Mozart
Why did you indicate 2014 as the year of he test? Sure I check that test out and find it amusing - it was outside of his routine performances on both test and Super rugby level,
Look at the average performances he was NOT a loosie. He rather was a slow prop pretending to be a loosie.
You have done nothing about Kolisi that I did not state clearly and no argument about the story of Stander makes you look utterly ridiculous. Best a dvice - stop being prejudiced and start looking at games and performances objectively..
The fact is with ball carries there can be fewer defenders beaten than in more open phases of play. Virtually all carries of Stander is in traffic - so your argument does not really carry much weight.
No use discussing this any further because you lost the argument from the start - your whole point is based on prejudice, nothing more.
I agree with Mike..."Stampkar" was effective in the game overall...your silly stats prove zero...sometimes your straining at gnats takes it totally out of context and perspective...the true assessment of the individual and his contribution to the side and the games must be seen in the bigger and wider perspective of the games he's played..besides .the praises of the character come from more accurate and creditable assessments from certainly more reliable opinions from a rugby audience and experts than a simple arm chair codger "expert" of 71 years that lives in a country that only watches baseball and gridiron so far away since he was 46.
...Here's another team of the tournament ...no sign of Fa latau though for some reason
...IRELAND’S GRAND-SLAM winning scrum-half Conor Murray was the Player of the Tournament in the 2018 Six Nations, according to stats gurus Opta.
Murray was one of four Irish players to make Opta’s team of the tournament, which was announced today and is based on a rigorous statistical analysis of every touch of the ball in each of the tournament’s 15 games.
Tadhg Furlong, CJ Stander and Jacob Stockdale are also included but Ireland’s presence is eclipsed by Scotland who fill five of the places on the team, despite losing two matches.
Wales, England and Italy all have two representatives each, while there are no French players included.
“After each match Opta complete video analysis of every touch of the ball,” the company explained.
“Each action is awarded a points value depending on its relative importance. The player is then given a score for all his actions and this is tallied up over the tournament.”
Explaining Murray’s selection of Player of the Tournament, they wrote: “He was involved in six tries for Ireland as well as completing 93% of his 34 tackles and making 5 clean breaks from 32 carries.”
15. Stuart Hogg (Scotland)
14. Johnny May (England)
13. Huw Jones (Scotland)
12. Hadleigh Parkes (Wales)
11. Jacob Stockdale (Ireland)
10. Tommaso Allan (Italy)
9. Conor Murray (Ireland)
1. Mako Vunipola (England)
2. Stuart McInally (Scotland)
3. Tadhg Furlong (Ireland)
4. Jonny Gray (Scotland)
5. Cory Hill (Wales)
6. Sebastian Negri (Italy)
7. Hamish Watson (Scotland)
8. CJ Stander (Ireland)
,,,,and this from Planet Rugby speaks gushingly of Stander
...8 CJ Stander (Ireland): Another tireless performance by the Ireland number eight, who made 24 carries and 15 tackles. Also scored the second try, showing pace and power to touch down after Tadhg Furlong and Bundee Aki had combined from a set-piece move. Taulupe Faletau was once again excellent in Wales’ narrow victory over France but Stander has been hugely influential and is currently the premier eight in Europe.
...well there you go...Multiple indicators that Stander was in fact the NO8 of the 6 Nations in 2018...how can they all be so wrong i wonder...?? unless of course they're right.
...I also rate Simmonds and Faletau much higher than Stander as far as who's best in Europe but there is no denying Stander was the overall standout No 8 of the 6 Nations tournament as confirmed by superior statistics ...
brycy
Don't bother to continue a pointless discussion with Mozart - he hates Stander for some stupid reason or another - probably because at one stage he was a threat to his hero Alberts for Springbok selection and Dave (Saffex) punted him,
I supported Dave in this and as a pupil from the Oakdale Agricultural High School about 2 kilometers from my house in Riversdale he is highly admired by the locals. He married Ryk Neethling's sister and since Mozart hates SA swimmers as well - that could also be a reason for the hate campaign.
Just forget about it and ignore Mozart when he comes up with rubbish like he did in this thread,
..."i prefer these stats"....cherry picking is confirmation bias at it's best...or worst
...this is true there are far better No8s around the world than him...but like it or not, the simple fact remains that Stander has proven himself to be the No8 of the 6 Nations tournament . ..the stats don't lie...
Mozart - the Almighty - who believes ball protection and recovery is not the function of loosies and that Alberts is a loosie - is desperately trying to prove something here. What it is one can only accept as Mozartitis - the rugby brainless disease. As stated previously - best to ig nore the BS.
Hi All
Irish supporter here, have been browsing your site for a while now especially since the addition to the Guinness Pro. Normally i don't comment but i was a little disappointed by some comments on this thread and hope you don't mind my two cents worth.
I always thought the Irish were the greatest bunch of begrudgers but Mozart you put us to shame. Either that you haven't a clue.
Your argument is that this 6 nations he didn't make a lot of yards so he is over rated. I will ignore the rest of his game and comment on that.
When he plays in Musgrave Park in Cork (smaller of Munster's two grounds) we stand right on the touch line I regularly hear the opposition scream "CJ got it" when he gets the ball. He is always double marked. I never hear it when other players get the ball. They respect and are worried about his ball carrying ability!
For years we have seen his rampaging runs when he is given any kind of space. In his debut 6 nations last year CJ he was a monster and made plenty of yards per carry. (i have a poor memory but i thought you complained about him then also). Last year he played with Sean O Brien who is also an ok ball carrier and they shared the dirty up close work. This allowed both opportunities to go out wide where there is more space.
With Sean injured this year his role has slightly changed. Neither OMahony or Leavy are primary ball carriers so he is now doing most of the the really dirty hard yards up. Every successful team needs a player to do this and he did it like a machine. Playing against the best in the Northern hemisphere he always gave Ireland going forward clean ball. It may be only a few feet but those few feet are invaluable. This is why we respect him so much and why he is in the team of the tournament by most pundits across the northern hemisphere. Conan is good in space but could not do this role and this is why he cannot make the starting 23.
There are always better players out there especially when you are talking about fine margins and CJ may not be the best in the world but he is certainly there are there abouts. He is one of the first names on the Irish team sheet. The second best team in the world (I know for now). He has the respect of his colleagues, the supporters and the pundits.
He is a proud South African and always speaks highly of his homeland. You should be proud that a fellow country man has done so well and not try and pull him down.
Regards Boo
(Munster season ticket holder and watched CJ up close since 2012)
BTW we are very disappointed that Rassie left. The general feeling here is that for the world cup next year SA went from a has-been to a genuine threat. Not sure if he can do his magic in time. I hope not!
Thanks Boorad and welcome - we will really like it if you continue with your contributions.
You must realize that Mozart does have some pet hate players and Stander is one.
In the local area Stander is highly regarded as a person and as a rugby player. he is riginally from George - but he went to school in one of the top rugby schools in SA -the Oakdale Agricultural High school. They have private sector sponsorship and contributions from the local public to develop sportsmen - inclusive of rugby players,
That is why Stander was recruited to come to the school. By th way the school is situated about 1,5 kilometers from my house.
Stander is married to the sister of Ryk Neethling - an Olympic swimming gold medalist.
So do not take seriously the junk Mozart routinely spout on this site, He is addicted to some players of the past and when anybody on the site mentioned a good player coming through being a thread to his older player favourites (one of which was Stander) the hate campaigns on this site start and it never stops. .
Welcome Boorad you comments re Rassie are spot on, an amazing coach.
You are most welcome to that plodder CJ. For some reason occasionally mediocre players get big press and fool the public. I think back to that amazing dud Matfield. I admit i have not seen to much of CJ but whenever I have he has looked innocuous!
Welcome Boorad you comments re Rassie are spot on, an amazing coach.
You are most welcome to that plodder CJ. For some reason occasionally mediocre players get big press and fool the public. I think back to that amazing dud Matfield. I admit i have not seen to much of CJ but whenever I have he has looked innocuous!
Beenoo
Be careful of the above member - he knows more about rugby than you will ever do. He identified the difference between NH and SH rugby spot on. But don't worry - you ate in bad company - Meyer did not realize it either - hence the selection of Louw and some other NH club players. ,
Hey i am not an expert and dont claim to be. Not at this level anyway. I just have a different perspective and see a lot more of the guy. I dont intend to dish anyone especially on their own patch.
Anyway almost the weekend. Munster v Scarlets. We are riddled with injuries and missing our internationals and expect to get a beating (Scarlets really good with most of the welsh team ). They are playing a bit too Southern hemisphere for us.
Very nice post Boorad 1...very constructive and observant with humility and accuracy.
Good too to have an Irish man here and you are most welcome to most and I hope you stay and we hear a lot from you.
You put this endless rant about CJ to boot and did it with facts.
We need you here badly if you can overlook some of the more meaningless rants by some.
I'm a great fan of Ireland as my grandads family were Irish from Cork and grandads brother Clifford A Riordan played for the Springboks in 1910...he was born here but his family immigrated from Cork. I also was informed by an old deceased aunt Molly that we are related to Chr is De Burghs family (his mothers side)...lol.
Ou maaaaikie anybody who has advanced beyond rugby 101 is a genus n your eyes.
CJ s a hapless plodder take i t from Beeno the one who knows.
Beeno
There is a problem here - the "one who knows" is in fact the third biggest fool on site beaten a short head by Mozart and Ceradunce.
I know in your case it is hard to do, but it would help if you start writing something logical please.
Mozart
Just one question - how long did you have to search to find a single stats to try and discredit Stander. Must have been at least an hour.
Why don't you never quote the full stats of a player when discussing that player. At least that would be the honest way to go when evaluating player performance. But it used to be defense stats only you used - but now it seems it is getting more difficult and if you do refer to players in an effort to discredit them it relates to what happened years ago - where you often enough give a twisted account as to what really happened. .
Hi All
Back from a surprisingly good win so all is looking a little better for next week against Toulon. Of course the ref was useless and cheated us from the bp but the kids standing in did really well. We have some hope.
Beeno and Mozard the fact that he was able to carry 96 times in very heavy traffic, no turnovers, taking two players to tackle him almost every time, gained going forward ball and presenting the ball cleanly every time at the highest level of rugby i think is a remarkable statistic. Every major publication, pundit and fans forum in the northern hemisphere agreed. I understand you see it differently and that is the magic of rugby we don't have to agree and long may it last. it would be very boring if we all did.
He is one of your own, he is a proud South African. You may not like the way he plays but i suggest maybe you could give him a little support, We welcome all newcomers to Munster supporters club.
On a final note, delighted to have the additions to the Guinness Pro and expect it will take some time but they will pass your remaining super rugby teams and become a real force. I usually travel to a 5 or 6 away matches a year and finally persuaded to missus that we need to see South Africa. Really excited to visit next year we hear great things about your country. Have a nice night and hope my head isnt too sore tomorrow.
You are indeed to be congratulated on the Munster win. I could not watch the whole match and was following the SA - Australia cricket match repeats since losing part of the cricket test because of the Stormers - Reds game/ There is a massive scandal looming about the cricket test - the Aussies were caught cheating and all hell is breaking loose.
You are most welcome to visit SA and because of the exchange rate would find it a fairly cheap holiday. I would advice you to make sure you visit Cape Town - all South Africans call it the Mother City. It has some very interesting historic sites (the Castle, Constantia and Boschendal is not only interesting but also entertaining. A Winelands tour is also a must and the scenery is unimaginable. Depending on when Munster play in SA you may even see a rugby game in Cape Town at Newlands.
Then travel along the Garden Route from Cape Town to Port Elizabeth and also see places like Hermanus and Riversdale where I live and I will volunteer to take you to the Oakdale Agricultural High School attended by Stander and to Still Bay - a major holiday resort in the area. Also visit the ostrich farms at Oudtshoorn and the Cango caves near that town. Knysna and the Garden of Eden is also worth a visit.
Aside from that a visit to Bloemfontein - the city of flowers - is interesting and Munster may play a game there as well. Do not forget to include a visit to the Kruger National Park in your tour.
Anyway - if you want to contact me I will provide you with contact details - just ask on site for it.
Interesting enough - you will find on this site a number of prejudiced members - who dislike Stander for some reason or another, so don't worry too much about them.
.
Nope Boor ad We need to move away from plodders here in South Africa. Ou maaaaikie is sadly stuck in the past! One of his many failings!
I am stuck in the past - that is a new accusation. applicable to Mozart - not me. I preferred Stander to the greatest plodder of all - the useless Alberts. With other players it is a toss-up since as clearly stated above the NH rugby situation is different and Stander may not be as good in SA conditions.
