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A Bok team team with a shout

Started by Mozart38 REPLIES1,141 VIEWS· 25 Jun 2015, 14:26
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MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 Jun 2015, 14:26
#1
25 Jun 2015, 14:26#1

Willie

Senatla

De Allende

Frans

Habana

Pollard

F du Preez

 

 

Beast/Kitshoff

Bismarck

Malherbe/Jannie

Etzebeth

Matfield/Flip

Louw

Schalk

Vermeulen

 

Some of the forwards are bracketed, depending on opposition. Against the Bargies I would start Jannie. His technical solidity helps. Against weaker packs like the Aussies Malherbe can create more damage.

 

I choose Senatla ahead of JP and Hendricks, because I think he will be no worse on defence and he gives us the long strike x factor Habana did in 2007. He will rack up a lot of tries in the pool games and force defences to allocate resources.

 

 

That backline has 5 dangerous runners...only Frans and F du Preez, who add balance, aren't in that category.

 

In the pack I would have preferred if Willemse had been developed....but we haven't seen him for a year now in SH play....so realistically we have to go with Flip, who has more experience and is also very powerful. Flip to start against NZ....Victor against Oz.

 

We miss flaring pace in the loosies but have three strong contributors....Kriel is a bench option if conditions dictate a switch to a more attacking approach.

DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
25 Jun 2015, 15:01
#2
25 Jun 2015, 15:01#2
 (Was Lestat)

We need a hard runner at 12 to free up DA at 13. Frans would be perfect. This nonsense of Jean at 13 are at best delusional. To have DA at 12 with Jean at 13 we would have the most awkwardly inverted and dysfunctional pairing. If you can get the hard yards inside DA can be very dangerous. But as the lone punch runner he is largely ineffective. Where we decide to play DA and how we choose to use him is going to have a significant say on how effective we are on attack and defence. He cannot cope with direct pressure on defence, but at 13 he coukd be fine. And with Willie in the backline there should be ample opportunity to run riot. But you have got to have those hard runners to lay the foundation first! Australia's attack has floundered for most of this century because they don't have direct runners. McCabe failed to deliver and only Toomua has done anything. They have had far more talented runners than DA all across the backline and have ended up playing a very lateral game behind the gainline. We cannot afford to go down that route. And it's one the Stormers went down! Trying to use systems where de Jongh, Kolisi and the pack created opportunities for DA to attack the fringes of the defence with space. Two outside centres and no 12 to lay down the hard yards. In all the videos I watched I didn't see DA run one unders line, no support lines to create for anyone else. In all their set-plays I went through, DA was always the deep support runner or the strike runner attacking outside. These aren't things the fanboys like to hear, but they are the facts.

Moz, your backline is the most balanced I have seen from anyone in quite some time. 
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 Jun 2015, 16:25
#3
25 Jun 2015, 16:25#3
Rommel I'm confident with a good defensive coach the axis of Pollard, Frans and de Allende  can be made very solid. I wish we had a dominant fetcher, but Bismarck helps on the deck. 
I give that team a strong chance of doing the business.
OI
oimatey
Pro1,870 posts
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
25 Jun 2015, 16:37
#4
25 Jun 2015, 16:37#4
Good team.
Anyone writing off the Boks is making a big mistake. With Bissie, Louw, Vermuelen we have three guys that can dominate breakdown. Bissie has been great since returning from his suspension - hopefully a wake-up call. Schalk brings needed creativity. With the Stormers front row we have potentially game changing scrum dominance - looking forward to seeing that combo in the RC. Pollard seemed to be coasting the last half of the S15 and a big reason I think the Bulls tanked, but I expect him to raise his game again for RC and RWC and as long as his kicking remains solid he brings an added dimension over Morne. 
Not convinced about Steyn at 12, DeAllende at 13. As much as DeAllende struggles with quicker guys in defense (Kuridrani front and center) not sure that is the best spot for him or the Boks. But the center combination is difficult, so this may well prove the best. 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Jun 2015, 16:49
#5
25 Jun 2015, 16:49#5
 Mozart
You must be kidding in respect of some selections - you cannot possibly be serious.   Lets look at somer funny ones proposed by you:-
*   Fransie Steyn - did squat over the last three years to warrant selection.  Lack of pace makes him a poor defender and useless in attacking play.   His inclusion would be a joke in bad taste.
*   Jannie against Argentina - in the tests last year he was in full retreat in scrums - went backward like it is unbelievable and give away penalties galore.   You want him to start against Argentina - are you really serious in that case?
*    Flip - the penalty machine - opted out of international rugby and Matfield is a joke at this stage - no grunt, minimal line-out takes and a farce as a lock.  Really funny selection that one.
         
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
25 Jun 2015, 16:58
#6
25 Jun 2015, 16:58#6
I have to agree, Bismarck has improved. I like how he took his problematic body position in contact and turned it into a positive by learning to offload. It added a nice dynamic to his game. But Strauss is still the best hooker in the world and does the same and more! 
Schalk helps us with his distribution and linking play. Although his physically has dipped markedly since 2009 he is still stronger and tougher than Kolisi but able to bring the same dynamism. His experience and more cerebral play is another boon.
I would still bank on Alberts, he was very effective with Duane as breakdown threats. 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Jun 2015, 17:01
#7
25 Jun 2015, 17:01#7
 Desert Fox
You changed your user name - but remains the most incoherent and stupid poster ever.    Your discussion on De Allende is so nonsensical and utterly wrong that it is not worth any comment.   
Frans as a hard runner - when did it happen in the past three years?  The guy who cannot make line breaks and cannot beat defenders - while players beat his defense continuously - seriously funny that one.
Let me be blunt - Fransie cannot read games and him cutting inside is a real joke.  When did you invent that one as a Steyn ability?   Fransie is the worst center in SA on Super 15 level and that was the case in 2 013 and 2014 as well.
Now run off and change your user-name again.   Rommel was a clever general - even opponents admired him - hence his nickname of Desert Fox.   You are a village idiot insofar as Rugby is concerned - so the user name Desert Fox is totally inappropriate.       
 


CL
CleanCut
Pro9,905 posts
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
25 Jun 2015, 17:06
#8
25 Jun 2015, 17:06#8
 
Not sure what's come over you, ol bean. Been at the drink perhaps??

Since when do you volunteer your Bok selection? Usually the only contribution we see from you is your criticism of others attempts.

As they say in Afrikaans "nou sit jy die pot heeltemal mis on perd"

Frans Steyn? ... a Bok? ... you mean you've deliberately picked him?

Waaaaaaahahahahahahahaa ...

in the place of the powerful, smoking hot De Allende, who by the way hasn't played 13 all season long?

Confused perhaps? Why pick him out of place? Where's De Jongh? Thought he was your man!!

Matfield? ... The useless Matfield ... ??? ... in the starting 15?? Instead of PSDT Willemse?

Ridiculous!!

No Kriel in the starting 15?

Where's Faf?

Truly ignorant ... aren't we Moffie??

Try again ... this time use a little more head ... ok??





DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
25 Jun 2015, 17:07
#9
25 Jun 2015, 17:07#9
Michael, it is hilarious that you have to dub yourself clever, as if to remind others that you are not stupid or not intending to be so! That's funny! 
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 Jun 2015, 17:33
#10
25 Jun 2015, 17:33#10
 Matey I agree de Allende looks vulnerable on the outside.....but the pickings are slim. He does add needed attacking clout. Frans is a big match player. The whole backline, including Pollard, will be more confident with him there.
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 Jun 2015, 17:36
#11
25 Jun 2015, 17:36#11
Carbuncle no doubt you are just upset because Maakniks......your big pick crashed and burned. 
CL
CleanCut
Pro9,905 posts
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
25 Jun 2015, 17:54
#12
25 Jun 2015, 17:54#12
 
Not at all moffie. He doesn't deserve to be there.

Funny thing is neither do fat Fransie or Matfield.

Get your head out your ass.

Wake up, man!!

I really expected better from you.

You have much to say about everyone elses picks and then dish this garbage up.

Tell me ... you weren't expecting everyone to compliment you on your selections ... were you??

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahaaaaa!!!




MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 Jun 2015, 18:03
#13
25 Jun 2015, 18:03#13

But you like PSDT....how did he deserve to be there. Playing two or three desultory games, then bested by Victor and then shampies, hurt again.

 

Still, lest we forget, here is a good shot of the most overrated player since Luke Watson.

 

 

 

DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
25 Jun 2015, 18:39
#14
25 Jun 2015, 18:39#14
The most overrated player since Watson is Lambie. He is in fact the most overrated player in Bok history. One dominant tackle in six years, one game winning kick, but still that overrun line that cost us a shot at the WC. 
Du Toit-Pom hasn't been hyped any where near that level. Heck, even Watson did some things right, enough to at least talk about him. At 10 Lambie does less than nothing and receives the highest of praised. That EOYT was a shambles by the Shark half-backs yet they got away with their reputations intact ! So not only over hyped but protected. 
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 Jun 2015, 18:51
#15
25 Jun 2015, 18:51#15
Lambie and Reinach made so many errors against Wales, the Boks couldn't establish any rhythm.  
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Jun 2015, 19:57
#16
25 Jun 2015, 19:57#16
 Mozart
The following is seriously funny:-
"Frans is a big match player."    Can you give us any example where since 2012 was a big match player in any tests or Super 15 games Fransie has shown he is indeed a big match player.    He may have been a big match player to the mind of some years ago - but we are living in 2015 and one has to look at recent performances.   Making a statement of a dubious nature as if it is a fact is absolute tripe - and that statement is tripe.    

CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Jun 2015, 20:05
#17
25 Jun 2015, 20:05#17
 Desert Disaster 
I do not run away from arguments and you live in an imaginary world.   If you think you  have ever beaten me in argument you are really delusional.   After  all you are the one that lose arguments and then think that by changing your user name you can start your BS again and again.  How many user names have you had on this site.   This is about the 6th one I can remember.   Every time you are found out to be stupid - you run along and change your user name.   
   
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Jun 2015, 20:10
#18
25 Jun 2015, 20:10#18
 Mozart
Back top the Welsh test - when will it ever enter your head that we lost the Wales test up front and that the balls the backs got in that test was poor.   That is a fact of life - your tripe on Lambie and Reinach is based on prejudice - not facts.
Fransie a big match player - am laughing my ass off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AG
AgPleezDeddy
Club Pro900 posts
AG
AgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
25 Jun 2015, 20:45
#19
25 Jun 2015, 20:45#19
15. Willie
14. Hougaard
13. 12.
11. Habana10. Pollard
9. Du Preez8. Vermuelen7. Burger6. Louw/Coetzee
5. Flip/PSDT
4. Etzebeth3. Malherbe
2. Bismarck
1. Beast/Kitshoff
I'd be happy with the 12/13 to be either Frans/De Allende or De Allende/Serfontein. 
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 Jun 2015, 21:04
#20
25 Jun 2015, 21:04#20
Appears  we are fairly close deddy. In fact most posters seem to be in this direction..an experienced team of competitors. Pollard, Frans and de Allende aren't going to be over awed. Every one of the backs in my team is a competitor, a player who enjoys competing...no Lambies, Reinachs, JJs or Jordaans. No Hendrichs missing tackles...no Hougaard blundering behind the loose scrum.
AB
ABasquefan
Pro2,549 posts
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
25 Jun 2015, 22:29
#21
25 Jun 2015, 22:29#21
 de Allende at 13?
with Senatla on one side and le Roux behind him?
Very weak defensively. That side of the field would be a strainer for the opposite attack and it would be targeted.
IMO the only bok option is to keep de Allende where he belongs, the inside center, with Serfontein taking the defensive task at 13. Sure he hasn't the best attacking nous but enough to take advantage of de Allende's offloads and open gaps.
On the wing, apart from Habana there's a lack of good and experienced players (Hendriks and Mvovo are very weak defensively).
Mapoe is IMO the one with the best balance btwin attack and defense.

10. Pollard

11. Habana

12. de Allende

13. Serfontein

14. Mapoe

15. Willie


DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
25 Jun 2015, 22:49
#22
25 Jun 2015, 22:49#22
 Hougaart or Combrinck at 14. Try Senatla from the bench for a few games. Frans and Fip are not available. De Allend was our best 12 by far, so at least keep him there for starters. Let him find his feet in test rugby before trying him at 13 again. Faf on the bench. We need to test a few 5's from the bench and give the backup 4 some time from the bench. Jannie should be backup from the bench while Koch and Malherbe are given time to prove themselves.The rest picked themselves.
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
25 Jun 2015, 23:16
#23
25 Jun 2015, 23:16#23
The Stormers have lacked that 12 who can straighten the attack and create space, and no position has greater potential for space creation than 12. 
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 Jun 2015, 23:16
#24
25 Jun 2015, 23:16#24
I thought by the end of the S15 Hougaard's form had dropped alarmingly.....but perhaps like many potential Boks he had his eye on the WC. Draad, Hougaard and Combrink are both competent players... but it's possible Senatla could provide the speed our backline needs. Having Habana out there transformed the Bok backline ....I don't think Hougaard or Combrink are going to do that.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Jun 2015, 01:18
#25
26 Jun 2015, 01:18#25
 Desert Disaster
The following is a quote with a dud deduction:-
"The problem is that the Stormers have based their entire gameplan on creating space for DA, not using him to create that space."

Fact is the situation was as follows:-
"The problem is that the Stormers have based their entire gameplan on DA, using him to create space."

De Allende in fact was one of the top line-breakers in Super 15 and tops the list of defenders beaten in that competition.   He was by a huge margin the best 12 in the tournament.  These facts mean nothing to our local village idiot.   He has yet to learn that line breaks and defenders beaten creates space for other players.    Yet the idiot says that Fransie Steyn's 1 line break and 8 defenders beaten shows a player that create space for others and that the useless and clueless Juan De Jongh creates space for De Allende.
Another joke by the crackpot namechanger is the following:-
"I would still bank on Alberts, he was very effective with Duane as breakdown threats. Far more so than Bismarck or Louw!"
This cannot be a serious statement - even by a village idiot.   Alberts in three years has NEVER recovered a single ball in breakdown situations - yet he is according to the crackpot a breakdown threat.    Matter of fact Alberts in 90% of the cases arrive at breakdown points far too late to have an impact at breakdown situations and by the time he gets to the first breakdown - the second one a distance away is already under way.   That is why the clumsy and slow Alberts rarely contributes even to mauls being formed at breakdown points.    
The above again shows that it is impossible to have a logical discussion with the "user name change"  maniac.  Whatever cracks his coconut I suppose.
         
DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
26 Jun 2015, 01:22
#26
26 Jun 2015, 01:22#26
 That's why I am all for it to start Sanatla off the bench.I wonder why Habana has not been properly tried at 13 for the Boks. He might have lost a bit of speed recently, but he still sees the game better than most.
AG
AgPleezDeddy
Club Pro900 posts
AG
AgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
26 Jun 2015, 01:35
#27
26 Jun 2015, 01:35#27
I think Hougaard is the guy for the other wing spot, he's quick, a strong runner and very capable on defence. I'd be happy to give Senatla the games before the world cup and the group games, to find out how he handles it. We know that if we have to throw Hougaard into the deep end, in case Senatla doesn't work out, he'll be okay. 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Jun 2015, 01:37
#28
26 Jun 2015, 01:37#28
 Draad
Habana was early in his career tried out as a 1`3 - but never really showed the ability to play in that position.   I think he would have been wasted at 13 - he proved to be one of the best wings ever - and to move him to 13 would have been to my mind a gamble.   
Playing anybody at 13 to my mind requires more physicality than is required on the wing and that is probably the reason for his move to the wing and never using him at 13 again.   
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Jun 2015, 04:23
#29
26 Jun 2015, 04:23#29
From Habana's only test at 13 against Ireland in 2006
" Then Habana snapped up a try for South Africa with a excellent score after the ball was swept out to the right."




DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
26 Jun 2015, 05:08
#30
26 Jun 2015, 05:08#30
Habana struggled in that test a bit and was switched back to wing by the second half. The transition to 13 is seen as easy because it's supposedly just one step inside. But it's the most difficult defensive position on the field. 
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Jun 2015, 05:46
#31
26 Jun 2015, 05:46#31
Umugger is probably the best example.
DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
26 Jun 2015, 06:44
#32
26 Jun 2015, 06:44#32
 Habanna played 9 at school, 13 for the Lions, where he became a Bok, before the Bools (Meyer) moved him to 11. The best 11 this generation.
Mike, I was jesting a bit. I'm against moving players out of position,  Deon Fourie moving from 2 to 6 was the last move I supported. Prior to that, it was Fransie from 12 to 15 in 2009. Having said that, I still think Habana can do a job at 13 in an emergency,  but then we sit with a broken  back tree.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Jun 2015, 10:52
#33
26 Jun 2015, 10:52#33

That is a pathetically conservative side, the kind of side useless Meyer would select.


Frans has not done nearly enough to merit selection.......the likes of Serfontein, Vorster, Odendaal and Frans Venter have been far, far better.


du Preez at 9, give me a break.....he has been about as effective as Jean has been at 12......deadwood. Faf de Klerk is the form 9 and has real clout.


Habana is another has been.......Jessie Kriel is far, far more threatening these days, as are the likes of Sithole, Combrink and v/Wyk


Imagine selecting the utterly useless Matfield at lock when you have the likes of PSDT, Willemse, Jacques du Plessis, Ruan Botha and Lood to choose from. Flip is at best solid these days, not close to these youngsters. The selection of Matfield is an insult.


Louw is at best a solid player, like Schalk he was and never has been a good 6......Coetzee, Kolisi, Brussouw and Kriel are all far, far better.


I could live with Schalk at 7, but Jacques du Plessis or PSDT would be far better and more physically imposing.


Here is a real Bok side, not a conservatively crap one that would not make it past the WC quarters.


15. Willie 14. Jessie Kriel 13. de Allende 12. Serfontein 11. Senatla 10. Pollard 9. de Klerk 1. Kitshoff 2. Bismark 3. Malherbe 4. Willemse 5. Etzebeth 6. Coetzee 7. Jacques du Plessis 8. Vermeulen


16. Strauss 17. Coenie 18. Marcel v/d Merwe 19. PSDT 20. Kolisi 21. Hougaard 22. Jantjies 23. Vorster

MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Jun 2015, 15:33
#34
26 Jun 2015, 15:33#34
The likes of Serfontein have been far better? Hehe. What pray has Step done apart from participating in the most toothless centre pairing in the S15.
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
26 Jun 2015, 15:36
#35
26 Jun 2015, 15:36#35
 "The likes of Serfontein have been far better? Hehe. What pray has Step done apart from participating in the most toothless centre pairing in the S15"... two years running
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Jun 2015, 16:11
#36
26 Jun 2015, 16:11#36
 Mozart
I am not a Serfontein supporter - but has to be fair.   Over the last two Super 15 seasons Serfontein was twice the center your favourite Fransie was and that is a fact of life.       
BL
Blikkies
Pro1,526 posts
BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
27 Jun 2015, 14:15
#37
27 Jun 2015, 14:15#37

I understand Adi Jacobs scored a hatrick a week or 2 ago thereby sending a message to Meyer that he is still around. 


BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Jun 2015, 14:22
#38
27 Jun 2015, 14:22#38
When will the bok squad be announced. What squa d was shown on TV? 
JW
Just_win
Captain18,570 posts
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
27 Jun 2015, 21:40
#39
27 Jun 2015, 21:40#39
 Announced team
— END OF THREAD —

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