Billy Beaumont’s take on the Bok WC final

I repeat Mike...in a debate don’t ask a question if you don’t know the answer.

Mpzart

Sorry I do remember the De Al;ende tries - I wanted a list of when De Villiers scored tries on the period 2012 to 2015 - where you mentioned that he scored 8 tries in the 37 matches he played in.   Can you please help out on that one?    .    

Mpzart

Sorry I do remember the De Al;ende tries - I wanted a list of when De Villiers scored tries on the period 2012 to 2015 - where you mentioned that he scored 8 tries in the 37 matches he played in.   Can you please help out on that one?    .    

Mpzart

Sorry I do remember the De Al;ende tries - I wanted a list of when De Villiers scored tries on the period 2012 to 2015 - where you mentioned that he scored 8 tries in the 37 matches he played in.   Can you please help out on that one?    .    

Those are the de Villiers tries above, the list starting with England 2012.

I was never the biggest Jean fan, but to talk him down like this is simply ignorant. He was an elite talent. I highlight the word talent. He was talented as a junior, and carried that into senior level, at all levels of the game. There's simply no comparison, Jean was more physical, tougher, braver, more competitive, more technically gifted, had better awareness and tactical understanding than Damian. There's literally nothing Damian does better, a total flake in contact and passive. Jean was one of the most tactically aware Boks of all time, and a key contributor of the game planning team. Good leader. Damian is a poor man's Olivier. Ende. 

Stupid Kindergarten Imbecile

I did not take De Villiers down at all - I justa sk Mozart questions about tries scored,  Your ignorance and attacks on De Allende is as stupid as only you can be,.  Jean had a career-ending injury in 2014 and was then nursed back to play in the WC of 2015.   He played one game in the Tri-Nations  against Argentina in Durban and contributed nothing  in that game - which SA lost badly and then was picked for the Japan Disaster - which really ended his career,  That is why I said that he was not really supposed to be selected in the 2015 RWC - it was looking for a disaster - which his selection turned out to be.

I always was a De Villiers admirer and still is - but I am a realist and knows enough about rugby to see what went wrong under the clueless Meyer .  But what else could one expect from the worthless coach we had  in Meyer?      

Mozart 

Willie tried to make a break between Ford and Farrell - but could not outrun either of the two,  There was as a result of the real situation no space for De Allende to run into to be beside Willie to receive the ball.   Your theory is piss-poor BS story as always expected from you.    The half-break  - and that it came down to was doomed from the start and  all De Allende could do.

Your pretext that it was a try-scoring opportunity was totally ridiculous.   There neve was a chance that the ball handling in that case would  lead to anything,   There were only two potential try-scoring attacks in the first half of the WC final - one was destriyed by Willie 0- the opther by Mostert,   Why not write a saga by those two?     

All Dud had to do was run round the open side of Farrell as he was turning. The reason there was no space was he was trotting right behind him.

Allende is a very dumb man. Back in 2015 approx when SBW was the standard for inside centres Dud actually offloaded quite well copying SBW. Then he went through a fetching phase. Then in 2019 he had a kicking phase. 

All programmed, never as a reaction to the opportunity....never featured at the same time. If you had the kicking Allende, the fetching Allende disappeared.

That’s why he scores so few tries. He isn’t goal oriented, he is captured by process. This guy could tractor and reset with an open goal line a metre in front of him.

With a brain he could have been a competitive inside centre....sadly that’s a genetic bridge too far.

Pollard said De Allende has a brilliant rugby brrain - you said he is dumb.   The fact is you are prejudiced and therefore inventing things that never happened.    You actually lied about the incident by claiming it as a try-scoring opportunity and that it happened in the English  22 - which was blatantly false,

There was a real try-scoring opportunity earlier in the first half,   De Allende drew in the defenders and the ball went out to Willie - with four Springboks  outside  of him and only two defenders ibn front of him and instead of passing the ball Willie spilled it,    That was a virtually certain try-scoring opportunity destroyed by Willie.  .Why no comment on that one?

Then also why no comment on Mostert spilling the ball in another very dangerous and  real try-scoring opportunity in the 41st minute of the  first half,   Why no comment on that one?   IK - I forget - according to you the replacement ensured  the  Springboks win since Mostert was a key to the Springbok defense in he four minutes the English launched atatck after attack and ould not get through,   In that period you referred to - however, the key defender was Malherbe who ensured that the Vunipola' could not make any progress in that period,    Beaumont saw ot too and gave Malherbe credit for the effort but you spoke kak as per normal,   , Mostert rol in the final was minimal -  fact.     Why no clarification after you spread BS on site?                   

Allende did nothing except trot behind the move....he was confused. A smart alert centre would have sprinted round Farrell who was turning and been there to receive the offload.

This is not an unusual thing to do.....it’s the normal thing to do. When your inside partner goes through the inside gap....you don’t try to run through the same frigging gap. You take the outside gap as well....taking advantage of your marker having to turn.

High School stuff....no I’m wrong....we would have got this right in Under 12 rugby.

As for Mostert spilling the ball why did I not report on it.....because it never happened. Here are the ESPN stats. Mostert made 15 tackles, no tackles missed and he spilled no balls....zero....nada.

The level of dishonesty on this string is hilarious.

I have had the privilege of attending the 07 and the 19 finals. The last time I felt as relaxed at a live game 10 min in was the 42-0 pom game in 07 pools. For me to a man the Boks were outstanding. It is truly childish to sit back and criticise players for not playing a perfect game in a dynamic situation that only one of them had experienced before. Lood is my least favourite Bok I am sorry his final was cut short. In the end it is a game where all the moving parts have to work in unison. You can argue till you are blue in the face but each including those off the field played their parts as directed by Rassie perfectly. Congrats to the English supporters for being so humble in defeat. 

In the 2007 Eng vs Boks pool match, the score was 0-36...

Thanks Draad, was mixing it up with the 42-6 game at Twickenham the following year which had the same points difference.  ??

He couldn’t see him, because he doesn’t have eyes in the back of his head. He ran exactly where no ball carrier could see him and from his body language was not interested in the next pass. The space was in the outside line.....as it almost always is.

The dead obvious fact is he should have accelerated when he saw Willie  breaking and rounded Farrell into buckets of space....instead he meandered inside at half pace into the traffic.

As for Mostert’s tackling stats, I saw no missed tackles nor did the ESPN stats team.....I’ll stick with that.

As per normal I asked some real questions about the poor play of Willie and Mostert during real try-scoring opportunities and not an imagined one - but no answer as expected,

Instead Mostert acid clearly miss one tackle and let go of the legs of another one ileaving completion of the tackle to other players,,    It shows some inaccuracy odd the ESPN stats.   Luckily evaluation of performances is done based on comprehensive match reports and not on the sketchy ESPN stats - which Mozart chose to use selectively,    

I said that ESPN stats can at best indicate tendencies in platers if taken over a series and that let to Mostert being dropped from the starting line-up due to his inability to make open-field  tackles and the poor quality of tackles he made. in the series,    Full match reports will inevitably deal with that aspect,

By the way - what is the meaning of "process tackles" and why do the weak  inadequate tackles made by Mostert not be regarded as process tackles, while the tackles made by Mozart's pet  hate players are :process tackles,      That shows that  Mozart's  player evaluations are totally worthless.     

Let me help.....I call them process tackles when the defender anchors at first or second spot in the defensive line and stops the runner who is simply trying to move the ball a metre or so and reset. Those tackles can be made by any forward who is assigned to do that by the team.

Mostert, Dud, Lomp all male lots of process tackles. The difference Mostert brings can be seen in the goal line stand....he is tackling on both sides of the ruck, reading the attack and using that skill to be in the right place at the right time.  

Tell you what Dave....post your time stamp and I will  look at it again.

Minute 29.22 B Vunipola bursts out of Dud Toit’s grasp to offload. 

Minute20.22 Mostert brings Tuilagi to ground with a difficult tackle from behind battered by 2 other Bok tacklers ....not a missed tackle his motion takes him forward and before he can get up he is pushed back down.

Minute 30.04 Vunipola stands in the Dud tackle

Minute 30.14 Curry is smashed down by Mostert

Minute 30.35 Mostert goes low and Malherbe high to stop Vunipola dead 3 metres out...the Mostert low tackle was crucial to stop him powering over.

Minute 30.55 Dud makes his first conclusive tackle of the sequence

Minute 30.56 Ford is marked by Pollard...throws a dummy and steps inside him and Mostert who brings him down,  as he is falling Ford passes.

Minute 30.15 ...Billy V again....’he is sent back’ by Mostert who is the high man this time. No offload in that tackle!.

Minute 32 brilliant out wide tackles by Willie and Etzebeth on Tuilagi. Also by Am on Daly.

.........

So what do we conclude. Mostert with 5 critical tackles during the stand was our most involved defender. Dud made one good tackle but allowed 2 offloads in weak over the top tackles.

The biggest tackles close to the line were by Mostert/Malherbe and Vermeulen who literally lifted BV off the deck in one charge, how strong is that man!

I think every Bok made a tackle in the sequence except Dud Allende.

Dimness at it again'- his rugby knowledge is really non\existent.

Minute 20.22 -  Tuilagi never handled the ball in that minute neither did Mostert tackle anyone,   How did you manage yo find that non\existent tackle?

Minute 29.22 -   Did it really happened like Mozart   describes ir? - No  it did not.- Vunuipola did n0ot burst out of any Du Toit tackle,     

Minute 30.04  -  Du Toit  stopped Vunipola before him reaching the gain line and he did not bust the tackle.  Vunipola managed to off-load the ball to his brother who also got stopped before reaching the gain line.

Minute 30.14  - the tackle was made by Kolisi.

Minute 30.35  -  Mostert tried to grab Vunipola and he went forward in the process with Mostert loosing hold on Vunipola's legs - that represents a missed tackle.   The effective tackle was made by Malherbe  

Minute 30.56  - Mostert did not bring anybody down and totally missed the tackle.   There is no way that Mostert was not run through a feeble tackle attempt on Ford.

The other incident involving both Mostert and Marx on Billy Vunipola the fact is that case iss that Marx  is physically very strong and a hard tackler.   The strength in that case came from Marx - not Mostert.    

Mostert makes tackles in which player go forward - he cannot stop a player from doing that,  Mostert effectively missed two of the five tackles Mozart credits him with and the only player mentioned in that episode was Malherbe who made more and very effective tackles pushiong the players back too.   

And the idiot did not see there \were attacks by backline players - of the 25 two involve backline players and there were one very effective tackle made by De Allemnde on Lawes that Mozart obviously missed totally,   I agree with Dave - Mozart idea about tackles are far removed from reality,      

Now tell me why did Willie and Mostert buggered up two very real try-scoring opportunities in the first half and what is your imagined excuses in those two cases?  Dies Willie not have a pace problem coupled to poor passing and ball skills, eg

*    the knock-on with am open tryline in front of him in the semi-final

*     one forward and two very poor passes - both to Kobe in the final.      

  .       

In both cases the player hit the deck and never took one step forward...tackle made. Confirmed by ESPN which undoubtedly made a decision on on these tackles. And they were open field tackles on backs.....best I recall no other forward stopped a back.....because Mostert ranged widely taking down the threat as it developed.

Actually my mistake Etzebeth took down Tuilagi on the left wing. And Dud Allende did actually manage a tackle on Lawes. Of course he missed two of his other 8 tackle attempts, a number only exceeded by Faf.

Lots of insults....I’ll ignore them given the source. Tuilagi was brought to the deck, he had to release the ball. Should have been penalized.

Ford was going down after contact with Mostert and passed the ball before he hit the deck 

Those were tough tackles close to the line. If Mostert missed either of them it was a likely try. You should be thanking him, not trying to vilify him. 

No worries Dave.....life is pretty bleak at the moment. By the way, Mostert wouldn’t be my starting lock....Etzebeth and Snyman would be my choices.

Nonetheless I think he was a key defender in the final and those were two key moments. Pulling down Tuilagi from behind is no mean feat. And the tackle on Ford was akin to an ankle tap as Ford wrong footed our defence....we don’t say a player missed an ankle tap when the player is brought to ground.

In any case we won’t agree on this one.

Mozart

The thing is that if  what happened in the case of the two "tackles"  in reality  missed by Mostert  was done the same way by Du Toit you would have written books on site about how poor a tackler the latter is,.

There is one thing I have learned throughout the years about your match description - it is to accept that it is so far removed from what actually happen in the games that it is better to check and recheck what you wrote, because in the main your takes are infkuenced by your pet hate of some players