had handed over cups and awards to best young players in 2021.

The event, held at the Novak tennis centre in the Serbian capital, was attended only by the award winners "due to epidemiological measures related to the coronavirus pandemic", said the federation statement.

It was accompanied with several photos of Djokovic, posing with the federation's officials and some 20 young players holding cups and awards.

No one was wearing a mask.

At the ceremony, the federation head Milan Slavkovic presented Djokovic with an Orthodox icon for "all he has done for tennis and sports in general, for all achievements and generosity he is making every day throughout the planet", the statement said.

The event was widely reported in the Serbian media.

Djokovic attended another gathering on December 16, when the Serbia national postal service honoured him by launching a series of stamps featuring him and his sports achievements.

He published a photo from the ceremony on Instagram on December 17.

Australian border agents tore up Djokovic's entry visa for failing to meet the country's tough Covid-19 vaccine requirements when he landed in Melbourne on Wednesday.

The 34-year-old Serb, an outspoken vaccine sceptic, was placed in a Melbourne detention centre.

He will have his appeal heard in court on Monday.

The world number one has also requested to be moved to a facility where he can train for the Australian Open, his lawyers said.

Djokovic will have his appeal heard in court on Monday.

Foreigners are still mostly banned from travel to Australia, and those granted entry must be fully vaccinated or have a medical exemption.

AFP

Mozart

According to the Aussie Government that condition you refer to  applies to wives of Australian citizens and not to foreigners  like Djokovic.   It seems that Tennis Australia stretched the condition to  unvaccinated foreign  players and one similar case of  medical exemption  has already been deported from Australia.

If that is indeed the  legal situation  the court ruling would be crucial and like the player referred to Djokovic will be on the way out.    The court hearing will be live- streamed on TV - so I am sure it will be on Fox News - Australia.    The Fox News panel said they are fully on the side of Djokovic since the Aussie Government is undermining human rights by doing what they are doing in the Djokovic case  and using the Aussie army to inspect homes to ensure Covid restrictions are adhered to.   

I think that is the basic arguments to be dealt with by the US  Supreme Court on the basis of Covid vaccination mandates.    So whatever is going on remains a political hot potato and the outcome will be  a total mystery with w ider implications than only the Djokovic case.   .   .    

An attempt by the government to delay the hearing has been rejected:

‘On Sunday, a court order by Judge Anthony Kelly stated that the request to delay the hearing until 12 January had been "refused without prejudice" and that submissions must be presented to the court at 10:00 local time on Monday (23:00 GMT Sunday). 

Last week, Tennis Australia said it would need to know whether Djokovic was participating in the Australian Open so that it could schedule his games in the competition.’

If Novak can prove he had Covid, and this is an acceptable medical reason by the Australian government  - he should be allowed play. (e.g. If other players are eligible for the same reason)

It would question his morals though, as he is saying he attended a marketing event while infected. 

At least Djokovic will be released from the Park Hotel detention center - but due to technical difficulties  nothing is known about the proceedings.    

Tennis Australia must decide on the draw tomorrow since the qualification rounds is to end on  on Thursday for male players    At this stage there is no certainty that the judge would r ule on the issue today.        

The Judge ruled against the Aussie Government in Djokovic  case - but is it the end of the story?    One of the problems is that there were problems between the Federal Government and the State Government of Victoria - while the handling of the case by the border guards were bumbling and leading to confusion on the part of Djokovic.   Another problem that worried the Judge is that if Djokovic is in fact deported  he would automatically be banned from entering Australia for three years.   

However, Governments  are not always happy with judicial rulings - the present US Government is a typical example - and one has to see how the Aussie Government react to the ruling.    Especially in the present era - so-called democratic Governments exceed  their constitutional authority and issue dictatorial rulings  and mandates - so what is the Aussie Government to do in this case?   

The draws for the Aussie Open is made tomorrow and  it is unsure how the matter is going to be handled by the Aussie Government.    They may let Djokovic play - but?????????.          

"Novak Djokovic has won his appeal against being denied a visa to enter Australia.

Djokovic has been detained at an immigration facility in Melbourne since Thursday morning after his visa was cancelled following scrutiny of the medical exemption for the Covid vaccine he had secured to travel to the Australian Open, the first tennis major of the year.

The Serbian’s legal team filed papers to appeal against border control’s original decision confirming that Djokovic tested positive for Covid last month and recovered. He used that as grounds in applying for a medical exemption to Australia’s strict vaccination rules. 

And following a lengthy hearing on Monday, Judge Anthony Kelly quashed the visa cancellation and ordered the Australian Government to pay legal costs and release Djokovic from detention within half an hour."