All Black starters average 29.35 years old....

....and the bench averaged 28.67 years. For an overall team average of 29.1.....I think the oldest WC winning team.
But just to put things in perspective the  6 starting ABs who have reached 30.... Conrad Smith, Nonu, Carter,McCaw, Reid and Kaino .....got an average of an 8 rating from 365. With the highest two team ratings given to Richie McCaw at 34.8 years and Dan Carter at 33.6 years.

In all a huge vindication of experience, which  wins WCs and a reminder to foolish South African fans that all the calls for the young guns were silly. The ABs never had one starter under 24 and 8 players over 28. Experience wins WCs, not bright shiny faced youth.

 There are other factors besides age Mozart, as you know very well. Besides, haven't we heard this argument from you before?

 You have....this is just incontrovertible proof that I'm right.

The players are available for different eras are the biggest factor. 
Although it does show that the best players of their generation can still win even when some are past their best. 
Habana, FDP and even Matfield past their best are still better than younger replacements. 

 Etzebeth and Matfield are a much more synergistic pairing than Etzebeth and Lomp. Matfield is still ten times the player Lomp will ever be.
The prospect of a competition between the fragile Stephanie and lethargic Lomp for the 5 jersey is very depressing.

 Yes but the difference with their older players is that they are still able to play the game at an international level and be competitive.

Not like the old fart from RSA.

 Yes but the difference with their older players is that they are still able to play the game at an international level and be competitive.

Not like the old fart from RSA.

Oh I see...NZ players age better, that's a new one.  

 Mozart
You have never ever been right. There is one key where you miss the pot completely and that is where the issue of performance comes in.  Your argument ever was that age and experience/reputation is the key and that performance is of no real value in team selection terms.
In the case of New Zealand the situation is that Hansen never lost sight of performance as the main requirement.  Where performance was not in evidence he would not select players,  
When people keep saying age is not an issue but performance is you said they were  wrong.           

Ou Tokkie just enjoy the win by the NZ "geriatrics" as you would call them....and learn from the experience. No amount of BS is going to reduce the amount of egg flowing your way.

 There was no egg - if there is it applies to your BS arguments   How many times have I written that age on its own is not important at all - performance is.  I can remember stating that in the case of the AB's their older players are meeting performance requirements - same as all their other players,   The duds you always supported to be selected for the Springboks have not met any performance requirements at all - with you age and reputation was the only requirements for team selection.     .
The difference is that I am not besotted with age like you are - I am interested in performance and not age as the real requirement for selection.
 

 Skudder and Nonu  illustrated the old and the new integrated into a winning combination.Many said ,a few on here too mind you that the ABs were 'too old ,too slow and too tired to win a RWC ' But all those leaving the ABs would have no problems walking into any other side .McCaw played like he was on debut all those years ago against Scotland ,Nonu left younger 'fitter,faster' men in his wake and Conrad Smith took the ball off the wally player like taking candy from a pudgy fisted baby .Heck even Kevvy looked the goods with a faultless bench display that added to the ABs .And then theres Dan Carter who was written off by so many as being past his use by date .MOM in a RWC final is a pretty big fark you statement eh wot ? 19 points 1 miss at goal 12 tackles the most from any AB in the match a 45m drop goal and a long range penalty .Superb and alongside the others retiring makes you wonder if maybe another season off the bench at least to bed in the young uns?Keiren Reid actually went under the radar while others focussed on a couple of inconsequential fumbles in pool play .Mozart has a point about experience being vital and its not because they were older that the ABs did so well but despite it .Age didnt seem to figure at all as regards fitness and experience more than made up for any loss of pace plus the mere fact of having dealt with all these pressure situations and overcoming them can only come with age and the experience that comes with it .Players dont live in a bubble and one wonders what affect constant criticism of older players must have on them ,especially from your own people .

 Actually what these chumps don't get is players like McCaw, Carter and Victor have another gear. It's not that they dont give a 100% every game, but they have a 110% gear for the big occasions. They are stepping up when so many of the young guns are finding their ceilings....Lomp being a classical example. A lion in the pool games....a lamb in the knockouts.

The guys you can count on are the guys who get better when the stakes go up.

 Victor had another gear - you stupid old bum?  The only gear he had was a reverse gear.  His performance was BS the past year and you were too stupid or too prejudiced to see it.  The 10% efficiency  Matfield gave in the big occassion - the WC semi - was about as capable as he was to give.
How dare you mention that old jester's name in the same sentence as Carter and McCaw - an insult to the latter two players.         

 
Exactly ... and it's that gear that the elderly Goats do not have.

The one loses to Japan and the other becomes world champions ... back to back champions!!!

See the difference???

 Yep I do see the difference....2 points.

 Moz, speaking under correction, Mealeano was their oldest player...not a starter though. At 36, still 2 years Victoria's junior. It's not about the average age, but about the spread from which the average is derived. Our ballance between old and young was askew. Too many too old and too youngs and not enough in the "just right" prime spots. Victor was the outlier that twisted the average when our average age was actually too low in the bottem end and too high at topend, leaving the crucial middle ground bare.

Yep averages can be misleading, the tails of the distribution are interesting. Said another way, we were close to the AB average  but had a bigger variance. Honestly Pollard and Kriel had no chance of making the ABs. They bring these players along slowly....so Rettallik at 24 is their youngest player.
The Mike/Dave view has no place in NZ rugby....it's a fantasy.

 The Mozart view has no place in NZ rugby - for that matter in any rugby.   In rugby performance is the key - and irrespective of how many times that is emphasized by me - Mozart stick with his reputation and age approach with zero reference to performance.  
We - both Dave and myself has emphasized the difference repeatedly.  We pointed out the fact that there is a difference between New Zealand and SA - since in New Zealand the players are selected on the basis of performance with no regard to age, in South Africa the emphasis is on reputation with no regard to performance.   Mozart has added the age issue as being the norm for performance - we have been bombarded with any older sportsman ever making it good in some or other code of sport.  
He has in the case of SA rugby based his player evaluation on misrepresentations to the point of outright lies and has never ever given credit to younger players he dislikes because they are in competition with his older favourites - while trying to find excuses for poor performance by his favourite older players.
                 

 The Mozart view has no place in NZ rugby - for that matter in any rugby.   In rugby performance is the key - and irrespective of how many times that is emphasized by me - Mozart stick with his reputation and age approach with zero reference to performance.  
We - both Dave and myself has emphasized the difference repeatedly.  We pointed out the fact that there is a difference between New Zealand and SA - since in New Zealand the players are selected on the basis of performance with no regard to age, in South Africa the emphasis is on reputation with no regard to performance.   Mozart has added the age issue as being the norm for performance - we have been bombarded with any older sportsman ever making it good in some or other code of sport.  
He has in the case of SA rugby based his player evaluation on misrepresentations to the point of outright lies and has never ever given credit to younger players he dislikes because they are in competition with his older favourites - while trying to find excuses for poor performance by his favourite older players.
                 

 The Mozart view has no place in NZ rugby - for that matter in any rugby.   In rugby performance is the key - and irrespective of how many times that is emphasized by me - Mozart stick with his reputation and age approach with zero reference to performance.  
We - both Dave and myself has emphasized the difference repeatedly.  We pointed out the fact that there is a difference between New Zealand and SA - since in New Zealand the players are selected on the basis of performance with no regard to age, in South Africa the emphasis is on reputation with no regard to performance.   Mozart has added the age issue as being the norm for performance - we have been bombarded with any older sportsman ever making it good in some or other code of sport.  
He has in the case of SA rugby based his player evaluation on misrepresentations to the point of outright lies and has never ever given credit to younger players he dislikes because they are in competition with his older favourites - while trying to find excuses for poor performance by his favourite older players.
                 

Nonsense NZ have a team. A player like Conrad Smith remains in the team even if there are more dynamic options, because Hansen like how the whole unit functions....so Fekitoa has to wait....even SBW has to wait. This has been true for years, Mils kept Dagg out the team when he looked like the most dangerous 15 in rugby.

Thus the ABs ended almost 30 year old on average and won the RWC.

The whole argument is skipped over - namely that the AB's select players on performance not anything else.  Players have to wait when the incumbent still perform - but they get regular exposure to test rugby and players like Fekitoa has already had 13 test caps during his first year (2014) on international level.   Hardly has to wait i would call that.   
The  issue remain - Smith is still a very good center - but he is leaving the scene now  and so is Conrad Smith.   What New Zealand did was to build uo a squad over the past few years to replace their players who is set to depart.  
Meyer did nothing of the kind.  When De Villiers was injured and Fourie could not continue - there was a void at center and we entered the WC with Kriel and De Allende - each with only three test caps in their respective positions.   Instead of squad building Meyer ran back to reputation players and did not change them when they failed.        
Ultimately there was not a single reputation player that did not fail in the tests over the last year - but also in the WC.  The much hyped Du Preez was a failure in the semis whether you like it or not.
And in the end the idiocy of age was repeated by Mozart.  They did not win the WC because the average age of the players were near to 30 years old - they won the WC because the players perform well enough to win.   
 

 Dave 
For Mozart performance is a meaningless concept - when the older players under-performed - if his reputation buggers up he invent all kind of excuses or deliberate misinterpretation to hide the under-performance or is not averse to lying about instances.   
The other method used is to deliberately attack other younger players even if they were not at fault about anything,  By doing that he tries to steer away from discussion of the poor play of the older players.  
When Jannie flopped on Saturday "he could not remember anything adverse about his scrumming and he screamed blue murder because Malherbe;s opposing prop in the AB's team was so weak.   
However, in the end there was not a single player he supported that did not fail in the RWC - even the over-hyped Du Preez was a failure in the semi.   So who made the grade - definitely not -
*   Du Preez*   Bryan Habana*   De Villiers*   Morne Steyn;*   Willem Alberts*   Victor Matfield*   Jaqnnie du Plessis*   Zane Kirchner*   Schalk Brits*   Schalk Burger
There is ample reason for the listing of the above players as under-performers - so what have we got here - a member who constantly rave about the age of players and believe age and reputation is what is required without any regard to performance.  What a bloody fool!!!!!!!!!!!!  
         

Our older players were crap bar Habana and Schalk.....so much was made of du Preez but lets be honest what exactly did he bloody do bar make a pass and kick a ball?
Kirchner, Mvovo, Morne, Brits and Alberts hardly played so what was the point of having them on board, when we have far better youngsters who would have gained from the experience.
Jean was utterly useless until he departed, he should never have been there in the first place, has not done anything of note for 2 years.
Pienaar was pathetic, man he irritated me during that 3rd place play-off game.....he has no balls.....the number of times he failed to get stuck in and clear the ball was ridiculous.....he looks scared to get his hands dirty.
Jannie was at best solid, but why have him there when you have far better youngsters at home as Malherbe proved.
The less said about useless Matfield the better.....all he achieved was lose us the semi - so much for bloody experience.
Louw had some good moments, is he the best 6 in SA.....not even close.

Etzebeth and Vic a better combo than Etzebeth and Lood........bwhaaahaaaaaahaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaa
Classic

Somebody ask for your opinion Dave? Poor toss you still don't get it....Lomp is great against the weak, lame and infirm. Put him against a top team and his pathetic bull charges become turnover city, his lineout calls become 4 against the throw to NZ, and his powder puff tackling becomes a roaring joke in the Kaino household.  

Well old boy the stats say otherwise....he was the best lock on the field against Scotland and Wales.....he was more productive than his opposite number Whitelock in the semi
All facts backed by stats.....so stop speaking utter shit
Matfield on the otherhand did sweet stuff all all WC.....Lood was a revelation compared to this useless old man who cost us the semi with his wonderful display of experience.
I'll say it again

Etzebeth and Vic a better combo than Etzebeth and Lood........bwhaaahaaaaaahaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaa

Classic

He was more productive than Whitelock? You are clueless Humungous.  

Saffex
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 14227RE: All Black starters average 29.35 years old....
November 02, 2015, 22:08:24

.....so much was made of du Preez but lets be honest what exactly did he bloody do bar make a pass and kick a ball? 

I thought the core function of a scrumhalf was to pass and kick.  The Vermuelen back and FDP try was pretty good as well. 

 OuDawie, the ABs won the lineout battle ............... you ombeskof dumb vok .

Yes check the stats you fucking idiot....or better still talk us through what Whitelock actually did in that test.....I have the game recorded.....so be my guest prove me wrong or shut the fuck up you ignorant old man.....who's best course of action is to make things up.
Lood was more productive than Whitelock....who did not gain a single metre all test......a big fat ZERO.....so what was his contribution then old fart huh?

Oh wow Blob so does that define a lock then you stupid prick? Let me guess.....line-out ball is only delivered to locks is it.....and the throwing in of the hooker plays no part either.
What do you ACTUALLY know about rugby.....your strength is lying

Wow Shark.....so you are happy with your test 9 just being able to kick and pass.....tell that to Aron Smith of the AB's.....the du Preez had stuff all to do with him and everything to do with Vermeulen's great back pass
My expectations of a test 9 are passing and asking questions of defences as primary roles....kicking is certainly secondary....unless you play for the Boks

 Give Whitelock some credit - there was one player he constantly out-jumped in tests and that player was Victor Matfield.   However, that is setting the bar very low for Whitelock.   

 Yep he did outfox Victor once ....something poor Stephanie was totally unable to do in the S15

What about the Ellis Park test last year - which ed to the final try of the  AB's in that test - lump brain?  

 Past history and a very short throw.

 Not a short throw - a diversion to get away from fact.  Past history, but it did happen and was not to be remembered because it involved Matfield?