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FORUM / RUGBY /  A huge yawn greets the JJ departure

A huge yawn greets the JJ departure

Started by Mozart53 REPLIES699 VIEWS· 08 Nov 2013, 04:40
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BU
BuzzClub Pro175 posts
08 Nov 2013, 19:04
#41
08 Nov 2013, 19:04#41

Mike,

 

last season (2012 ) it was JP  who held the Sharks backline together, his leadership was instrumental in creating some form of positive vibe within the team.

 

 

XT
XtramickClub Pro103 posts
08 Nov 2013, 19:30
#43
08 Nov 2013, 19:30#43
What have attacking players besides the all blacks done in terms of tries against the top nations. Not much! These games tend to be tight except for the occasional all black blow out. Diminshing Jaque's strike rate based on this argument doesnt seem to be comparatively smart
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Nov 2013, 21:10
#44
08 Nov 2013, 21:10#44

 Mozart

 

Thanks for the stats - I think the mere fat that only 1 player made the 50% stats show that they are not top try scorers.  Based on the stats provided the percentage for the following players are as follows:-

 

JP Pietersen   -   48    -    15   =   31,25%  

 

Fourie Du Preez   51   -    15   =   29,41%

 

Morne Steyn        51   -     8    =   15,69%

 

The above figures are not really awe-inspiring and if you compare those with the backline players of New Zealand aand Australia playing in the same [positions it looks even less awe-inspring,

 

I am still convinced that from an attacking perspective there are serious deficiencies in the Springbok team.

XT
XtramickClub Pro103 posts
08 Nov 2013, 22:56
#45
08 Nov 2013, 22:56#45
You are kidding that the Aussie stats look better right? Not in the comparative period over the last couple years 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Nov 2013, 23:51
#46
08 Nov 2013, 23:51#46

The present Aussie backline had very few games but have  a look at the stats of Players like Genia, Barnes, Ashley Cooper and Folau and you will find that they have higher percentages.  However, it is mainly the AB's we should worry about - not the rather poor Walla oies - whose forwards are their Achilles heel.

 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Nov 2013, 00:01
#48
09 Nov 2013, 00:01#48

I suppose those guys weren't attacking players either OOM, Mannetjies Roux is even lower down....you deserve a two egg ome lette.

 

 

 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Nov 2013, 02:48
#49
09 Nov 2013, 02:48#49
Bullshit Mike, JJ has stuff all to prove, he had a good year at centre for the Boks, culminating in a great attacking performance against the AB's setting the standard.

As for this crap about his defence, well that is blown out the water with his defensive stats against the AB's.......in two tests he made 12 tackles, missing 1.......that is not the stats of a player with defensive issues.

One miss on Barrett has everyone jumping of the wagon about JJ's defence when in reality the circumstances of that miss are completely ignored, just like his miss on Bosch.

Its a disgrace that Meyer has dropped JJ, Willie and not promoted Coenie..........the man has the player management skills of a duck
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Nov 2013, 03:10
#50
09 Nov 2013, 03:10#50

Mozart

 

Apples with apples please - we are talking here of wings, flyhafs and scrummies.   You went back for more than half a century to get to John Gainsford to try and find a center that would make Fourie's figures look good.   Those days there were tours - strength playing strength - no minnow involved like nowadays - so the figure are not really compatible - so the figures are not really comparable.   When dealing with this type of comparison the only viable equation is how many tests have a player played against specific countries and compare those figures.   Not overall figures.   Engelbrecht and Gainsford never played againstcountries like Argentina and Italy and definitely not against Fiji, Tonga, Samoa, Japan and Outer Mongolia  like the modern playes do.

 

Most of Fourie's  tries came from the minnow teams - you said so yourself - so there is no real comparisons like you are trying to make.   Tours were up to three months away from home with tests being interspersed with local teams - as you should know.   Please lets accept we should stick with those kind of comparisons with the professional era - not the amateur era.  

 

However, that kind of comparisons are odious - because there role of backline playrs are more complex than only scoring of tries - it entails how effective the backline as a whole operates and that is where the 2010 and 2011 backline came short.  The backline was not effective as a unit and the outcome was the dead backline syndrome.

 

The symptoms were the same as it was in 1997 - when Carel du Plessis pointed out that the Springbok backline did  not function properly and he intended to take steps to correct the imbalance.   He took the steps to correct the problem and the result was a winning streak of 16 matches - for which Mallett  got the credit - which in fact he did not deserve.   There were similar signs to correct the problem, but those have now been reversed and we are back to the 2010-11 situation.    If may not worry you - but it does worry me.       

 

           

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Nov 2013, 04:03
#51
09 Nov 2013, 04:03#51
 Actually I didn't have to go back half a century...just skip a few lines down in the tries per test chart. If you know how to search OOM you could avoid all the words. As for the old Boks never playing minnows....in those days teams like Scotland were minnows. But I'll be kind and stop dumping egg on you.
ST
Sun-TzuClub Pro713 posts
09 Nov 2013, 15:28
#52
09 Nov 2013, 15:28#52
 Mike, why beat your head against the wall when Big-Wig has kindly opened the door to your immediate left? Its bad form. I will however shed even more light on the subject. Not once, but twice did Fourie prevent a Bok loss to Scotland, he turned the entire Lions series on its head with that try in the second test, he scored two crucial tries in 2009 against New Zealand and the away test to Australia. His record speaks for itself, he turns up when we desperately need someone to produce something special. He is the second top try scorer against Australia and New Zealand, second only to Habana after last season! We won't see another player like that for quite some time in the 13 jersey that I can say for certain. JJ hasn't even come close. He is an imposter.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Nov 2013, 15:39
#53
09 Nov 2013, 15:39#53
Bullshit, JJ is the best 13 prospect we have had since Gerber, he proved that in that last test against the Kiwi's, his beating of Savea and putting Willie into space was sublime.
Its was the in out and beating his man on the outside that did it........its easy to beat a man with an inside step, the art of class is beating your man on the outside as JJ did.

He had a steady build up all year and then showed his true clout in that last test......beating 4 defenders and making one clean break is all we can ask for in a test 13, add that to 12 tackles made and 1 missed in two tests against the Kiwi's.

And to think that some clowns question this guys attributes as a 13......its madness, more so that our stupid coach rewards that performance with a bench spot in his next test........pathetic player management of the highest order.
ST
Sun-TzuClub Pro713 posts
09 Nov 2013, 15:44
#54
09 Nov 2013, 15:44#54
I would expect a real talent to have been more prolofic and without the fatal defensive lapses or invisibility for most of the game. JJ falls short of Joubert, Fleck, Fourie, de Jongh, heel, even Frans! More overstated opinions unfounded. You need to try better then that Saffex, take a few steps back and take in the big picture; it will breath some credibility to your bleatings.
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