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Coetzee holds his head high; Rugby 365

Started by Just_win20 REPLIES915 VIEWS· 23 Jun 2015, 07:19
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JW
Just_win
Captain18,570 posts
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
23 Jun 2015, 07:19
#1
23 Jun 2015, 07:19#1
His team might have been outplayed by the Brumbies at Newlands, but Allister Coetzee is proud of what he achieved as Stormers coach. Coetzee's side suffered their third consecutive home Super Rugby play-off defeat on Saturday, with their 19-39 capitulation against the Brumbies following on from semifinal defeats against the Crusaders in 2011 and the Sharks in 2012. However, despite another disappointing knock-out performance in front of their home fans, Coetzee said that he has no regrets about his time in charge in Cape Town. The Japan-bound coach said that he is particularly proud of the way his team has dominated the South African conference and led the way in terms of transformation over the last five years. "I am pleased with my mission, maybe not the way I wanted to end but playing and winning two Currie Cups and three conference trophies, being the best South African side and being the best transformed side, to me that is my job done and I am really happy with that. "It is not just transformation in terms of colour, but it is transformation in how Frans Malherbe becomes a leader, and how Juan de Jongh becomes a leader. "It is not just about skin colour, but if you look at the dynamics of the side and you go to Johannesburg and black guy tells me that this is his team that he supports, then I know that it is the right job that I have done. "I go with no regrets, I go away very pleased that we have won, we transformed and we were sustainable. "We didn't win the big one in Super Rugby yet, I will leave that to the next guy, I have done the groundwork," he said. Coetzee admitted that the Brumbies simply outplayed his side, outscoring them by six tries to one by taking their opportunities and dominating the breakdown. "One has got to take this on the chin, move on and give credit to a Brumbies side that were just better on the day in most departments. "There are no excuses to be made, they are deserved winners. "Obviously we didn't help ourselves with unforced errors, yet again the line-out didn't function well. I think we could have done better with our kicking game which wasn't all that good. "They took their chances, every chance they created they converted. We had so many chances as well which we didn't convert," he explained. Although the Stormers have been the most consistent South African team, Coetzee said that the next challenge will be to show that they can compete with the top teams in the competition in play-off matches, and added that they have the potential to do so. "We have had enough chances to get to play-offs now, we must win it going forward. Maybe with the next coach because I won't be here, but they are definitely good enough to go all the way. "We won the Currie Cup in 2014 and we won the conference this year, so if there is any doubt about who is the best team in South Africa then I don't know what else we need to do. "The focus must be shifted to the next level, we have got depth now we need to keep this group of players together for the next two seasons and then we can contest for the Super Rugby trophy," he said. By Michael de Vries
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
23 Jun 2015, 07:33
#2
23 Jun 2015, 07:33#2
 Its exactly as I suspected. This racist sacrificed our prospects on the alter of the racist transformation alter. This is disgudting and he shoulf be ashamed of himself as should the race obsessed twits who appointdd him. Trouble is are we in for more of the same. If so yours truly will becime a Lions supporter!!!! How can you expect to win playing sub standard players selected because of skin colour?
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
23 Jun 2015, 08:02
#3
23 Jun 2015, 08:02#3
 Thankfully the twit is going!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If he had stayed one thing would be certain. More taking it on the chin because of his racist policies.This explains so much. What happened against the Brumbies was a consequence of his race based policies and because some other race obsessed twits agree with him should be no comfort.
No wonder we way under achieved dispite having so many really good players. It explains also for example why Van der Heever and Pat Howard got such shabby deals.Why we have two lightweigt hookers and why show ponies like Kolisi especially get so much game time.  why leyeds was picked and why de Jongh continues on his merry way and was made captain even!
WP need to decide whether they want to be winners or an extension of the racist anc policies.
If wee coetzee had tried his race based policies in any other country and boasted of it like he has here would be roasted by all and sundry.
The oak disgusts me. Good riddance to bad rubbish. I had said before he was a poor coach but a decent man. I retract that, he is nothing more than a racist bigot. It is alarming that this is what WP wanted. 

JW
Just_win
Captain18,570 posts
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
23 Jun 2015, 08:03
#4
23 Jun 2015, 08:03#4
News Flash - SA Administrators Bungle their Burgle
There is an ongoing investigation into how the sad sap stormers ever got into the playoffs. There are claims that the "burgled their spot in the playoffs". Of course justice was served as they were righteously thrashed by the Brumbies.
This reality check has proved too much for some SA supporters & one in particular has gone off the deep end. As he cast his eye towards the Boks chances of winning any of the upcoming RC games he said:
"The only hope for the Boks lies in the "bent refs"". Of course, there is no point in asking kiwis for phone numbers we are above such things 

Unidentified SA Rugby poster caught offering "rewards for results" to refs.

& the fair-minded kiwi mumbled: "There is no definitive proof it was Beeno"
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
23 Jun 2015, 08:13
#5
23 Jun 2015, 08:13#5
 JW the fact that our team was selected on the basis of race is obviously very funny in your eyes. For me I do not have the words to express my total and absolute disgust. Then the bigot has the effrontery to boast about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wonder how much you would laugh if this happened to your team and you lost because of it.
Ou Jw lacks a sense of occassion . Most insensitive type is ou JW!!
JW
Just_win
Captain18,570 posts
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
23 Jun 2015, 09:13
#6
23 Jun 2015, 09:13#6
Beeno: the stormers were the best of your SA bunch in this S15 season & yet when they lose the playoff game you are ready to dump them & point to race as the issue. 
The reasons you lost include: two top players were not able to play; Brumbies had a style & size that was too much for the wee stormers; your coach was mediocre at best.  You yourself have said as much in many a post. Sorry your team was thrashed but no need to go off the deep-end (again). 
Stormers were not good enough to be in the playoffs in the first place. The system was rigged to help raise the fans interest in Oz & SA. You weren't surprised they lost & neither were most of us.
OI
oimatey
Pro1,870 posts
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
23 Jun 2015, 17:33
#7
23 Jun 2015, 17:33#7
Strangely, I think we may end up missing him. Never thought he was an innovator or motivator and his lack of success in the playoffs surely tarnishes the resume but he has had WP/Stormers back in their rightful place as the best SA franchise during his tenure with frequent playoff appearances and/or close calls in S15 and Currie Cup success. That was not the case before his arrival. Upper management changed during his time as well but the results have held steady. I always thought he was a good manager of players and felt he had their respect. He certainly has been around enough good coaching to pick up a few things himself.
As for the race policies, while I don't agree with the premise in any way, it is a reality of being a coach in South Africa and you may as well accept the fact and get on with it. The more the ANC's power erodes, the more I expect these quotas to be enforced and strengthened as a political show of force and to demonstrate to their faithful that the ANC is "changing" things. Coetzee at least has the Stormers ahead of the curve on this.

CL
CleanCut
Pro9,905 posts
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
23 Jun 2015, 19:40
#8
23 Jun 2015, 19:40#8
 
Really?? Stormers as rightful South African champs, huh?

I don't suppose you've notice the standard of rugby within the other South African franchises ... hmmm?

Fraid the Stormers don't have much to strut about either.  


AB
ABasquefan
Pro2,549 posts
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
23 Jun 2015, 20:02
#9
23 Jun 2015, 20:02#9
 @beeno
Amazing. Your ability to make excuses ( the excuses that best suits to your mindset as in this case blaming the ANC) and disengage from the reality in your own delusional world is really outstanding. Never seen something similar.

This is all what Coetzee said about race and tarnsformation:

"I am pleased with my mission, maybe not the way I wanted to end but playing and winning two Currie Cups and three conference trophies, being the best South African side and being the best transformed side, to me that is my job done and I am really happy with that. "It is not just transformation in terms of colour, but it is transformation in how Frans Malherbe becomes a leader, and how Juan de Jongh becomes a leader. "It is not just about skin colour, but if you look at the dynamics of the side and you go to Johannesburg and black guy tells me that this is his team that he supports, then I know that it is the right job that I have done. "I go with no regrets, I go away very pleased that we have won, we transformed and we were sustainable."

Nothing to do with all the conclusions that you get from it.
sharkbok
sharkbok
Captain23,284 posts
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,284 posts
23 Jun 2015, 20:13
#10
23 Jun 2015, 20:13#10
I think he is a decent coach, probably better in player management than tactics. 
Rassie and the defense coach Nienabaar were allready in place when he became assistant coach. 
The best thing the Stormers did over the last 5 years or so was defence- where they were the best defensive team in the competition (except for finals.....).
The real mark of a great coach is converting a poor team to a great team. The Stormers did lose some good players Like Habana. Schalk was out of 2 years.
Coetzee was consistent in his tenure and he can consider it a success. He probably wants the Springbok head coach job at one stage- so stating his achievements in transformation- as well as results- could win him some points when he applies in the future.

CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Jun 2015, 07:21
#11
24 Jun 2015, 07:21#11
 There should never be an issue of race in team selection and the fact that Coetzee turned it into a race issue is really disgusting.   Selection should be purely on merit and in that race should not be a consideration.   
Coetzee mentioned De Jongh who should never have been in the team since he was proved to be utterly useless.   Coetzee tried to make him out to be a leader - but a leader does not vanish from sight when facing a strong opponent like he did regularly - even on the game on Saturday.
I would not be over=proud about the Stormers "achievements" - it was basically because the other SA Franchises in Super 15 (excluding the Lions) were so weak.   
In the case of Coetzee it was like in the case of Ludeke getting rid of bad rubbish as coaches.        
JE
JeromeV
Club Pro492 posts
JE
JeromeVClub Pro492 posts
24 Jun 2015, 09:58
#12
24 Jun 2015, 09:58#12
Not sure why some believe there is race bias going on in selections? That's rather disrespectful to the players. The truth of the matter is the non white players such as Carr, Kolisi, Kolbe and others deserve to be in the forefront in the Stormers setup, I watched many of them play at a lower provincial level, they worked hard to get to where they are now to be playing at Super Rugby.



CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Jun 2015, 10:53
#13
24 Jun 2015, 10:53#13
 Jerome I have no problem if players qualify on merit - the problem is with players like Leyds who has gone to the Force and was ultimately not used by them because he was just not good enough. When he came back he was picked for the Stormers and was really inadequate in most games he played in. It is that type of selection that I believe was not good enough at all. The other player in the Stormers team that I have had serious reservations about is De Jongh. I have watched every game he played in for the Stormers and WP over the last 3 years. He is just not good enough because he is physically too small to really be competitive as a 13. He is a hard worker - but that unfortunately is not enough on higher level. .
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
24 Jun 2015, 13:41
#14
24 Jun 2015, 13:41#14
 Mike well said. There can be no dodging the issue. If you donyt have merit as your criteria and pick on colour youare a racist. You will also not pick your best team. The whole point is Coetzee did not pick his best team neither did he recruit player with only merit as a criteria. 
Re the Currie Cup. We ahd far less Boks than either the Bulle or Sharsk and thus our team was alot more ready.
Coetzee's obsession with defence - it took years for him to undertand that his brand of rugby was not the answer. Then he decided to field a microlight backline whose defence was poor and which couldnt score tries. He saving grace was his powerful pack which Mallet rightly said was good enough to win the comp and did sterling work on defence. However the injuries to Vermuelen and Burger and the playing of Bongi ment the pack was badly under manned. He did not have the suitable repalcements becuase of quoita recruitments.All his quota selections nonsense came home to roost. The Stormers were out muscled in the forwards dispite great efforts from Kitshoff, Malherbe Eben and Rhodes the only qulaity forwards. With that happening the microlight backline was brutally exposed. Racist transformation policies were the cause of this debacle and a debacle it surely was. It was quite frankly an embarrasment. 
Of course the hapless kbbs love Coetzee's approach because anything that damages our rugby is  great in their eyes -e.g. also their punting of wee matfield over the years. Ou ab ass doesnt know the difference between excuses and facts - these subtlties are way too much for all kbbs! Bwahahahahahahahaha 
AB
ABasquefan
Pro2,549 posts
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
24 Jun 2015, 17:09
#15
24 Jun 2015, 17:09#15
 @beeno and mike,

where the hell did Coetzee say that he made the team selections based on race? where??
You both are deducing that he did based on nothing. And stating things like:

"There should never be an issue of race in team selection and the fact that Coetzee turned it into a race issue is really disgusting."

based only on your own imagination.

All what Coetzee said is that he has lead the transformation of the side:

"being the best South African side and being the best transformed side, to me that is my job done"

considering the transformation a broader issue than the related to the colour:

"It is not just transformation in terms of colour, but it is transformation in how Frans Malherbe becomes a leader, and how Juan de Jongh becomes a leader."

From this you both deduce by yourselves that the transformation he did can only be through the selection of black players based on the race instead of on merits.
For your knowledge the transformation can be in multiples ways: promoting the rugby btwin the black community, facilitating and teaching the black children the game of rugby at schools so that more black youngs reach the WP-Stormers structures and become professional players,.....
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Jun 2015, 17:45
#16
24 Jun 2015, 17:45#16
 ABF
This is an ideal situation - but the teachers at most schools are lazy and not involved in sport development  of any form.  They are not up to standard scholastically either.   Turn up late for work and leave early.   No extracurricular activity is possible at most schools.   
The few blacks who makes the grade are bursary students at some of the sport schools where they get specialist training.  If they cannot get into those schools their sporting careers are virtually non-existent.   The fees at schools are high and intakes limited - which in fact count against the vast majority of sportsmen and woman.
The Black community for years concentrated on soccer - yet the local soccer teams are poor and the national team worse.   The feeder schools are so poor that the players are psychologically and physically not prepared for a career in sport.
In 2007 I submitted a proposal to Government to facilitate at least one school in each province where potential sportsmen could be developed through proper nutrition, removal of the children from an undesirable environment and through specialist coaching - based on the Chinese secondary school model.   The government was not interested and the proposal fell flat.   
It is far easier to use political norms for team selection than to strive for the natural development of sportsmen and women from an early enough age.   Political meddling in appointments has turned the country in a model for corruption  and as a result the country is not developing - but going backwards. 
That is the unfortunate situation we find ourselves in - not only in sport development, but in virtually every aspect of life,           
JW
Just_win
Captain18,570 posts
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
24 Jun 2015, 19:11
#17
24 Jun 2015, 19:11#17
Note to self : don't provoke Beeno during his period of irrational mourning.                      We hold out hope that his one lonely brain cell will take corrective action soon
DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
24 Jun 2015, 20:05
#18
24 Jun 2015, 20:05#18
 ABasque. It's not what Coetzee said or even did, but what he was forced to do and are not allowed to mention. Not his fault, but race based sellection is a fact in SA, not only in Sport, but in every  little corner of our society. Almost a reversal of years gone by, but not quite there yet.
JW
Just_win
Captain18,570 posts
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
24 Jun 2015, 20:30
#19
24 Jun 2015, 20:30#19
The stormers loss is all explained by racism?
sharkbok
sharkbok
Captain23,284 posts
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,284 posts
24 Jun 2015, 22:55
#20
24 Jun 2015, 22:55#20
Like I thought- He has just thrown his hat into the ring for the Bok job.
He promoted himself as a successful coach and also the best at transformation in South Africa.  
Transformation is South Africa means less white or more black. Being the best at transformation as well as a good coach makes him a strong candidate for the Bok position. 
What I dont understand is why the Stormers want to keep Robbie Fleck. Surely if a team cant attack with their back-line- or only rarely- they need a new back-line attack coach. 
Coetzee: Dream to coach Boks2015-06-24 15:22SHARE THISAllister Coetzee (Gallo Images)Related Links

Lloyd Burnard - Sport24

Cape Town - It may come in the form of another franchise gig, but there are a number of critics who feel that Allister Coetzee's return to South Africa will be as Springbok coach. 

Coetzee jets off to Japan on July 5 where he will take charge of the Kobe Kobelco Steelers, but he has not ruled out a move back to South Africa at a later stage, saying that he was "far from done" with his coaching career. 

Current Bok coach Heyneke Meyer is out of contract at the end of the year after completing 




what would have been four full international season, and whether or not he 

gets another four years will be largely determined by how the men in green 

and gold go at this year's World Cup. 

Coetzee told Sport24 on Tuesday that the opportunity to coach his country 

was something that he had always thought about.

"I would love to do it," Coetzee said. 

"Definitely. Like any young player aspires to become a Springbok. 

I've got a passion for the Springbok side and I had a taste from 2004

 to 2007 with Jake (White, as backline coach), which was special.

"If it's meant to be I will grab the opportunity with both hands and it 

would be a proud moment for me in my life and my career to do that."

Coetzee added that he had not put a time frame on when he thinks he 

will get his opportunity.


"While that's still a dream, if it means I have to go via Japan then I'll do 

that. I think the focus is on my next chapter in Japan and to do my job

 there to the best of my ability. I have not put a time frame on it to chase 

it by a certain time; those are things that are not determined by me."

Turning his attention to this year's Springbok venture, Coetzee was backing 

Meyer's charges to go the distance. 


"We've got a team that can go all the way and I think we've got a good 

coach in Heyneke Meyer who will make sure that everything is in place," said Coetzee. 

"One thing that is out of everyone's control is a bit of luck. 

I've seen World Cups won and lost because of that ... hopefully this year 

we have that luck. I think we have the players and the team and the experience in terms of the pack."



DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
24 Jun 2015, 23:04
#21
24 Jun 2015, 23:04#21
 Nope, the Stormers loss was due to a poor performance by the whole team. Rugby in  general in South Africa has always been held back by racism in varying degrees. Nothing new. I think all true rugby fans resented it in the past and is still pssstoff about it. To imply that it is of no consequence, is just as much against the spirit of the game than blaming it for all that is wrong with rugby in our country. Hope that helps.
— END OF THREAD —

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