BACK TO THE FUTURE: OUR 2019 BOKS; Rugby 365

WITH THE 2015 WORLD CUP BEHIND US WE SPECULATE ON WHO WILL PLAY FOR THE SPRINGBOKS IN 2019 AND LOOK BACK AT OUR PREDICTIONS IN 2011.

After South Africa was dumped out of the 2011 World Cup in the quarterfinal by Australia, we sat down and each picked the starting XV we expected to see in 2015.

Those teams make for interesting reading as for example nobody expected Bryan Habana to be there, while 

everyone picked Johan Goosen.

On average around half of the players we picked for our individual Springbok starting XV's actually made it into Heyneke Meyer's squad that finished with the bronze medal in England.

That is not a terrible strike rate considering the four-year gap and everything that has happened in South African rugby in that time, but that did not discourage us from doing the same again.

With the likes of Handre Pollard, Lodewyk de Jager and Jesse Kriel still yet to hit Matric and Victor Matfield having just retired in 2011, there have been a number of players that none of us saw coming, and there are sure to be more by the time competition gets underway in Japan.

The fact that there are only three positions with unanimous selections for 2019 - both locks and tighthead prop - shows just how varied opinions on selections can be, especially with the wide lens of a four-year projection.

However, our selectors have never been known to shrink from a challenge and there are a fair few 'klips in die bos' which are sure to get them some stick from the readers - just as they did four years ago.

The two positions which seem to be most widely divided are scrumhalf, right wing and outside centre, with little to no consensus about who should play there for the Boks in Japan.

One thing that all of the selectors clearly agree on is that it is time for some new blood, with Pat Lambie the only player in any of our squads who currently has more than 50 caps Test experience.

At fullback it seems to be between Jesse Kriel and his fellow Bulls star Warrick Gelant, although Jan de Koning is backing Clayton Blommetjies to be the man at the back and nobody interested in Willie le Roux.

There seem to be plenty of options on the wing, with every team featuring a different right wing and opinion divided between Jamba Ulengo and Lwazi Mvovo on the left, while there is no place at all for JP Pietersen.

In midfield there seems to be agreement that Damian de Allende should keep the No.12 jersey, with only Paul Dobson suggesting that Handre Pollard could play there, but there is no agreement whatsoever about who should play outside centre with a range of different options.

At flyhalf Pollard is the favourite, although there were calls for Pat Lambie and Elton Jantjies, and there is far less certainty about scrumhalf with Rudy Paige the only option to get more than one vote.

At No.8 the majority expect Duane Vermeulen to take his place, but the wise heads of Dobson and De Koning do not expect to see his body hold up that long and have opted for the youthful exuberance of Sikhumbuzo Notshe and Tim Agaba instead.

On the side of the scrum Siya Kolisi is favoured to take over as blindside, with the Kings' Thembelani Bholi a serious option for Warren Fortune and Tauriq Ebrahim, while at openside most would like to see Jaco Kriel with the exception of Michael de Vries who opted for Marcell Coetzee.

In the second row it was unanimous, with nobody deviating from the impressive pairing of Eben Etzebeth and Lodewyk de Jager, and most agreeing that Pieter-Steph du Toit would be their man to sit on the bench.

In the front row there is complete confidence in Frans Malherbe at tighthead, and on the loosehead side it seems to be between Steven Kitshoff and Trevor Nyakane, while young Malcolm Marx is favourite to claim the hooker berth ahead of Siyabonga Ntubeni.

Here are our 2019 Bok teams:

Paul Dobson XV: 15 Jesse Kriel, 14 Sergeal Pietersen, 13 Damian de Allende, 12 Handré Pollard, 11 Lwazi Mvovo, 10 Patrick Lambie, 9 Shaun Venter, 8 Sikhumbuzo Notshe, 7 Siya Kolisi, 6 Jaco Kriel, 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Malcolm Marx, 1 Steven Kitshoff.

Jan de Koning XV: 15 Clayton Blommetjies, 14 Courtnall Skosan, 13 Jessie Kriel, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Jamba Ulengo, 10 Handré Pollard, 9 Francois de Klerk, 8 Tim Agaba, 7 Sikhumbuzo Notshe, 6 Jaco Kriel, 5 Lodewyk de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Malcolm Marx, 1 Trevor Nyakane.

Michael de Vries XV: 15 Warrick Gelant, 14 Seabelo Senatla, 13 Lionel Mapoe, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Lwazi Mvovo, 10 Handre Pollard, 9 Rudy Paige, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Siya Kolisi, 6 Marcell Coetzee, 5 Lodewyk de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Siyabonga Ntubeni, 1 Trevor Nyakane.

Andrew Duncan XV: 15, Warrick Gelant, 14 Ruan Combrink, 13 Rohan Janse Van Rensburg, 12 Damien de Allende, 11 Jamba Ulengo, 10 Pat Lambie, 9 Francois Hougaard, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Marcell Coetzee, 6 Jaco Kriel, 5 Lodewyk de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Malcolm Marx, 1 Steven Kitshoff.

Warren Fortune XV: 15 Jesse Kriel, 14 Warrick Gelant, 13 Daniel du Plessis, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Leolin Zass, 10 Handré Pollard, 9 Justin Phillips, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Thembelani Bholi, 6 Jaco Kriel, 5 Lodewyk de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Mbongeni Mbonambi, 1 Trevor Nyakane. 

Tauriq Ebrahim XV: 15 Jesse Kriel, 14 Lwazi Mvovo, 13 Howard Mnisi, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Jamba Ulengo, 10 Elton Jantjies, 9 Rudy Paige, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Thembelani Bholi, 6 Jaco Kriel, 5 Lodewyk de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Siyabonga Ntubeni, 1 Trevor Nyakane.

Our 2015 teams picked in 2011:

Jan De Koning XV: 15 Jaco Taute, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Juan De Jongh, 12 Frans Steyn, 11 Michael Killian, 10 Pat Lambie, 9 François Hougaard, 8 Schalk Burger (Captain), 7 Jacques Potgieter, 6 Heinrich Brüssow, 5 Juandré Kruger, 4 Jan Andre Marais, 3 Jannie Du Plessis, 2 Bismarck Du Plessis, 1 Tendai Mtawarira.

Len Kaplan XV: 15 Patrick Lambie, 14 Jan Serfontein, 13 Juan De Jongh, 12 Frans Steyn, 11 Paul Jordaan, 10 Johan Goosen, 9 François Hougaard, 8 Nick Köster, 7 Siya Kolisi, 6 Arno Botha, 5 Andries Bekker, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Coenie Oosthuizen, 2 Bismarck Du Plessis (Captain), 1 Tendai Mtawarira.

Michael De Vries XV: 15 Patrick Lambie, 14 Sibusiso Sithole, 13 Jaco Taute, 12 Frans Steyn, 11 JJ Engelbrecht, 10 Johan Goosen, 9 François Hougaard, 8 Joshua Strauss, 7 Siya Kolisi, 6 Heinrich Brüssow, 5 Juandré Kruger, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Coenie Oosthuizen, 2 Bismarck Du Plessis (Captain), 1 Tendai Mtawarira.

Paul Dobson XV: 15 Patrick Lambie, 14 Paul Jordaan, 13 Juan De Jongh, 12 Jan Serfontein, 11 Jaco Taute, 10 Johan Goosen, 9 François Hougaard, 8 Jacques Du Plessis, 7 Siya Kolisi, 6 Lappies Labuschagne, 5 Eben Etzebeth, 4 Quinn Roux, 3 Coenie Oosthuizen, 2 Chiliboy Ralepelle (Captain), 1 Steven Kitshoff.

Howie Kahn XV: 15 Jaco Taute, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Johann Sadie, 12 Frans Steyn, 11 Jan Serfontein, 10 Johan Goosen, 9 François Hougaard, 8 Nizaam Carr, 7 Siya Kolisi, 6 Heinrich Brüssow, 5 Andries Bekker, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Coenie Oosthuizen, 2 Bismarck Du Plessis, 1 Steven Kitshoff.

Timmy Hancox XV: 15 Patrick Lambie, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Jaco Taute, 12 Frans Steyn, 11 Paul Jordaan, 10 Johan Goosen, 9 François Hougaard, 8 Ryan Kankowski, 7 Schalk Burger (Captain), 6 Heinrich Brüssow, 5 Daniel Adongo, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Coenie Oosthuizen, 2 Bismarck Du Plessis, 1 Tendai Mtawarira.

Let us know what you think of our squads by leaving a comment. Who would you pick for 2019?
Compiled by Michael de Vries

 Some controversial selections, e.g. Johan Goosen.

The more I see 365's writers go at it, the less I think they know about rugby.

 That s not a proper line-up ,wheres Victor ??

 Pakie
The 365's writers are in strong competition with you, Mozart, DF and Ceradunce as to knowing less about rugby.

 Which incorrect picks did the panel have in common with Tokkie:
Taute,  Serfontein, Jordaan, Goosen, Jacques Potgieter, JJ Englebrecht, Pat Lambie, Liggies hahahaha labuschagne, Kitshoff
Dave had all those minus Jordaan, Jacques Potgieter and Liggies.....but add in Hougaard, Arno Botha, Quince hahahahaha Roux, Coenie, Joshua bwaaaaahahaha Strauss, Kolisi and Brussouw.
That's 10 out of 15 flops for Tokkie and a staggering (is this possible) 14 out of 15 flops for Dave. 
And who did I punt who wasn't there....Lambie (but at 15), Frans and Juan de Jongh for a missed player score of 3 out of 10.

So finally we have enough history to provide clear proof of who gets it right and who gets it wrong. Dave got 14 out of 15 wrong, Pervert got 10 out of 15 wrong....the sagacious mozart has punted  only 3 players who never made our 2015 team.

Game over.

 Mozart
The fact that Meyer made continuous bugger-ups in selections proved nothing of the sort.  The answer is that who should NOT have been in the 2015 WC squad and who failed in that squad:-
Kirchner, Mvovo, De Villiers, Steyn, Du Preez, Pienaar, Alberts, Burger, Matfield, Jannie du Plessis and Brits.
Because the above 10 were in Meyer's squad do not mean that they should have been there.  The much-hyped Du Preez looked good in the first game he played in and got progressively worse in every subsequent game - he looked good because he was better than the desperately poor Pienaar.   
The only "failure" I feel sorry about him - he does not deserve to be on that list - was Burger.  He was used as a stand-in flyhalf - a role he is not suited for - but his ball possession losses were critical in lost games in the tournament.   
Game over.    

 Pakie calle d it.

Pakie did call it.  The 365 writers are an incredibly naive bunch. But then Tokkie/Dave were very,very close to their views. If we take these two clowns as examples of the ignorant Bok fan, one has to ask.....is it the chicken or the ...er...egg.
Are fools like Tokkie/Dave influenced by our writers, simply aping what they read. Or are the writers just mouthpieces for dumb public opinion as represented by the Dave/ Tokkie nonsense.

Either way both groups have been dead wrong and will continue to be dead wring.

 Mozart
Who was dead wrong about the performance of players in this world cup?  Nobody got it more wrong than you did and that is a fact.  You adherence to has-beens and never-has-beens has been the real proof of total stupidity.  
One has to wonder where you are going to turn to in future when it comes to dolt selection.  Fransie and De Jongh must be near to the top of your idiocy list.     

Huh one would swear that we had just won the WC, the RC and were sitting at number 1 right now......had my picks been made we would be all of the above. So no, I never get my picks wrong.
I hope like hell you are not expecting us to use useless Meyer as the measure
My early pick for 2019:
15. Jessie Kriel14. Ulengo13. de Allende12. Serfontein11. Kolbe10. Pollard9. Faf1. Kitshoff2. Marx3. Malherbe4. Etzebeth5. Lood6. Jaco Kriel7. Jacques du Plessis8. Arno Botha

Gosh it's old 14/15 picking again.

In your new team Ulengo is the new Senatla, Steppie is back, Faf is the new Reinach, Malherbe is the new Marcel, Jaco flavor of the day Kriel is the new Coetzee, Jacque du Plessis is back to being a  flank...and the presumably detoxed Arno Botha will capture his 2012 form in 2019.
Wagon wheel keep turning.....wagon wheel!  I'm guessing none of these players will make it.

Of Dave's 14 players he got wrong for 2015.... all of them are young enough to play in 2019, in fact most will be in their primes.

But here's the thing....of the 14 he got wrong, all of whom should be in their prime for 2019.....only two return Step and laughably Arno Botha. So even by his own admission he got 12 of the 14 wrong.

Game, settaaaaa and match!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Geez you are thick....but no surprise there given you think Meyer's sides are the measure......bwhaaahaaaaa about as clever as telling us Matfield is better than Lood
Clueless
Serf has always been in my mix, 11 try Ulengo gets the nod bet you dont have a clue who he is
Reinach has never been my first choice
Malherbe and Marcel are par....Malherbe's awesome WC making Jannie look like a pretender elevates him to starter
du Plessis has been my 7 no return there
No Arno's awesome 2015 CC form works for me
Meyer is the measure though......bwhaaaahaaaaa

Nope of your 14 players....12 are dropped....it's a wipe out. Shows you had no clue for 2015 and you will have no clue for 2019. Just an endless list of new players who perform against other CC level players...and you project into tests with no regard for the level step up.
Naive, stupid, mindless stuff.....aping the Paul Dobsons of rugby. No insights, no sense of strengths and weaknesses. Worthless repetition.

And Queer....Fransie and de Jongh aren't near the top of my list....they are my list. I dont have 10 players I championed who didnt make the grade like you. Furthermore Frans would have made a big difference to our WC. Frans' strength, vision and huge boot....vs Kriel's JJ like tackling and invisible presence. No contest. 

Wake the fuck up......my picks were dropped by who exactly......Meyer? The guy that has not won a single title, that has only beaten the Kiwi's once in 4 years, that took us to 5 in the rankings, that had first time losses to Argentina and then insultingly to Japan.......and you have the audacity to use the words naive, stupid, mindless stuff.....no insight, no sense of strengths and weaknesses.......based on what exactly huh......my choices being dropped by Meyer.....are you really this stupid?
Moz try wake up man, if Meyer had been an all conquering coach and dropped my choices, you might actually have something to work with, instead you are looking more and more stupid by the day......you really are smarting after the way Lood has embarrassed you......its really got under your skin
By the way......I have not paid much attention......who are my 14 players
Meyer is the measure.....bwhaaaaaahaaaaaa......priceless stuff

 Mozart - you Dofdoos
The two players listed by you as top on your list are the worst sign of the fact you know bugger-all about rugby.  Two players that have been piss-poor for years and definitely out of any top rugby.
The only thing that may yet save De Jongh in the Super Rugby team of the Stormers is the fact that De Allende is going to play 7's and they do not have a strong enough 12 - they do have Johnny Kotze at 13 - twice the player De Jongh will ever be.  De Jongh has a minimal chance of playing at 12 for the Stormers - he has no chance of getting the  no 13 spot.
Fat Fransie si the worst center in any SA Super 15 team during the past three years.  It was Plumtree who said that Steyn is no center.  His record and stats proved that again and again.  Useless, slow and clueless - that is your Fransie on par with "Penalty Turn Around" Matfield.           

 Well for you ou Tokkie, given your preferences,  they are all dof aren't they? Such a tell when you use that as your insult....bent as a Gareth Bale penalty.

 Sapp is so stupid...he has moved on from anything to do with HM to his 2019 choices which he stupidly gave us, which deep six all but 2 of the 14 players he has been punting the last 4 years. It's your internal logic that has destroyed you chump. You have actually taken HM out of the discussion.
You two foul mouthed morons are toast....game over.

 The foul-mouthed idiot calling people ridiculous names is toast.   Wjay is really encouraging is that by 2019 we will have to have a tam not consisting of the reputation players lacking performance requirements preferred by you.  
After the RWC Meyer said he was impressed by the younger players in his squad - not a word about the older ones - and I think the experience gained by him in the WC opened his eyes to the total uselessness of some of the players he thought would be useful 
We need performing players - not reputation players and that is where our team became unstuck against Japan.   Remember he fielded the most experienced team ever playing in tests and the result was as was to be expected - a real disaster.  Meyer did not try that stunt again in the subsequent tests.   The unfortunate part was that he did have Matfield in the semi on the bench.   The latter managed to bugger-up our chances in that test comprehensively.    
The fact which you refuse to recognize is that the Springbok team will exclude most of the over 30 players - especially those who have been past their sell-by dates years ago.
The players you supported all along are virtually all out out and you will have ti start thinking about future players and forget about the useless ones like Fat Fransie - who is not even mentioned as a center in SA anymore.  He would have been the worst choice ever if Me yer considered him for the WC squad.           

Oh Tokkie the wiorst choice by a mile was Stephanie....totally out of his depth. A sympathy choice gone horribly wrong...and your avatar is a reminder Tok.  

 No he was not - the worst choice by a mile was "Penalty Turnaround"  Matfield - followed closely by the useless Alberts and "Yellow Card" Jannie.     

 10/15 how would you know..huh?

 I would know - since I am looking objectively at players and when they bugger up badly I see it and when they did well I also see it too.  No prejudiced BS.  The names allocated happened and that is a fact as well.  

And yet you were punting 10 flops in your team....good intentions aren't enough....and you don't even have good intentions.  

What 10 fl ops did I punt stupid?

Moffie wake up you keep banging on about selections expecting us to take your crap seriously knowing full well you are using ignorant Meyer as the measure....how stupid are you huh?
Wake up old man....is there no limit to how much of a fool you like to display yourself as?
Meyer the measure.....bwhaaahaaaaa 

 Fransie would have done better this RWC, playing Meyers outdated kak game plan. Was always a good crashballer. ..our Fransie that is.