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FORUM / RUGBY /  Boks must think outside the box says Venter

Boks must think outside the box says Venter

Started by Beeno160 REPLIES581 VIEWS· 08 Dec 2014, 09:17
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Dec 2014, 09:17
#1
08 Dec 2014, 09:17#1

Brendon goes astray here a few times but never fear I will point out the error of his ways!

Ex Supersport


Springbok supporters have every right to feel disenchanted after an underwhelming end-of-year tour. However, I believe the European sojourn can prove a blessing in disguise if lessons are learned. (As suggested by Beeno)

The Springboks followed the stock-standard approach that has famously worked for them in the past but this time they were found wanting. Their game deficiencies were exposed for all to see.

The above approach is underpinned by coming off nine, driving the lineout and kicking high balls.(So we paly a pap lock to help drive the lineouts, wee oupa - no Louw and Alberts, scrummies unlike Du Preez)

However, the challenge now facing the Springbok management team is that all three of the aforementioned methods are being nullified at this moment. The Springbok weapons of mass destruction were deactivated on their northern tour this November, which should raise a red flag.

Wales, in particular, prevented South Africa’s momentum from channel one by hitting the ball-carrier’s legs. It was clearly a preordained plan from Wales to get off the line hard and deliberately target runner’s legs. Even if you’re Eben Etzebeth, you can’t go anywhere without your two pegs!

Secondly, the driven lineout is potentially not as effective a weapon going forward because a rule adaption (Orchestrated no doubt by the PAP kiwis) has allowed teams to stand off it and, in the process, neutralise the tactical ploy.

Furthermore, in the past, much of the Boks’ best play revolved around kicking high balls and contesting in the air. This was because, when possession was won back, it presented broken-field situations from which to attack and opportunities to get in-behind the opposition defence.

However, as evidenced against Wales at the Millennium Stadium, the high-ball policy and contesting the ball in the air is no longer as effective a tactic as before. This is due to the fact that there’s been a definite referee directive to protect the defending player in the air. Cornal Hendricks did absolutely nothing wrong when he contested with Leigh Halfpenny, and yet was penalised and yellow-carded.(I NOTE THE OZZIE GUY TOOK OUT THE IRISH PLAYER IN THE AIR BUT IT WAS ONLY A PENALTY AWARDED BY THE NZ REF!!!!! TYPICAL!!!!)

Owing to the above, I would argue that the Springboks now have to start thinking differently because they aren’t going to win the 2015 World Cup in England by pushing the repeat button.(HANG ON THERE BRENDON MEYER IS GETTING DU PREEZ BACK AND ALSO KIRCHNER AND PROBABLY MORNE TO DO SOME GREAT ATCTICAL KICKING!!)

One of the Springboks’ greatest strengths has been their ability to physically dominate their opponents but in the modern professional era this is a thing of the past ( iS IT REALLY OR IS IT BECAUSE THEY PALYT THE PAPEST LOCK EVER SEEN PLAYING INTERNATIONAL RUGBY AND PAP OUPA AS WELL - YOUCAN EXPECT TO DOMIANTE WITH TWO SUCH PLAYERS IN THE MIX!!!). Even Italy – the perennial whipping boys of the Six Nations – stood their ground owing to improved strength and conditioning.

The Springboks find themselves in uncharted territory. Previously, driving the lineouts, kicking high balls and running hard off nine to create momentum from which to play, always worked wonders.

But not anymore, which is why I believe it’s now time for the Boks to start thinking outside the box.

This is not a case of the coach telling the players just to perform their skills better, because if you’re running hard off nine and the opposition tackle your legs, you can’t jump over them. Similarly, you can’t tell the referee you had your eye on the ball, if you made contact with the player in the air.

I believe that one shouldn’t criticise Heyneke Meyer because, by and large, these curveballs weren’t there before the tour (NONSENSE!!!). As such, one should see the points of learning as a blessing because the Boks simply weren’t going to be competitive in the World Cup if they headed down the self-same path.

In order for the Springboks to prove successful going forward, a change of plan is required. And when plotting potential solutions, each area outlined above has to be examined in isolation.

Heyneke has proved receptive in the past, and has already adapted his style of play by keeping the ball in hand more and selecting the likes of Willie le Roux and Cobus Reinach, who boast the X-factor. (PLEASE NOTE DR MOZZZZZ)

However, Heyneke has to bring more players on board that offer something different to the team.

DE JONGH DESERVES A STAB AT CENTRE

With the current dearth in the midfield, I would advocate Juan de Jongh’s Springbok selection.(YOU HAVE TO BE JOKING THE GUY HAS FLOPPED REPEATEDLY AT INTERNATIONAL LEVEL AND HIS DISTRIBUTION IS PUTRID)

In my opinion, the Western Province Currie Cup-winning captain, who offers leadership ability, an electrifying change of pace and fleet-footedness, could add value to the Springbok setup.

Jaque Fourie is not the answer going forward. The 31-year-old has made it clear that he no longer wants to play for South Africa and to beg a player to avail himself for the Springboks is absurd.

Meanwhile, the injury to Jean de Villiers is a huge pity, as he will go down in my book as one of the greatest Springboks of all time (agreed). Jean has bounced back each time injury has struck and is a credit to the game but there’s no denying that his latest is a significant injury that will require intense rehab.

Realistically, the Boks may have to plan for the World Cup without their talismanic skipper in mind.

The honest selection issue at centre is that Frans Steyn needs to return and play at 12 for the Boks. Steyn is a genuinely world-class player and, somewhere along the line, SA Rugby officials have to sit down with the player to clear the air and settle the dispute for the good of South African rugby.(was is the word brendon. he has been very poor over the last few years!!!!!)

Should Fourie be begged to make a Bok comeback or would you prefer De Jongh to fill the breach? (Neither PLEASE. Allende should be tried)

An off day for Brendon. He doesnt understand why the Bok pack is as pap as it is right now. Notas pap as the wee abs for sure but roughly ona par with England - menaing still belwo Bok standards. 

Bringing back De Jong and Frans. heavens the guy must have had one too many!!! 

I agine a backline of :

Du Preez, Morne, Habana, Frans, De Jong JP and Willie. Is this where we are heading.


Its a nightmare! 


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Dec 2014, 12:44
#2
08 Dec 2014, 12:44#2
 There are some sense in what Venter is writing.   It is evident that we have lost a lot since the changing of the rules and the fact that we have not adjusted to those changes is costing us and will cost us in future.   
The question is what can be done about the issue:-
Forwards
From the  NH Tour it isevident that there are three players in the mix who do not produce the required goods and those are -
*   Victor Matfield*   Jannie du Plessis*   Oupa Mohoje
The reasons are clear and for all to see:-
*   Matfield is physically deficient and not up to standard.   *   Jannie is very one-dimensional and in the process tend to give away too many penalties.*    Mohoje is just not up to standard
In the present environment you need players that can go forward in tackles - players who are strong in tackles - players who are strong enough to ensure ball protection and recovery in tackle ball situations - who are skillful ball players with the necessary pace thrown in.
That is where you have to look at strong props - who participate in the rest of the game and is not only on the field of play only to scrum.  So where do we go in the relevant regard:-
Props 
We have the props to handle that situation :
Tightheads   -    Malherbe, Oosthuizen, Marcell van der MerweLoosheads    -    Mtawarire, Nyakane,  Du Toit
Locks
Forget about Matfield - he is not physiclly up to standard.   You need strong and competive locks at 4 -  Etzebeth, Willemse, Flip van der Merwe, De Jager - and strong and mobile locks at 5 -  Du Toit,  Lewies,  Du Plessis, Rhodes
Loosies
As Venter so clearly indicated the days of the baby-elephant locks are gone.   Ball carries by loosies are essrential - but requires the ability to link up with the backline players and who have ball skills to add to their repertoire.    Esentially we ned thinking players with abll snese as loosies.
We have a poblem at present in that our loosies play the crashball play all the time. They have a deficiency in that they run straight at defenders - never thinking of passing the ball.   This applies to all our present Springbok loosies to a large extent. Vermeulen, Burger and Louw has shown they can play a different game and I am sure so can Coetzee.   Forget about Alberts - he has zero ball skills and cannot do breakdown  ball protection and recovery.   The annswer for additional loosies centrs around players like Botha, Labuschagne, Kriel and Whiteley.
Players must be coached to think that passing of balls to other players - lalso linking up with the abckline -is not a mortal sin to be avoided at all costs.
Backline
Lets face facts - the kicking game is an essential part of backline play - but then the kkicks musthave objectives and be extremely accurate.   Most of our kickers cannot eb accused of accurate and objective kicking- and that throws the baby out withthe bathwater and serve merelyto hand over possession to the opposition. 
I have no problem with players like Reinch, Du Preez (although he is a bit past it) and a few of the younger scrummies - who are capable of reading and exploiting situations.
We have three flyhalfs of standing that can be explosive - Pollard, Goosen and Lambie.
Our main problems are at center and more essentially the no 13 position.   However, Venter is wrong aboutDe Jongh - he has been in the Springbok team before and for a variety of reasons flopped badly.   The main reason is that his defense is poor (proven by stats) and he is unabe to create space for himself or other players - he is at best a finisher.
I would think that a strober player at 13 - with skills to boot is essential.   Those type of players are not easy to come by - but I would definitely look at players like De Allende, Hanekom and even Johann Sadie for a solution to the problem.
If De Villiers is not available - we are well-covered at 12 - with Serfontein and De Allende in that position.
The Wings alsois a problem - a serious one at that.  Pietersen has lost pace badly and he is not the answer anymore.  I think that the answer lies with players like Senatla, Van Wyk, and even  Engelbrecht and Jordaan.    Senatla, van Wyk and Jordaan are very skillful and thinking  ball players.
So the solution is reltively easy - the non-application of the solution is exactly what is written by Venter.   Mozart will obviousymake out that Ventr is a fool who does not know anything about what is required to win WC"s - but I think he is in most respects pretty near the mark.       
HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
08 Dec 2014, 14:20
#3
08 Dec 2014, 14:20#3
 "Brendon goes astray here a few times but never fear I will point out the error of his ways!"

Is anyone else still waiting for that killer punch line? I cannot work out which ones are Beanheads opinion and which ones are Venters - The bold letters are Beanheads and the capital letters are also Beanheads???????
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,290 posts
08 Dec 2014, 14:40
#4
08 Dec 2014, 14:40#4
After the most recent tour, I would be happy if the Boks could think at all, either in a box or out of a box  
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
08 Dec 2014, 15:26
#5
08 Dec 2014, 15:26#5

I sometimes wonder if all this debate and criticism is even worth it.


Many SA supporters are unhappy with so many issues in regards to our rugby, yet nothing changes and it just seems to get worse, be it the structure of super rugby, the manner we select players, the conservative nature of our rugby.


Maybe I am just tired of complaining and should give the subject of rugby a miss for a year or two  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Dec 2014, 17:01
#6
08 Dec 2014, 17:01#6
 Are we willing to bet our RWC on a strategy that turns on Stepfontein and De Allende? That's what most posters seem to want, but it's an assured loser. You can't create a strategy without considering the competitive strengths and weaknesses of your resources
And here's the truth.....we were man for man inferior to Wales at 14, 11, 13, 10 and 9. And we were at parity at 12. How do you win the RWC by running the ball, when only your fullback is clearly better equipped than his Welsh opponent in the running game? 

It's  thick.
We have to rely on forward dominance in set pieces, monster counter rucking, pin point tactical kicking and lightning fast exploitation of turnovers. Massive defence. That's our game, and played properly it's just as relevant as it  was 60 years ago.
Or we play wide open rugby with no chance of winning.


BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
08 Dec 2014, 17:11
#7
08 Dec 2014, 17:11#7
And you think Frans Steyn and Jaque Fourie i s going to win it for you? 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Dec 2014, 17:56
#8
08 Dec 2014, 17:56#8
All that Mozart said we must pin our hopes on in winning the WC - is countermanded by his own support for selection of players.
But ltts analyze that statement:-
"We have to rely on forward dominance in set pieces, monster counter rucking, pin point tactical kicking and lightning fast exploitation of turnovers. Massive defence. That's our game, and played properly it's just as relevant as it  was 60 years ago. "
Forward domination  and Counter-rucking
How do you have forward domination -nwith a weak and non-physical lock like Matfield in the Tight 5 and a person who is totally incapable of controibution to breakdown ball recovery like Alberts?   
Pin-point tactical Kicking
Fransie and Morne capable of that?  Must be seriously mentally defetive to even state that with them it could happen.    In any event that is one way of playig - constant kicking away of balls can be countered easily - so it sis a measure to be used as an alternative - not as a rule.   Habitutal and contant mindless kicking is a certain match loser - especially if the kicking is as inaccurate as that of the two players mentioned.
Lightning Fast Exploitation of turnovers
What a dream - when the idea is that Alberts would help in that and bearing in mind the serious pace deficiency of some of our other players - like Pietersen, Francois Steyn and Morne Steyn.    Seeing what happened in practice would mean a lightning fast turnover would lead to another mindless kick.
Massive Defense
Then surely that takes care of the weak defenders - like th e Steyn's in the backline and the efforts of players like Matfield Alberts and Jannie du Plessis for the following resons:-
*    Natfield - weak tackler*    Alberts - low tackle count and too many tackle misses*   Jannie - same as Alberts. 
Just as it was 60 Years ago
What an idiot we have here.   The game changed completely in the last 10 years through changes of the rules and he wants the team to play the same game as 60 years ago.    
The answer is not the above.   The answer is to be competitive up front - which we are not because of serious selection deficinecies.   We must have a more dynamic  game plan and must out think our opponents - not try and outplay them only with physical force.    As Dr Venter said the latter can be neutralized - the former  is much more difficult to counter.
   
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Dec 2014, 20:28
#9
08 Dec 2014, 20:28#9
Pollard/ Frans/ JP would be a very formidable RWC midfield. HM knows he can't go in there with Step/ JJ or de Allende.... If we do that and double up with Lambie  and Raainag , we might as well stay at home. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Dec 2014, 20:37
#10
08 Dec 2014, 20:37#10
 Pollard is fine - Fransie a disaster at center and so is JP.  The slowest center combination thinkable - and the slowest thinkers to boot.  Venter would think anyone coming up with that combination will be void in rugby thinking.
By the way Fransie showed nothing in attack coupled to sub-par defense playing for the Sharks over the past two years at 12 - can we afford a person who is basically inadequate in the Super 15 to be in the Springbok side?   Pieterseen's defense at 13 also left much to be desired and his attacking ability in that position is also near to zzero.
What do you expect from centers - coming up with those two names?   
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Dec 2014, 21:09
#11
08 Dec 2014, 21:09#11

Ag OOM have another dop you old fool.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Dec 2014, 21:53
#12
08 Dec 2014, 21:53#12
 Hacked waaugh you halfwit if you cant distinguish between Venters comments and mine your chances of comprehending what I say are NIL. Bwahahhahaha
Moz says: We have to rely on forward dominance in set pieces, monster counter rucking, pin point tactical kicking and lightning fast exploitation of turnovers. Massive defence. That's our game, and played properly it's just as relevant as it  was 60 years ago.He 
Dr Moz wants foward dominance but wants wee matfiled at lock -go figure. Venter says it cant be done these days. Well how about this pack that would give even England a severe klap:Beast, Bissie, Malherbe.Willemse, EtzebethLouw, Vermuelen, Burger (Man you could pick even Steph at 7 Elstadt, Du Plessis at some 120kg etc etcPack weighing around 950 kg. 
Next we have the myth that Willie is our only attacking backWell we have three very attacking scummies if one gets Kolbe on the right track - most elusive runner in world rugby. Reinach being the fastest scrummie in world rugby.  We havea very attacking flyhalf in Pollard - far better than anything nz have. We have a still fine attacking wing in Habana who must be well managed next year. We have the blistering pace and running ability of Senatla - faster than anything nz have. Then we have the mecurial Willie you will thrive once opposition sides have more attacking players to look out for.By the way we could affotrd to lighten the pack and put in the worlds fastest loosie in Kriel and still dominate physically.
What we dont have is a coach with the ability to see possibilties and who has wasted a lot of time thsi year in particular. I fear where he may go next!Lastly Allende is fast enought to play on the wing. He is big and strong and fearless. He will make a very good 13. Again time has been squandered by not playing him. JJ shoiuld be on the wing as well. He will make avery good international wing
Our big problem re selections is between the ears and the quota problem. 
Hacked waaugh of course has a severe problem between that narrow gap betwe en his ears! ! 
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
08 Dec 2014, 22:06
#13
08 Dec 2014, 22:06#13
 SA plays stupid rugga. Meyer did not change that. IMO Snorre was not that much weaker a coach than Meyer. AND I thought Snorre was kak...looks less of a fool now.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Dec 2014, 22:10
#14
08 Dec 2014, 22:10#14
Draad we had a very nice home series against Oz and nz. Meyer went backwards on tour. Three tires in ten minutes agai nst OZ shackles came off nice balanced rugby.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Dec 2014, 22:10
#15
08 Dec 2014, 22:10#15
Malherbe...oh no....you're kidding surely. Hell this bugger is in the Stephanie class of injury susceptibility. Blow on him in the scrums and he belly flops. Blow on him again and he does a hammie. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Dec 2014, 22:13
#16
08 Dec 2014, 22:13#16
This tour has no real informational content except showing Lambie and Step are toothless...and Raainag and Gocart are bumblers.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Dec 2014, 22:37
#17
08 Dec 2014, 22:37#17
 "This tour has no real informational content except showing Lambie and Step are toothless...and Raainag and Gocart are bumblers"
 His tour comments show that Mozart is from a rugby performance point of view is  a moron
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Dec 2014, 23:39
#18
08 Dec 2014, 23:39#18
Dream  your provincial bureaucrat dreams ....old toppie. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
08 Dec 2014, 23:53
#19
08 Dec 2014, 23:53#19
Oh what utter rubbish now all of a sudden Wales were better throughout except for parity at 12. Jean has been useless all year.
Fact is Serfontein is the best young 12 in the game by some distance but unfortunately being wasted at 13 by our ignorant coach.
de Allende has the raw material to be a Kurandrani but again clueless Meyer has missed a beat.
No way in hell is Biggar better than Lambie or the Welsh 9 being better than Reinach. .....no way in hell.
The wings clueless Meyer selected were wrong. Hell we had a star in the making in Senatla on board and he overlooked him.
Fact is Meyer cocked up big time. He is failing the Boks playing out of touch rugby with the wrong side.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
09 Dec 2014, 00:01
#20
09 Dec 2014, 00:01#20
Jean de Villiers attempted 60 tackles this test season and missed 17!!!  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Dec 2014, 00:05
#21
09 Dec 2014, 00:05#21

Oops Mvovo wrong? Ah well he is year 3 of the Saffex cycle. Year 1 like de Allende = great untapped potential. Year 2 like Step= Best in the game. Year 3 = wrong. > Year 4 = done.

 

Sadly Step  is about as toothless a centre who has ever started 10 tests for the Boks in one year. As his career strike rate and his 2014 strike rate of 10% shows. Slow, not elusive, not powerful....not  imaginative. a slow crashballer.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Dec 2014, 00:34
#22
09 Dec 2014, 00:34#22
 Don't mind Mvovo but he is not close to being the next best after JP and co same applies to Hendricks. 
Serfontein has been our best test centre all year....its not even close and to think he has played out of position all year in a sub standard Bok side.
Serfontein aged 21 is far better than Jean was at the same age. He has all the skills in the world and will be out test centre for the next decade. His strength is a strength....the guy has plenty of power. 
The issue is not our stock it's the fool who does not know how to choose or direct that stock. Meyer is weak this year proved it and an early exit from the WC with Kirchner, Morne and Matfield on board will confirm it.
The writing is on the wall
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Dec 2014, 06:49
#23
09 Dec 2014, 06:49#23
 Now we have a siuation where according to Mozart all problems will b fixed by bringing into the cneter combination Francois  Steyna and JP Pietersen -two players who falls comprehensively outside the "thinking outside the box"  statement of Venter.
 Francois Steyn is the one player that is totally one-dimensional ever since his return from France.   His only play is to run straight at the first defender - virtually never beating that individual.  That happened in all tests played in 2012 - the few Super 15 matches played in 2013 and all the matches played in 2014.  His ability to even make 1 clean line break in 2014 as a centr - celearly illustrated his lack of ability.   The other tendeny he showed repeatedly in matches is to kick or hog balls and his number of passes of balls became less and less during all tournaments.   Matter of fact he only on average pass the ball circa 30% of all balls habdled by him - the rest is when he kept the ball  or kicked it away.   In 2014 the players playing outside of him got no chances to play with the ball in hand because they rarely saw  it.   
Statistically Steyn has been the worst no 12 in all tests and Super 15 games played since his return from France.   In 2012 he scored a try from a kick charge down in the Argentina game and in 2013 he scored a try when put into space by Bosman in a game against the Blues.   In 2014 he scored no tries.   
His defense let him down badly on both test and Super 15 level and his attacking play was mediocre  at best.   The eprformance records this year was also effected by a knee injury - which according to statements made cannot be dealt with medically.    
This is the player Mozart want at inside center.   What a joke.
His choice at outside center is equally weird - a player whowas tried out in that position - found to eb unsuccessful and moved back to wing - because he was unsuccessful in that position - both from a defense and attacking perspective.    He has since gone to Japan and in the process lost pace.   When he was tried in that positionin tests this year - his defense was problematic and his attacking play equally so.
So why are these two players suggested by Mozart?   Easy answer - th ey both were in the 2007 WC squad.   There recent performances means nothing according to that dolt.  

                  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Dec 2014, 07:24
#24
09 Dec 2014, 07:24#24
 Oh boy you got me there Clouseau. 
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
09 Dec 2014, 08:11
#25
09 Dec 2014, 08:11#25
Lambie made one clean break and beat 3 defenders, Reinach made one clean break and beat 3 defenders, Biggar and Webb, made no clean breaks nor beat any defenders.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Dec 2014, 08:18
#26
09 Dec 2014, 08:18#26
 BB
That does not count in Mozart's book - he pefers players who make no clean breaks and beat no defenders.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
09 Dec 2014, 08:45
#27
09 Dec 2014, 08:45#27
 I will say this about JP at 13 he does beat defenders and CAN cut a line as we have seen a number of times. I thought it was an experiment worth continuing with.JP is too slow for a wing. I also think his attitude is a bit slack these days. Too much easy Japanese rugby!!
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
09 Dec 2014, 08:47
#28
09 Dec 2014, 08:47#28

Yeah, he and Meyer is all about the kicking.


Cue Moron Steyn, FLop du Preez and Temper Tantrum Fatty Steyn, with POser Kirchner at 15.


We're in for some fu...ng  exciting rugby next year. 

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
09 Dec 2014, 08:50
#29
09 Dec 2014, 08:50#29
Hakwa: yes the article does show instances of logic & sanity interlaced with delusional ramblings accentuated by typos & what appears to by random lashing out at the keyboard - all indications that our mate Beeno has added his "insight"
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
09 Dec 2014, 09:08
#30
09 Dec 2014, 09:08#30
 Just vin (at any cost) that is no way to talk about my insightful comment that went wooosh over your head.
BB we can only live in hope that Meyer gets a divine revelation about what to do.
There is always hope. The Boks somehow muddle through and surprise as poor snapster and ou maaaaikie found out when all those predictions back fired! I agree though that the signs th at Meyer has it all under control are not good at the moment.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Dec 2014, 09:10
#31
09 Dec 2014, 09:10#31
 Beeno
I have serious doubts about Pietersen at 13.   His bst prformnce by some distance was against the very weak scottish team - where he did make 2 line breaks and did very well.   
However I have serious doubts about his defence at 13.  In th three tests he played in h made 18 tackles - missing 5.   That makes for a missed tackle ratio of 21,7 - which is way too high for a center.   Anything above 14% is in fact unacceptable - 21.3% borders on a disaster.  Missed tckles at 13 normally leads to scoring of tries and Pietersen missed far too many. 
He ahd three good ball carries at 13 - that must be to his credit - but is that enough to justify his selection - especially bearing in mind that two of those were ag ainstthe very weak Scottish outit.   One of his other main problems is he rarely passed balls - so in most cases he got caught in possession with relatively poor results for the Springboks.  In this regard - he had possession of the ball in the tests in question 25 times - he kicked once - passed the ball 7 times and carried it 17 times.      The latter showed that he plays like a wing - not a center.  
Overall - I do not think that the experiment playing Pietersen was really a success - there are too many problems with his defense and the tendency to carry the ball into a tackle situation where the results were not in favour of SA.   He is too much in the JJ mould - a wing converting unsuccessfully to center.   
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
09 Dec 2014, 09:41
#32
09 Dec 2014, 09:41#32
 The fact is Mike JP needs to move to 13 as he is too slow for a wing. He must play 13 for the sharks perhaps and see how it goes re defence which I thingk is not as bad as some suggest. Jordaan has the gas and can play wing?
JJ is becoming a  typical SA tradgedy. He would make a class international wing.
Our coaches have little idea when it comes to assessing where a player should play!
Look at Kwagga Smith - at 88 kg they are playing him as a flank. But look at his speed and the way he runs. We need backs not more loose forards!!!! So evident but the guys insist on getting it wrong.
It should be mandatory for all SA coaches at Vodacome level and above to post here so they can learn the game from resident expert (S)
Look how even just vin occassionally makes a c orrect point!
TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
09 Dec 2014, 10:19
#33
09 Dec 2014, 10:19#33
 Mozart:We have to rely on forward dominance in set pieces, monster counter rucking, pin point tactical kicking and lightning fast exploitation of turnovers. Massive defence. That's our game, and played properly it's just as relevant as it  was 60 years ago.
Or we play wide open rugby with no chance of winning.

Correct!

The idea that the game had changed is nonsense and we fall for it every so often. Rugby is still a territorial game. You first have to be in the right area of the field, before you will be able to score points. And Ireland and Wales confirmed that again, with both Se.xton and Biggar getting the MOM awards, by just playing a straight forward territorial game.

We hear the cries for quite a few people continuously that we have to select the younger players. Well, we did it mostly this year. Got rid of Morne (replaced by Lambie and Pollard), FdP was unavailable (replaced by Reinach and Hougaardt), J Fourie did not play (replaced by Serfontein). Alberts did not play (replaced by Mohoje).

We hear the cries, from the same people that we should play running rugby, the ball in hand approach. And we did it this year. So how did it go?

Percentage wins:
Down from 83.33% (10/12) to 69.23% (9/13)

Score differential:
Down from 212 to 95
Ave differential: Down from 17.6 to 7.3

Tries:
Down from 47 to 38

We had more matches where we won by only a few points.

Saved in the last moments/quarter in matches in Nelspruit, Salta, Newlands, Ellispark.

We nearly lost to Argentina and played poorly against Italy.

We lost to Ireland and Wales.

A clear downward trend.

Yet, we still hear the same cries. "We need to play the younger players!", "We need to play exciting running rugby!"

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results"  Playing younger and younger players, while the trend is clearly downwards and expecting improving results is insanity.

I know there will be the , "but Matfield" choir. But just do the comparison of the Bulls without Matfield this year (where they were pathetic) and the Bulls with Matfield (where they were at least competitive).
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
09 Dec 2014, 10:43
#34
09 Dec 2014, 10:43#34
Thanks for your effort troof but all this has been sucessfully countered many times.Forunately Bakkies and Jaque retired knowing they were past it. Steenkamp hopefully is history. matfiled must retire now and Meyer must understand what he has in his arsenal.oupa was a quota selection. One wonders though whether Meyer could not have played Carr a better player but not black enough?Not asking for too much just what is blatantly obvious to any sane person. Weakning iour pack and not playing Pollard were blunders. Not giving Senatla, Allende or Kriel a chance even against Italy etc was bad thinking. So many geriatrics have been brought back. Add in Juan Smith as well. 
No Meyer did not distinguish himself this year and very precious time was lost.
Up your game Meyer - bring in some decent support coaches to help out. Too many bulle pals methinks. You need to get in the guys who are real experts. Above all get rid of that pap show pony and pay no attention to the troof! Thanks
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Dec 2014, 10:51
#35
09 Dec 2014, 10:51#35
 The Trooth Fairy
The above is a repeat of the BS Mozart normally spread.  The downward trend started to set in when Meyer went back to Botha and Matfield at lock - we lost whatever solidity we had in the Tight 5 and consquently lost competitiveness up front.   Matfield is physically-deficient and his line out work is down to the absolute minimum for any lock.   That is the basic reason for the problems we encountered recently.
The other myth is that the Bulls did better because of Matfield.   The Bulls did better because they change their flyhalf.   Matfied was pathetic in for instance the game againstthe Stormers and equally pathetic in the CC.
I am not in favour of only one game pattern for the abckline - there should be variation in play.  The idea that the backline should only play wide runningrugby is a fallacy and is never applied.  Itis used by some members on the sirte as a scarecrow and is then said to be blamed for the losses this year.   Neither is a kicking game the answer - especially since the kicking players - like Morne =- is widely erratic and poor in effectiveness.
The game plan should avoid predictability at all costs.   variation is normallythe reponsibilityof the flyhalf as pivot.  The variety should include -
*   Flyhalf attacks in the pocket - Pollard, Lambie and Goosen are all known for that -  Morne never does;
*   strategic and effective kicking -  Pollard, Lambie and Goosen are all known for that -  Morne is grossly inaccurate at the best of times;
*   backline attacking move by passing the ball to the inside enter and allowing him to run at the opposition defnders aiming at the gap between the two opposition centers - not straight at the first defender; and 
*   backline attacking move by spreading the ball wider.
What should be done is to avoid predictability - which completely nullify the effectiveness of any backline.   We have for years suffered from the dreadful dead backline syndrome because of Morne Steyn - and that is a fact.   
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results"  Playing players who has been defective for years, while the trend is clearly downwards and expecting improving results is insanity.


   
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
09 Dec 2014, 11:21
#36
09 Dec 2014, 11:21#36

The Truth, those same youngsters beat the All Blacks.


But what is also pertinent is that new combinations take time to develop, Reinach, and Lambie should have played continuously since 2012 when Morne was so poor in the RC.


The midfield last year had JJ at 13.


The tries are down due to the pack being monstered on regular occasions this year. Many of the missed tackles came from Jannie du Plessis and Jean de Villiers to name a few.


The win rate is worse this year than last year for a number of reasons, not just due to new combinations.


ANd using Mohoje as an example of a younger player is nonsense, not one person here agrees that he should be in the squad.


Willie le Roux had a poor year compared to last year, his defence has been woeful this year, Hendricks has poor defence.


And even with those defensive lapses they only conceded 19 tries in 13 matches in 2014 compared to 19 tries in 12 matches in 2013.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Dec 2014, 12:59
#37
09 Dec 2014, 12:59#37

Troof you are making no sense, throwing the odd young name in does not paint the true picture.

 

We don't have enough youngsters in the side, our side is dominated by washed up hasbeens and when Meyer does select the youngsters he shows no faith in them.

 

Its pathetic the way he has treated the likes of Pollard, Goosen, Hougaard, de Allende, JJ, Nkanyane, Lood etc......you cant expect these guys to find their feet after 2 or 3 tests and one would think that their performances after those handful of tests was so bad that they no longer merited selection.

 

Its clear Meyer only feels comfortable with the players he knows, he is not willing to trust the obvious talent of the youngsters we have.

 

Its now a case of bring back Morne, Kirchner and du Preez......the man is pathetic to say the least. His conservatism knows no boundaries

TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
09 Dec 2014, 13:55
#38
09 Dec 2014, 13:55#38
" The Bulls did better because they change their flyhalf.  "

Hmmm, yes okay, from Pollard to J-L Potgieter. And then it improved. Let's stick with that! ***Keep this in mind***

"The Truth, those same youngsters beat the All Blacks."

With a little help from a friend... And it is now great to beat the All Blacks, but not care about losing to the likes of Ireland and Wales? Or it is okay to look like amateurs against Argentina and Italy?

"Its pathetic the way he has treated the likes of Pollard, Goosen, Hougaard, de Allende, JJ, Nkanyane, Lood etc...."

Yes. Pollard who nearly cost us quite a few tests this year to be saved by Morne, Lambie and a TV producer... And did cost us a test against Ireland, when again ran into the first defender he saw.
***Oh, and according to Mike when Pollard was replaced by the average J-L Potgieter at the Bulls, the Bulls did much better.

Goosen, uhm yes right, who was in the first receiver position twice against Italy and made the wrong decision both times. Against Italy! FFS!

Hougaard, who is by nature more confused than any other rugby player on this planet. That never worked on his kicking skills. That never worked on his passing accuracy. Or his tendency to knock on balls from scrums, mauls and rucks.

De Allende was injured for most of the internationals and only recovered later. I did not see anything wrong with Serfontein's play in any case.

JJ was piss poor this year, the full year, every jiffy of every second of the year. Although his defensive stats improved, he was 100% useless on attack and offered zero outside of the Pollard and J-L Potgieter, both "running flyhalves". Understandable that he was not selected based on such pathetic play.

Nyakane not Nkanyane. He was a lazy fat (___) that was punished for being undisciplined (late for flights and other team activities a repeat offender at the time )... Still he was selected as number 2 and did get opportunities.

Lood showed nothing in the Cheetahs team in the S15 and he showed exactly the same in the test he played in. A weak jelly-like babyface with absolutely nothing to offer. Maybe if he goes to the gym a bit over the festive season he might toughen up a touch!
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Dec 2014, 14:20
#39
09 Dec 2014, 14:20#39

Oh what a load of crap regarding Pollard......hell he beat the AB's on his own and was one of the few ok players against Ireland.....hardly meriting a discard after one solid test and a few outstanding ones prior.

 

What wrong decisions did Goosen make, stop making things up....sounds as bad as Morne saving us, what utter rubbish.

 

Oh so now Hougaard is confused.....so of the 61 passes he made against Ireland in the rain where 4 were poor, you now define his passing as inaccurate and poor......so against NZ and Oz the weeks before where his passing was spot on, you choose to ignore that do you........you sound like a Meyer clone, as equally ignorant.

 

de Allende was not injured when he was in the test squad, he got dumped by clueless Meyer after a handful of tests.

 

JJ received the ball on average 5 times a game in the S15, that's called perspective......something you are devoid of taking cognisance of. JJ was outstanding with ball in hand for the Boks last year......that should have been the measure.

 

Bullshit regarding Nyakane, the Cheetahs camp confirmed there was nothing wrong with his fitness.

 

Oh so Lood makes the s15 side of the year playing for the poor Cheetahs and he did nothing in your books......that comment alone sums up your rugby ignorance.

 

You clearly know stuff all  

TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
09 Dec 2014, 15:01
#40
09 Dec 2014, 15:01#40
"de Allende was not injured when he was in the test squad, he got dumped by clueless Meyer after a handful of tests."

Oh yes! Thats right. After we nearly lost to Argentina when he played in combination with Pollard in the backline. How could I forget that!

"Bull[removed] regarding Nyakane, the Cheetahs camp confirmed there was nothing wrong with his fitness."

Did I say something about his fitness? He is fat and that's a fact. He was dropped because he missed flights (sleeping late) and missed team video sessions.

JJ received the ball only 5 times per match outside the great running flyhalves! How is that possible? Was he in the stands, chatting up girls, when he should have been running in support?

I see Hougaardt's one poor pass, just after the match, is now up to four. I see progress. Six more weeks and we'll be up to 10 poor passes. I'll wait!

Goosen's one particular decision stands out in my memory. We were on the front foot with all the momentum with us. He kicked an up and under from the blind side. Italy got the ball cleanly and sent us back to our 22.

Lood. LOL! Must be his nickname "lead" that does it for you, but his games were unimpressive at best. Planet Rugby in fact had Stephan Lewies and Jacques Potgieter as locks. FOX Sports had Sam Carter and Sam Whitelock. So, it appears that the "side of the year" is merely a selection made at the local watering hole...
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