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Bok Team for next week against Argentina

Started by sharkbok26 REPLIES567 VIEWS· 09 Aug 2015, 00:54

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sharkbok

Captain23,282 posts

sharkbokCaptain23,282 posts

09 Aug 2015, 00:54

09 Aug 2015, 00:54#1

1. Nykana- Needs a run before the world cup. Beast on bench. Beast adds nothing outside of the scrum these days.The tight head of the scrum is certainly a problem- but it is so bad that loosehead may also be a problem.
2. Adrian Strauss- Probably a better scrummager than Bismaark. He should also get a run before the world cup as he has lost his mojo- but slowly getting better.
3. Lamb to the Slaughter Anyone except our current tightheads. Argentina are going to kill our scrum next week unless we do something drastic.
4. EztebethNot Elizabeth that showed up in today's test.
5. Matfield/Lood Foot - If Matfield is fit. We need organised lineouts and kick offs.
6. Brussouw. Flow is also injured- and a doubt for world cup, as is Strauss. Perhaps an SOS to Jaco Kriel who is effective at the breakdown - but a much stronger ball carrier than Brussouw.
7. Schalk. Better at 7 than at 8. He took more ball into contact than he has in ages. He is better running off the ball than as a carrier these days. Alberts could be an outside shot as the starting 7. We dont have a strong ball carrier to dominate the advantage line without Vermuelen.
Maybe Steph Dutoit can start at 7 to give him a run to see if he is worth taking for the World Cup. He needs game time to get back into form. Schalk could play at 8 to accommodate Steph Dutoit.

8. Need a placeholder until Vermeulen is back
9. FDP. PienaarIs he ready yet? I think our both our flyhalfs will play better outside FDP who will take on more tactical responsibility.
10. Lambie/Pollard. Pollard is not controlling the game tactically- but he should get a chance to combine with FDP who might create more opportunities.
It seems which ever flyhalf starts plays worse than the bench replacement between Pollard and Lambie.

12. Jean(injured) /DelandeJean's last shot to prove he should still be in the team. Probably a bench player at the world cup otherwise, or even on the right wing.
13. Jessie Kriel- give him a run at centre outside Devilliers. Impact player Delande
14. Jean Devilliers injured. We have no test standard wing at the moment. Maybe Kolbe- but with Willie in the side it would leave our back three too small.
JP's loss of form seems permanent and his sprint is more a a jog now days. He is more of a passenger these days

Jeans first tests were as right wing- so that could allow Kriel and Delande in the mid field and still keep Jean on the field.
11. Habana. Lost his pace but who else. He is still scoring tries- albiet not the super human ones of the past.
15. Willie Leroux. (Injured) We need our best attacking player getting more involved running onto the ball on 2nd phase onwards. Needs to stop aimless kicking.

Mozart

Captain49,914 posts

MozartCaptain49,914 posts

09 Aug 2015, 03:22

09 Aug 2015, 03:22#2

Some good thoughts there SB. I have a few alternatives in the backline. I would try de Villiers/ Kriel. I think there is a good chance that combination could be our best, both on attack and particularly on defence. Two smart players. I also think we have retain Pollard, dropping him now will probably mean a Lambie WC...thats a bleak prospect. Allende is more of an individual player, use him on the wing where I believe his defensive frailties will be disguised.

sharkbok

Captain23,282 posts

sharkbokCaptain23,282 posts

09 Aug 2015, 03:38

09 Aug 2015, 03:38#3

Mozart I was caught between trying Jean on the wing, or back at inside centre.
Kriel needs to playing outside centre- so it seems it is between Jean and Delande for inside centre
Delande was good in SuperXV so I am keen to keep him at inside centre, so pushing Jean to wing would bring Kriel back to outside centre.
Kriel has been the most effective over the last 3 tests than the other two, but Delande was good against the All Blacks.
Not sure Jean has the pace to place wing now- although JP is slow at wing- and Habana is not the speed Merchant he once was.
Jean may play better at inside centre- and Pollard may play better with Jean outside him.
Kriel may even better outside Jean. Although if Jean has to be accommodated- maybe it would be better he gets pushed to the wing.
Meyer will probably take the conservative route and move Jean to inside centre. Delande probably has the weakest defensive game of the three.
Lambie is better of the bench. If Pollard had FDP at 9 and Jean at 12 he is sure to play better. He just does not seem to have the tactical awareness to control the pattern of play at the moment.

Mozart

Captain49,914 posts

MozartCaptain49,914 posts

09 Aug 2015, 03:58

09 Aug 2015, 03:58#4

I agree with those observations. HM is at the point where he has to commit and commit wisely.

clevermike

Coach57,555 posts

clevermikeCoach57,555 posts

09 Aug 2015, 04:36

09 Aug 2015, 04:36#5

This is funny - the whole team fails bar our locks - and the best SA lock today must be dropped to make place for Vrot Victoria, the physically weakest lock in world rugby at present. He would call all line-outs to go to anybody bar himself and would do what Burger did yesterday - moonlight in the backline and when a decent ball is taken be the second receiver - made poor passes or go into breakdown situation - where the Pumas turned over possession. In any event Victoria is pretending to be injured so that he need not play another game to allow him to hide away his deficiencies to ensure WC selection.
Then the bugger-ups of Pienaar yesterday is all forgiven and he is to be given another chance. Pienaar looked as if he never switch on the lights yesterday - was awful, slow and planless. Du Preez has not played a test since last year when he was not a house on fire. Fact is he has not played a single match for 5 months and has a whacky knee. He should play - but he broke down in training on Monday and was absent from the Tuesday training session. It is like he is indispensable and need not ever play before the WC - so we can go into the WC on reputation.
Bismarck was absent today - he looked exactly like he did earlier this year for the Sharks when he was awfully poor. As if he is bad-tempered and useless - that one throw-in at the line-out that goes over the head of everybody to midfield was one of his better efforts yesterday.
I think that the center combination that worked well in the earlier tests needs to be retained. SB is probably correct - move De Villiers to the wing.
Then - as to the forwards and especially the props. Unfortunately both the props yesterday was poor and Jannie - if he was fit - would have repeated his performance last year against Argentina should he have played. There are no alternatives. I would say put Kitshoff in to start and partner him with Malherbe. Play Nyakane and partner him with Van der Merwe on the bench.
The loosies is a nightmare as well. Alberts is totally clueless and slow and useless, He was injured last year and played since then in 3 Super 15 games this year - putting in shocking performances. Should not be in any franchise squad - leave alone the Springbok squad. Burger yesterday had a shocker and was no good in ball protection and recovery - matter of fact he was trying to play at center where he buggered up whatever ball came his way. We have no no 8 without Vermeulen. I am sorry - but Burger is an impact player - so he should be on the bench at best. Did Brussow in fact play yesterday? If he did he was clearly not up to standard.
I would play the following as loosies this coming week and hope for the better. Play Kriel at 6, bring in Labuschagne -- who was excellent in the CC game yesterday - at 7 and move Du Toit to 8 - with Burger on the bench. This would cause a massive outcry - but the experienced players up front was shocking yesterday and we cannot lose anything by doing what I suggested. The shockers included all of Bismarck, Beast, Brussow and Burger. At least we would be competitive in line-outs and our ball protection and recovery would not be as poor as it was yesterday.
Yesterday Meyer finally got what he deserved after 3 years of not building up a reasonable squad for the WC. We have now lost 4 tests in a row - and out of 7 tests played since the RC last year - lost 5 tests. Yesterdays game was no better than the EOYT game against Wales last year when our forwards collapsed in a heap and gave the backline scraps to play with.
So lets look at the tests played since August 2014 year:-
* Argentina played 3 in RC - won 2 last year (both were shockers in actual performance) and lost 1 shocker yesterday.

* Australia played 3 in RC - lost 2 won 1
* All Blacks played 3 in RC - lost 2 won 1
* Ireland played 1 - lost 1
* England played 1 - won 1
* Italy played 1 - won 1
* Wales (EOYT) played 1 lost 1
So we played 12 tests since August last year. We won 6 tests and lost 6. That is a win percentage of 50% - probably the worst win percentage ever in tests played by the Springboks over a period of a year. So tell me - was Meyer's team selection up to standard?

sharkbok

Captain23,282 posts

sharkbokCaptain23,282 posts

09 Aug 2015, 15:03

09 Aug 2015, 15:03#6

The returning players are:
Steven Kitshoff, Frans Malherbe, Willem Alberts, Warren Whiteley and Jan Serfontein were declared fit to play last week, Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer decided to give them an additional week to recover and they will be considered for selection next week.

Springbok team doctor Craig Roberts said that players possibly returning from injury, such as Victor Matfield, Fourie du Preez and JP Pietersen, will be assessed on Monday before a decision on their availability for next weekend will be taken.

Victor Matfield will improve lineouts and lineouts.

He will also be captain now that Jean is out for 6 weeks with a broken jaw.

Jan Serfontein will not add much value on attack- but he is a decent bench player. His defense at inside centre is pretty good.

Fourie Dupreez is a must to give the Boks a tactical game- even if he is past his best- especially with no Willie Leroux out for the next game.

It is important the FDP gets a run before the world cup.

JP is permanently out of form- and this is a chance to prove he still has what is takes.

Their is not exactly massive competition for the Bok right wing spot.

It might be best to start with a front row of Steven Kitshof and Malherbe as they are a proven combination- and have /Koch and Nykana on the bench.

With Devilliers out- that leaves Delande and Kriel back as the centre combination.

With Leroux out- this gives Lambie a chance to play at 15.

clevermike

Coach57,555 posts

clevermikeCoach57,555 posts

09 Aug 2015, 15:35

09 Aug 2015, 15:35#7

SB
I am serious about not playing Fourie du Preez. he cannot even last a training session without his injury going into relapse. Where I agree with you he should be given game time before the WC - but is too unfit and may be injured again and that means we have to go into the WC with a player like De Klerk without any test experience whatsoever.
I would not even dream of playing Matfield ahead of De Jager - he was the only SA player yesterday that did well - the rest of the forwards were mediocre. Burger was average in performance - but I would give him a rest as well. However, he will have to play - since the alternative is to leave De Jager out and pick the physically-deficient Matfield at lock in his place - so they can have a captain in the side.
The situation is sick - but I am afraid that Meyer contributed to that illness by his deficient selections over the past three years.

Saffolk

Captain30,741 posts

Saffolk Captain30,741 posts

10 Aug 2015, 12:13

10 Aug 2015, 12:13#8

Shark your thinking is as piss poor as Meyers.......imagine wanting useless Matfield back as a start.

I take it you missed Marcel v/d Merwe dominating the Argie looseheads then?

DezertFox

Pro2,288 posts

DezertFoxPro2,288 posts

10 Aug 2015, 12:37

10 Aug 2015, 12:37#9

Jean last played wing in 2010 after his unsuccessful stint with Munster (He may have still been at Munster), he was carved up in two tests for his lack of pace. His days of playing wing were over a very long time ago.
As per Damian? Not cutting the mustard. He is faster than Jean and his attacking exploits have been exclusively in space or attacking outside shoulders. It makes no sense whatsoever playing Damian at 12 and putting Jean on the wing. Give Damian the space he wants and allow Jean to straighten up our attack and defend. He doesn't have to be in form or any more than 60% back to his best, he will be better than Damian.
Now to 10. I predicted over a year ago that we will lose game management in tight tests with Pollard, but why Lambie? Name one game at any level he has personally managed. I know there exists not an example having already followed his entire senior career closely. It simply must be Morné.

clevermike

Coach57,555 posts

clevermikeCoach57,555 posts

10 Aug 2015, 13:06

#10

10 Aug 2015, 13:06#10

D F
I have given up with your illogic. If there is a player with no idea of flyhalf play - other than kicking at goal - is is Morne Steyn. He has been robotic for years - his kicking out of hand is inaccurate and aimless - mostly possession handover to the opposition.
He has proven over and over he is robotic - who must be told before the game what eh should do and does not wier from those instructions irrespective of what the circumstances are.. The worst on-field decision-maker i have ever seen at flyhalf for the Springboks.
The fact that Morne can only make the starting line-up of Stade Francais when Plisson is not available does not tell you people anything at all - now does it.

Saffolk

Captain30,741 posts

Saffolk Captain30,741 posts

10 Aug 2015, 13:24

#11

10 Aug 2015, 13:24#11

The team for next week with a new coach should be:

15. Willie 14. Senatla 13. Kriel 12. de Allende 11. Sithole 10. Pollard 9. Faf 1. Kitshoff 2. Bismark 3. Marcel v/d Merwe 4. Etzebeth 5. Lood 6. Jaco Kriel 7. Jacques du Plessis 8. CJ Stander

16. Strauss 17. Nyakane 18. Malherbe 19. PSDT 20. Kolisi 21. Hougaard 22. Jantjies 23. Serfontien

sharkbok

Captain23,282 posts

sharkbokCaptain23,282 posts

10 Aug 2015, 15:01

#12

10 Aug 2015, 15:01#12

Aah Saffex finally the penny has dropped and Serfontein has been relegated to your bench.I see Lambie is no longer your 2nd choice flyhalf as well.

Marcel was only marginally better than Koch, he dominated no one.
The Boks only had one dominant scrum the whole match- right at the end when Nykana was in the pitch as loose head at the very end.
Sithole instead of Habana- what a joke. Sithole at best is SuperXV standard- at worst he is curry cup level.

Mozart

Captain49,914 posts

MozartCaptain49,914 posts

10 Aug 2015, 15:07

#13

10 Aug 2015, 15:07#13

Can you imagine that...we have Senatla, Sithole and Faf in their first Bok tests....supported by veterans Kriel and Allende? Marcel who couldnt deal with the weaker Bargie sub up against Ayerza...and yes there is a place for CJ Stander alongside veterans Kriel and du Plessis,
Are you taking the piss Dave?

Saffolk

Captain30,741 posts

Saffolk Captain30,741 posts

10 Aug 2015, 15:29

#14

10 Aug 2015, 15:29#14

Fuck me Moz what test were you watching......first off go watch the first scrum that Marcel comes on and tell me he does not dominate the Argie loosehead......maybe open your ears as well and listen to what the commentators had to say about Marcel's strength in that very scrum. It was after that scrum that the Argie loosehead got subbed and thereafter Marcel dominated the sub loosehead and that's a fact.

What actually happened served to prove how ignorant you are about props but more to the point, how wrong you are about Marcel. That is the second time at test level he has made your name mud......the last time was when he dominated Woodcock.

Egg on the face Moz, live with it.

The only person taking the piss is useless Meyer and you are more the fool for supporting him - do you get anything right, seriously? Do you honestly still support this clown or are you too proud to admit you have been wrong all this time, much like you have been wrong about de Allende, Faf, Lambie, Marcel, Malherbe, Lood, PSDT, Arno and Coetzee to name but some

Damn right we have Senatla, some actual pace on the wing with a bit of x factor unlike old man Habana who offers a big fat zero these days. Sithole showed plenty of power this S15, something we are lacking on the wing. We saw what a veteran in Jean had to offer against the Argies.....he was a joke, I reckon I am quicker than Jean these days. de Allende and Kriel were revaluations at centre against Oz and NZ.

Faf reminded me in his display against the Sharks on the weekend just how good he is and how much we need a 9 with attacking clout for the Boks. Pienaar is useless. Faf is twice the player.....easy call.

Yep CJ Stander, the Munster player of the year.....a class act useless Meyer has missed out on. With Vermeulen injured, CJ would be the perfect alternative. Forget old man Schalk.

My side would represent the best available players, instead of a bunch of has beens or never beens like your or Meyers side comprise

Saffolk

Captain30,741 posts

Saffolk Captain30,741 posts

10 Aug 2015, 15:30

#15

10 Aug 2015, 15:30#15

Shark wake the fuck up you idiot Serf has been injured am hardly going to have him start in his first game back now am I

Wake up you idiot

clevermike

Coach57,555 posts

clevermikeCoach57,555 posts

10 Aug 2015, 15:58

#16

10 Aug 2015, 15:58#16

My team would be different from the one of Dave because of injury and other issues:-
15 Lambie, 14 Habana, 13 Kriel, 12 De Allende, 11 Senatla, 10 Pollard, 9 Reinach, 8 Burger (c), 7 Labuschagne, 6 Kriel, 5 De Jager, 4 Etzebeth, 3 Malherbe, 2 Strauss, 1 Kitshoff
16 Du Plessis, 17 Nyakane, 18 Van der Merwe, 19 Du Toit, 20 Kolisi, 21 De Klerk, 22 Goosen, 23 Serfontein
Reasons :
* Le Roux is out with an injury* Sithole may be one for the future - but he was sub-par on Saturday in the CC* Reinach is the more experienced - I would prefer De Klerk to be on the bench* We need a captain - hence Burger. Would have preferred to rest him* Du Plessis should be used as a lock - not a loosie. * I would not touch Jantjies with a bargepole. Goes to pieces under pressure.

DbDraad

Captain26,388 posts

DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts

10 Aug 2015, 16:04

#17

10 Aug 2015, 16:04#17

Play the same team with substitutions for the injured, it won't happen again.

Mozart

Captain49,914 posts

MozartCaptain49,914 posts

10 Aug 2015, 16:24

#18

10 Aug 2015, 16:24#18

That's much closer to the truth.

clevermike

Coach57,555 posts

clevermikeCoach57,555 posts

10 Aug 2015, 17:16

#19

10 Aug 2015, 17:16#19

Draad
To play the same team would not be advisable. There were too many weak links and it would be wise to bring in alternative players because of the injuries.
I would hate to see the likes of Pienaar, Koch and Brussow being played tomorrow and Bismarck needs a rest as well.
As long as they do not play Matfield and Alberts we have a chance to turn around the outcome. Du Preez is another chancy one and I hope he does not play either.

Saffolk

Captain30,741 posts

Saffolk Captain30,741 posts

10 Aug 2015, 17:37

#20

10 Aug 2015, 17:37#20

Labs is not big enough for a test 7 not even close.

Lambie is not a 15

Reluctantly I'd move Kriel to 15 and start Serf at 12 - not ideal as it would have been better to have him come off the bench given he is only just back from injury. I'd have Vorster on the bench as cover at centre.

Reinach has been crap as he is rusty, Faf is in great form as is Hougaard.....so they would be my 9's

Sithole never got the ball so saying he was sub par for the Sharks on the weekend is rubbish

du Plessis can be used at lock or 7 and was our best 7 all S15

Fuck it pisses me off when people don't evolve......saying Jantjies struggles under pressure is rugby ignorance of the highest order. He was fantastic under pressure all season......move on for fuck sake.

Marcel is better than Malherbe

clevermike

Coach57,555 posts

clevermikeCoach57,555 posts

10 Aug 2015, 17:43

#21

10 Aug 2015, 17:43#21

Missed something like 4 kicks at goal in a pressure game - some of them sitters - not a good sign Dave.
Marcel is definitely not better than Malherbe - he is a weaker scrummer for one thing.

Saffolk

Captain30,741 posts

Saffolk Captain30,741 posts

10 Aug 2015, 17:54

#22

10 Aug 2015, 17:54#22

Kicking for goal does not define a player - his record for the year was as good as any other kicker out there.

Marcel is a stronger scrummager than Malherbe

Mozart

Captain49,914 posts

MozartCaptain49,914 posts

10 Aug 2015, 18:46

#23

10 Aug 2015, 18:46#23

The belly flopper vs the belly dancer. Close call in mediocrity....but I'd go for the belly flopper.

DbDraad

Captain26,388 posts

DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts

10 Aug 2015, 19:14

#24

10 Aug 2015, 19:14#24

Something went wrong with the scrums and Koch is taking the flack for it, which is a bit unfair. He scrumed more than just good for the whole season. Get Proudfoot to have a look at the footage and fix the problem. Changing the props will bring us nowhere now.

Beeno1

Captain40,032 posts

Beeno1Captain40,032 posts

10 Aug 2015, 19:52

#25

10 Aug 2015, 19:52#25

Draad I am glad you are showing some rare sense here. First we had the kbbs who have little clue (especially JW) but a number of posters are having a bad run of form and are not seeing the wood from the trees! Could the kbbs be driving some oaks nuts!!

Just_win

Captain18,570 posts

Just_winCaptain18,570 posts

10 Aug 2015, 20:06

#26

10 Aug 2015, 20:06#26

Beeno: some would say you make more sense when you comment on games you haven't seen yet -- I would not support such statements of course...
Others would say you make no sense whether you have seen the game or not.
I prefer to remain neutral as it is the more charitable position to take
I must however point out that the Boks were outplayed across the park. It was not just the forwards (scrums) it was in the backs. All facets of the game. Head in sand (or wherever else your head is) will not solve the problem.
JW taking the charitable view of the lunatic ravings of a wee troubled mind

CleanCut

Pro9,905 posts

CleanCutPro9,905 posts

10 Aug 2015, 20:12

#27

10 Aug 2015, 20:12#27

Haaaaaaaahahahahaha!!!!

Exactly!!

— END OF THREAD —

Bok Team for next week against Argentina

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