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Cosatu at it again

Started by clevermike21 REPLIES932 VIEWS· 13 Aug 2015, 23:07
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Aug 2015, 23:07
#1
13 Aug 2015, 23:07#1
The following from News24:-
"Springbok rugby coach Heyneke Meyer wants to preserve white privilege, Cosatu's national office bearers said on Thursday.

"It is time for the SA Rugby Union to transform," first deputy president Tyotyo James told reporters in Johannesburg.


"Rugby is a sport for all people in this country and not for certain people, as some think."

He said the issue was that although players of colour were selected for the Springbok team, they were benched.


Tyotyo used Springbok wing Lwazi Mvovo as an example.

"They put them (black players) on the bench and switch for instance a fullback, who is a white player, to play wing and leave Lwazi Mvovo, who is a specialist in that position outside. We say as Cosatu, that cannot be," he said.


There were many black rugby players in the Western Cape and Eastern Cape so it was not about a shortage of players.


"The coach of the day wants to preserve white privilege," said James.


So teams must be selected on the basis of "many black players" - with nothing to do with performance as a requirement.    We have seen what is happening with affirmative action in other spheres of employment - the standard and quality of work performance goes down the drain like its unbelievable and the service delivery is destroyed.


The same organisation is responsible for the destruction of the SA economy - hand in  hand with their racist agenda.   They are part of the protection of looting and fraud system by too many of their members.


This is the reason why governance of SA is in chaos and the country is in serious decline on all fronts.  So why should rugby be excluded from their destruction programme?   Soccer is a joke with one of the worst team performance scenarios in Africa - so is cricket - and the next on their destruction list is obviously rugby.


Just as an aside as an example - I tried to buy gas for use in my gas stove today and found out that the gas supply system countrywide has collapsed.   Afrox claim that the refinery providing gas to them cannot provide gas because Cosato members at the refinery are on strike and nobody knows when the refinery will be operational again.   Another sign of collapse of the SA economy orchestrated by the same people.

                    

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
14 Aug 2015, 02:40
#2
14 Aug 2015, 02:40#2

 Listen, attention seeking Mike, I'm sick of your sensationalism......here....care to comment....and FFS sake if you have the balls, don't tell me how sorry you are.

Apartheid-era crimes still haunt us August 13 2015 at 01:30pm
By Angela Mudukuti Comment on this story SUPPLIEDHelen Joseph leads a march by more than 20 000 women to the Union Buildings in Pretoria on August 9, 1956. File picture

An accountability vacuum remains for the families of many of those murdered under the regime, writes Angela Mudukuti.

August 9 marked national Women’s Day – the day that 20 000 women marched to the Union Buildings in 1956 to protest against pass laws under the apartheid government. What better opportunity to commemorate other women who were part of the struggle, such as Nokuthula Simelane.

Simelane was a 23-year-old university graduate with a promising future.

But she put her country’s freedom before her own ambition and acted as a courier for Umkhonto we Sizwe, the armed wing of the ANC, moving between Swaziland and South Africa.

She was abducted, tortured and forcibly made to disappear by members of the security branch of the former South African Police in 1983.

Simelane was captured after being betrayed by a fellow comrade, who she was meant to meet at the Carlton Centre in Joburg on the morning of September 8, 1983.

Instead of meeting her comrade, she arrived to find members of South Africa’s security police waiting for her. She was abducted that day and never seen again.

The security police drove her to the police barracks in Joburg where she was kept in a small secluded room, tortured and abused.

Several days later she was moved to an isolated farm where the torture continued. Simelane was shackled, beaten beyond recognition, kept in unsanitary conditions and in solitary confinement.

The security police tortured her for more than three weeks in a bid to break her spirit and turn her into an informant.

Her family have been unrelenting in their quest for answers and in 1996, a police docket was opened.

Five years later, in 2001, the amnesty committee of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC) heard testimony from certain security branch police who were granted amnesty for her abduction and torture, despite the fact that the amnesty committee found they had been dishonest about the brutal torture endured by Simelane.

In addition to blatantly misleading the commission, no one applied for amnesty for her murder.

In pursuit of truth and accountability for the murder and torture of Simelane, her family delved into a long process of correspondence and engagement with the post-apartheid National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) and the SAPS, including requesting a judicial inquest into her death.

Despite repeated requests, correspondence and meetings with the authorities, little progress was made and no decision to either prosecute suspected perpetrators who did not apply for amnesty, or hold an inquest, was made by the NPA.

Having exhausted all options, on May 20 this year, Thembi Nkadimeng, Simelane’s sister, filed an application before the Gauteng Division of the High Court seeking to compel the National Director of Public Prosecutions (NDPP) to make a decision in respect of the disappearance of her sister.

The application also cites the national police commissioner, the minister of police, the minister of justice and correctional services, and the suspected perpetrators – Willem Helm Coetzee, Anton Pretorius, Frederick Barnard Mong, Timothy Radebe and Willem Schoon.

Coetzee, Pretorius and Barnard Mong have indicated through their attorney that they will not oppose the court application, while Radebe and Schoon are yet to file any papers before the court.

Radebe and Schoon are also the only two suspected perpetrators who never applied for amnesty before the TRC.

Apartheid-era crimes and the lack of accountability continue to be issues the country faces today.

This case highlights the fact that though the TRC process was crucial for a peaceful transition from apartheid to democracy and equality, it was by no means perfect.

Amnesty was granted even to those who did not fully disclose the truth, in direct contravention of the TRC’s own laws.

This has left an accountability vacuum and many unanswered questions for the families of those who were murdered under the brutal apartheid regime.

The lack of prosecutions thereafter, despite the TRC handing over a number of dockets to the NPA for further action, has added insult to injury.

While the previous NDPPs have not been very helpful with regard to this case, there are indications that the recently appointed National Director of Public Prosecutions, Advocate Shaun Abrahams, is willing to give this case the appropriate attention it deserves and to find an amicable solution that aligns with the principles enshrined in the constitution of South Africa.

Positive developments in this regard include the fact that the NDPP and the minister of justice have finally agreed to set up an inquest before the high court.

The NDPP has a responsibility in accordance with the terms of his office and with regard to the spirit and purport of this vibrant constitutional democracy to do right by those who sacrificed their lives for the freedom of this nation.

It remains to be seen how matters will unfold, but what is clear is that the Simelane family are in great need of answers and closure.

Having recently celebrated Women’s Day and taken the time to commemorate the great women who have shaped the nation, let the story of Simelane, and others like it, remain in our hearts and minds.

* Mudukuti is the international criminal justice lawyer at the Southern Africa Litigation Centre. She has worked at the International Criminal Court in the Hague.

** The views expressed here are not necessarily those of Independent Media.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Aug 2015, 03:57
#3
14 Aug 2015, 03:57#3
 Denny
I am not sorry at all - no need to be.  I have faced many serious problems because I was in opposition to the NP government for years and my services in the Public Service was terminated as a result in 1985.   I gave them a lot of headaches - so much so that at one stage I advised the then Solidarity Party in the House of Delegates to vote against the Bill to imdentify people for past illegal conduct.   I went so far as to give them exact reasons to vote against the Bill - you can check that one with Farouk Cassim - if you doubt it.  He was the lead speaker on the issue and gave the exact reasons I provided to him the Sunday before the House of Delegates voted on the issue.   De Klerk had to call a special sitting of the President's Council to get the Bill approved.  That was just one example why I was constantly facing tapping of my phone, a break-in into my flat when nothing was stolen, but papers of mine spread all over the flat and me being tailed by the Security Police.  I am not sorry I did what I did and have no apologies for what I did.
From what I have written shows that I am not in favour of crimes not been punished - and that includes anybody who have committed such crimes.
I could never have been regarded as a supporter of the previous regime and was for years a member of the ANC as well.  However, since Zuma - who I know personally - became president I lost hope in what is going on and you have to face facts - things are getting worse.
Denny I am not a racist and I regard racism - whether practised by anybody as being wrong.  I do not mind any players playing for the Springbok team - provided they are their on merit.       
          
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
14 Aug 2015, 04:42
#4
14 Aug 2015, 04:42#4
I never ever thought of you as a racist, Mike. I'm not defending COSATU or the ANC, however, it's my opinion that you feed the racists on this site who conveniently turn a blind eye to the fact that they supported the Neo Nazi Nationalist Government who had an unashamedly racist policy and murdered anyone whom they believed to be a threat or detained anyone under the 90 day or 180 day suppression of communism act withoutcharge. And that would be just for speaking out against Apartheid.
I believe the ANC have been given enough time to deliver, it serves as a corrupt government and it has failed on several fronts but I'm very wary of the fact that unlike the Apartheid regime they serve all of the people of South Africa not a select ethnic  minority group.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Aug 2015, 07:45
#5
14 Aug 2015, 07:45#5
 Denny 
Granted - sorry I started the thread  If you ask the ordinary people - especially also the Africans - they will tell you the ANC nowadays serve not the people and does not look after the people.  They only serve a small clique of people in the top positions in the country.
If you go to News24 - there is a speech by Mmusi Maimane on the Marikana story - you should listen to what he said in Parliament about that one.- try the following link:-
http://www.news24.com/Live/SouthAfrica/News/The-Marikana-men-werent-just-miners-they-were-sole-breadwinners-Maimane-2015
 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
14 Aug 2015, 08:16
#6
14 Aug 2015, 08:16#6
Great post Mike and spot on re the racist and very inefficient anc. They are busy looting the country and bringing SA down. The only thing that surprises me Mike is you didnt know the the anc was corrupt and immorsl from day one. Corruption started from day one under old mandy. The anc death camps while in exile etc. These halfwits desttoy everyting the manage. Best ensure you have sports like tennis and golf ti fall back on and immigrate if you can. Imagine immigrating to nz thought! A nightmare of course but better than living under a totally corrrupt self serving inefficient anc? Kkbs clucking in your ear everyday!!!!
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
14 Aug 2015, 08:30
#7
14 Aug 2015, 08:30#7
 Anc serve all the people. Hahahaha best refrain from commenting denny if you have no clue. The anc have been a disaster and their holocast on unborn children and Mbekis AIDS programme has led to far fsr fsr more deaths than apartheid. Lets not use the past to excuse tbe anc. At every turn they use the race card and blame the past to civer uo their inefficiency and looting. The auditor general said R 30 billion a year was wasted through bad procurement. Thanks for raising the topic Mike the more the anc is unmasked the bettrr for all. I complement you on being man enough to see the wrongs being done and not continuing to support the anc for personal gain as so many of their supporters do.
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
14 Aug 2015, 09:19
#8
14 Aug 2015, 09:19#8

 Beeno
Get off this thread you racist Twat!
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
14 Aug 2015, 10:34
#9
14 Aug 2015, 10:34#9
  @TannieEvita

No electricity, no gas, no mail - and now what's left of the post office has run out of petrol? Are we in an Ama-Disneyland of disaster?


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
14 Aug 2015, 13:10
#10
14 Aug 2015, 13:10#10
You still running Denise....run rabbit, run rabbit, run, run, run 
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,282 posts
14 Aug 2015, 14:33
#11
14 Aug 2015, 14:33#11
@Denny
I don't think that past injustices can be used to justify the current ones.  

Like many people my age and younger, I left South Africa largely because of affirmative action and transformation.

Yes I also wanted to see other countries in the world- but I will never go back to South Africa to live- because of the ANC government and their transformation policies.
I was too young to vote during the NP rule- so I hardly supported the NP government. 
Yet I am being persecuted for the crimes of Apartheid through reverse racism. If I went back to South Africa how long would I have a my own company or even a job - before I am made redundant because of the colour of my skin. How far will affirmative action go? 99% non-white?
It just sounds like the people at the top of the ANC are looting the country for their own personal gain- not the people. 
Zuma is building a palace for a King while the rest of the country does not have the basic necessities like electricity.  

Although It is easy to comment living outside the country......
I assure you if my electricity was being cut off while the rich live in luxury- I would be complaining regardless of where I live in the world or who ever the government was or is.
I currently live in England (May move to Australia in a few years)and if I never had electricity I don't care about the politics of a bygone era- I just want fckin electricity.
England is not as liberal as many people think. They have a small minority that go to private schools as kids. They are taught the queens Engish in these private schools-which is the golden ticket here. They will allmost certainly have an easy life in England- and will often inherit land as well. 
Rugby is only played in private schools, and not public schools. This is one of the many divides that are created between private and public people in England.Their is an Apartheid in England with Public people and Private people. 
The rest "working class" majority are lumped into public schools where they will allways be at a disadvantage from a young age. 
All this matters for nothing if my electricity is cut off..... 

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
14 Aug 2015, 16:32
#12
14 Aug 2015, 16:32#12
 

@Sharkbok


I don't think that past injustices can be used to justify the current ones. I don't believe anyone has, it is a matter of correcting the imbalances created by Apartheid rule. Give me an alternative to transformation and affirmative action.

Like many people my age and younger, I left South Africa largely because of affirmative action and transformation. I was forced to leave South Africa because of my outspoken beliefs and because I was warned by Captain Andries Van Wyk that he would make sure that I would never be allowed to work.

Yes I also wanted to see other countries in the world- but I will never go back to South Africa to live- because of the ANC government and their transformation policies. I had no desire to leave the country of my birth...none whatsoever.... I had close family ties.
I was too young to vote during the NP rule- so I hardly supported the NP government. 
Yet I am being persecuted for the crimes of Apartheid through reverse racism. If I went back to South Africa how long would I have a job- before I am made redundant because of the colour of my skin. How far will affirmative action go? 99% non-white? I feel for you but that said my own family are suffering the same experience. And yes you are quite right in demanding a level playing where race has no bearing on merit selection. That should be the ideal, not the colour of  skin.
It just sounds like the people at the top of the ANC are looting the country for their own personal gain- not the people. Totally agree....and I've indicated as much in an earlier post. It's also not only the top brass in the ANC.
Zuma is building a palace for a King while the rest of the country does not have the basic necessities like electricity. Agreed about the palace. I'm not a Zuma or ANC fan, in practice they've ditched their own charter. Still, he's there by majority vote.

Although It is easy to comment living outside the country......Everyone is entitled to an opinion, I find yours quite reasonable but in some parts misguided.
I assure you if my electricity was being cut off while the rich live in luxury- I would be complaining regardless of where I live in the world or who ever the government was or is.
I currently live in England (May move to Australia in a few years)and if I never had electricity I don't care about the politics of a bygone era- I just want fckin electricity. Under the previous regime people living in shanties had no electricity, they now have. As a matter of fact black people are being better serviced with electricity than under the Apartheid regime. This  has put pressure on the grid , however, it does not excuse mismanagement by the ruling party in not addressing the problem earlier rather than later.
England is not as liberal as many people think. They have a small minority that go to private schools as kids. They are taught the queens Engish in these private schools-which is the golden ticket here. They will allmost certainly have an easy life in England- and will often inherit land as well. 
Rugby is only played in private schools, and not public schools. You suffer a distorted view of Apartheid, the example you quote is a social issue not a legal one. Apartheid was written into law, any kid in England can go to a private school if the parents had the funds. BTW the same experience exists in Australia.This is one of the many divides that are created between private and public people in England.Their is an Apartheid in England with Public people and Private people. 
The rest "working class" majority are lumped into public schools where they will allways be at a disadvantage from a young age. 
All this matters for nothing if my electricity is cut off..... 
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,282 posts
14 Aug 2015, 16:53
#13
14 Aug 2015, 16:53#13
@Denny some valid points. 
The Apartheid government were a crime against humanity- a total atrocity- but they have been gone for over 20 years. 
One of the reasons that I reject definitive religion was it was used as propaganda to support the racialist policies of the NP government.  
What I fear is that things could get worse in SA with the likes of Cosatu promoting racism to further their own economic goals.
It could be a case of history repeating itself again.... 
I recently heard that Zimbabwe are now encouraging white farmers to take back land that was repossessed from them. Not sure how true this is?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Aug 2015, 17:10
#14
14 Aug 2015, 17:10#14
SB
The Zimbabwean issue raised is really funny.  Mugabe swears no Whites will ever own land in Zimbabwe again - his Depuy President Mnangagwa is trying Whites to remain on the farms and they have recommended that some White farmers be allocated leasehold farms and that others retain their present properties - but nothing has been confirmed yet because some political bigwigs want the farms that shows some level of productivity. .
However, politically Zimbabwe is in a state of chaos with the Zanu-PF party split into an ever-increasing number of factions and nobody knows what will come up next.  The economy is in a worst state of chaos and factory and business closures happening on a daily basis.  There are increasing signs of starvation, since the Zim Government has no funds to import food.  Whatever comes in is looted by Mugabe and his cronies.
Instead of trying to solve the economic problems Mugabe is visiting countries all over the world and never paying any attention to the destroyed economy.   Despite the attacks on foreigners earlier this year - the flood of refugees into SA is in fact increasing as things gets worse in Zimbabwe.            
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
14 Aug 2015, 17:23
#15
14 Aug 2015, 17:23#15
 Getting worse?...hope not but who knows what the future holds?
We tend to forget that this is Africa.....
I believe the middle class will sustain the country, the Westminister system will hold up, the DA is growing in popularity but above all they vigorously need to address poverty. By reducing poverty they'll reduce crime. COSATU is just a trade union movement, nothing more, England, Australia have all had the same experience of trade unions.  
I also don't  believe the ANC has had a grip on how to move the country away from thinking along racial lines.....that I find sad. About the Zim farmers... I believe they were offered 99 year leases plus equipment in Mozambique and apparently it's working well.  Mate, there's lots I can discuss/ debate with you, and I love to, but we have to respect that we're in the wrong arena to do that.....so thanks for your views but I'm off to watch our boys in the cricket.  
AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
14 Aug 2015, 17:29
#16
14 Aug 2015, 17:29#16
 Denny.....I am agree with a lot of your comments.
We left RSA because we did not agree with the system in place and also understood that it was going to go nowhere fast.
But most of the bloggers on this site are fair minded individuals who support rugby in RSA irrespective of the color of the player.
All we want is to see is the best in Green and Gold and not the rest.
Trust you have a safe landing in OZ as it really is a great country as well.
Just wanted to add that my wife is also called Denny.......
Cheers.

KA
KalaedFreddieClub Pro495 posts
14 Aug 2015, 19:54
#17
14 Aug 2015, 19:54#17
 Nee man! We do not need to start a political fight. Two wrongs will never make a right!  We need to focus on the game. But to force a coach or SARU to include players just because they were (not even them) previously disadvantaged.  It is unfair to the player, the fans, the sponsors, the coach (who is performance measured) the other players and opposing teams.
Our biggest problem is that the government and Cosatu are trying to hide their inability to have been proactive 20 years ago by starting at schools. Still today there are schools with no facilities while Nkandla is there in all its glory. To hide their inability they are making a lot of noise and blaming the past, 20 years later.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Aug 2015, 20:04
#18
14 Aug 2015, 20:04#18
 Welcome back Freddie - I agree fully with you on this one
AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
14 Aug 2015, 21:47
#19
14 Aug 2015, 21:47#19
 KF you have hit the nail on the head.
Unfortunately politics and sport are always used to the advantage of some elements in society.
A pity but that's life today I must admit.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Aug 2015, 06:40
#20
15 Aug 2015, 06:40#20
Just a thought - bearing in mind what happened in the Mitchell case a few years ago - the question is is Jantjies involved in the moaning with Cosato?  It may well be the case.   
KA
KalaedFreddieClub Pro495 posts
15 Aug 2015, 07:52
#21
15 Aug 2015, 07:52#21
 My bru, Jantjies both of them, nê are bad hatchlings. They are vrot man.  Good rugby players but they are real gangsta mentality even worse than that skelem Williams who is involved in the Arora scandal.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
15 Aug 2015, 11:29
#22
15 Aug 2015, 11:29#22
 Guys, I'm no fan of the Jantjies bros,  but you guys are overreaching a bit here.  COSATU are political scoundrels and they are exploiting a struggling Bok team to gain a bit of cheap publicity ahead of next years elections.  Cheap trick.  The Bok emblem will also come under fire any day now. 
— END OF THREAD —

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