FIXTURESNo upcoming fixtures — check back soon.
FORUM / RUGBY /  10,12 & 13

10,12 & 13

Started by Saffolk 28 REPLIES1,105 VIEWS· 11 Sept 2025, 01:13
SHAREXFACEBOOKWHATSAPPTELEGRAMREDDITLINKEDIN
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Sept 2025, 01:13
#1
11 Sept 2025, 01:13#1
Why the Springboks 10, 12 and 13 axis is bigger than Saturday’s result


Bigger than a result on Saturday in Wellington will be the electricity at who has been picked at 10, 12 and 13 for the Springboks, writes Mark Keohane


This season it has become obvious that the back to back World Cup winning Springboks are a squad in transition. Who of the old guard leaves gracefully, who gets butchered and which of the new guard, respectfully slots in for the 2026 Great Rivalry Home Series against the All Blacks in 2026 and the 2027 Rugby World Cup?

This season has been a reminder that time is the greatest opponent in every aspect of the game and life, and time never loses.


Times has no mercy or empathy or sympathy.

Time just calls time.


After the eight year journey, from Number Seven in the World to Number One, back to back World Cup winners, a British & Irish Lions series win in 2021 and the Rugby Championship title in 2024, those originals are exhausted as a group, fatigued and seemingly done.

Individually, many can move on, but as collective the best is in the past tense.

Handre Pollard, Damian de Allende and Jesse Kriel are the most decorated 10.12 and 13 backline axis in the history of Springboks rugby. Lukyano Am had 18 glorious months at No 13 and there have been a few big time cameos at No 10, outside of Pollard.


Individually, all three may still be there in 2027, but collectively it is doubtful that would be the starting 10, 12 and 13 for a 2027 World Cup play-off.


Instead, Rassie Erasmus has picked a 10, 12 and and 13 combination that could be electric in 2027 and, if not, at full tilt at the 2031 World Cup in the United States of America.

Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu is a generational player. He has it all. He is the No 10.


Damian Willemse is a generational player and the youngest player in the history of the game to win two World Cup titles. He has it all. He is the No 12.


Canan Moodie is another generational player and he has been electric on either wing for the Boks and sublime in the No 13 jersey. He plays No 13 on Saturday.


The trio have never played together for the Boks at 10, 12 and 13. The trio are all born and bred in the Western Cape and all three attended three of the most famous schools, with Feinberg-Mngomezulu from Bishops, Willemse from Paul Roos and Moodie from Boland Landbou (Agriculture).

Their comfort on one wing is another Capetonian, Kraaifontein’s Brackenfell High Cheslin Kolbe.


Inside of then is a veteran going to the Stormers in Cobus Reinach and another from the rich rugby town of Paarl in Grant Williams (Paarl Gimnasium).


Nos 10, 12 and 13 are effective if the pack is effective and Erasmus has picked a starting eight full of World Cup winners and a forwards bench of potential and World Cup-winning pedigree.


I don’t for a moment doubt the capability of Pollard, De Allende and Kriel in the next 24 months, but finally the next trio has been entrusted to start a Test against the All Blacks in New Zealand.


If they compete and thrive, they will never have a tougher assignment in their careers.


What they also need is to be backed to play together as a trio in more than the occasional Test.


Erasmus has selected an exciting match 23, but he has also picked one that either wins the Test or could fold and lose by 20.


Whatever the outcome he needs to play these guys more and he needs to play these combinations more.

Of all the combinations for Saturday, nothing is more exciting than the 10, 12 and 13 he has picked. Add Kolbe, newbie Ethan Hooker on the wing and Aphelele Fassi at fullback and you could be looking at the core of the next wave of Bok backline brilliance.


Bear in mind Kurt-Lee Arendse, Edwill van der Merwe and Makazole Mampimpi are stilll around, I am talking 2027 and beyond.


Feinberg-Mngomezulu is 23 years old, Willemse just turned 27 and Moodie is 22 year-old.


They have played 65 Tests combined, with Willemse the most experienced and all three have beaten the All Blacks


PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
11 Sept 2025, 07:23
#2
11 Sept 2025, 07:23#2

Say what you want, but it's a disgrace that AE isn't being allowed to start at 12.


After all he's done, after the amount of times he's been ignored. Willemse, who is a part time 12, gets selected ahead of him.


I'll ask again, why is AE even there? Why did he get to start against OZ? Why was he in combination with Moodie in midfield? What was the point of it all when Rassie still doesn't trust him with the 12 jersey when it matters.


What this tells me is that Rassie has strung him along all of this time, with AE obviously believing he's next in line, but when it gets down to it, Rassie goes for a non-specialist at 12. What does that do to AE's confidence? What does it do to his morale? His loyalty?


Same as RG was completely ignored this past weekend and is coming off the bench this weekend. The guy is the world's premier lock right now. When he's fit he's probably the first name in the sheet at Leinster. He had a mega season, made team of the week regularly and was instrumental in their success.


What does Rassie do? Well, in the biggest game of the year, he totally ignores him.


Listen, if a guy is that good, and he's playing that well, it's on you as Bok coach if you can't get the same performance out of him that his club manager does.


I'll bet anyone any money that Rassie, the genius, will start RG against Argentina. Because that's well in line with the circus-like selection policies that have been the other of the day under the Mad King.


Regardless of what anyone says, I have a feeling that all isn't well in the Bok camp. And I wouldn't be surprised if there were some very unhappy Boks secretly eyerolling at Rassie's ridiculousness.



MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
11 Sept 2025, 08:21
#3
11 Sept 2025, 08:21#3

" Bigger than a result on Saturday" and there we have it folks, Dr. Lucky,s get out of jail card.


Win or lose, he stays the hero. Rightfully the team should not have been changed, only with minor changes, like Wilco to start and AE in Midfield with Kriel.


I am sure the guys are not happy to lose the chance at revenge.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Sept 2025, 08:39
#4
11 Sept 2025, 08:39#4

Very unfortunate for AE but he is no longer the future and rightly so he is 31


Willemse is the man for 12 moving forward - it makes perfect sense to see how he goes at 12 for an extended period


Willemse will play it differently, AE would have given us more of what DA did - the direct route


Willemse will lean towards the Jordie Barrett role but with better ammunition to attack the very limited space in that channel

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
11 Sept 2025, 09:45
#5
11 Sept 2025, 09:45#5

Explain RG to me, Dawie.


Why?


Why on earth would anyone not be starting him?



CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
11 Sept 2025, 10:35
#6
11 Sept 2025, 10:35#6

Plum...


RG is a very perculier discussion....

No doubt he has been in incredible form in the URC.

I get the feeling, and I may agree that Rassie see's him winning games from the bench, which is plausable because of the impact he has.

Will he have the same impact over 80 mins, I'm not sure.


So I also rate him so highly and in my opinion, he is the cream of the crop.

But I'd keep him on the bench. Let him go out in the 60th minute and win us some games.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Sept 2025, 10:38
#7
11 Sept 2025, 10:38#7

Am with you Plum 100% - not starting RG pisses me off beyond words


This idea of him off the bench is bullshit - with that you only get 30 min of him versus 50 if he starts


It’s pure sacrilege that Eben and RG do not have 50 starts together


Rassie has a blind spot when it comes to locks - first it was Mostert, now it’s Nortje


Its complete bullshit

CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
11 Sept 2025, 12:13
#8
11 Sept 2025, 12:13#8

Why David? WHYYYYYY?

Am I not good enough to reply to?

Do I need to offer you special favours?

Is it because im black?

Is it because im liberal?

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
11 Sept 2025, 12:35
#9
11 Sept 2025, 12:35#9

Is it because im liberal?


Well, now Trad's not going to like you either.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Sept 2025, 12:43
#10
11 Sept 2025, 12:43#10

Chip chip it’s because you are black - I responded at night and could not see you - you need to smile more


Or it could be…..


‘Plum...


RG is a very perculier discussion....

No doubt he has been in incredible form in the URC.’


CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
11 Sept 2025, 12:46
#11
11 Sept 2025, 12:46#11

David

it is dark wherever you go.

not because you are evil, but because you’re so fat, your butna casts a shadow on everyone around you.


so shut the fuck up and go and lose some weight you fat, gay, tax evading pedophile.

CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
11 Sept 2025, 12:47
#12
11 Sept 2025, 12:47#12

And @plum… let me know your thoughts on my thoughts on RG

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Sept 2025, 13:00
#13
11 Sept 2025, 13:00#13

Chip you forgot racist :)

CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
11 Sept 2025, 13:07
#14
11 Sept 2025, 13:07#14

D, you been following the whole Charlie Kirk shooting?


fuck me it’s shocking.

to be honest I never really knew of him until last night…


The world is fucked man.

life has become so cheap.

we need to protect our kids from so much crap out there.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Sept 2025, 13:43
#15
11 Sept 2025, 13:43#15

Plum


Say what you want, but it's a disgrace that AE isn't being allowed to start at 12.


The fact is that Esterhuizen had 22 tests and achieved zero in those tests and you fail to realize tthat the 31 year o;d is not going to s how any improvement in tests, So stop your BS please before I really tell you what AE really is. .


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Sept 2025, 14:13
#16
11 Sept 2025, 14:13#16

Yeah Chip it’s crazy - did not know much about him


Ironic that his last words on stage was about gun violence in the US

CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
11 Sept 2025, 14:16
#17
11 Sept 2025, 14:16#17

Also never knew much about him before.

Watched a lot on insta and twitter since then... looks like he was a goodie.

Very sad.



PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
11 Sept 2025, 15:30
#18
11 Sept 2025, 15:30#18

Chip


RG starts for his club he does well. There's no reason he can't do it for his country.


For me, looking at the current squad and recent performances, we can afford to have a bomb squad type deal at the moment.


I feel like we need to start our best in position players, go into the lead, and then manage the game from there, depending where we are at 40 minutes, at 60 minutes.


This cutsie nonsense needs to stop. Wilco and Reg must start. If/when they start fading then replace them.


That's my view anyway.



CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
11 Sept 2025, 17:29
#19
11 Sept 2025, 17:29#19

Fair point.


heard a podcast with a few ex Boks saying how the game has changed.


they almost feel as if the bench wins you the game now days. Which is also true when you think of our recent history.


The starters come on and play and wear the opposition down. Then the bench come on and secure the game.

that’s the thinking anyway.


but your point reigns true. We can only do that if we have a proper bomb squad

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Sept 2025, 17:45
#20
11 Sept 2025, 17:45#20

Which is exactly why Wilco should be starting - he is the best scrumming tighthead in the game but offers little in general play other than his bulk.


With him dominating the scrums that lifts the team and demoralises the opposition


Thomas is a great ball playing prop, far more mobile and active in general play - surely he should be coming on in the last 30 to stand solid in the scrums and add his value in general play when the opposition are spent


Same applies to RG, he has a skill set no other tight forward has, his offloading creates opportunities as witnessed when playing for Leinster. He needs 50 min doing that not 30. He also happens to be as physical as Eben so fuck me it’s obvious that Wilco and RG should be starting to ensure we enforce a physical edge


We have enough armoury to load the bench with players that can operate as a bomb squad - AH Venter, Dweba, Wessels, Thomas, Gerhard Steenkamp, Cobus Wiese, Ruben v Heerden, Ruan Vermaak, JF v Heerden etc


Rassie is definitely getting it wrong. He has moved to make the backline better he needs to do the same with the forwards

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
11 Sept 2025, 18:17
#21
11 Sept 2025, 18:17#21

Maybe we should get ready to admit that Nienaber was the real brains of the operation.

CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
11 Sept 2025, 18:33
#22
11 Sept 2025, 18:33#22

Haha Pakie

CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
11 Sept 2025, 18:35
#23
11 Sept 2025, 18:35#23

David

i agreed with you, but you lost all my respect at Dweba!


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Sept 2025, 19:11
#24
11 Sept 2025, 19:11#24

I like Dweba - nice and physical

CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
11 Sept 2025, 22:35
#25
11 Sept 2025, 22:35#25

David I believe you may be confusing this with your taste in women…

BE
becsPro4,378 posts
11 Sept 2025, 22:42
#26
11 Sept 2025, 22:42#26

Ha ha ha !

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
12 Sept 2025, 00:50
#27
12 Sept 2025, 00:50#27

Chip you have me confused with Buttplug - he likes his woman to have more muscles than him


Which of course does not take much !!

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
12 Sept 2025, 06:51
#28
12 Sept 2025, 06:51#28

Hey, Dave...


In this home gym "church" of yours...do you have a bench and what's your limit?







PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
12 Sept 2025, 07:09
#29
12 Sept 2025, 07:09#29

Chip, I think we could still do a bomb squad.


But it needs some of the younger guys to be fit and some of the older guys to have a line drawn under their Bon careers.


We don't have any problems at hooker. But I'm not convinced by Tank, and now that the fattest black man in SA has been called out for "substances"...we have prop issues. In the second and back row I think we have more than enough players to continue the bomb squad thing.


The spanner in the works is fading out the older guys while still trying to maintain two dominant packs.


Which is why I'm thinking that, right now, we're better off starting with our best pack in every game, and getting as much mileage as possible out of those guys. As we fade out the older guys and land on a fresher pack that is still dominant, then we can get back to the bomb squad.


So I don't think it's a replacement problem. It's more of having to show loyalty to the double World Cup winners and allowing them time to play themselves out of contention.


Guys like PSDT, Eben, Mostert, Kwagga, Kolisi...there's a long list of guys that are owed plenty of loyalty. But it's safe to say that as a collective they have been slipping.


And there are worthy replacements for all of them. But they have to put in the types of performances where Rassie can safely let them go without too much backlash. It's tricky thing. And I think it's almost impossible to do while trying to keep the bomb squad tactic.


That's how I'm currently seeing it anyway

— END OF THREAD —

More from Rugby