Clarkson best tighthead in the game

Okay Draad I have just presented Chat’s conclusion that illegal tactics which Porker claims Clarkson used, don’t benefit the team and tactics that do are legal and very subtle

Read that sentence two or three times so it sinks in and now tell me why I’m digging. But you entered the arena it wasn’t your fight, so don’t run away as you usually do with your tail between your legs. Justify your statement.

Keep digging Moffie - you should not have to read about a pre engage

Rugby people know it exists and it’s pretty fucking obvious that the prop that gets a slightly earlier hit has an advantage

Helloooooooo

Keep digging old man

He doesn’t get an advantage unless he is legal…..that is the Chat conclusion having surveyed the entire internet on the subject.

Oh what utter shit - of course any prop gets an advantage with a pre engage as you get in the initial hit

It’s obvious it’s beneficial

Chat is about as reliable as a fish out of water

Fuck me according the Chat - PSDT has effected the odd turnover, which he clearly has never done

No you don’t because one players anchored by his front row partners can generate successful force….Chat is is very lucid on this:

1. Biomechanics

A prop’s force is transmitted through his hooker and opposite prop:

1. If only one prop “shoots early,” the drive isn’t directed into the opposition but mostly shears his own bind or collapses the channel.
2. The hooker and opposite prop must be locked and synchronised for any meaningful horizontal push; otherwise, the early prop’s power leaks through his own shoulders or destabilises the front row.

Basically what I told you initially but I suppose when you see bio mechanics your eyes glaze over. I’m beginning to think you are even more stupid than Mike.

And the Steenekamp scrum dominance was a myth…there was one dominant Bulls scrum….but overall the Bulls were penalized twice as was Leinster while Clarkson was on the park.

Mozart

You are not stupid - you are totally ignorant when it comes to rugby - in other words you only spread shit on site,

Mozart

You are not stupid - you are totally ignorant when it comes to rugby - in other words you only spread shit on site,

So what rugby did you ever play Clever….did you even make the Riversdale High School team?

You are a fucking joke and what this evidences is how little you know about rugby

Fuck me it’s obvious to most rugby followers how important the engage is. So if you can work an advantage that counts in your favour

A pre engage is one of those advantages you idiot

Go learn the game you stupid old fart

The engage is important if done simultaneously by all players….stop twisting the words again. An engage by one prop ahead of his teammates simply unbalances the scrum.

Pre engage as Chat discovered has to do with body position and bind….not one stupid bugger pushing forward by himself while attached to two other buggers.

You are thicker than Clever Mike and lying through your teeth on string after string because you have lost every argument

No you idiot the pre engage is seconds worth and it counts

Go learn the game

You were talking about micro seconds…..now suddenly there is pre engagement for seconds. The literature which is what Chat summarizes for us is clear….there is no benefit to one prop pushing forward a micro second before his teammates it simply unbalances the front row and misdirects any force. All you are providing is bs like ‘rugby followers’ know. But they are not documented.

BS alert.

I’ve never timed a pre engage old man - get a fucking grip

Chat confirms a pre engage is an advantage - hardly need Chat to confirm that - it’s bloody obvious

More to the point - you literally don’t know the basics of the game - that is very apparent old man

Thankfully you have a fucking high IQ apparently - bwaahaaaa

Here, props are not moving early — they’re loading early:

1. Tightening their bind,
2. Dropping their hips half a beat sooner,
3. Transferring weight slightly forward so that when “set” comes, their legs are already coiled.

No forward movement, no early contact — just readiness.

That’s why microseconds matter: the first fraction of a second after “set” decides who wins the height and pressure battle.

?? Outcome: real, lasting leverage; legal; exactly what “experienced front rows do constantly.”

Oh boy poor old man

Engaging early in a scrum — that is, making contact fractionally before the official “set” call or before your opposite number does — can offer a very real physical and tactical advantage, even though it’s technically illegal under modern laws. Here’s the clear advantage explained:

??

1. Establishing Dominant Body Position First

By engaging early, a prop can:

1. Lock into a stronger position before the opposition is fully braced.
2. Win the height battle — getting the head and shoulders under the opposition’s chest line, which gives upward driving leverage.
3. Anchor the bind more securely, preventing being lifted or twisted on the hit.

Essentially, whoever sets first can “own” the space and dictate the angle of contact.

??

2. Generating Early Momentum (“the hit”)

In traditional scrummaging, the “hit” — the explosive impact on engagement — sets the tone.

If you pre-engage, even by a split second:

1. You generate forward momentum first, transferring force into the opposition before they’re ready.
2. The early engagement can disrupt their timing, making them lose stability or go up/down.

That early surge often wins the referee’s perception of dominance, especially if it looks like the other side is retreating.

?????

3. Controlling the Bind and Shoulder Connection

Early engagement allows a prop to:

1. Sink the bind deeper onto the opponent’s jersey before the other side can resist.
2. Control the shoulder and chest contact point, effectively deciding where the scrum “hinges.”
3. This control often lets you steer or wheel more easily once the ball is fed.

??

Why It’s Penalised

Because it does create an advantage — and because it can lead to collapses or unsafe angles — early engagement is illegal under modern protocols. Referees expect simultaneous contact on the “set” command to protect both front rows.

None of which refers to one prop jumping the gun and pulling out of line…it refers t the whole front row engaging before the opponents.

Oh boy….try again

Wake the fuck up old man - we have already evidenced that one prop can pre engage before his partner - hellooooooooo

He can with no effect….as confirmed by Chat. That’s what you were arguing Clarkson did to Wessels. Nobody is saying that the first team to engage as a unit can’t get an advantage provided they aren’t illegal and penalized. One player engaging before his mates exerts no force because he is anchored by the others and only destabilizes his own front row.

Logical and confirmed in Chat's extensive search of rugby reporting.

I think Wessels should be utilized as a hooker. There are better props around than him in the country, And the Sprigboks are retruning to the Bulls from the Springbok team. and other youngsters coming through.

Bullshit Moffie despite me providing Chat evidence that by one prop pre engaging he gets an advantage, it’s fucking obvious that the advantage of a pre engage by the entire frontrow is the same as one prop pre engaging before his partner

Fuck me are you this stupid. The advantage comes from the early hit on your opponent whether as a whole or as an individual

You hit your opponent early with the engage then all of this applies you idiot

By engaging early, a prop can:

1. Lock into a stronger position before the opposition is fully braced.
2. Win the height battle — getting the head and shoulders under the opposition’s chest line, which gives upward driving leverage.
3. Anchor the bind more securely, preventing being lifted or twisted on the hit.

Essentially, whoever sets first can “own” the space and dictate the angle of contact.

??

2. Generating Early Momentum (“the hit”)

In traditional scrummaging, the “hit” — the explosive impact on engagement — sets the tone.

If you pre-engage, even by a split second:

1. You generate forward momentum first, transferring force into the opposition before they’re ready.
2. The early engagement can disrupt their timing, making them lose stability or go up/down.

That early surge often wins the referee’s perception of dominance, especially if it looks like the other side is retreating.

?????

3. Controlling the Bind and Shoulder Connection

Early engagement allows a prop to:

1. Sink the bind deeper onto the opponent’s jersey before the other side can resist.
2. Control the shoulder and chest contact point, effectively deciding where the scrum “hinges.”
3. This control often lets you steer or wheel more easily once the ball is fed.

You keep confusing getting in position first with illegal motion. Here’s Chats summary:

Putting it together

So you’re right to call out the apparent contradiction — it’s really a terminology boundary.

1. When I said “rarely translates,” I was referring to illegal early hits.
2. When your three-line quote said “microseconds matter,” it referred to legal pre-loading.

The key difference is motion vs tension:

Early motion breaks the scrum; early tension wins 5it.

…….

Remember this, Chat’s key directive….the difference is motion vs tension. You thought you saw motion by just Clarkson…..even if true it would simply destabilize the scrum.

No old man I’m not getting confused about anything - the pre engage is all about a slightly earlier hit on your opponent giving you the advantage

Like I keep telling you, the fact that you don’t know this basic rugby fact speaks volumes for your grasp of the game

An effective pre engage has to involve the whole front row…not one prop. That simply destabilizes that props own scrum….when will you learn?

And I just looked at that first scrum again….Wessels engages at exactly the same moment Clarkson does and after the scrum is briefly stable gets blown off the ball. So I asked Chat to scan the reports, her is the outcome, including all questions asked:

So did Clarkson use illegal pre engage tactics in the URC final

I’m not aware of credible evidence that Clarkson (or any player by that name) used illegal pre-engage tactics in the URC final.

If you like, I can dig through match reports, referee reports, and analysis from that specific final and see whether any commentary or adjudication suggested a pre-engagement infraction. Would you like me to search that?

Yes please do

Thought for 50s

Short answer: there’s no credible evidence that Thomas Clarkson used an illegal pre-engage in the URC final.

What we can verify from match coverage and analysis is that:

1. Clarkson won the first scrum penalty and generally had the upper hand on Jan-Hendrik Wessels. None of the reports describing that penalty (or later scrums) say it was for a pre-engage; they just credit Clarkson for winning the hit/position. RugbyPass+1
2. Post-match analysis notes Leinster won the scrum-penalty count 3–1 from the Clarkson-Wessels battle, again with no allegation of early engagement. RugbyPass
3. Standard reports of the final (Leinster 32–7 Bulls) likewise make no mention of pre-engage infractions by Clarkson. Planet Rugby+2The Irish Times+2

There is fan/forum chatter claiming “pre-engage,” but that’s not the same as a referee call or reputable analysis. On the public record, Clarkson’s edge in that game was legal timing and technique, not an illegal early hit.

…. .

I guess we know where that uninformed forum chatter started. Another complete fabrication

Oh Moffie given it’s you we know your take on that first scrum is utter horse shit

Clarkson pre engages and that’s a fact

It’s not a fact, it’s a bare faced lie, never even suggested by anybody except you and totally not observable even in slow motion. Pathetic…,lying to win rugby arguments.

No you are the fucking liar. I’ve watched that first scrum a few times and Clarkson pre engages - I picked that up the first time I saw the game and said as much

Nothing has changed old man