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FORUM / RUGBY /  Bok scrum coach Pieter De Viliers queries scrum calls

Bok scrum coach Pieter De Viliers queries scrum calls

Started by Beeno127 REPLIES757 VIEWS· 10 Aug 2015, 19:39
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
10 Aug 2015, 19:39
#1
10 Aug 2015, 19:39#1
While dunces here are writing off Koch dispite a number of great scrumming displays Ex French internation prop De Villiers has taken up the chllenge re illegal Argies scrumming once again. Why is it they try this against us and not Oz and Nz. Answer they know they can get away with it.  Boks simply are not allowed a fair deal Ex Supersport

The Springboks are to approach World Rugby Refereeing High Performance Manager Joel Jutge to bring some clarity on some of the calls made against them at the scrums in the 37-25 loss to the Pumas in Durban at the weekend.

The Boks were repeatedly penalised by referee Romain Poite at scrum time, and scrum coach Pieter de Villiers admitted that he was confused by most of the calls. Certainly it looked from the sidelines that it was Argentine loosehead Marcos Ayerza, and not the South African tighthead Vincent Koch, that was scrumming illegally. (Now Beeno without even seeing the game had the nous to suspect foul play rather than dumping all over Koch and co!)

Although the Bok management have stayed consistent with their post-match line that they will not look for excuses for an allround performance that was clearly off par and a cause for concern, the scrumming calls played a big part in preventing the Boks from being able to establish any sort of platform and physical parity against their opponents.

“It was a very frustrating day for us, and I was confused about the calls that were being made,” said De Villiers.

“We need to get some clarity on some calls, and we will talk to Joel Jutge about it. Not one of our scrums went to completion, so it was difficult to get a technical note on our scrumming. I thought Vincent did really well in his first scrum but then the call went against us and after that it was a struggle.”

It was Koch’s first experience of playing against a northern hemisphere opponent in the sense that Ayerza plays his club rugby in Europe, and De Villiers left no doubt he felt that Ayerza’s bind was illegal.

Vincent was up against a very experienced prop from the northern hemisphere who is well schooled and versed in the dark art of scrum manipulation. We need to work on that, and Vincent is very keen to have another crack at it as well.”

It seems likely the Boks who played in Durban might get a chance to atone in the international friendly against the Pumas in Buenos Aires on Saturday, and it appears De Villiers is backing Koch to set the record straight. As it was clear the refereeing calls were going to continue to go against him, Koch was replaced for the second half at Kings Park.

“That game would have been an invaluable experience for Vincent and while I am not making the selections I do think it would be fair to get a chance to atone and put the record straight. The guys who came on in the second half did well too, and I thought we were the better scrum by the end, but unfortunately penalties and free kicks kept going against us so we couldn’t get any momentum.”

De Villiers said the short turn-around period between the two games would make getting it right before Buenos Aires a challenging proposition, but he was confident that it could be managed.

Apart from the confusion over the calls that went against us, we also just didn’t pitch physically, and we have to get that right. We are not known as a team that doesn’t pitch physically and on Saturday we need to pitch. We were going to rotate selections for this game but now I think, given the last result, there are players who need to show us that last week was an aberration and that they can play at the highest level.”

Its amazing how guys like bissie who were outstanding against Oz and Nz are now no good.

Man its a laugh a minute here. Ou card cant see Allende's talent and Lambie is totally useless. Snapster says Labbers at 107 kg is to small but wee kolisi at 103/5 kg is fine. Moz not appreciating Lood and ou maaaikie not thinking Burger is any good. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

I do hope all the oaks get a grip soon. 


 


BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
10 Aug 2015, 19:58
#2
10 Aug 2015, 19:58#2
 The folk supporting Jannie cant seem to understand that illegal scrumming also undid Koch. Now why is that? Is there possibly/perhaps a degree of bias here. Others just jump to conclusions on the showing of one match with never a second thought - assuming there had been one in the first place.  Toys go flying out th e window!
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
10 Aug 2015, 20:05
#3
10 Aug 2015, 20:05#3
 
Has anyone ever told you that you have a cowardly nature?

 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
10 Aug 2015, 20:43
#4
10 Aug 2015, 20:43#4
 No one to my face CC.
Great work by De Villiers. Lets hope it bears fruit!!!



BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
10 Aug 2015, 20:44
#5
10 Aug 2015, 20:44#5
 No one to my face CC.


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Aug 2015, 22:31
#6
10 Aug 2015, 22:31#6
 Moz read and learn 
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,282 posts
10 Aug 2015, 23:21
#7
10 Aug 2015, 23:21#7
For a tighthead prop it is a big challenge facing the Argentinian scrum as a first starting test. Maybe start from the bench this time again
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Aug 2015, 23:44
#8
10 Aug 2015, 23:44#8

Now we didn't know what to expect... after there are so many videos out there about the Bargie scrumming last year. This is either the apogee of stupidity or the nadir of dishonesty. Koch knew exactly what he was going to face and got crushed. If he hadn't had episodes like this in the S15 and against NZ two weeks ago for heaven sake, maybe we could pretend it's all Poite's fault.

 

 

OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
11 Aug 2015, 00:10
#9
11 Aug 2015, 00:10#9
Koch took one for Malherbe on Saturday who would have been similarly worked over, legally or illegally.
Malherbe needs to get the start this weekend and show what he can do.

DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
11 Aug 2015, 00:11
#10
11 Aug 2015, 00:11#10
W e will see in the return fixture, but if these things - as Mozart correctly pointed out - keep happening, there is obviously a problem. It's going to be much harder for a tighthead to hide away his weaknesses like a Lambie hiding in the pocket. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Aug 2015, 00:42
#11
11 Aug 2015, 00:42#11

Yep I agree Matey, Koch should be on Malherbe's and Marcel's Christmas card list. He got the Ayerza gift.

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,282 posts
11 Aug 2015, 00:45
#12
11 Aug 2015, 00:45#12
Good point Oimatey. The Boks got totally worked in the scrums even more than last year. They just got out muscled regardless of the laws
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
11 Aug 2015, 07:04
#13
11 Aug 2015, 07:04#13
 Card I dont read much of of your longer posts as they are very tiresome. No paragraghs etc. The havw the feel of just going on and in. What is escaping the oaks is that neither oz nor nz had too much troyble with the Argies. Also Kich has git the better if these down under props in the Super 15. Also due to illegal scrumming last year Beast Bisissie and Jannie got pulverised. Koch was very obviously the victim of illegal scruming and De Villiers reckons Koch could prove that in a fair contest he willbe fine. Just a long list crooks against the Boks. We should have won both tests against oz and nz and then iof course a very different attitude would have.prevailed Against the Argies. Even the bent Roman woould have been overcome!
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Aug 2015, 13:47
#14
11 Aug 2015, 13:47#14

So according to some of you ex International tighthead and a good one at that, does not know what he is talking about and you clowns do?


Funny I made the call on the scrums before the de Villiers article - why because I know what I am talking about when it comes to scrums unlike some on here.  

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
11 Aug 2015, 17:56
#15
11 Aug 2015, 17:56#15
 I'm no scrimmaging pro,  but the first TH against him,  he got lifted and there was something odd about it.  I will have a look at it again.  In most of the others the both him and the LH were angling in,  which normally means the LH is scrumming in. He got tested in a street fight and was outsmarted.  He will learn from that experience.  Jannie hasn't actually  covered himself in glory against the argies in the past. I'm hopeful that this can be corrected and soon.  This is our best prospect at 3 in many years,  so I'm hoping his critics are totally wrong.  That being said,  irrespective of the legality,  it was a big problem and it raises  a major question around his suitability as test TH. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Aug 2015, 00:23
#16
12 Aug 2015, 00:23#16
The Bargies tend to do their  talking on the field...none of this will matter a whit when the first scrum goes down. And this will be in Bargieland.. I hope we have focused on the fix not on the denials. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
12 Aug 2015, 00:33
#17
12 Aug 2015, 00:33#17
 Ah so Pieter de Villiers is speaking crap then...what the hell does he know??
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Aug 2015, 00:38
#18
12 Aug 2015, 00:38#18
Oh boy...what a sucker. De Villiers is spinning an abysmal performance and you are eating it up because it fits your story line. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
12 Aug 2015, 00:41
#19
12 Aug 2015, 00:41#19
No I happen to agree with his calls and made them before his article was published on here. He is spot on - no spin 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Aug 2015, 01:33
#20
12 Aug 2015, 01:33#20
 Dave
You are debating things with voids here.   The case in point is that Jannie is the player with the worst record in scrumming in both tests and Super 15 over the past year - he was as bad against the Argentinians last year as he was in nearly every game he played in subsequently - but that is ignored.  His performance in the game outside of scrumming is non-existent, but that is ignored.   
Jannie showed every sign that his age is catching up with him.   He is lauded for the Aussie test and claimed that he was dominant in scrumming - but what is conveniently forgotten is that the only scrum in the first half against Australia where they were dominated was when Jannie was temporarily replaced by Malherbe.
So the next step was to spin a yarn about scrumming in the second half and blame Malherbe for the collapsing of the scrumming when the real culprit was Van der Merwe - who was penalized in scrumming.   The truth counts for very little when you deal with some members - with them the truth is extremely valuable, it must not be abused by over-use.
And then we have the comedian on site - who blames Lambi and De Allende for what went wrong in the scrumming against Argentina.  Very funny - so the only thing anybody can do is to LHAO.
 

   
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Aug 2015, 03:23
#21
12 Aug 2015, 03:23#21
Funny when Ayerza put Jannie under pressure last year....not a peep about illegal scrumming. Just verbal diarrhea about how bad he was. Now after Ayerza and his sub destroy Koch and Malherbe, they are accused of scrumming illegally.
Give me a break.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Aug 2015, 04:12
#22
12 Aug 2015, 04:12#22
 Who says that Ayerza scrumming was illegal?   Certainly some do, but they are the regular excuse finders.  Illegal scrumming is normally penalized - but it really did not happen last year in two tests and in the latest one as well.
Lets give Jannie a break for the first Argentine test scrumming last year.  The fact is that Gurthro Steenkamp was even worse than Beast was on Saturday - so lets record that as an excuse.   In the second test last year the Beast - Du Plessis combination was nearly as bad as the Beast-Koch combination on Saturday.
I do not think Koch was up to standard on Saturday, but to demonize Koch and totally cut out the problems Jannie had last year against the same player is not the thing to do.   The problem is to find a real resolution, not the finger pointing exercise now on the go.  The way to go is not to repeat a lie about Malherbe though and make a statement that holds no water.
      

 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Aug 2015, 04:25
#23
12 Aug 2015, 04:25#23
Malherbe was poor against Oz. Koch was poor against NZ and Argie. Van der Merwe was poor against Argie.
Jannie was excellent against Oz and NZ.
Those are the facts based on recent form, the standard you so often trumpet. I would say its that time again....game, set and match.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Aug 2015, 05:08
#24
12 Aug 2015, 05:08#24
 Herr Goebbels 
Why do you repeat your BS.  Jannie was average against Australia and New Zealand - the only real problem for Australia was when Malherbe came on in the first half when Jannie went off for a test and the scrum went backwards at pace.  The problem which you constantly lied about was the problem arose when Van der Merwe  came on and the loosehead side of the scrum became a total problem - so you assigned the blame to Malherbe.  Those are facts - game set and match.     
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Aug 2015, 05:15
#25
12 Aug 2015, 05:15#25
Jannie was in the ToW for both games...eat crow Tokkie. You are embarrassed by the very test you always rely on....current form.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Aug 2015, 05:41
#26
12 Aug 2015, 05:41#26
 Look Herr Goebbels - I stick to facts while you stick to whatever you dream up, because you  do not know the difference between facts and fiction.   I wrote what actually happened.
I have no problem with Jannie being in the TOW in the two tests.  I never said Du Plessis was poor in those two tests - I said he was stable and adequate.  I do believe that Jannie needs to be in the WC squad and said so repeatedly - but I do not lie about other players on a continuous basis like you do in an effort to justify his selection,
Where I have an issue with is that when other players like De Allende and De Jager was in the TOW you started with your BS and lies about them.
What is good for the goose is as per normal in your case not good for the gander.  
        
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
12 Aug 2015, 08:44
#27
12 Aug 2015, 08:44#27
 I have now watced the Boks test. All I can say is the ref must be plain stupid or blind or a cheat or all of these things. Tthe argies loosehead was scrumming in at right angles and upwards in every scrum ala wyatt crocked at his illegal best. 
It was exactly what happened to Jannie last year in Argieland. That scrumming was called out as being illegal. No wonder Pieter de Villiers is querying it.
Poor vincent good now miss the world cup because of this although de villiers wants him to play next Saturday. 
Jannie would have suffered the same fate as Koch with this illegal argie scrumming. Disgusting stuff.


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
12 Aug 2015, 10:17
#28
12 Aug 2015, 10:17#28
Moz why lie about the facts - are you saying that the two Argie looseheads destroyed Marcel? A simple yes or no will do and try not lie about it  
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