Was the Pope Murdered?

Apparently, J.D. Trans was the last person to meet with him...

Got to question Catholicism if the pope is selected by god why does he keep killing them.

The Christian god seems to be a stupid cunt if he doesn't understand he has to show at least a little sign of his existence.

No wonder the world is turning to Atheism.

Very much BS again is added here,

Insidentally the Pope is not appoimted by God - but by a conclave of 120 cardinals. He is human and merely head of a church - nothing more.

Note that ou Maaik's sense of humour is about as well developed as his general education.

Snip 1. The unprovoked attack on other posters count starts,

To make fun pf anybody's death is not humor it is craziness and hatred of people - in other words funny to the mentally defective. .

I see Sader is still super insecure about his life choices too...

I see you still get triggered easily, a sign of your super insecurity of life choices?

I'm not the one typing sentences like this, bud...

"The Christian god seems to be a stupid cunt if he doesn't understand he has to show at least a little sign of his existence."

Only pointing out the truth bud

It as religion that created the western civilization and that is rprof of what reigion entails, It puts people into making an extra effort to reach their bjectives in life. The Woke culture of unbelivers is destroying civilization and sending people into a dsaster that would wipe out democracy and standard of living in future,

You in the past refer to China - nder the Mao anti-religion and dictatorship China stagnated - under a regime that allow for freer religion the country is growing econmically on a massive basis,

In sumary the haters of religion are the same people that in the end destroy their own life because they alck objectives that benefot not nly temselves -but also the hopes and wishes of all the people and a believein culture and history as well Without that people become equal to animals. .

For myself I do not attack people because o anything relating to their religious and political beliefs - everybody is enttled to what they believe in. But people like you do and ome wonders why? Is t ebccause ou have no respect for fellow human beings - like so often is promoted hatred of people promoted on this site.

.

Christianity destroyed Western civilisation and brought the Dark Ages.

Civilisation is built on ancient Greece and Rome, who invented Democracy, along with many of the studies a first-year student learns in university

The Renaissance (Cultural revival) started when ancient Greek records were rediscovered in the East.

This allowed mankind to start progressing again.

CleverClicksWanker

54,653 posts

Apr 22, 2025, 12:24

For myself I do not attack people because o anything relating to their religious and political beliefs - everybody is enttled to what they believe in. But people like you do and ome wonders why? Is t ebccause ou have no respect for fellow human beings - like so often is promoted hatred of people promoted on this site.

In sumary the haters of religion are the same people that in the end destroy their own life because they alck objectives that benefot not only themselves -but also the hopes and wishes of all the people and a believein culture and history as well. Without that people become equal to animals. .

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So, according to DumbMike, people are equal to animals if they do not believe in religion?

I thought you said you do not attack people based on their religious beliefs.....

The Muslims also worship God. (Allah is the English name for God.)

They also believe that non-believers are animals. (Kaffirs)

While the word Kaffir originates in the ancient Middle East, it was also later used by Afrikaans as a label for the black population during Apartheid to justify the treatment of black "people".

Black people either did not go to heaven, or in some instances, there was a black heaven...

Apartheid had religious fundamentalists in power with no vision of the future. Any religious person rejects the other 99.9% of religions, along with Atheism, because somehow, they are right.

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Renaissance: Rediscovery of Classical Knowledge

The revival of ancient Greek and Roman texts, preserved by Islamic and Jewish scholars, reintroduced classical philosophies and humanist ideals. Petrarch’s rediscovery of Cicero’s works exemplified this shift, emphasising human potential and secular inquiry over medieval scholasticism 348.

Humanism and Intellectual Shifts

Humanism, centred on the study of classical antiquity and human potential, replaced the medieval theological focus. This movement, championed by figures like Petrarch, encouraged rational inquiry, scientific observation, and artistic realism 246.

Nonsense….architecture, music, poetry, medicine….we’re all inspired and enabled by religion.

Not Christian religion.... I agree that religion has had positive impacts, especially a long time ago before modern-day laws, but I would argue that ancient Greece and Rome had more impact on the modern world. It was Christianity that gave us the Dark Ages, and it was the rediscovery of classical texts from the Greeks/Romans that took us out of it.

(Sure, during the Renaissance, the likes of Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo had much of their work commissioned by the Church, but that was attaching their brand to it).

I have met good Christian people in South Africa who could liberally interpret the Bible, selecting the best options from somewhat contradictory statements within the text. However, I see that less these days.

The problem is that the religious only seem to respect their own religion, not others. In some ways, the predecessor of racism. (See Kaffirs). So I do not see much place for it in the modern world.

I respect the ancient Greeks and Romans as the cradle of modern-day civilisation. While religion has done some good, I don't think it compares to what we got from the ancient Greeks/Romans.

The lie that Christianity destroed Roe is enirely BS conmcocted by SB. If you study history it si clear th at lik happened in the WEstern World now is that malgoverning and economic decline - as well as losing of cultural and normal huan valueds caused he demise of he Wetern Roman rempire. The Eastern Empremained until the 1450's when the Ottomans from present day Albania and Kosava in alliance with the Turks conquered IConstantinopl and renamed he city to Istanbul.

The most advanced scentific, medical and cultural development were maintained by the A rabs and the western Europeans was in he dark ages, That lasted until 762 when Chalemagne the king of the Franks defeated the invading Muslim army at Tours and drove them back into Spain. The Barbarians who conquered the Estern Roman Empire destroyed whatever science and other achevements of the Western Empire and covolizaion was kept alive in the Eastern Roman Empire and from Constatonpl;e spread to the West and No/rth. The dark Ages nearly destroy England when the Vikings attacke England and conquered Northumbria and York and in the end the country ws only saved by Alfred the Great who ruled in Wessex and ho were the only English King to be calle the Great. He imprvoed education and built what is today the city of Winchester so read the following:-'

Read the following sumamry, Alfred used religion to enhance educaion and also governance. He did more for sving of England from the Vikings and retain Anglo-Saxon culture and proper Governance to prevent dedtruction of he country.

What was left of the Western Empire after the fall of Rome wa destroyed by the invading tribeds. What shibrainm did not know was that some of the alst Roman Emporers were German and not Roman and Rome decayed into a mess such as NewYork is today. All the signs of decay of Western Civilization that is similar to what happened to the Western Roman Empire and caused its destruction is now evident in Europe and the USA. Tottal loss of human value and of decnt norms are beig destroyed hrough the Woke Culture and crooked politicians like the ultra-left Demcorats are destroying the USA and wh at is left of the EU. No morals and that is what is the most evident ecvidnce of imminent llapse f the whole West and what the Roman Empire did as destruction of the Roman financial system - sme as the leftist Governments in Euriope do\\

Your type of idocy is what helps the destruction of Western Civilization and of demcoracy and you are too brainwashed and idiotic to realize you are part of people that is destoying it.. ,

Winchester is a cathedral city in Hampshire, England, known for its rich history and beautiful surroundings. It was the capital of England and the seat of King Alfred the Great, and is now a popular tourist destination. The city boasts landmarks like Winchester Cathedral and Winchester College, one of the oldest public schools in the UK. .

1. Does Allah exist?
2. Does Buddha Exist?
3. Does the Biblical God Exist?
4. Does Jehovah exist?

While there has been some good out of religion, it is still from humans, not God (Assuming none of these gods exist).

A bit like believing in Santa as a kid. Even if it is not true, the belief itself can create some good.

Do moraity exist and why is it tied in with religion. Iy is because people need sonmething to improve their quality of life, When that coallapse such as happened in teh USA and Europe the civilization is in the alst stages of destruction.

The fact is it is believe ina dvinty that has been part of humans rom after the last Ice age and was the mainstay of the Chiese, Induian, Sumerian and Egyptian cuktures that helped and develop it. The Greeks their cultue based on what they elarned from teh Egyptians and Phoenisitians. The Persian Empire eventuially conquerd by Alexander turned the Greeks into a more learned and civilized naiona nad that is wher the Judicial system and a smeblance of Democracy started, Fact is the Greeks themselves said Demcracy is a bad form of Government and used a limted kind of Demcoracy - ie voting was restricted to men with a standard of education and to traders and not the system we call Democracy today.

So what did the Romans do they implmented the Greek Gods in Rome ater conquering Greece and als got from the Greeks engineeting and architecture ad expanded and used it theoughout the empite, So what happened to all those civilizations and why duid they come to an end? Simple ethics and morality collapse furthe enhnce by economi collase,

The enemies f Demcracy are using the present morally-deficient people and fiancial crooks stealing money from Government to destroy the Western Civilization and that is what you believe in.

. ,

DeepSeek opines:

Prompt: "Would you say that Christianity or the ancient Greeks and Romans have had more impact on the world today?"

Result:

Both Christianity and ancient Greek and Roman civilisations have had enormous impacts on the modern world, but in different ways. The question of which has been more influential depends on the aspects of society being considered.

Christianity’s Impact:

1. Moral & Ethical Framework – Christian teachings shaped Western legal systems, human rights concepts (e.g., inherent human dignity), and social welfare traditions.
2. Global Spread – As the world's largest religion (with over 2 billion followers), Christianity influenced cultures across Europe, the Americas, Africa, and beyond.
3. Art, Literature & Education – The Church preserved knowledge during the Middle Ages, founded universities, and inspired countless works of art (Michelangelo, Dante, Bach).
4. Political & Legal Systems – Concepts like natural law, the separation of church and state (though often contested), and even democracy in some forms were influenced by Christian thought.
5. Calendar & Holidays – The Gregorian calendar (based on Christ’s birth) and holidays like Christmas and Easter are globally recognised.

Ancient Greece & Rome’s Impact:

1. Philosophy & Reason – Greek thinkers (Socrates, Plato, Aristotle) laid the groundwork for Western philosophy, science, and logic.
2. Democracy & Governance – Athens pioneered democracy, while Rome developed republicanism, law (Roman law is the basis for many legal systems today), and administrative structures.
3. Language & Literature – Latin and Greek shaped modern languages, and classical texts (Homer, Virgil, Cicero) remain foundational in education.
4. Engineering & Architecture – Roman innovations (aqueducts, roads, concrete) and Greek architectural styles (columns, theatres) still influence modern infrastructure.
5. Science & Mathematics – Greek advancements in geometry (Euclid), astronomy (Ptolemy), and medicine (Hippocrates) were foundational for later progress.

Which Had More Influence?

1. If considering governance, law, science, and philosophy ? The Greeks and Romans might have a slight edge, as their ideas were foundational even to Christian Europe.
2. If considering cultural, moral, and global religious influence ? Christianity’s spread and integration into societies give it a broader impact in shaping values and institutions.
3. Synergy Between Them – Christianity itself absorbed and transmitted Greek philosophy (e.g., Aquinas’ use of Aristotle) and Roman administrative structures (the Catholic Church’s hierarchy). The modern West is essentially a fusion of both.

Conclusion:

It’s difficult to say definitively which was more impactful because they influenced different domains and often merged over time. However, Christianity’s role in shaping global ethics, culture, and institutions might give it a broader reach today, while Greek and Roman contributions are more foundational in intellectual and political systems. Together, they form the bedrock of Western civilisation and much of the modern world.

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1. Art, Literature & Education – The Church preserved knowledge during the Middle Ages, founded universities, and inspired countless works of art (Michelangelo, Dante, Bach).

I would disagree on this point - that "religion has had more impact on art, literature and education".

The reason is that this only happened "after" the Renaissance, which I believe was more inspiring for Leonardo, Michelangelo, etc.

The Church did commission the works and used biblical subjects, but why did this only happen after the cultural revival, the result of finding lost records from the ancient Greeks & Romans?

Another point I would raise is that Christianity improved after the Renaissance. So Christianity evolved through the Renaissance.

Bearing in mind that the ancient Greeks/Romans were before Christianity, so it could not have been inspired by Christianity.

Ooh ooh...now let's talk about the societies that renounced spirituality.

...like Stalin's Russia.

How'd that go?

Selective arguements....

Selective arguments are a form of biased reasoning that can distort discussions and should be identified and challenged for balanced and logical debate

1. How is Putin's Christian Russia going?
2. How is Muslim going within the Arab world, and outside it?

Ooh ooh...now let's talk about the societies that renounced spirituality.

.Japan, Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland, Norway, Canada, Finland, Germany, Australia, New Zealand, Netherlands

How'd that go? Very well for them actually

Now how about some countries with Spirituality like:

Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Somalia, Bangladesh, India, (America? lol)

How did it go for them?

I know which group 99.9% of people would choose.

LMAO!

Bam!

Down goes ButtPlug!

Oh, I didn't realise that those countries "renounced" spirituality, Sader.

Let's ask ChatGPT what percentages of the populations in those countries you listed identify as religious or spiritual.

I'm detecting a mega-oopsie coming...

????

Japan

1. Religious/Spiritual Identification: Approximately 30%–40% identify with organized religion.
2. Cultural Practice: Despite low formal affiliation, many participate in rituals and visit shrines or temples for cultural reasons.

????

Denmark

1. Religious/Spiritual Identification: Less than 20% consider themselves “very religious.”
2. Church Membership: Approximately 72% are registered members of the Evangelical Lutheran Church, though regular attendance is low.

????

Sweden

1. Religious/Spiritual Identification: Around 33.5% identify as non-religious or unspecified.
2. Church Membership: Approximately 53% are members of the Church of Sweden.

????

Switzerland

1. Religious/Spiritual Identification: Approximately 64.4% identify with a religion.
2. Unaffiliated: 35.6% have no religious affiliation.

????

Norway

1. Religious/Spiritual Identification: Approximately 80% identify with a religion.
2. Unaffiliated: 20% have no religious affiliation.

????

Canada

1. Religious/Spiritual Identification: Approximately 63.7% identify with a religion.
2. Unaffiliated: 36.3% have no religious affiliation.

????

Finland

1. Religious/Spiritual Identification: Approximately 67.6% identify with a religion.
2. Unaffiliated: 32.4% have no religious affiliation.

????

Germany

1. Religious/Spiritual Identification: Approximately 53% identify with a religion.
2. Unaffiliated: 47% have no religious affiliation.

????

Australia

1. Religious/Spiritual Identification: Approximately 61.1% identify with a religion.
2. Unaffiliated: 38.9% have no religious affiliation.

????

New Zealand

1. Religious/Spiritual Identification: Approximately 48.4% identify with a religion.
2. Unaffiliated: 51.6% have no religious affiliation.

????

Netherlands

1. Religious/Spiritual Identification: Approximately 45% identify with a religion.
2. Unaffiliated: 55% have no religious affiliation

So it would appear that you're kinda uninformed, Sader.

You should just admit that you secretly want to be a Christian.

Now can we talk about counties that ACTUALLY renounced religion and how it went for them?

PS Rooi, you've gotta stop storming out of the gates and into brick walls. Or keep just keep embarrassing yourself. You're starting to smell a little desperate.

Bam down goes Sader and down goes Vaccine clinging to his coat-tails. But Vaccine tell us again about how Columbus only prospered because he was vaccinated…..hahaha!

Hmmm strange I looked into Russian society and approximately 75% of the population is religious. Far more religious than all I listed apart from Norway.

So if 75% religious is what you classify as a non spiritual society 10 out of the 11 I listed fit your category as non spiritual.

Bam down goes "Bud" and Moz hahahaha.

You really should think things through before posting there Bud you keep making a fool out of yourself.

‘Stalin’s Russia’ Sader….this is a summary:

’The “Godless Five-Year Plan,” launched in 1928, gave local cells of the anti-religious organization, League of Militant Atheists, new tools to disestablish religion. Churches were closed and stripped of their property, as well as any educational or welfare activities that went beyond simple liturgy.

Leaders of the church were imprisoned and sometimes executed, on the grounds of being anti-revolution. The few clergy who remained were replaced by those deemed to be sympathetic to the regime, rendering the church still more toothless as a possible focal point for dissent or counter-revolution.

….

The godless 5 year plan. Not spiritual I would say. But your bigger problem is correlation doesn’t necessarily imply causation. Is it the lack of religion that drives material success or is it the material success that drives the lack of religion.

Almost every successful country 80 years ago was very religious and then declined in religious affiliation as ‘science’ became the new religion. So would they have become successful in the first place without religion? We don’t know. We do know religion was no impediment to success.

Bam down goes Sader,

Anecdotal evidence isn't enough—virtually every country was religious 80 years ago, so linking religiosity to national success or failure doesn't hold up.

Many people are affiliated with a religion, even I went to Sunday school.

Most of thes people could at best be considered Agnostic. So when these people have kids, they will probably not be affiliated a Church.

Yes most countries were religious and steadily improved their standards of living. Which as I said, only disproves the theory that religion hampers economic progress, it doesn’t prove the reverse.

Communist China and Russia are two examples of economic failure in the 40 years following WW2…,two countries where the State suppressed religion. But again correlation is not causation and their failures probably had more to do with the inability to innovate under this kind of regime.

The most likely link between religion and economic progress probably stems from gathering in cathedral towns, which promoted commerce, security and religion’s role in education. Which are influences occurring at the outset of economic progress, but probably an essential step if you start in the early Middle Ages.

Did Russian society reject spirituality as Bud claims?

The communist leaders may have but obviously not society itself (otherwise 3/4 of the population wouldn't not be spiritual now) Bud claimed the society had rejected it during Stalin's rule.

If this is the basis of the claim then one can equally claim that Nazi Germany failed because of its social spirituality, Turned out even worse for them than it did for Russia

Bam goes Moz again

"Bam goes Moz again"

LMAO!

Why does the doddering old fool keep getting up?

I suspect it's because his fawning Alpha Gimp is too stupid to throw in the towel and keeps encouraging the egg-faced old relic instead.

Sader,

When you look up the space goes on forever.

When you look down, the smallest particles present yet another infinity..

...that's where religion and philosophy come in.

A portion of society will always need faith and belief in order to stave off the existential crisis that comes along with being a conscious creature positioned somewhere on the ribbon between two seeming infinities.

Of course we should call out the evil acts committed in the name of religion, but it becomes a little pointless when it's teenage level vitriol purely for the sake of spite. I love debating philosophy and religion, because it's all about perspective and underneath everybody's belief is normally something interesting that drives it.

...but a guy like you is simply trying to prove that your thoughts are correct, when it's completely uncertain that anybody's idea of it is correct.

TLDR; grow up

Well Sader if religion is totally suppressed as it was under Stalin and Mao and being overtly religious was actually dangerous….the space left for spirituality was very narrow. Not public, not institutional …..almost totally private. All the institutional benefits of religion….moral leadership, community gatherings, role in education, charitable acts….all suppressed.

Those were not societies benefiting from spirituality….they were societies in the thrall of intellectual and religious repression. And they failed.

ButtPlug

Hall Of Famer

14,589 posts

Apr 23, 2025, 14:55

A portion of society will always need faith and belief in order to stave off the existential crisis that comes along with being a conscious creature positioned somewhere on the ribbon between two seeming infinities.

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That is an opinion, not a fact...

Some people prefer to only have a semblance of reality and live their lives along with society, trying to work things out. Maybe that is the purpose of life?

If people are brainwashed into believing in a religion from a very young age, they would become psychologically dependent on this to make sense of the world.

1. Look at the Muslims for an extreme example.
2. Look at the Red states in America that are intellectually inferior to places like New York, California, etc. The more religious a place is in America, the dumber it appears to be.

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Sader,

When you look up the space goes on forever. When you look down, the smallest particles present yet another infinity..

...that's where religion and philosophy come in.

That is opinion, not fact.

Just because an evolved ape does not understand everything about the universe, physics - or even philosophy, that is not mean the existence of a God - particularly not a biblical God. People with the most knowledge of science, are typically the least religious. They might not be atheist, but they do believe that the existence or non-existence of a God would have to be proven to be an accepted fact.

Carl Sagan has some interesting ideas on this.

Carl Sagan did not advocate suspending belief entirely. Instead, he emphasized suspending belief for the sake of intellectual honesty and scientific inquiry. He believed that rigid skepticism could hinder progress by blocking new ideas, while also highlighting the importance of not accepting something as truth simply because it is comforting or reassuring, especially in the face of a grave illness.

Suspension of Belief in Science:

Sagan championed the scientific method, which involves tentatively holding beliefs and constantly testing them against evidence. He believed that the "demon-haunted world" was characterized by unsubstantiated beliefs and misinformation, and that science played a crucial role in dispelling these myths.

Intellectual Courage:

Sagan encouraged individuals to be intellectually courageous and to challenge their own beliefs and biases. He recognized the importance of being open to new ideas, even if they contradicted existing assumptions.

Not Rigid Skepticism:

While advocating for a healthy dose of skepticism, Sagan cautioned against becoming a "crotchety misanthrope" who rejects all new ideas. He believed that rigid skepticism could lead to a closed mind, hindering progress and understanding.

The Importance of Open-Mindedness:

Sagan emphasized the need for an open mind to embrace new discoveries and learn from the ongoing exploration of the universe.

Inspiration and Comfort:

While not explicitly stating to suspend belief for comfort, Sagan acknowledged that people seek comfort in beliefs, especially during difficult times. However, he was determined to avoid relying on such comforting beliefs if they lacked evidence.

"Just because an evolved ape does not understand everything about the universe, physics - or even philosophy, that is not mean the existence of a God"

You misunderstood what I was saying, Visser.

We might find the edge of the universe one day and perhaps also finally agree that there isn't another layer beneath the quantum. Until then, we're confronted with infinity in both directions.

And as long as that is the case, people will always need art, philosophy and religion to round off the corners for us.

Not everybody needs it, but some do. Some need it even though they think they don't...ask Sader why he's spending his retirement in Asia getting pissed every day. I'd bet that it's not because he's totally fine with his existence.

So no, I am not advocating for a God of the gaps.

...but I'd much rather talk to Draad about why he believes what he believes and what it does for him than come here and act like a teenager that has just discovered he doesn't have to go to Sunday school.

Anyway, I've said all this on here before.

Also, you literally copy and paste my post...and then edit my tag to "Buttplug".

Respect, that had me chuckling.

Plum...I don’t want to live in a pure random world...I need order and a reason for right or wrong...without a reason or laws, there is no right or wrong and everyone can do what they want as long as they can get away with it...I don’t want that chaos...there must be Good and order...Evil and Chaos are the absence of those...like darkness is the absence of light....that and the fact that order from chaos or life from dead matter, without the action of some Force, is nonsensical...never mind scientific...

Unfortunately, Draad has been on too much of the Kool-Aid.

Dradd do you realise that we currently in the most peaceful time that mankind has ever known (since the 2nd world war) which coincides with the rise in Atheism?

Also Plum you're talking shit I only get pissed every 2nd day 555

I love how you claim you know something about me simple based on your narrow view on life.

I worked hard for over 40 years I am now living the life many envy (not all as people have different goals in life) every day I wake up and have to pinch myself to how good I have life.

Who knows one day you might find what makes you happy but don't try to bring me down to your miserable existence. You really come across as a miserable git that envy people that have found happiness.

The day I have had enough of this life I will change it. What that entails who knows but I know there is more to see and do than I will ever have the time to experience.