Another award . . .

"So Pieter-Steph gets another award… this time from some French newspaper? Honestly, who gives a Fuck??"

You did. Enough to rant.

Draad, fair point — but asking “who gives a fuck” isn’t a rant, it’s a question about logic.

If Pieter-Steph truly deserved that award, then let’s see the evidence.

Specific games, key moments, something measurable. Because right now, it feels more like media habit than actual performance.

Players like Sacha, Esterhuizen, Nortje, Wiese, Wilco and Kolbe have had far bigger on-field impact this season.

And when people defend hype without facts, it just reinforces the double standard.

It's not hype, it's perception and it's the majority perception of 89K french rugby fans...not media hype...that souds like an excuse when you don't like the consensus...sometimes the consensus is wrong, but if it starts stacking up against your point of view, maybe it's time to reevaluate your position?

Draad, consensus is not fact. Popular belief doesn’t automatically make something true.

If 89 000 fans vote based on perception or reputation, that’s still not evidence.

We all watched the same season. Players like Sacha, Esterhuizen, Nortje, Wiese, Wilco, Kwagga and Kolbe were visibly more influential in the Boks’ success.

That’s not bias, that’s observation backed by performances.

So no, I won’t ignore what I saw on the field just because a French newspaper decided to run a popularity poll.

Accepting that blindly would mean giving up honest analysis for groupthink.

I prefer reality over reputation.

"If 89 000 fans vote based on perception or reputation, that’s still not evidence."

No it's not evidence, but it's an indication to the opinion they agreed on after watching the games at their dispisal...not definitive but probably closer to the truth than the contrary...we don't know enough about the parameters of their selection to slate it...what period, which games?...all games or only internationals?...doesn't matter, just another recognition amongst many....like I said...it adds up....

Only a fucking rugby idiot would not rate PSDT

"No it's not evidence, but it's an indication to the opinion they agreed on after watching the games at their dispisal...not definitive but probably closer to the truth than the contrary...we don't know enough about the parameters of their selection to slate it...what period, which games?...all games or only internationals?...doesn't matter, just another recognition amongst many....like I said...it adds up...."

They're probably given a list of players to pick from.

Oaks anybody thinking Du Toit is not a great player is a rugby clown, somebody who lacks any rugby acumen.

The praise for Du Toit and Rassie is universal. Name me any rugby guys of note who says otherwise. I can't recall seeing anybody outside of these clowns posting here who don't rate them very highly.

Mozzietard asking us to explain why we rate Du Toit and Rassie so highly is absurd. Over the years this has been explained ad nauseum. Have the clowns got attention deficit?

When you make blunders of the magnitude of not rating Rassie Du Toit and Allende you show yourself to be ignorant. Character flaws are made evident. A big ego, huge stubbornness and bias and inability to admit you were hopelessly wrong. Emotional immaturity in that you couldn't celebrate the Bok win because Rassie, Du Toit and Allende were a big part of it. All this turned into bitterness and rage as we saw by the comments after Rassie's second RWC win. A decent into lies, smears and belittling.

These clowns never stop going after Rassie and the Boks. They will not be happy till The Boks lose and Rassie Du Toit and Allende are gone.

For the rest of us it's been one of the greatest eras in Springboks history where this team is being compared to the best teams ever.

The disappointment to me is Plum who I once thought to be a sensible, objective poster. Unfortunately he linked up with the malignant mozzietard and here we are today with him posting some absolute drivel.

Can Plum free himself from the malignant influence destroying his Judgement I wonder.

I do also hope mozzietard comes to recognize the error of his ways but he is far, far gone.

"Mozzietard asking us to explain why we rate Du Toit and Rassie so highly is absurd. Over the years this has been explained ad nauseum. Have the clowns got attention deficit?"

Excellent!

You should easily be able to point us to these posts.

Oaks it's the magnitude of these BLUNDERS that is so unique.

Add to that the refusal to budge, the refusal to accept evidence, the refusal to accept they are in the 0.0001 percent of opinion.

This little Cabal of loons strut the board looking down on others. They alone are right.

Bwahahahahaha how utterly rediculous they look today.

What is the solution. An admission they have been wrong and that they have been disgracefully smearing Rassie, Du Toit Allende and the Boks.

All will be forgiven and we can move forward.

So, not gonna point us to a single one of the "ad nauseam" posts explaining what exactly makes PSDT so good?

## Pieter?Steph du Toit




Here’s a breakdown of **why Pieter-Steph du Toit (PSDT)** is widely recognised as a *world-class player*, especially in the context of international rugby and his role with the South Africa national rugby union team (“the Boks”). I’ll highlight the attributes, achievements and typical game-impact that set him apart.

---

### 1. Elite achievements & recognition

* Du Toit was awarded the World Rugby Player of the Year in 2024. ([Daily Maverick][1])

* He was recognised by French publication Midi Olympique as the “best player in the world” for 2025, ahead of other top stars. ([SABC Sport][2])

* His playing minutes and consistency: At one point he logged more minutes (560) than any other player in 2025 for the Springboks. ([SA Rugby magazine][3])

These accolades show that his peers, media and analysts see him not just as a good player, but among the best globally.

---

### 2. Physical and technical attributes

Du Toit has a combination of traits that make him special:

* **Physicality**: He has the size, strength and fitness to compete in the tight exchanges of forward play (rucks, mauls, contact) *and* the mobility to cover large areas.

* **Versatility**: Although often used as a flanker (usually No 6/7), he has also played as a lock/second-row, showing positional adaptability.

* **Work-rate and endurance**: Being someone who logs huge minutes for his team indicates both physical durability and the trust coaches place in him.

* **Technical skill**: He is strong in the areas that matter for forwards — tackling, securing breakdowns, competing in line-outs, carrying ball, linking with backs when needed.

His “toolbox” is broad, and he executes across many facets of play.

---

### 3. Game-impact and moments

What elevates a player from very good to world-class is *impact* — how often and how decisively they influence games. With Du Toit:

* He steps up in big matches (e.g., World Cup fixtures) and while that may sometimes trend in commentary, many analysts cite his match?winning interventions. ([Reddit][4])

* His ability to both defend and attack means opposition teams must account for him in multiple phases of play.

* He brings leadership (even if not always formal captain) via example — high fitness levels, aggression, resilience — that lifts the team.

---

### 4. Consistency and longevity

* Being world-class isn’t just about one breakout season. Du Toit has maintained top-level performance over multiple seasons.

* The article that notes he logged more minutes than any other player for the Boks in 2025 implies he hasn’t just featured—he’s stayed central. ([SA Rugby magazine][3])

* His recognition across years (2024, 2025) shows sustained excellence, not a one-off peak.

---

### 5. Intangible / leadership / character

* Analysts often mention his “influence” on the squad: the harder parts of the game that don’t always show up in stats (e.g., setting tone, making big tackles, carrying when others are tired).

* The fact that peer commentary extends to calling him “one of the best players the world has ever seen” (though subjective) points to his reputation. ([Facebook][5])

* His adaptability and willingness to do the “dirty work” of forward play endears him to coaches and teammates.

---

### Summary

Putting it all together: Du Toit is world-class because he combines **top-tier achievement**, **physical/technical excellence**, **game-influence**, **consistency**, and **leadership/character**. He ticks nearly all the boxes you’d set for a “global elite” in rugby.

If you like, I can pull up **specific match examples** (e.g., World Cup semi/final plays) showing *how* he influenced outcomes and *why* commentators singled him out. Would you like that?

[1]: https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2024-11-24-pieter-steph-du-toit-named-mens-world-rugby-player-of-the-year-after-monumental-season/?utm_source=chatgpt.com "Brilliant Pieter-Steph du Toit named men's World Rugby ..."

[2]: https://www.sabcsport.com/rugby/news/allez-les-vert-french-publication-names-psdt-the-best-player-in-the-world?utm_source=chatgpt.com "Allez Les... Vert? French publication names PSDT the best ..."

[3]: https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/mallett-picks-psdts-successor/?utm_source=chatgpt.com "Mallett picks PSDT's successor"

[4]: https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/1gz0p41/mens_15s_player_of_the_year_pietersteph_du_toit/?utm_source=chatgpt.com "Men's 15s Player of the Year Pieter-Steph du Toit"

[5]: https://www.facebook.com/sarugbymagazine/posts/pieter-steph-du-toit-has-been-an-absolute-beast-for-the-springboks/1275005187997920/?utm_source=chatgpt.com "Pieter-Steph du Toit has been an absolute beast for the ..."

But the one single trait which makes all this possible is HEART...the presence and never say die attitude...he lifts the players around him to a new level...a actual real life talisman...

Really?

"Hey, Chat, tell me why PSDT is so amazing"

Chat goes blah blah blah.

Hey, Chat, craft a counter argument...

"

Counter-argument: heavy on opinion, light on data

1) Awards ? proof of superiority

Player-of-the-Year titles and media lists (e.g., a panel vote or an editorial ranking) are opinions, not measurements. They reflect narratives, moments, and voter preferences, and they rarely disclose transparent criteria or weightings. Citing them shows esteem, not objective dominance over peers.

2) Minutes played aren’t a performance metric

Claiming “most minutes” conflates availability with quality. High minutes can result from squad rotation, injuries to others, or coaching preference. If the point is performance, show rate stats per 80 minutes (tackles made/attempted, missed-tackle %, turnovers won, penalties conceded, carry efficiency, ruck effectiveness) rather than raw time on field.

3) Vague attributes without measurements

“Physicality,” “work rate,” “technical skill,” and “versatility” are asserted, not quantified. If those are the pillars, where are the numbers? Examples that would move this from opinion to evidence:

1. Tackle success % and dominant tackle % vs Tier-1 back-rowers.
2. Turnovers won per 80 and breakdown arrival impact (effective rucks).
3. Lineout win/steal rates when targeted or contesting.
4. Carry meters per carry, gainline %, post-contact meters, offload rate.
5. Penalties conceded per 80 and error rate.

4) “Steps up in big games” is anecdotal

Highlighting big-match “moments” is classic confirmation bias unless you provide match-by-match breakdowns for knockouts and top-10 opposition: defensive actions, turnovers, gainline wins, penalty differential, and expected-points impact. A Reddit thread or a commentator’s memory isn’t a dataset.

5) Consistency and longevity are claimed, not demonstrated

Saying “sustained excellence” needs rolling season-by-season comparables against other elite flankers/locks (per-80 rates, percentiles, and confidence intervals). Peaks, dips, and injury-affected seasons matter. Without those, it’s just reputation.

6) Intangibles are, by definition, non-falsifiable

“Leadership,” “influence,” and “talismanic presence” are real but unmeasured here—and citing a Facebook post is not evidence. If you want to argue intangibles, use multiple primary sources (coaches/teammates) and triangulate with on-field proxies (e.g., defensive speed, ruck slowdowns, pressure events).

7) No comparative baseline

The piece doesn’t benchmark him against contemporaries in the same roles (other world-class 6/7s or hybrid lock/loose forwards). Without peer comparison—percentiles or ranks among, say, top 10 international back-rowers—the claim “world-class” rests on status, not separation.

8) Source quality issues

Reddit and Facebook are fan opinions. Even reputable outlets publishing award news are still relaying judgments, not providing granular performance evidence. An evidence-based case would lean on audited datasets (Opta/Stats Perform; competition provider reports) and reproducible tables/visuals.

9) Team-effect isn’t addressed

Springbok systems amplify certain forward traits (defensive load, contestable kicks, maul platforms). Team structure can make an individual look more or less impactful. Without isolating player effect from system effect (e.g., on/off splits, role-adjusted metrics), attributing team dominance to one player is speculative.

What a data-backed case would need (and this piece lacks)

1. Per-80 defensive and attacking metrics across the same time window for PSDT and his peer group.
2. High-leverage game splits (vs top-ranked opponents; World Cup knockouts) with efficiency, not volume.
3. Discipline profile (penalties, cards) and net value added (expected points prevented/created).
4. Lineout and breakdown impact quantified, not described.

Bottom line: the write-up leans on accolades, broad adjectives, and anecdote. Until it brings comparative, role-adjusted metrics and transparent benchmarks, it’s largely subjective opinion—admiring, sure, but not the same as evidence."

Blah blah, you are wrong and it's time to admit it. Actually long, long overdue.

Beeno, you said that PSDTs actual strengths have been described and explained ad nauseum on here.

I've simply asked you to point to such a post.

Is that an unreasonable request? The reason I ask is because I don't recall many such posts at all.

What I don't understand is that you guys want to defend and attack based on the opinions of others, but you never actually get into the weeds and discuss or explain the technical elements of these things.

If I tell you that I think a player is good, I am willing to explain exactly why I think so based on what I see happen on the field. I will point to moments, specific attributes or how they provided momentum, etc. EG, with DDA I will lay out very clearly why i don't rate him. I'll also lay out just as clearly why I rate AE above him and I'll use my own opinions backed up by facts. You will very rarely hear me say "So and so is good because these people rate him."

But for some reason you guys don't seem to ever want to do that.

Now, I ask you, what good is a rugby forum where it's all about attacking other posters for their opinions but never actually talking about rugby itself.

All it amount to is "You're stupid, because he's great." "No, you're stupid because he's not."

Why don't we try to adults and actually discuss these things...it's far more fun. Else what's the point?

Every time Moffie or his Servile Gimps demand specific incidents or video evidence or pretty much anything to support PSdT's claims to being a world class rugby player, they're actually just demonstrating how little they know about the game.

They squeal about statistics, denigrate any form of awards or recognition and they run off to ChatGPT to support their silly little fantasies while conveniently forgetting one important and undeniable fact . . . Pieter-Steph du Toit strikes fear into the opposition . . . in a way that no other Springbok does. When an opposition team hears that they'll be facing Franco Mostert then there are probably a few high fives in the dressing room, while if it's PSdT, there'll be an awkward and uncomfortable silence and maybe even a few wet pants.

That's what PSdT brings. Never mind how many turnovers he won or how many tackles he bust or how many tries he scored . . . he changes the opposition mindset and affects their entire game plan.

Now watch the Gimps scuttle off to ChatGPT to try disprove that.

Good luck, Servile Gimps.

How in the World can Plum be asking for evidence after years of posters explaining why DuToit is a great player. This issue didn't start today!

For probably a decade they have been slagging off Du Toit and for a decade they have been refuted.

It's game over for the loons - years ago.

Nobody but the Mamparas on this board slag off Du Toit.

They have heard the evidence seen the videos but still insist on making complete Mamparas of themselves. Hilarious stuff from these crazy oaks!

So no sorry Plum I am not going to go running off to look up posts, articles, facts stats, videos etc etc. It's all over.

You guys made three horrendous logic defying calls and have each earned a big dunce cap.

"Pieter-Steph du Toit strikes fear into the opposition . . . in a way that no other Springbok does. When an opposition team hears that they'll be facing Franco Mostert then there are probably a few high fives in the dressing room, while if it's PSDT, there'll be an awkward and uncomfortable silence and maybe even a few wet pants."

I can live with an explanation like that. Even if abstract, its speaks to something tangible. Funny, and you won't believe me, but as I wrote one of the posts earlier in this thread, the thought did cross my mind that you are one of the people that would provide something to actually talk about in your opinion on a player.

But I would say that Marco strikes the same, if not more, fear into the hearts of opposition. He hits really hard in runs, tackles and rucks. He's more effective in traffic, though less so out wide or at pace, than PSDT.

For me, I prefer the Boks to be more compact, up the middle of the field and to then bring the Cheslins and Willemsen's into the game. We look the most dominant when we play like that. So, I lean more toward a Marco type, granted it gives away some advantage at lineout time and out wide(perhaps).

I for sure don't think PSDT is the best 7 in the world, but I'm always happy when a Saffa wins an international award and I'm no less proud of him - so lets not get that mixed up.

Plum, you're full of sh!t...

It’s quite something to see how quickly reason gets drowned out by groupthink the moment Pieter-Steph’s name comes up.

Not one of us, not me, Moz, Plum, or Pakie, ever said he’s a bad player.

What we’ve said, consistently, is that this season, there have been players who’ve had a greater influence on the Bok’s actual success.

That’s a fair, balanced observation, not an insult.

But instead of engaging on that level, some of you jump straight to name-calling and fantasy talk about “wet pants” and “fear in the opposition.”

That’s emotion, not analysis. Rugby is measured by performance, impact, and consistency.

Not mythology or popularity polls run by a few nostalgic old-timers at a French newspaper.

Yes, Du Toit is a good player. Powerful, reliable, committed. But that doesn’t make him untouchable.

This season he’s been solid, not spectacular. To pretend otherwise is bias, plain and simple.

Awards like this are subjective by nature. Driven by perception, not data.

Blondie is popular, sure, but popularity isn’t performance. Some of us still prefer evidence over emotion.

M, you're full of sh!t!

The notion that a great flanker’s contributions wouldn’t show up in statistics is a classical head in the sand approach. I repeat again….show me the incident where Dud Toit won a test….show me where he was an effective ball carrier….show me where he competed for the ball on the deck like other tall loosies….show me where he made one non process pass.

Show me…..don’t quote some jock with an IQ of 90, show me these contributions which exceed those of our other loosies. If this was about Vermeulen, we would find stuff…..like the offload that beat Wales to get us into the semi’s

Go ahead show me

Ou Draaitjies loves his WP manne.

It's okay, Draad, I know the chest swells haha

Marco strikes fear in the opposition - more so than PSDT

Geez I’ve read some shit in my time

Ou Draaitjies loves his WP manne.

It's okay, Draad, I know the chest swells haha"

Yes, I'm loyal to my WP, but the Bokke comes 1st...