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FORUM / RUGBY /  Are the 2023 Boks the greatest TEAM ever

Are the 2023 Boks the greatest TEAM ever

Started by Beeno1119 REPLIES13,101 VIEWS· 06 Dec 2023, 11:00
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Dec 2023, 01:01
#81
09 Dec 2023, 01:01#81

Classical Mike who wouldn’t recognize a stat if it hit him in the face denigrates ESPN. No facts just assertions. But watch this well liked analyst go through his sources….his #1 source….ESPN.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32TC5uwBjHI


What Mike says ….the opposite is true.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Dec 2023, 01:22
#82
09 Dec 2023, 01:22#82

Swine? Gosh that’s a bit harsh Plum…hahaha. The equation is just indicative…..an aid to thinking through the issue. I actually believe most of what I’ve said about the WC, although on occasion I might have been trolling a bit.

But I have always had respect for aesthetics in sport. Ernie Els’ golf swing, Grahame Pollock’s cover drive, Federer’s baseline half volley. These things inspire more than pure results. Gary may be mentally tougher than Ernie, but I enjoy watching the Big Easy far more.

So yes I obviously want the Boks to win the WC….hell I played rugby at Newlands it’s in my DNA…but I’d be so much more inspired if we produced just a modicum of back line play. I also believe if we can integrate that into the fabric we would be even tougher to beat.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
09 Dec 2023, 04:32
#83
09 Dec 2023, 04:32#83
Haha it's just a saying, Moz. I dont consider anyone here to be "beer can". Say it out load "beer can". I just taught you how to say bacon like a Jamaican. And that rhymes. ;)
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
09 Dec 2023, 05:40
#84
09 Dec 2023, 05:40#84

The facts are simple. Frot mozzie has waged an unrelenting campaign against Rassie showing a level of bias only matched by the departed Doos.

There is no honest balanced analysis coming from mozzie. There has never been ever since Rassie started to coach Free State. Its been one smear after another. The loon even waged an unrelenting campaign against Du Toit who ws busy winning the rugny player of the year. Mozz is nothing more than a clown thee days.

Now Rassie has walked off with another RWC and the buffoon is beside himself. So rather than admit his mistakes as Rooitwit did he goes on day after day trying to to prove the Boks are unworthy winners and thus Rassie is not a great coach. That is wat its all about. Not fair comment or analysis its just to discredit Rassie.

You really don't get more pathetic than this and I for one cant take this jackass mozz seriously anymore.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
09 Dec 2023, 08:57
#85
09 Dec 2023, 08:57#85

"Points differential= f(complex variables) +kicking success differential=1 for all of the last 3 matches...therefore if any of the "complex variables " (which isn't so complex BTW) resulted in 2 points less, we lost....my point, it was a team effort...Manie's foot passes for the early tries and Eben's try vs France, RG's try vs. the Poms...everyone's tackles in all the last 3 matches...one slipped tackle too many and all Pollard’s kicks were in vain or didn't even happen...BTW, luck was one of those not so complex variables, but you don't win a RWC on luck alone...and we didn't.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Dec 2023, 16:11
#86
09 Dec 2023, 16:11#86

Your problem HasBeen is you have become a nutter, believing every conspiracy theory promoted on insane far right sites. I’m sorry I hurt your feelings by telling you almost every one was factually exaggerated if not dead wrong, but it’s hard to see a man so deluded and not try to help.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
09 Dec 2023, 18:15
#87
09 Dec 2023, 18:15#87
Draad... Which is rarer and harder to emulate/repeat... A 100% kicking record from the 1/4s to the lifting the Cup...with a few of those kicks being from halfway and under as much pressure as rugby can provide... Or anything else you saw from any player in the squad? Here is a clue... Nobody has ever done what Pollard did. I don't get what you guys are struggling with here. "In sports, "MVP" stands for "Most Valuable Player." This term is used to recognize the player who has made the most significant contribution to their team's success during a particular season, game, or championship. The MVP award is a highly esteemed accolade in various sports, both at amateur and professional levels. The criteria for selecting an MVP can vary depending on the sport and the level at which it is played, but it typically includes considerations of the player's skill, statistics, leadership, and impact on the team's performance." Moz is saying that without Pollard, clearly our MVP, we'd likely not have won the competition. Pollard was the difference. Isn't it kinda obvious?
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
09 Dec 2023, 18:22
#88
09 Dec 2023, 18:22#88
It may be a stretch but the legal term "causation" is semi-applicable here. If we are going to call all positive contributions equal to each other then we may as well say that the people that built the stadium deserve as much credit for the win as Pollard does. I know I'm stretching bounds here but I think we're all smart enough to know what I'm getting at.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
09 Dec 2023, 18:26
#89
09 Dec 2023, 18:26#89

Plum, I  don't know what you're struggling with here...I'm not negating Pollard’s effort...I  think it was absolutely phenomenal, but that's not the issue...Moz is full of sh!t...he's trivializing the effort of the rest of the team and coaching staff , if you can't  see it, I can't  help you...Pollard MVP, sure, the only reason we won the RWC? Norrefok...this is getting tiresome. 

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
09 Dec 2023, 18:54
#90
09 Dec 2023, 18:54#90
Finally, I also agree that we can and should play far more attractive rugby. We have beast forwards, and they seem to roll endlessly off the production line. We could be demolishing most of the world regularly if we just backed the backline talent in action rather than word. It's partly why I was so disappointed with Manie. I had fantasies about Manie making himself undroppable and then forcing the coaches hand into much more free style of rugby on the basis of his best in position distribution.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
09 Dec 2023, 19:02
#91
09 Dec 2023, 19:02#91

Manie is like Carlos Spencer...he'll do fantastic things...but almost just as much stupid things...I don't care, I enjoy it while it lasts. ..Moz's drag-me-downs-like-a-kreef-in-a-bucket irriteer die kak uit my uit.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
09 Dec 2023, 19:35
#92
09 Dec 2023, 19:35#92
Only because you failing to be a tad more critical in your thinking, Draad. There's an interesting conversation there once you shush the tribe.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
10 Dec 2023, 04:22
#93
10 Dec 2023, 04:22#93

Only dead fish go with the flow...I'm no conformist...the opposite actually,  but I'm no "contrarian" either...and I liked the AE/Moodie paring in the Twickers game, but the more conservative game we played in the wet final doesn't bother me to the extent that it diminishes my satisfaction with our RWC victory....sure we were lucky...sure Pollard saved our bacon....but it was also so much more than that...I'll take it without feeling any guilt...we've had our share of bad luck...I ain't giving back a bit of good fortune.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
10 Dec 2023, 10:11
#94
10 Dec 2023, 10:11#94
Draad... The problem is that we almost always play conservative rugby. The AB warm up game was no different. It was forwards that scored most of our tries. Just because it was a large margin, doesn't mean we played with any sort of freedom. It was a great game and an excellent performance but it wasn't very free. Actually, the amount of dominance in the game, the fact we used the backs so little tells you exactly that we don't care much for back play. Against 14 men, wrecking the opposition forwards, and you still don't trust the backs enough to let them run...in a warm-up? When will you trust them enough? In the RC...in an end of year tour? ...or only against Romania? And that was pretty much the story of the competition and the story of the years leading up to the WC. We did plenty of experimenting but then when it gets to it, we play ping pong and the backs hardly ever see the ball. Look at the French game. It was kick chases that won us the game. Little to nothing through the hands. Same against England. Same against Ireland...same in the final. Look, my view is, if we want to largely ignore the backs, fine...but then don't mess around with DDA, Kriel and Cheslin. Get fast and big loose forwards in the backs(Roos, Kwagga, Dayimani...)...and go all out with a bigger slower gameplan. Use a 10 like Pollard...+ five loose forwards that are good at turning over ball. I mean, we already basically use DDA as a loosie at 12. Why stop there?
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
10 Dec 2023, 14:08
#95
10 Dec 2023, 14:08#95

Ja Plum, it's not ideal...I get that...but it's not a junkyard either.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Dec 2023, 01:21
#96
11 Dec 2023, 01:21#96

Not a conformist, not a contrarian…..that seems to cover all bases. Hold on a Draad sitter maybe?

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
11 Dec 2023, 09:25
#97
11 Dec 2023, 09:25#97

The trouble with Plum is that for some strange reason he refuses to acknowledge that Mozzz has been an unrelenting virulent critic of Rassie way back from the time Rassie coached Free State as a player. Mozzzue is not interested in truth his real interest is the savaging of Rassie's reputation. That is what IS AT THE BOTTOM. OF A HIS ARGUMENTS. 

For some reason Plum diggedly ignores this constant bias and malice by Mozzzue who is only slightly less unhinged than poor Doos.

Plum strangely refuses to admit real Mozzzzie's objective is to diminish the Bok win as a means of discrediting Rassie as he has consistently done for years.

Is Plumm auditioning to take over the position vacated by Doos one wonders. 

I do hope Plum does not follow Mozzie into the darkness. 

As for Mozzie he has been caught out time and again. But the mampara maintains everybody against his whacked out nonsense is a conspiracy theorist. This delusional nutter could not admit any of the facts showing US led NATO instigated the war against Russia. Proving he is a bald faced liar etc etc. 




MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Dec 2023, 15:22
#98
11 Dec 2023, 15:22#98

You are a conspiracy theorist HasBeen, there isn’t a bat crazy idea about the West you haven’t bought. 

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
12 Dec 2023, 05:42
#99
12 Dec 2023, 05:42#99
lol Beeno I'm not a follower my friend. I just like levelheaded honesty, that's all.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
12 Dec 2023, 16:54
#100
12 Dec 2023, 16:54#100

...then you should be able to recognize deception...

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
12 Dec 2023, 19:41
#101
12 Dec 2023, 19:41#101

Exactly Draad. Mozzie is a liar. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Dec 2023, 20:15
#102
12 Dec 2023, 20:15#102

Okay you keep using that word….produce one lie…back up your bluster 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
13 Dec 2023, 07:04
#103
13 Dec 2023, 07:04#103

You must be joking. You know darn well the drivel you post is BS. 


DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
13 Dec 2023, 08:02
#104
13 Dec 2023, 08:02#104

"...then you should be able to recognize deception"

As I would expect you to do .....

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
13 Dec 2023, 09:55
#105
13 Dec 2023, 09:55#105

Mozzie is the arch deceiver here. That is why I am calling him out. It's one load of garbage after another.its time Mozzie pulled himself together. Tried his level best to be honest etc. 

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
13 Dec 2023, 14:08
#106
13 Dec 2023, 14:08#106
Drivel and lies aren't the same thing. Beeno, I just don't understand why you have to accuse someone you disagree with of lying and make them out to be on some evil crusade. Can't you just accept that people might not agree with you? ...and that it doesn't have to involve some evil plot? Moz doesn't like Rassie. I could not stand Meyer or Coetzee. Who cares?
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
13 Dec 2023, 16:30
#107
13 Dec 2023, 16:30#107

Once again you show you don't know what has been going here here. 

Way back, 8 think it was around 2004 to 2006 Rassie Erasmus became to the player coach of Free State. While he was coach Free State won 2 of the 3 Currie Cup wins.

But virtually ftom the start this bigot Mozzzie launched a campaign against Rassie. So we are talking about almost 20 year of vitriol directed at this coach. People like Mike and I were posting with Mozzie way back then

So for almost 20 Years we have been subjected to this never ending barrage of spin, lies and Smears against Rassie. 

As time went on Mozzie got more and more obsessed in trying to prove Rassie was a useless coach. 

In 2019 he trashed the Boks and Rassie. He continued this all they way till now. 

The last thing Mozzie wanted was a Bok win. It left him fully exposed for the hater he has been towards Rassie but only worse.

Enough is enough. He will continue to get called out if he posts his lies and BS. The clown had learnt nothing about Rassie in almost 20 years. 

So I have been rightly calling this buffoon out and make no apologies for it.

Then you get him ignoring all the facts surrounding the Ukraine war. No this guy is dishonest. Mike has schooled him repeatedly but he is immune to the facts. 

His approach to things is fundamentally dishonest. 

If he posts his drivel on the board he can expect to and will be called out. Just like poor Doos got called out. 

This not about somebody casually disliking Rassie. This is an obsession arising from Rassie humiliating Mozzzie repeatedly and never more so than in 2023. Mozzie is not offering fair ballnced comments his is just continuing his two decades old vendetta. 

Doubtless the buffoon will give us no rest on the subject even if RASSIE WINS A THIRD RWC. I see no end in sight. 

Rassie is a great coach. Very few people today would contest that. 

Moz was miserable when the Boks win and immediately should to devalue the win while the real Bok supporters were all rejoicing. That is a fact. 






MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Dec 2023, 17:02
#108
13 Dec 2023, 17:02#108

Untrue….everybody in my group was  on our feet cheering when the Boks won. So I repeat my challenge, name one lie that I have posted on here.

The floor is your’s.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Dec 2023, 08:22
#109
14 Dec 2023, 08:22#109

Sure - it was not any lie - it was jsut the total misrepresentation of the  situation raised in the above video and the inability of Mozart to understand anything relating to the issue of teambuilding .   His only objct is hated of Erasus as coach and of certain players that he considers as causing of Springbok failures based on his hatred over  many years with ma ny cases of outright lies about Erasmus and the players concerned.   

With Mozart around in the land of the blind cockeye is king.   That is the real idiom involved.   .That is why  I said every posting of Mozart represents boring cock-eyed BS spreading and that does not apply only to rugby issues - but to every issue he raised on site.   .            .   

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
14 Dec 2023, 09:07
#110
14 Dec 2023, 09:07#110

Mozzzie your lies are so numerous that I could spend the rest of this year listing them. But of course I have no intention of being a puppet on your string running around to satisfy your crazy requests.

How about ceasing your vitriolic unceasing attacks on Rassie and admitting you were completely wrong about him so we can move on from this nonsense you post every day hoping to convince somebody that Rassie is useless. The ji g is up and you have made a complete mampara of yourself.

Bwahahahahhahahahahaha 


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Dec 2023, 16:55
#111
14 Dec 2023, 16:55#111

Being right or wrong is a matter of opinion. A lie is something else..   produce one lie I have ever posted in 20 years of posting on these Boards. Put up, or stop lying yourself.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
14 Dec 2023, 19:38
#112
14 Dec 2023, 19:38#112

"Being right or wrong is a matter of opinion"

Actually no, it's a matter of facts...opinion is the interpretation of the facts...being dishonest in your interpretation of the facts is not technically lying...but almost the same thing...bias makes being really honest difficult...and we all have our biases...

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Dec 2023, 21:45
#113
14 Dec 2023, 21:45#113

Of course it is….if somebody honestly believe something which isn’t true, it’s a mistake not a lie. As for bias, calling the positives and the negatives is not bias. Bias is only seeing one side of the story, something you, Dave and HasBeen consistently do.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Dec 2023, 00:18
#114
15 Dec 2023, 00:18#114

Mozart

Your lies are so many I will take days to deal with it.   It is not opinion - it is hatred of people that cause lies being spread about them by you.    .   

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Dec 2023, 01:44
#115
15 Dec 2023, 01:44#115
Er….not days…not even years. After all you have been unsuccessfully trying to catch me in a lie for 10 years at least. Ou groot bek.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Dec 2023, 01:45
#116
15 Dec 2023, 01:45#116
Er….not days…not even years. After all you have been unsuccessfully trying to catch me in a lie for 10 years at least. Ou groot bek.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Dec 2023, 08:51
#117
15 Dec 2023, 08:51#117

The old saying is you are entitled to your opinion but not your facts. You have a right to be wrong. 

Trouble here is the facts prove you wrong. You ignore the facts presented and then give a totally dishonest version of events. Your take on the Ukraine war is a great example. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Dec 2023, 21:44
#118
15 Dec 2023, 21:44#118

Disagree, nobody in America wanted a war between Ukraine and Russia. For the simple reason that everybody thought Russia would win in weeks. Military genius after military genius told us that. So what possible benefit could it have been to the West to start a war they thought was going to be lost, elevating Putin and the Russian myth.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Dec 2023, 06:10
#119
16 Dec 2023, 06:10#119

Mozart

You ahve been caught lyming  about your desciptiion of what happened in matches all the time.    This goes back to your so-calledf  Morzoscopes of a decade ago.   When it was then poven it was based on hogwash and you skipped that one altogether,

You were told hundxreds of times that you base all your arguments on stats provided - while experts have advanced systems these are  used to follow players during whole amtches and that the activities of playes and there inputs are available and used by real rugby experts when considring constribution by players.     

These advancd tools were too complicated for Meyer and Coetze to understand and despite discussion of those in numerous media articles not even a world expert on rugby like you undersand how player evaluation is done.   So in 2019 the only real reason for the selection of Du Toit in 2019 was based only on the Springboks winning the WC in 2019.   So what happened in 2023 when Savea was rightfully the player of the year despite the fact that in the end the AB's did not win the WC in 2023?    Motert was shit in the 2019 WC and equally so in 2023 - yet you came up with the BS 9 that his replacement of the injured De Jager in the 2019 WC was the reason why the Springboks won the 2019 WC - then switch to Beast because of his scrum dominance and then to Pollard making the goal kicks.    

You opinion is used to lead to practical lies you spread about things like a non-existent tryscoring opportunity being undermined by De Allende.    You spun a lie that it was a trysc ouiing opportunity which it was not.   

But tghen you admitted that you do not regard the truth about performanxce of some players you ignore.    The try scored was not recignize because of a failed tacckle attemot by the welsh flyhalf - but nt the fact that there were two other players also missed attempted tackles - the eonly imortant thing that ahppened and gave credit only to a turnover by Louw of the ball  in the  semi-final and being converted by Pollard,   You thn gave a false description of what happened in the case of the Welsh try in the same match ending in du Toit being blamed for a try scored by the Welsh wing.

These are just a few examples of BS spreading lies you used.  The myth about that nobody caught you out lying on site is the biggest joke ever on site.    .  .    .     .   .      .       .      .   .     .     .      


BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
16 Dec 2023, 10:33
#120
16 Dec 2023, 10:33#120

Actually mozzz Rusdia was said to be a backward country with a poor military and small economy etc. 

Sanctions would cripple Russia. The Nordsteam 2 pipeline was blown up by Biden to ensure no gas exports to Europe. 

The Ukrainian armed force built up by the USA were going yo smash Putin. Indeed Putin would become so unpopular as the body bags came home and Ukra8n March on Moscow thst Putin would be kicked out via a coup. 

 Russuevwoukd thrn be dismembered and her resources raped. Best of all LGBT doctrines would be introduced and the borders of Russia opened to ensure the Russian people were destroyed.

It was all hopeless Globalist propaganda. They knew there was zero chance of Rusdia losing this proxy war. The real agenda was yo cause economic chaos in Europe with the aim of destroying Western Civilization. 

Look at the emergence of a multi polar world and the de-dollarization taking place. The Globalist want a World Government run on the lines of the CCP.. 

So the intent was never to topple Putin. If you disagree explain how Russia could ever be beaten. Any threat if thst a they press the button. THE USA and Europe disappear. 

So again Mozzie lies about what the Globalist West was predicting. 

Putin if course was also dying of cancer. One lie another. 

Mozzie also lies about the predicates for this war and the way Biden scuppered peace talks. 

One lie follows another. 





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