Bryce Lawrence has given up refereeing, citing death threats from the vitriolic South African public as the reason. Click here for the full article.
Pity because he was a thoroughly decent bloke and a very competent referee. One wonders who will be the next world class referee to have his career cut short by the hate-filled and excuse-making Yarpies?
Good riddance. One question........ everyone including BL admits that he was responsible for a massive stuff-up, so why did he receive the NZ ref of year award ?
Don't worry. The Kiwi's have another one in the winds. His son was a referee at the recent 7's.
Yeah. That's terrible news. Its a real traversty that saffas misdirected anger has ruined bryce s refereeing career. Never mind that the Boks geriatric RWC squad were a rabble of inept and incompetent blow hards. Instead of laying the blame for their farcical RWC campaign at the feet of the responsible parties they revert to their default defence mechanism and blame the poor ref. Only this time they took it to the extreme. As the gap continues to widen between the fanboys deluded perception of the boks and the reality (that the boks are just a decent 2nd tier rugby team) so festers the rabid fury and psychopathic rage in the hordes of seething fanboys.It's only a matter of time before some Saffa nutter makes good on some of these threats and seriously maims or kills a Kiwi ref or All Black player. It's time the IRB reexamined SA's inclusion in international rugby. A cast number are clearly far too hot headed and imature to deal with and accept the shortcomings of their national team which is a shame for the decent bok supporters out there.
Nukefreekiwi
Bullshit baffles brains - in your case utterly the case always. SA did not terminate Bryce Lawrence' s career - the IRB did it - because he was grossly inadequate. He did it all himself and now has apologized about it.
I never ever said Bryce Lawrence was responsible for the loss against Australia in the WC. I actually blamed it on having too many rugby "geriatrics" in the team.
By the way - the awarding of the referee of the year award to Lawrence shows either one of two things -
* New Zealand's refereeing standards are atrociously bad - if he is the best they have; or
* it was a pay-off time for services rendered.
I do believe it is the first one and not the second.
By the way - the article is the normal bullshit published in the isolated and inwatd-looking New Zealand environment - much like the Suzie bullshit in the 1995 WC. Nobody is stupid enough to threaten a person that has self-destructed his career himself in any event. Even the Crusaders would not have him as a referee anymore. Decent bloke he may be - incompetent referee he definitely was.
Without getting into a heated debate with you kiwi's over this, just watch that Aus vs SA game and even more, get a competent person to photo shop the Bok jersey to look like the AB's and watch the game and tell me what you think. If you think what went on there was fair, I am giving you guys way too much credit on your knowledge of the game.
Its a fact, he was a blatant cheat and his career was ruined because of it. Rightfully so. No place for guys like him in this game. Ask yourself this, had Craig Joubert blew that way in the semi final, what would you kiwi's be saying?
I will never wish a man dead over a game of rugby but I am very pleased he was exposed and his career left in tatters. He has never been a good ref and a gentlemen like John Smit (who never has a go at the ref) came out and said that the best thing about retiring is he will never have to be reffed by Bryce Lawrence again.
Good riddance Bryce. I hope you find sleeping easy for the rest of your life because if you have a conscience, that is not gona be easy. Just hope it was worth it.
Mike if you cant see that BL cost us that game many times over then I am amazed.
BL and Paddy did a job for nz and now are history. Lets hope it never happens again.
Craig Joubert was poor in the final and handed the game to the abs. Nowhere near as bad as BL but definitely favoured abs as the French so bitterly complained about afterwards and as the Moz You Tube Clip showed. We are also not squeaky clean in my view.
Bobbok that is precisley the question they cannot answer. By the way glad you were telling certain oaks how correct I was re the SA Conference trophy!!! Hahahahahahahaha talk about double standards.
"I got told at the end of the World Cup that I would have a break from test rugby for the Six Nations and I could totally accept that as there has to be a consequence for poor performance."
Bottom line he was crap and was fired from the being an international referree. If a player had played as badly as he refereed the game he would also have been fired or dropped for good.
He was even getting pressure from Australia who believed that South Africa should have won.
He is not the first person to have a negative fan page on Facebook, and he will not be the last.
He is just trying to blame others for his poor performance. He is a poor referree who had a negative impact on the World Cup. Most neutrals agree that South Africa should have won the game with ease
Pity because he was a thoroughly decent bloke and a very competent referee. One wonders who will be the next world class referee to have his career cut short by the hate-filled and excuse-making Yarpies?
Ka Mate - that whole article was Bryce basically admitting that his decision making process and judgment calls were influenced by outside pressure and the stature of the game he was involved in. He also explained it happened on more than one occasion. If that isn't enough to disqualify an international ref I don't know what is - the real reason for his retirement is his own self-awareness of his inadequacy to perform impartially at the highest level.
Having said that - the reaction of some Bok fans to the WC quarter final is obviously unacceptable and for someone's life to be threatened over what is ultimately a game is overboard.
The man made some mistakes but IMO it's the boks inabilty to cross the line while dominating stats is where the main blame should lay, a problem still prevalent a year on and is what Saffa's should really be frustrated about.
Oimatey has nailed it on the head.
BL was brutal, and either he needed a break from the game, or needed to go. His decision making process was all wrong, was being influenced?? or had left his mind. I never blame losing a game on the refs, but my god, that Aus Bok game was a debacle, probably the worst reffed Rugby game I've seen, but for people to threaten someones life over it is disgusting.
Brycy what a legend and karma at its best Lawrence...put yr feet up mate...we all know the boks were kak and you were the perfect skapegoat....the boks are still kak proving the best team won the WC after all ...end of story...
Oh please! How was Wanye Barnes not worse in 2007. At least BL didn't miss what can only be called an NFL pass it was so far forward.
@allblacknblue
I don't know if you're talking to me, but I've only been watching rugby(other than the WC) for about 2 years now. Here in Canada we have to pay a hefty price to get Rugby(other than the WC) on TV. I've just purchased the channel about 2 years ago. As for watching the WC, I would really only be interested in Canada playing.
I've played Rugby my whole life though, and that Aus Bok game was brutally reffed. Pocock could have shot a Bok and gotten away with it. Sadly, I'm sure there has been worse though.
i dont think that lawerence was corrupt, but i do think he was incompetent and i wish him all the best.
theres a preception that the IRB kicked him off for being incompetent too, but thats not quite true. when the june test series came around, lawerence was asked by the IRB about reffing international games and lawerence said he would not ref any games in SA, because of this the IRB were left with no choice but to remove him and that was the official reason, though it was highly suspected that lawerence would have been removed anyway.
at ITM level, lawerence has had some good games, but he did have some shockers in the spXV, but nothing that was a bad as maurius jonker in the brumbies game against the bulls.
IMO in regards to both the 2007 quater finals ABs vs france and the 2011 quater finals Boks vs wallabies, both teams had done enough to win, but simply didnt.
lawerence didnt tackle schalks burger and force the knock on which led to a try and he didnt hurt brussow who while a class player, is not someone u can rely on to last the whole 80mins. nor was lawerence responsible for appointing PDV as head coach of the Boks and starting j smit over bismarck.
in 2007 All Blacks started an injured carter who when he came off injured (no surprises) was replaced with evans who was also injured. the All Blacks were also very complacent entering that match, richie McCaw in his latest book mentioned how they didnt even have a back up plan to go for drop goal or what have u, they arrogantly expected to go out and smash the french and the rest as they say is history.
in the All Blacks case, the errors from 2007 have served the All Blacks well to date, theres no more complacency from the All Black spartans when facing their opponents.
in 2011 when the All Blacks played fiji for the first test of the season, constantly going through their training was what if we lose to fiji, that mentality has held them in good steed and its little wonder that since 2008 All Blacks have only lost 9 test matches, 5 to the Boks, 3 to the wallabies and 1 to those damn french, lolz.
@canrugby,
how popular is GSP and brett the hitman hart in canada, are they as big there as they are in other parts of the world???
Sasu
I still don't think that Lawrence was good enough to remain on the international panel - any referee that after a disastrous game and must go for psycholohical treatment because he messed up so badly - does not deserve to be on the panel. If O'Brien in fact wanted him back on the panel - he surely acted on his own and not with the blessing of the IRB. In any event - there were other referees that buggered up badly in earlier games as referee - but afterwards reffed many games in SA - without any unpleasant consequences.
I think Lawrence possibly suffer from delusions about the issue of reffing ub South Africa - and in general I am glad he is past tense.
Where I do agree with you is that referees are human and they all have off days - but never to the extent that Lawrence managed to achieve.
Sasue,
GSP is massive. We have a Sports channel that has a yearly poll on who the best Canadian Athlete is. GSP won it three consecutive times in 08,09, and 2010. That's over our best Hockey player named Sidney Crosby who scored the game winning goal for Canada in Overtime to win the Gold medal in the 2010 Olympics. So ya, he's huge
Bret Hart is well known, and every sporting fan knows who he is, but not on a scale like GSP.
@canrugby,
im a huge MMA and wrestling fan and i love GSP too, the ultimate professional and comes across as the nicest guy in the universe.
that ultimate figther where he and koscheck were the coaches was one of the best, where koscheck did everything he could under the sun to piss him off but to no avail, and GSP just smiled and said well see, such a classy athelete whose class is surpassed only by his skills as koscheck found out the hardway when he had a buffet of of GSP jabs the whole match and was not even able to travel home until the swelling in his eye had subdued and was off training for 6 months, o_O wowsers, bet he wished he kept his big mouth shut now, lol.
i remeber back in NZ i went to a nightclub where there was a canadian bouncing at the door and being super friendly when im drunk i asked him if he had heard of brett hart and he replied, oh yeah of course, hes a candian legend, for some reason that was at the time the most facinating peice of news i had ever heard in my life, but im going to say that alcohol played a huge part in that, LMAO, :P
LOL - Ya, you were sauced.
I wouldn't call Brett Hart a Legend. But he's definitely famous, and has a big following. Depends on who you talk to I guess.
I don't follow MMA, but from what I've seen and heard, GSP is a class act to say the least. Tons of respect for him. He deserves everything he gets.
Mike, you are way too accommodating of bullshit. Time and time again kiwi supporters take digs at the Boks and rip your posts to shreds with their tainted beliefs and you take it like a champ. Real gentlemen and you must be commended on that but lets call a spade a spade here...
Bryce Lawrence is a filthy cheat and he was exposed and action taken against him. The man (if you can call him that) himself admitted to making a lot of mistakes but added, I blew the way I saw it. So he constantly saw it in the Aussies favour? Bullshit Bryce. You are a cheat and the whole world including the Aussies know it. Only Kiwi supporters wouldn't admit it because thanks to you, they dodged a massive bullet. I still believe the truth about that game will come out in the years to come as it always does (look at Lance Armstrong situation) but that matters little now. Result is in the book. NZL needed to do something to make sure they didnt have to face there biggest foe on a stage where we know they love to choke.
All AB supporters will say they fear Aussie more but its funny how when Graham Henry and co are interviewed and asked "which team do you take the most satisfaction from beating?" The answer is always the Boks. We read on a daily basis on this blog, Kiwi's creating new forums about how great they are. What are they trying to gain from that? Do they want us to admit something that we dont believe is true.
Our dominance of world rugby came at a time when you could select the best players in the country, they were not on big salaries and endorsements and there was no political influence. Rugby was rugby and we were king. The past 20 years the AB's so love to talk about comprise of quota systems, quota coaches, external influences, coaches being told who they needed to pick as opposed to who deserves to be picked.
There has been games where Jake White has been told to select Januarie ahead of the best 9 in the world Fourie Du Preez. Let me ask the AB's this. Would they ever be told to select Lima Sopoaga over the best 10 in the world Dan Carter?
Give us a break with how great you guys are. The fact that our rugby is so tarnished with politics and we still compete on the same level as you should be a worry to you. Take those pressures away with a good rugby coach with good assistants (White and Eddie Jones) and you boys would be playing catch up. We not in awe of your team. Maybe the fact that your only external pressure comes from the fans but not your team itself. Your record is due to circumstance rather than prowess.
Boklogic, Bok fans vilify Lawrence but when the AB's toured SA before isolation, your refs were fair from impartial especially in the test arena, I can remember 1 test where the AB's were robbed of victory by the ref which would have squared the 4 test series, so please don't act as if NZ refs stuff up, your refs have a longer history of it. You state that your dominance came when you could select the best players, however not if you were a player of color TOURING South Africa from say New Zealand. The other fact is you say you compete with us on the same level but its sporadic now and then stuff, just look at the win loss ration since re-entering rugby, the political arguement only goes so far, rugby is a team game take what you have and play the best you can. So many times I've heard that there is so much talent avaliable in SA but it's not being selected. The Springboks want to win as much as the AB's you mean to tell me that after the years of the AB's beating the Boks that the administration would continue wanting to lose rather than win by selecting the best players avaliable. If this is the case then Bok rugby is in trouble. The AB's win because they realise they don't have to focus on forward dominance they focus on playing a winning rugby, whereby the forwards win enough ball for the backs to score, Dunedin and Pretoria should have illustrated this nicely.
@boklogic,
really, even the aussies know it??? direct quote from the rugby club marto after the quater finals,,,"of course the south africans are complaining, u would expect nothing less from them"
and kiwis dodged a massive bullet??? pfffffffft perrrrrlease, get a grip cos ur starting to believe ur own tripe. when was the last time the Boks beat the All Blacks at eden park??? 1936, i mean FFS, there cant be too many people still alive back then when that happened and those that are, im sure 50% wouldnt even remember, LMAO.
while i yawn at ur post, i would remind ut not ignore the fact that the All Blacks have never lost in eden park during the professional era, or that entering the RWC the Boks had only won 10 of their last 24 games, or the fact that the Boks have only won 3 of their last 10 games against the wallabies, including a loss to them in SA and OZ in 2011, so while they played better then the wallabies, it dosent necessarily gurantee them a win, just take a look at the dunedin test this year.
ive maintained since halfway through the 2011spXV that the wallabies when fully fit are as good as the All Blacks, but they obviously have serious issues with depth.
the Boks are a strong team, but player for player, theres too many flaws in that 2011 team, starting with the geriatrics who have little value. nothing wrong with playing older players, but theres plenty wrong with playing old players who offer nothing, i mean j smit over bismarck, pffffft, i guess that was lawrences fault as well, LMAO.
one thing id find hilarious is the what if game that u guys love to play, pull ur head out ur ass and stop dancing with the faries in fantasy land and just deal with the pure facts, unless ur saying that its lawerencs fault for the SA issues with rugby, lolz.
and FYI since 2000 the Boks have won 9 from 29 games against the All Blacks, u have recorded losses to scotland, ireland both of which the All Blacks have never done, not sure what u mean by competing on the same level??? each to their own and i dont expect nor do i care wether u give the All Blacks their due, but the record is due to the circumstances, LMAO,,,glad to hear that the All Black victories have the added bonus of heaping misery on some right tools.
oh one more thing, All Blacks were the most successful team in the amateur era and are the most successful team in the professional era, so im not sure where this dominace of world rugby comes from, but hey, lets just blame lawerence if it helps u sleep at night, over half of SA already does.
j smit over bismarck, BAWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, :D
Polyboy, thanks for your reply but I thought I pretty much covered that response in my initial post. Of course Boks never want to lose but if the "political" card can only be played so much, why was it that England and New Zealand win the world cup and their coach gets knighted. SA win the world cup and the coach gets fired and replaced by an incompetent coach. Its greed. The SA rugby bosses (who have most likely never played the game) saw an opportunity to get a quota coach in there whilst we were world champs because how much worse can he make a champion side. If we had the management NZL rugby had, Jake White would still be at the helm with Eddie Jones and our rugby would be in a good space. As Eddie said, the right guidance and structures in place and SA rugby would be in a league of its own. We have the size, the strength, the skill, the kicking game, the defence. With the right leadership and the coaching, that would all start to click at once as it began to in 2007.
Read Jake Whites book. It says a lot of what he and the team had to go through each week building up to a test match. He makes reference to how in awe he was of Graham Henry and co as the only dilemma they had to contend with leading up to a test match was what they were gona have for lunch before the game. He refers to the harmony in the Boks team being on edge all the time because players were being left out for players who were not as good and all the rest. I am actually onto Graham Henry's book now because I want to see how different things were.
Sasuke, thanks for your reference to Marto from the rugby club but I am talking about the majority of Aussies, not that panel of the most biased Aussies I have ever seen. Anyone who is honest with themselves could see that game was rigged.
History means nothing in a WC. France should have beaten the AB's in Eden Park (Thanks Mr Joubert) and we know the AB's love to choke on the biggest stage of all so I am confident that Bok team would have strangled the AB's then but thanks to kiwi's favourite Bryce Lawrence, we would never know. AB's are consistently the best team in the world up until the WC so dont try use history as a definer.
Boklogic, I really do respect and like the Bok team, but obviously not as much as the AB's. I sympathise with you guys regarding the quota system, I don't want to get in to who is better between our nations but would like to ask if this quota situation affect other sports as well?
Polyboy, that I can not answer for sure but like everyone, I have my thoughts on it. I am not racist. I have plenty non-white and black friends but I think SA is crippled when it comes to the top level of sports. This is why.
Our Netball team. We should be doing a lot better than our recent result to NZL. Our country breeds girls like Irene Van Dyk yet we lose to NZL by cricket scores. We should be having nail biters with them. That is a culmination of half arsed players with coaches to match. NZL has professionals in all aspects of sport. They grow each sport in the country from grass roots up and have passionate and dedicated people in the right places. SA has greedy, money hungry people that want the status and its just a job...Sport is passion and commitment. Not a job.
Our hockey teams. We are actually hard to watch its so embarrassing. You can not tell me that that is the best we have in a sport mad country. My sister went to school with Marsha Merescia (SA girls captain) and she was not even the best in the school team yet she has made it further than any other girl from that school. Even at school she was selected to represent at age group level over white girls that were better athletes. Its all about transformation and numbers there. That shows through in our results.
Blacks and whites in SA have had equally opportunity now since 94' so there is no excuse for quota systems anymore. If a coloured kid was 6 years old in 94', he would have gone to the same schools as a white kid, same education, same coaching. He would now be 24 years old which is about 3 years older than most these professionals are starting their careers anyway so odds should be even bout now. The best players in each sport should now be able to be picked based on capabilties.
In rugby though, its not the players, we have so many black players that are unbelievably talented and deserve their recognition. Its the coaching systems. The bosses at the top are there for the money and they ultimately pull the strings...
Great posts Boklogic! We are sitting on trillions of dollars of mineral wealth but are doing everything we can to chase investors away and we have huge unemploment problems. Man if only we did what was right so much could be achieved. One could go on and on about the disatorous policies and endemic massive corruption that bedevil the country (Health education farming power etc etc etc). But its very gloomy stuff.
Poooo I admit it - your rugby admin and the way your country is run is better by miles than ours - sad to say it. We are a land of plenty shooting ourselves in the foot in a terrible fashion - and next election the voters will vote the same oaks into power to continue their appalling governance that steals the future of millions. Our electorate is often uniformed and voting cannon fodder. Cry the beloved cpountry.
The best bit of news I have heard for a long time.
Great for rugby.
RIP ...BL.
I read the latest article on Bryce Lawrence and his explanation why he went ballistic in the Wallay-Springbok game. He now blames the abuse heaped on him by the Australians after the game between the Irish and the Wallabies which he reffed. He was still obsessed by it and consequently was frozen when it came to blowing the SA - Wallaby game.
So he did not at that stage blamed South Africa - but Australia for the resultant fiasco. That is weird - so he buggered up in the Wallaby - Springbok game with what intentions? Did he want to get back in the good books of the Autsralians. If that is the case - then I can understand why he went overboard in the latter test. However, I still believe it was only gross incompetence that caused him to implode.
However, there is one thing I will never understand - and that is the way New Zealanmd Rugby thinks. A failed referee is made Referee of the Year for 2011 - knowing full well that he was inder a cloud - and even advised not to ref any games for the next six months and receive psychological help to restore his confidence.
They have now gone further and appointed Lawrence as Head of the EXCELLENCE PROGRAMME FOR REFEREES of the New Zealamd Rugby Board. Hellfire and damnation - if that is not incredulous - I really wonder what is? Referees Program of Excellence - with a failed referee heading it? Just imagine the incompetence that wpoild come out of that Program with Lawrence as its head. The present crop of New Zealand referees is really the pits - the next batxh would be even worse.
Bryce cheated for years in S15 helping numerous kiwi teams be successful. He made the mistake of cheating the aussies out of the irish game and screwed with the RWC tournament. As a result his bosses told him to make sure NZ didnt have to play Boks in SFs (as they were more likely to topple ABs). So he cheated again and I believe set the game so ABs could play Aussies in SFs. He cheated the Reds @ christchurch this year severely and his track record is one of being a nasty little cheat... A fair bit like Kaplan.....
Redsman
I am beginning to be convinced that with the -
* declaration of Bryce Lawrence as New Zealand Referee of the Year for 2011; and now
* his appointment as head of the New Zealand Programme of Excellence for Referees,
that it is big time pay-off time for services rendered to New Zealand Rugby or some insider trading because of family connections - since refereeing competence cannot be claimed in any way as a basis for such an appointment. .
Both of the above indicates crookery of the highest order and both are basically unethical in the extreme. It really entails a serious reflection on New Zealand Rugby Management.
If it is pay-off time - why is he to be paid? Is it - as alleged by many in both Australia and South Africa - that New Zealand used him to engineer by crooked refereeing the outcome of matches so as to ensure a WC Cup win by the All Blacks or make such a win easier to achieve? If that be the case - then New Zealand does not deserve to be World Champs and they should be ashamed to even claim the title. It is equivalent to receipt of stolen goods ot worse.
Lets accept the above is not the case - even thinking of it is really unbelievable as it represents a disgrace unequalled in world rugby history - then the family connection issue becomes pertinent. That type of thing is an abomination that reflects badly on New Zealand Rugby Management. If there is rot at the top -what is the position lower down?
Nukefreekiwi
The above are serious misgivings. If there is to be an investigation as you suggested - then that investigation should rather target New Zealand Rugby - not anything done by other countries.
Even Australia claim that South Africa could not have lost.
@Mike you have often said that the boks of 2011 were Geriatrics, but the forwards were the best pack in the World and if France could push the All Black in the final, the boks could have taken it. We had PDV as coach which was pathetic, he would not even get a club coaching job in another country
The standard of refeering is poor worldwide, it is so inconsistent from match to match, from referee to referee.
Sharkbok
I have no problem with your comments about referees making mistakes in refereeing - after all they are only human and to err is human.
However the question remains - why is a referee with a history such as that of Lawrence, made head of the New Zealand Program of Excellence for referees - a nice paying job I assume?
Does that not add to the problem of bad refereeing in the world at large and in New Zealand in particular?
...bro, Brycy is a saint compared to some of the refs that have come out of South Africa...anyone old enough to remember 1976 All Black tour of SA?? ...thats what i'm talking about....what goes around comes around and karma kicked you yarpies in the butt...LMAO
Brycy
I asked some serious questions and you come up with utter bullshit as to an occurence in the distant past. The answer is yes - there were biased refereeing many years ago - I can also rermember blatant cases on the part of both South Agtican and New Zealand refs - but that was the reason for introduction of neutral referees in the professional era. In any event it was long before the WC compeition came into being,
The queastion remains - Lawrence flopped badly in the latest WC - why is he appointed to a key position in New Zealand Rugby - that has nothing to do with karma at all. If you have a logical answer - please post it
Just reading some of the bullshit written by Jokelogic on this thread. Firstly, notice how Yarpies are always so vague when they refer to all these alleged mistakes that BL made? Right or wrong, at least the NZ supporters are quite specific about the forward pass that Wayne Barnes allowed, but with the Yarpies it's just a general whine about how BL cheated, no references to any particular calls or incidents.
Secondly, BL actually did you Yarpies a big favour. Everyone knows that the All Blacks would have made the SteroidBoks their blushing prison brides if they'd got to the semi. If (and it's a big if) BL influenced the result of the QF, then he spared you Yarpies yet another humiliating defeat att he hands of your rugby masters.
Yes every team in any sport has games they think they should of won but for the referee or umpire etc....
Thats the nature of sport the referees are only human. The home town ref decissions in the past in South Africa have been well documented. The refs during the cavaliers tour were a joke, France think they were hard done by in 1995 semi final against South Africa, All Blacks v France in 2007 would probably be the worst I've seen, South Africa v Australia 2011 (mind you they had plenty of opportunities to win it). We have had some shocking cricket ones in Australia go against us, soccer has its fair share it's everywhere, you could go on forever. Of course we remember the ones that affect us the most it's only natural. I think you just have to move on there will be plenty more in the future.
I'm with Ka mate, reading some of this absolute nonsense, the bokke's big problem is converting possesion into points, if the AB's had that amount of ball in the QF they would have posted a half centuary and this is a big problem the bokkee STILL have and in part i think that is because the ref hasbeing looked more than your own game. No matter what lawerence did or didn't do you guys still had the lions share, but i can understand how frustrating it must be to watch your team almost consistantly dominate but lose.
The AB's played their final in that semi and i'm sure even a few of the most die hard bokkie fans would agree no team would have matched them that day. as for this tripe about the final, SA would not have have made it passed the semi's anyway so why have that conversation and as for the french I'm not sure what side took the field that day but it wasn't the same side we put 30-40 points on in the pool games and hats off they did a credit to the game that day.
