Boks announce Team for 2nd Test Against Wales

Wrong again. Let's look at the young players under HM
Willie...core team memberMvovo...dropped for performanceTaute....dropped for performanceJJ ....dropped for performanceSerf...playing behind legend JdVJantjies...dropped for performanceGoosen...fell away when injuredVan Zyl...dropped, not starting for the BoolsMalherbe...injuredCoenie .carefully reintroduced after injuryNyakane....dropped for ill disciplineAdriaanse..dropped....playing off the bench for the SharksEtzebeth....core team member....injuredP S du Toit ...injured
Lood... playing halves off the benchCoetzee ...dropped for performanceArno Botha...injured.
So 17 youngsters have been given test opportunities. Two are core team members. Another 5 are in the current team either as starters or off the bench. Four are currently injured. Seven have been dropped for performance reasons.
So HM cast a wide net, the guys who have become core players are few ...but for two reasons. Many players have suffered serious injuries and many players have failed, which is probably not unusual.
In fact HM has been very willing to include new players and has done so responsibly. Which player on the list who is not currently injured should be starting for the Boks. And if not one of these guys, what makes us think the next flavour of the day will get the job done?

 I am not so sure that Mvovo is dropped for performance reasons - he is safer under high balls than for instance Hendricks - but I believe he is a bench player in any event, coming after Habana and Pietersen.
I think some of the above skould never have been in the squad in any event.  Engelbrecht and Taute never should have been played at center (they are not centers) - and neither is Pietersen.     What he did as to Jantjies remains a serious mystery - perhaos on par with some of the Bulls players he selected in 2012.
Adriaanse was merely an emergency call up and never played.   In any event - he is not a top prop in any event.  Du Toit - when he was fit was given 10 minutes playing time in total.   
I agree with you about the injury problem - but one question that needs to be answered is - is Etzebth a core team member?  We will have to see whether that would be the case.  With Meyer doting on the Botha-Matfield combination - will Etzebeth become a bench player? 
The other interesting issue is - we have a problem at 13 - what is Meyer going to do with De Allende?  Personally I think he will run back to the attack-deficient Fourie and we will not hear anything further about his remarks about De Allende.   By the way I think De Allende is a better proposition than Serfontein - Saffex will have a seizure about that one. 
It will also be interesting to see what Meyer does with Pollard - even at his age a much better all-round flyhalf than Morne Steyn.          

 Good list mozart ....... vlag would be proud of you .

 Mozart
Your assessment of players are weird.   I am not convinced that Jordaan  is as bad as you always make him out to be.  He was good in all tight games played by the Sharks and the player that buggered up the Stormers game was inm fact Francois Steyn - with his missed kicks at goal.  Jordaan was effective in teh Sharks games against the Crusaders and the Blues - so how come he is not effective in tight games?  A rather sweeping statement to make.
I am not a great supporter of Sadie - he is a better 13 than Engelbrecht - but so are others as well.
I don't think Willemse is better than De Jager.  Both are very good propositions and will not let the team down.   At this stage both are better than Bakkies Botha though. 
In fact I am not in favour of too many changes to the Springbok side - matter of fact I think the real issue is the no 13 position (where there is no real incumbent) - and aside from that no 10, 7, the locks and Jannie du  Plessis.
We also need to find younger scrummies - the present two produce nothing of substance in any event.   However, a phasing in process is advisable.  Best to try out the present candidates and put them on the bench and give them some playing time.  
     

 Mozart
Sorry - the three guys you refer to are Vermeulen. Louw and Alberts.  Vermeuklen and Louw does 90% of the work well.   Alberts only produce 50% of what is expected from a loosie and even if he does 45% of that well - which I doubt - then the average of the loosies is brought down drastically.  
You cannot have  a loosie that is incapable of ball protection and recovery, as well as ball handling and who has at times been serious defective in defense.   Alberts would not be utilized by a loosie by any of the top teams in world rugby today - he is a lock masquerading as a loosie - and we do not need three locks on the field of play.
Whether you like it or not Bakkies is not the player he used to be and I would rather see that in the RC he is not in the squad anymore.  He will be bog ordinary - not good enough.   Even Flippie had a so-so year in Super 15 and a danger to teams - he is bound to give away too many penalties and his recent disciplinary record is not acceptable at all.   Another player that may be on the way out.

 Mike, let's be serious. HM is so passionate about the Boks and the winning that he would not risk playing the best. And like it or not, we will not always agree with all his choices but he and his team knows what they want, what they want to achieve and how they want to do it. Of course, there are no guarantees and lots of variables. He has had those variables right from the start of his tenure and still has them.

What he bargained/hoped for at the start was that FDP, Jaque Fourie, Kankowski, Schalk Burger, Duane Vermeulen, Johan Goosen, etc would be available. Those are well-known facts and they were well publicised at the time. What happened?

Jaque Fourie couldn't get out of his  contract.

Kankowski signed in Japan at the end of 2011 after accepting that he was no longer in the running for the Boks. How was he to know that a few months later HM would be appointed and would be interested in him? He had a meeting with HM  and told him that he would love nothing more than to play for the Boks again but he has signed an agreement with the Japanese club and he wasn't going to go back on his word. HM accepted that.

We know what happened to Burger, who was probably leading the race for the captaincy.

Duane Vermeulen and  Goosen both picked up major and long term injuries.

Let's forget for a moment about your sentiments about Morne. He stuck with Morne through his bad patch because there really was no one. He knew and said all along that Morne only a good break because of his work load. He rightfully did not have any confidence in Jantjies and he only really played him only when he had  no choice or when a game was already won  or lost. He never sent him on when a game was in the balance and he only started him once, when he had no choice. The moment that Goosen was ready, he played him and then started with him. He also did not use Lambie but he kept him in the squad to "work with him". He rewarded him on the 2012 EOYT by taking him along as the starting 10. He also tool Morne along and did two things. He kept  him in with the squad in order not to side-line him but he also did not play him. Just like he kept Lambie in the squad and not play him. That is what is meant by player management. HM never leaves players in the dark. Ask Robert Ebersohn and Heinrich Brossouw.

Why do I mention all  of that, you might ask. One reason. HM plans ahead and as I said he has his eyes firmly on the now but he also has the future in sight, despite what a few of us might think. HM will not play Bakkies in the RWC if he is not the best and up for it. I would, as Saffex said, put my house on it that Bakkies would not have been recalled if Eben and PSDT were fully fit and  playing. Victor yes, but not Bakkies. At the most, Bakkies would have been in the squad but not nearly in the same role that he was this year. Meyer knows that he has great locks to choose from  but he also know that they have to be mentored and nurtured and who better to mentor them than the best lock combo we have ever had?

Lastly, I do not agree that Flip had a so so year. He took over the captaincy when he was virtually the last one available and he did well, IMO.

PS. Something I wanted to mention at the beginning about HM's passion for the Boks. I don't like name dropping and I have never met HM or anything but I had some contact with his older brother, Lodewyk, in the late 90's and I was with him (Lodewyk) the day that Heyneke heard that he got the job with the SWD Eagles. I was having a chat with Lodewyk when Heyneke phoned him. They talked on the phone and when they finished, Lodewyk told me who it was and  what it was about. Then he burst out laughing saying: "You know what 'die klein kak' says to me? He says this is just the beginning. He is going to be the Bok coach one day."

 Cerdayne
I do not doubt the sincerity of Meyer - and must be frank to my mind he is on the conservative side with his selections.  He did not start of well - but he is trying to get better.   I really know that there is no chance of a change in coach - but just egging Saffex on by supporting him.
In essence I do believe that Meyer is not using the bench enough to blood younger players - like he did with De Jager on Saturday.  The youngster showed a serious lot of potential and I think by WC time he is likely to be a fixture in the Springbok squad.
I think there are other players Meyer should get onto the bench asap.  I would say Pollard is one, Labuschagne another, De Allende is a definite (probably the answer at 13 in any event) and a few others as well.   Meyer may not want to - but I would take a chance and put a number of fringe players on the field next week - the Scots is  not a good team and they should to my mind rest most of the Sharks forwards in any event. 
In any event - I do not expect a massive win by the Springboks tomorrow  - i think the match will be much more equal.  
 

 I think we will  probably see  a much different side for Scotland. Be honest. There was "some method to his madness". Someone mentioned that he could have been using these tests to suss out the older players while bringing in some of the youngsters alongside them. That was what happened with Lood coming on from the bench. He knew  that he would have the overseas players  only until the second test against Wales and not for Scotland and  I think that at the end he will have done a  good "stock taking" for the RC.

I mentioned that Vlag. You can try out the younger players. I believe the shrewd Meyer was assessing the guys who he doesn't see that much in RSA...essentially taking the measure of his older talent, with the side benefit of a very predictable performance. Smart stuff.
What has to be concerning is the fact that the youngsters aren't pushing the old guys harder.
I think this string demonstrates, there really aren't any obvious young players who could make a difference and aren't already fully in the mix.

 "What has to be concerning is the fact that the youngsters aren't pushing the old guys harder.

I think this string demonstrates, there really aren't any obvious young players who could make a difference and aren't already fully in the mix. "

More or less what I was trying to get accross with this post on the "wee all blacks" thread:

Ceradyne

Status: Senior player
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June 18, 2014, 14:19:04  Saffex

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June 18, 2014, 13:58:17

Meyer is going backwards you clown.......you build a side with a core of experienced players and you introduce youngsters to supplement that core.........Meyer's model goes the other way......that's how stupid he is.

 

It started with a good blend of youth and experience, now all we see is experience and a bunch of washed up hasbeens flying the flag

 

Incrementally building - my arse 

Well what do you know? The core of Meyer's "current" squad are experienced players. Bear in mind that a  hell of a  lot of youngsters that he has  already introduced are out injured at the moment. Etzebeth, Botha, PSDT, Boshoff, etc.

To add to his total core group of Bok players he has introduced the likes of Willie le Roux, Jan Serfontein, Marcell Coetzee, JJ Engelbrecht, Partrick Cilliers, Johan Goosen, Frans Malherbe, Jaco Taute, Arno Botha, Trevor Nyakane, Siya Kolisi, Piet v Zyl, PSDT, Lood de Jager and Cornal Hendricks and Damien de Allende. That is 16 players right there.

The players in bold are either injured or already in  the team. Who would  you have swapped out?

 Mozart
How much did D e Jager had to push to prove that he was streets ahead of Bakkies Botha?