Best post war Bok team

Hard to say how good Craven, Osler and Dai Williams were. So pre WW2 is a bit of a mystery. But I actually saw the 56 Bok team play a match on their return against a selection of the next best and I saw the Boks famously beat the ABs in 1960 at Ellis Park. My biggest gap was the eighties when no Bok rugby was available overseas…but fortunately we have plenty of videos.

So here’s my team:

HO de Villiers

Ray Mordt

Danie Gerber

Jean de Villiers

Bryan Habana

Handre Pollard

Joost van der Westhuizen

The Beast

Malcolm Marx

Hannes Marais

Eben Etzebeth

Victor Matfield

Schalk Burger

Jan Ellis

Duane Vermeulen

……

The only players who aren’t world class in that team are Pollard and Hannes Marais….two positions we have always struggled to find real talent, flyhalf and tighthead.

Hannes Marais was our 60s tighthead….mobile and a clinical scrummager. I can’t think of anybody better, but not a ‘great’.

Good team Moffie.

I'd have Frik du Preez and Hennie Muller in there in a heartbeat and there's no way Handre Pollard has done enough to be re garded as the greatest post war Springbok flyhalf. For me it would be between my head and my heart . . . my head saying Naas Botha and my heart saying Henry Honiball.

Andre Joubert would also be my fullback, no question and I'd have Andre Venter ahead of Schalk Burger . . . but that's not to say Schalk isn't a worthy selection.

Whatever disagreements we may have, yours is a lot closer to my idea of an all time Springbok XV than Matfield's ridiculous effort.

By the way, my memories of Hannes Marais were when he captained the Springboks against the 1974 British Lions when we got absolutely clobbered and he was poor. I think Cobus Visagie was our best post war tighthead. Mof Myburgh if we're talking all time.

Cannot fault those selections but 2 players I believe could challenge those relevant positions are Hennie Muller at No 8 and Keith Oxlee at 10.

You can't say Hennie Muller was a better #8 than Duane Vermeulen. Duane is bigger, stronger, faster and more skilled. That's because man has evolved. The only way you can compare players from different eras is to measure the extent that they dominated their contemporaries and their contributions to their side's success.

Using those criteria, Hennie Muller is not just the greatest Springbok #8 of all time, he' s got a strong claim to be the greatest #8 of all time. Die Windhond!

We grew up on the famous Windhond story. He was supposedly as fast as a wing and the possible proof came during the 53 Wallaby tour. Their sprinter wing Garth Jones had a start and try as he might Hennie couldn’t catch him, but it was a close run thing.

‘The Springboks came to Newlands after 10 successive Test victories. The 10th had been the first of the series against the touring Wallabies when the Springboks won 25-3 at Ellis Park. It seemed more of the same at Newlands two weeks later when the Springboks led 14-5. But then came an amazing fightback and Hennie Muller chasing Garth Jones who scored the try that won the match 18-14 for Australia. The Springboks won the next two Tests – 18-8 and 22-9.

Again at the end of this Test the Springboks carried Wallabies from the famous ground.

At the end of the match, there was a picture of Hennie Muller, gaunt, exhausted and distraught. Rather like Jean de Villiers in Brighton 62 years later.’

I remember the news clips at the local bioscope screening Test hilites often months after the event & a rampant Hennie Muller countering a defender with a 'facial handoff'' as he sped downfield on a dusty highveld.

"I think Cobus Visagie was our best post war tighthead"

A pity he didn't play more tests...generational talent lost to the Bokke way too soon ...

Odd given we have Os, the Beast and Piet Spiere to choose from at loosehead, that no great tightheads have emerged.

Mark Andrews in place of Victor Matfield.

Gary Teichmann at #8.

Honeyball at #10.

You almost got it right Moz.

Mine:

1. Mtawarira
2. Smit (c)
3. Visagie
4. Matfield
5. Botha
6. Brussow
7. Burger (Though call, but there has to be a spot for Burger somewhere)
8. Vermeulen (This is another tough call)
9. Du Preez
10. James (Talent); M Steyn (Production)
11. Habana
12. F Steyn
13. Gerber
14. Undecided
15. le Roux

Many of those changes like Bakkies, Du Preez, Frans and Willie were my alternates.  Hard to explain HO de Villiers to those who never saw him as a 20 year old….another great player like Skinstad who was never quite the same after a knee injury.

I found the loosies the hardest to pin down. I think we've had some of our best depth there. Quite stunning really that we have the trio we suffer under Erasputin. I have seen some videos of HO, but that was too far before my time for me to fully appreciate. I'd also say that lock and scrum half have been other areas of immense depth of the decades. However, our recent stock of 9s are truly abysmal. I had a very hard time pinning down 14. Some haven't taken to Willie, and I initially wasn't too happy with his performances in 2013. He has, however, grown into a legend for me. Joubert can't bring to the modern game what Willie can. Percy was fantastic as well, and so too Kirchner, but Willie stands head and shoulders above the rest. What a shame he has been wasted under Erasputin. His production fell off a cliff from 2018 onwards. So many great names never achieving their potential because of bad selections and coaching. It looks like Pollard will go the same way, and after last season I fear for Eben. These players have so much more to give. 

Willie proved again on the YE tour he is the only creative player in the Bok backline set up. Not that creativity is really necessary if all you want to do is box kicks.

Frans was good in 2018. I'd go so far as to say very, very good. Not the greatest scrummager, but solid in that department that year. He has been quite poor before that year and thereafter. 

Moz I know it is difficult to accept that players from other provinces besides WP also have rugby playing skills to you Capetonians.

But they do exist.

Cheers.

Malherbe had one solid year, the rest were belly flops. He was looking off the pace in 2019, but looks even worse since 2021. He isn't even close to being a top 15 Bok 3 at this stage. 

Arthur I’ll accept there are good players outside WP….but in Durban? Come now, you can’t be serious.

Unsung Dave? Thank heavens, let’s not get so Woke that we sing songs to tightheads. In my view Malherbe’s finest moment came in the goal line stand against England in the WC final. Other than the superb Mostert,  Malherbe probably did the most to prevent a crucial try.

"Arthur I’ll accept there are good players outside WP….but in Durban? Come now, you can’t be serious."

Some excellent players in Durbs!

Eben

Kolisi

Thomas

Bongi

Boeta Chamberlain 

Kok

Hahaha…agreed!

Since when is Kolisi excellent? 

I rated Dawie de Villiers at scrum half

And

Piet Visagie at fly half.

They were an absolute pain in the arse for our AB's in 1970.   

In fact that 1970 Springbok side is one of the the best I have seen our AB's play against.

God they were a agreat team.

I would rate them the best team I have ever seen the AB's play in my 65 years.   

Dawie was at his best when he was young….he had a brilliant break from the base.

Thanks Moz and DbD.

Got your message.

"Thanks Moz and DbD.

Got your message."

All in jest AJ, the Sharks are actually my second team...sin ce the days of Hugh-Reece Edwards and before....Bizarre how players move in between franchises these days.

You mentioned Gerber.

Best centre I have seen.

Rob Louw was a great flanker too 

But I think the best that the boks have had are Jan Ellis and Piet Greyling.

Well I regard them the best that the AB's have come up against.

With the mention of some of these players it is scary.

Such great springboks who gave the AB's absolute hell and that is the way it should be.