A team of Vetsak's "bests"

Kirchner RhuleJJStepfonteinMvovoJantjiesReinachGreyling ChiliMarcelStephanieQuincePuke WatsonCJ StampkarPierre Suspies

In many cases there were multiple bests. I could have chosen....Kriel at 13, Kolisi at 6 or Goosen at 10. But I stuck with the players Vetsak was and in many cases still is passionate about. 
In other cases he has dubbed these players best over given time periods. JJ since readmission. Jantjies in last year's S15. Or Step as better than JdV.

The common denominator? Not one of these players he is passionate about has helped the Boks win even one test. That's a record we won't see again in our lifetimes!

 Actually I stand corrected.....Step did make a contribution to the Boks beating the Poms at Twickenham with an interception. The rest....nada.

 Mozart
To be quite frank - some of the players listed are based entirely on your prejudice and not on their performance. 
While I agree with the majority of the players - there are also four players who can never do anything good in your distorted viewpoints, because they were threats to your favourites
The good enough players include Serfontein, Reinach, Coetzee and Du Toit.   These four players were definitely a vast improvement on the reputation players you supported through thick and thin and who did massive damage to the Springbok team over the last two years.    The other players may have been punted by Dave years ago - but they have proven themselves too poor to compete and there an  indication  that he has not dropped them from his own list of favourites,   

 Dave was a Werner Kruger fan too...and he punted Eben big time...but even a broken clock is right twice a day!

 Sure Mike those four are marginal in their tests so far, not total disasters. But none of them have lived up to their billing....closest to not being a disappointment is Coetzee. He was never billed as a world beater and he has been workmanlike, if not up to the top international flanks.

The thing that's such a hoot is the hype, the perseverance in the absence of performance and finally the silence....and if challenged the game blame where it's always the coach's fault. Thats where JJ is now an all time great but for HM.
And in the case of Werner Kruger, the attempted denial that he was ever really a fan.....I wouldn't bet on the Springboks doesn't mean I thought they would lose......bwaaaaaahahaha.

 At least Saf has enough enthusiasm for SA rugby to make up for all the doom prophets combined. 

 Mozart 
Just a question - were Alberts and Burger in 2015 top international flanks and if you say they were please give reasons for it.  

 Ja...except he always bets against the Springbok team. Vetsak has great enthusiasm for his own biases.

 So you say one of the main contributors to the Japanese and semi loss was of international standard and Fatso who played 3 full games in which he failed in all 3  and 15 minutes off the bench was a top international loosie.   Give me a break.    

 Maaik, Scalla was top class, but just like DdA, Duane and a few others, they were forced into a patern of play that wasn't. ..it was a close gamble that nearly came off against NZ, but it didn't do much for the perception of form of the players.

 A fit Alberts is among the top three tough yards runners in the game....he is also  capable of delivering huge ball dislodging hits on defence. He was probably our best loosie in 2013. He was certainly not at his best in the WC....whether that was fitness, match fitness or just the effects of time, who knows. I would have taken the risk as well. The problem is when he didn't front, we had too many passengers in the Bok squad.

Coffin dodger is that your best shot....what a fucking YAWN
Draad you dumb fuck...I rated Werner Kruger when he first burst on the scene but happily conceded I got him wrong.
Now be a sport and store that in your memory bank so as not to be as stupid as Moffie who keeps bringing the likes of Kruger up.
Fuck me even Greyling gets the call....a player I said very little about....shows how fucking dense the old fart is.

 Oh shame Vetsak has managed to get onto the internet, his 9.00 pm to 12.00pm time slot has arrived so we will get a barrage of bull dust, like this pathetic denial.

Actually Moz it's more that your prejudicial crap is starting to bore the crap out of me and I find myself far less drawn to your crap along with the rest of the usual clowns on here.
I have always enjoyed Rooi s takes, Plum is a good new addition as is APD. We seem to have lost the good Kiwi's like Sas....other than that it's the same old Dave is fat, Moffie is old......but more than anything it's your pathetic anti SA players that bores the shit out of me.
SA rugby message boards were my salvation given I had left Home....it was a place to talk SA rugby....but it's no longer that...the board lacks insightful takes, is filled with prejudicial shit and consumed by spats. I guess the fact that a number of like minded SA rugby people have joined my circle has added to me frequenting this place more...I'm no saint but I also find that of late I have no real desire to return....for we all know it's going to be about how crap CJ, Serf, Kriel, JJ, de Allende, Lambie, Goosen, Jantjies, Hougaard, Faf, Reinach, Coenie, Marcel, Malherbe, PSDT, Lood, du Plessis, Kolisi, Labs, Coetzee, Arno and co are or how great Meyer, Jean, de Jongh, Morne, Vic and Schalk are.
There is never any honesty on here, PSDT has a great game and we are told he is kak, Schalk has a kak game and we are told he was great....is there really any point in debating against such shit? Am I ever going to hear you say Serf was great today or de Jongh was crap? It's just the same old shit....I meant it when I said I would not really care if I was banned from this site....I'm getting really bored of it all....but we are who we are and nothing will change....what is needed is some new blood....we are the Matfield s of this site.
My guess is that our behaviour is hardly the substance of drawing new blood in.

 Moz, you forget to add Louis Ludick, Murray and the mother of all snails...forget his name, pretty blonde headed centre who played for the Bulls and part time Bok....doesn't matter, they were termed "Class Acts" but proven useless. And hey, there's probably another bucketful of duds that I can't be bothered listing....too bloody hard to keep up with the endless list of no hopers.

 Dave
The reason for the membership of forums is to discuss rugby issues from a different perspective - if everybody agrees about the merits of players the forum would not be worth anything - so we have a case where disagreement is the norm for discussing players.  
There are some things I do not like myself and the most important of those is the constant negativity of people about certain players - a negativity based on prejudice and the fact that those players are criticized because of the fact that they have been threats to favourites of respective members.   
The criticism is often enough based on single incidents that happened in a certain match and sometimes seriously distorted.   That other circumstances were present during that incident counts for nothing and the criticism is repeated over and over again as if it is career-defining.   
The other issue is a refusal by members to be objective on issues and to recognize that time is a major factor in player performances.   A great player in 2007 is not necessarily a great player in 2015/16.   This addiction to players of the past is in fact a problem that has haunted SA rugby for years.   A few players realize when it is time to bow out - others refuse to do so and are major negatives in the Springbok team - doing massive damage to their own image,
I think another problem is that members try and find fault with others when they see players coming through the ranks and where they are identified as potential future Springboks.   Lets face facts some of those players may not make the grade - while others do.  When I said I was impressed by some players in the junior ranks it does not mean that I will remain so later on because the said players did not develop further during their careers.   The careers of some players are punctured by frequent injuries.   Some are just early matured and did not develop further.   However according to some members what anybody said in the past is gospel does not imply that a change of mind is possible based on lack of development or failure by players.
Instead of considering the present and future situation the constant negatiivity about what is going to happen in future is actually sickening.  We know that SARU stinks to high heaven - that we may end up with another dud coach - that race-based selection is a negative that will destroy the Springboks as a team.   All these negatives are being ignored and  players will get the blame for what is going to be a difficult year ahead.
        

Well Dave I guess the Bok team this year will be something like 
WillieMvovoKrielAllendeSenatlaLambieReinachNyakaneStraussMalherbeEtzebethLompKrielCoetzeeVermeulen
Let's see if they get within 2 points of the ABs

Lots of whining. But for the record no two posters have been more negative about the Boks chances than the two of you....Mike and Dave. Not even close.

And why is that? Because you have been fair minded about older players and the coach? Nope because you were so anti HM and his old guard you couldn't even bring yourselves to pick the Boks to make the knockouts.
So don't preach about prejudice....the two of you own prejudice.

 Mozart
Alberts was never ever our best loosie in any year.  I ask about his performance in 2015 and you answered yes - he was international quality in that year while in fact he hardlyn played in 2015 and never had a single acceptable game.  
I can remember one ball carry when Alberts got the ball as a result of a poor line-out throw-in where Alberts carried the ball for about 10 meters and was then tackled by the flyhalf (test against France).   For the rest his carries was all less than 2 meters and of very poor quality.  You refer to some players as LOMP - but nobody in rugby could ever be more LOMP than Alberts were.   His seriously poor performance in the Ellis Park test in 2014 was one of the main reasons why we lost that test.   
His "ball-dislodging hits"  were a rarity - virtually none of his tackles were effective ever and he never was capable to effect ball protection and recovery because he got to breakdown points way too late to be effective.  Like Matfield even if he got to such points he would loaf around behind mauls to get a balls passed to him to make spectacular carries - or so he believes - since he was too easily brought down before he could make any real distance in carries. 
I was a bit harsh on Burger - at least he is a loosie - something Alberts never was,  Draad is right when he said that the failure of Burger last year was due to the game plan Meyer decided on for the WC.  Burger is not a player to be used as a ball carrier in traffic - fact is it was a waste of a good player by Meyer and an abject failure in the end.  The upshot was that due to predictability this ploy became totally ineffective and left an extremely negative image of the player himself resulting in ball possession losses as well.  Bu rger was the best link loose forward we had  for decades - but he was also going down in performances and what he did last year was not acceptable at all.        

 I am more than happy to voice the negative when we have a useless coach who selects the wrong players...evidenced in our results under useless Meyer.
Mike try catch a fucking wake up. Trust you to miss the point. I never advocated agreement by all what I can't stomach anymore because it's boring is the dishonesty in player assessments. It's too predictable...in effect regardless of how well PSDT plays Moz will disagree.....same applies to you and say Frans....I'm guilty to....for we are no longer about the merits of a player but all about getting one over eachother...losing the very essence of this board.
For the record Moz a Bok side of:
15. Willie 14. v/Wyk/Ulengo 13. Kriel 12. de Allende 11. Senatla/Kolbe 10. Pollard 9. Faf/ Hougaard 1. Kitshoff 2. Bismark 3. Malherbe/Marcel 4. Etzebeth 5. Lood/PSDT 6. Kriel 7. du Plessis/Coetzee 8. Vermeulen/Arno Botha is better than any side the AB's could field today...especially considering all the stalwarts they have lost to Europe 

 Mozart
There is a difference between prejudice and reality.  Meyer picked a squad that was totally inadequate with players based on his norm - "I know what they are capable of".   Most of those players did not have a decent game of rugby for the previous 14 months and that was the reason why he was criticized.  The record of the Springboks were atrocious in the year leading up to the WC and his senior players were in the main responsible for that.
My objections were based on the performance issue and the record of the players Meyer picked for the squad.  Players like Alberts, Matfield, Jannie du Plessis, De Villiers, and Morne Steyn should not have been anywhere near the squad.   Alberts never had a decent game for 14 months, there were serious reservations about De Villiers' recovery from his horror injury, Matfield and Jannie were poor in tests and Super 15 games they played in and the Stade Francais bench player was not even the starting flyhalf for his club team.  I have had reservations about Du Preez because of serious lack of game time for 14 months before the WC.  What Kirchner was doing in the squad only Meyer would know.   Those were all reasonable, justified and motivated doubts - not prejudice.
Meyer was showing serious deficiencies and his game plan was a joke.  The Japan loss was a disaster that should have been avoided - but was inevitable because of the useless squad selection.  Meyer changed the team - and the incoming players was played to death because of the squad inadequacy.  The game plan was also a serious problem and that was recognized by all commentators - not only Dave and me.  
Let me remind you that your prejudice is clear - it shines through on attacks on players who were awarded for their performances - like Player of the Year (De Jager), Player of Super Rugby (De Allende), etc.  That is prejudice because it represents unjustified hatred of some players because they were better than the players you supported.   That is prejudice - not level-headed and justifiable criticism of Meyer and some of his experienced players - again not all, but the majority.      

"15. Willie 14. v/Wyk/Ulengo 13. Kriel 12. de Allende 11. Senatla/Kolbe 10. Pollard 9. Faf/ Hougaard 1. Kitshoff 2. Bismark 3. Malherbe/Marcel 4. Etzebeth 5. Lood/PSDT 6. Kriel 7. du Plessis/Coetzee 8. Vermeulen/Arno Botha is better than any side the AB's could field today...especially considering all the stalwarts they have lost to Europe" 
It is BS like this that make the kiwis on this board take the mickey out of all Saffas on this board. If I was a kiwi I would have a field day at taking the piss at you but, sadly, I am not. The worry is that there might be more people who think along those lines. 

 Ceradyne
The list of players of Dave is at best controversial - but that is to be expected.   The better way is not to make personal attacks on Dave - but to wait and see how players perform in Super 18.  Only one round took place - and that showed some things - but those are not conclusive.  
There are players on Dave's list that has shown nothing yet this past year and there are players I would have nowhere near the Springbok team because of deficient performances.  Take for instance Arno Botha - he looked very promising three years ago - had a number of injuries and since his return to rugby he has been very average on provincial level.  Jacques du Plessis is another favourite of his - but he really is a lock and he is a very average loosie.  Those are just two examples - there are others as well.     

Well said Saff! Lets get back to debating the rugby situation as it is in front of us. The old arguments are just that, old! Nobody is saying anything new, and nobody is going to either. Lets leave the boring old hashed up debates in the past...where they belong. Seriously, there is a bunch of new shart for us to fight about! 
Mike, there was a time when Alberts was an unstoppable force with ball in hand. You need to give credit where due. Yes he was in poor form recently, and yes he was rushed back into the side after injury, but in and around 2013 he was very effective. You are accusing Moz (and Denny and Cerra) of certain prejudices, but you are guilty of the same crime!  

 "The better way is not to make personal attacks on Dave - but to wait and see how players perform in Super 18. "
The board saint has spoken....................
BTW. WTF is the Super 18. There is no such competition.

Ceradyne
Super rugby is played by 18 teams this year.  I know that you are living in the past and clueless about the present - but at least you should be aware of that change.  Funny guy - you really are a joke - but in your case I think ignorance is bliss .   

 Jou arme f@ken sot. Jy is die doos wat in die verlede leef. They have decided to drop dropped the Super this, that and the other to avoid reaching the Super 397 in the near future. The name of the competition is now Super Rugby.

2016 SUPER RUGBY

Super Rugby (rendered in the current competition logo as "SupeRugby") is the pre-eminent professional men's rugby union football competition in the Southern Hemisphere and Japan. Building off various Southern Hemisphere competitions dating back to the South Pacific Championship in 1986, with teams from a number of southern nations, Super Rugby officially started with the  1996 seasonwith 12 teams from Australia, New Zealand and South Africa. The competition was known as Super 12 through to the end of the 2005 season; the name was changed to Super 14 with the addition of two teams for the 2006 season; with expansion to 15 teams in the three countries for the 2011 season, the competition was rebranded as Super Rugby (no number included). By 2006, matches were being broadcast in 41 countries.[1]

Try to keep up with the times, p@epol.

 Dofdoos
Whatever they decided is not apparent to members of the public - you stinking idiot. Why are you so bloody useless and nitpicking - when the issue here relates to rugby and Mozart's attack on Dave.  Your comments are the usua l droppings of sh!t you make on this site - dofdoos again.  

 Mmm....... I have clearly struck a nerve.............. again. 
It would have been much easier to say: "Oops. Sorry. I see where I made the mistake after implying that you are ignorant, living in the past and is clueless about the present". 

 S18 PREVIEW: ROUND TWO, PART ONE
Headline in Rugby365 article - that says it all dofdoos.

Rugby365 is as thick as you then. Let's try this  again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Rugby
Super Rugby (rendered in the current competition logo as "SupeRugby") is the pre-eminent professional men's rugby union football competition in the Southern Hemisphere and Japan.

....and
The competition was known as Super 12 through to the end of the 2005 season; the name was changed to Super 14 with the addition of two teams for the 2006 season; with expansion to 15 teams in the three countries for the 2011 season, the competition was rebranded as Super Rugby (no number included).
 Now, go to the SANZAAR website and  see what it is  called on there. Click HERE and you will be navigated to the SANZAAR website.
This was the official S14 logo:


This was the official S15 logo:



This is the new Super Rugby logo (note the single capital R linking the Super and Rugby into one word in the logo):


Now p1ss off.

 You went beserk - so you piss off idiot.  

Lol......
You will always..... always have this shyte on any forum.
The fact that you have a pr!ck like Rooi Rooi on here is already an indication of how low you need to go to get some subscribers on here....LMAO
I mean really now..... the most hated poster I have ever known......
Then we have CC..... a complete nutter, totally insecure, proper braggart.... but in essence ....... just a real plank..... but, someone loves him.... maybe his dogs.
Then you get Beeno, the Trump loving, creationist bashing, muslim slaying CA..... I mean what a mix you get with him....
And Dave.... poor Davey...... Always the last one to feel the rain amongst most posters he meets....... Always striving to prove he is still a lawyer, and a good one at that, but quoting Google when he talks law.  Never admitting who he is despite a blatant up to date picture of him being posted, showing his stout paunch and long grey hair...... Who was it again..... Jamie....LMAO
As for the rest on here, they seem pretty damn cool and normal, so, having said that, I reckon this board is in good hands...... provided the one's not spoken of "Look Up"......... behave themselves and keep their toe behind that line
"Ir en buen estado de salud y la prosperidad"  



  

 Welcome DA...great to have you n deck again. Just to bring you up to speed...have you seen the post where not only does Admit 1 give Rooi Rooi a kick in the guts but whacko kicks him in the nuts as well? It is so funny to see Rooi Rooi run out of words and crawl into a hole.

Hi Denny
What thread are these posts in that you mentioned above
I really must have a peep into this

 You'll find it here...also note how Roooi Rooi struggles with but but umm I said that because umm erm umm and bang another whack and whooska he jus t slinks away Hahahaha

Racial Remarks on the board

And you might wonder afterwards why our most tolerant and liberal Mod decided to put his foot down....but that's another story.

I totally understand Denny
I myself have forced Rooi Rooi to crawl away slowly and find the derelict hole he crawled out from.....
It really is very easy.... you just stump him with the truth..... his "truths" always stump him because he can't keep up with the countless lies he has put forth over the years 

 "My point is that a merit Bok side with a merit coach would beat the best the AB's currently have to offer, especially considering the loss of Carter, Nonu and Smith for a start"
I know that you would give your front tee th if that was true but the truth is that we simply do not, at the moment, have the players to do that. Not even if you chuck quotas, transformation or whatever you would like to call it, out the window. We also do not have the coach/es to do that.
The rot in our rugby has been setting in over some time now and  it is much wider than you think. I have said, some time  ago, that even at schools level our rugby is stuffed and  you and your gabba, ou Maaikie, crapped yourselves. Read this: School sport: It’s just not cricket. I know that the heading refers to cricket but do your a favour and read the entire article. It deals with a lot of rugby as well.
Apart from schools rugby the rest is a balls-up as well. All our Super Rugby teams have been in a steady decline. Our best Super Rugby side did not even deserve to be in the play-offs in 2015. This new Super Rugby crap is probably going to get us into the play-offs again and, just like in previous years, it is going to be undeservedly. Our once prestigious and respected domestic competition, the Currie Cup, is a watered down second rate wishy washy balls-up.
Nee boet, our rugby, at the current rate, will not be fixed any time soon. Not with our current crop of players or coaches.