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Crusaders, serial cheats...

Started by green23 REPLIES473 VIEWS· 18 Jul 2012, 12:56
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GR
greenClub Pro179 posts
18 Jul 2012, 12:56
#1
18 Jul 2012, 12:56#1
From an article in NZ's Rugby Heaven site. Serial cheats Crusaders prosper by conning refs

 

MARK REASON Last updated 05:00 18/07/2012         620               Share   433 IAIN McGREGOR/ Fairfax NZ

AH, BUT YOU DON'T BIN SIR RICHIE: Crusaders skipper Richie McCaw being spoken to by ref Steve Walsh.

Opinion

NZC bosses should fry over sending raw Caps Serial cheats Crusaders prosper by conning refs Blues job a tough assignment for John Kirwan Bulls won't change tactics for Crusaders The inevitability of Tour De France sabotage London scores first Summer Games hat-trick Lin deal shows there's no room for sentiment Simple remedy to Super Rugby's TMO fiasco No encores for awful Waratahs Bulls' eye-gouging claim rouses Crusaders

OPINION: Twelve months ago thousands of neutral rugby fans were backing the Crusaders.

After the horrors of the two earthquakes, we hoped Christchurch could derive some shreds of momentary joy from the performance of their rugby team. No more. Some of us now hope that any team but the Crusaders wins the Super Rugby.

Richie McCaw's post-match eloquence and decency is in contrast to his coach's one-eyed remarks and hides a multitude of sins. Too many of the Crusaders intimidate referees, take cheap shots at the opposition and serially cheat around the ruck and maul.

It is a cultural malaise that is presumably encouraged by the coaching staff and sets a terrible example to young players around the country.

Let's deal with the intimidation of referees first, because this is a problem that is affecting all levels of rugby in the country. McCaw says far more than he should to referees and uses his status to influence games.

Too often the Crusaders are officiated by New Zealand refs who are clearly in awe of the man. Instead of telling McCaw to shut up, they hang on every word.

Bryce Lawrence, a ref who facilitated a Crusaders victory against the Reds earlier this season, is the worst offender.

Don't take my word for it. Before the match against the Hurricanes Sean Fitzpatrick said: "Richie has had the wood on him [Lawrence]”.

This is a former All Blacks captain saying that McCaw has control of a referee. Michael Lynagh then added: “He [Lawrence] appears lenient towards the Crusaders.”

After the game Fitzpatrick said: “I thought they [the Canes] didn't always get the rub of the green. I thought the referee was pretty harsh on them on a number of occasions, especially at the breakdown.”

Not according to Todd Blackadder. The Crusaders coach said after his team's defeat: “There were two tries that shouldn't have been awarded, for a start. These things they hurt you and they kill you.”

Even though in the opinion of many, including a former All Blacks captain, the ref favoured the Crusaders overall, Blackadder still gave him the bird.

The Crusaders work on referees as a group. Andy Ellis plays the nice cop, giving the refs a pat, trying to keep them onside. Kieran Read, like McCaw, uses his growing status to get at refs.

How often have we seen his look of wide-eyed amazement followed by a querying, some would say dissenting, shake of his head.

Against the Chiefs, Corey Flynn was warned by referee Steve Walsh for appealing too loudly. Ellis, of course, reacts to his team-mate's rebuke by patting Walsh sympathetically.

He would have done better to have told his forwards to desist because Luke Romano then appealed for a crooked lineout throw and pumped his fist at the opposition after getting the decision. Charming.

Yet unlike the Crusaders, the Chiefs' coaching staff didn't whinge after the defeat. They could have justly pointed out that Romano's try should have been disallowed because one of the Franks brothers was offside at the kick and, far from retreating, was actually trying to play the ball.

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They could have pointed out that Sam Whitelock was off his feet when he drove Ellis over the line, despite Lyndon Bray's very odd assertion to the contrary.

They could have asked why not one Crusaders player was binned as they serially cheated in the final, desperate two minutes. Ah, but you don't bin Sir Richie.

The Chiefs could conclude from all this that intimidation of referees is something that works. How on earth did Vinny Munro award those two TMO tries against the Force at the weekend?

Nathan Sharpe was complimentary about the Crusaders afterwards, while wryly observing: “They scored four tries in the first half. Not sure how they got a couple of them but they did.”

When the points are added up at the end of the season, young, inexperienced, quiet sides like the Canes and the Brumbies lose out. You could even call them disciplined sides, but the lesson is that discipline doesn't pay.

The Crusaders haven't had the best of seasons, but they have controlled enough refs to start the playoffs at home. They shouldn't even be there.

When junior players see the Crusaders prospering through verbal intimidation, is it any wonder that they imitate the country's top players. Last week a Wairarapa ref retired after 20 years because he was fed up with the abuse.

"Enough is enough,” he said. “The union has to ensure that those who act outside the spirit of the game are held to account."

They could start with the Crusaders. Apart from the intimidation of refs, Romano and the Franks brothers frequently hit late and dangerously. The Crusaders forwards are also the most cynical bunch at the tackle area.

When they have the ball, they hold and obstruct. When they are the tackler, they rarely roll away and if they do, it is towards the opposition halfback who they "accidentally" impede.

The home crowd don't appear to care, so long as their team wins. Far too many booed the referee at the weekend when he quite correctly disallowed two tries, one for a grotesquely forward pass, the other when Adam Whitelock was in danger of getting to the tryline ahead of the ball, he was so far offside.

Despite plenty of individual brilliance and decency, the Crusaders have become an unappealing bunch. Maybe something decent died when Brad Thorn left.

Whatever the cause, I hope the Crusaders lose and come back next season with a proper respect for referees.

- © Fairfax NZ News

GR
greenClub Pro179 posts
18 Jul 2012, 12:58
#2
18 Jul 2012, 12:58#2

This article attracted nearly 500 responses from angry Crustaceans....truth sometimes hurts.

CA
carpetmuncherPro1,667 posts
18 Jul 2012, 13:06
#3
18 Jul 2012, 13:06#3

well then the argument is then why are we as SA teams not conning the refs if they are doing to ???? are we cunning enough ???? playing the ref is part of the game so if its common practice then whey are we not using that tactic

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
18 Jul 2012, 13:35
#4
18 Jul 2012, 13:35#4

NZ rugby has a number of rotten aspects to it. But as I noted before by awarding BL their ref of the year award they went too far.

Its great however when someone in the country stands up and says stop cheating!! Its what everyone says to Nz stop cheating - fair go mate etc.

Mark the voice of Reason - well done. Of course the crusties and fellow travellors will be crying buckets of indignation but the truth has to come out and has. Unfortunately we have SA oaks who are crusties apologists.

Go and give them a whipping bulle!!!  Some one put  a tape on mcheats mug!

 

CA
carpetmuncherPro1,667 posts
18 Jul 2012, 13:49
#5
18 Jul 2012, 13:49#5

with paddy o brien on the IRB when offcourse this will happen.....as i said if we cant beat them then join them

GR
greenClub Pro179 posts
18 Jul 2012, 14:43
#6
18 Jul 2012, 14:43#6

Sorry Carpet, I simply do not subscribe to your philophosy of "cant beat them, join them". I think that we should remain dignified and play to the referee and respect his decision and not manipulate the game due to the weakness of the ref. We dont necessarily have to agree with the ref and yes, we can ask for explanations but we dont have to intimidate and disagree with every decision that goes against us.

 

McCheat and co are always playing on the edge of legality, continuosly testing the ref and I'm sick of it. I used to have a lot of respect for the crusties and the ABs, but since McCheat and this modern band of cronies have taken over the helm of their leadership, I detest the way they play the game. Dont get me wrong though, I do not deny their natural talent and ability, but why spoil it with these underhanded and despicable tactics which only go to undermine their ability. Rotten to the core and BL is an idiot for falling into their trap.

 

One thinks that Kaplan was purposely sent to Queensland to officiate just to work on the mentality of the Reds, knowing fully well that he is the most hated ref in Aus. Well done Lyndon Bray...lets just hope that Peyper is smart and tough enough to tell McCheat to take a hike!!!

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
18 Jul 2012, 15:04
#7
18 Jul 2012, 15:04#7

Green I think a lot of Saffers used to respect the abs etc myself included. Not any more. They really do need a moral clean out of their game not only the players but refs as well. Its win at any cost. No we must not follow that route. Rather fight nz corruption.

Tremendous that a nz oke writes an article like this.

CA
carpetmuncherPro1,667 posts
18 Jul 2012, 15:46
#8
18 Jul 2012, 15:46#8

that is what mcheat does....as a fetcher that is his job to play the ref and the rules. winner has the philophosy of playing everything to the extreme letter of the law and use it for there advantage. its not only mcheat its so many of there players entering from the rucks fromt he side laying on the players shutting down rucks you name it.....so how can one sit and complain about it and do nothing about it. i doubt you can indoctrinate a ref to look just a nz teams so if they play it and get away with it then we should follow suite. the ref is the law and if you can bend him to your advantage then why not.

the sad state of affairs are that morality does not win rugby games but tactics and skills does. i have said this for almost 3 years now that AB's play by different rules when it comes to being penalised. they get away with murder yet we sit and complain about it but no one does anything about it.

the ref is part of the game so if we as saffers can one up on the ref and get an advantage by all means just get it done. the AB cheated there way to the RWC final win and it will continue to do so until someone gets that d o o s paddy o brien out of IRB.

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
18 Jul 2012, 16:01
#9
18 Jul 2012, 16:01#9

I don't know what the fuss is all about, as far as I'm concerned this topic shouldn't even be up for debate, yes it's a no-brainer, some of us have been saying for years that McCaw is a serial cheat.....dutifully followed by his teammates. There is nothing to admire about the Crusaders while they deliberately kill the ball at the ruck and massage the offside rule. Their win over the French in the WC final will always carry the mantle of professional cheats.

CA
carpetmuncherPro1,667 posts
18 Jul 2012, 16:11
#10
18 Jul 2012, 16:11#10

everyone knows its happening but no one is doing something about it so i say join  the mob and play the ref then

CA
canrugbyClub Pro640 posts
18 Jul 2012, 22:27
#11
18 Jul 2012, 22:27#11

Unfortunately, this is gamesmanship, and it's part of the game. You can have morals, and keep playing hard and hope that pays off, but people who win, always look for a competitive edge. Look at people who have made millions/billions of dollars in their life. You think they've just done it by working hard? You are seriously smoking some good dope if you do.

 

I'm not saying I like it, but you have to do whatever it takes to win.

 

Also, Pocock should be added in here as well. That guy could get away with murder. His reputation is off the board. I mean he's good, but my god he cheats, and is constantly on the refs.

 

 

RE
redsmanPro1,710 posts
19 Jul 2012, 02:55
#12
19 Jul 2012, 02:55#12

@Green youre right re appointment of Kaplan - born and bred Durban local.... reffing a game between durban team and Aust team - whatever is in that shortman's mind it is obvious he doesnt like Australian teams or players.

Back to the cheating crusaders....... welll for years they have done it and got away with it thanks to a large part because of refs with no balls. When they do penalise the kiwis and they're on the receiving end they whinge so much that the ref is never seen or heard from again.

I would love to see them beaten by the ref numerously and called for ALL their cheating indiscretions to see what other teams have been copping for years...

CanRugby - Pocock is just a good player (look at the fetching stats for the S15 season and you'll see) and for the record so was mccaw. The difference is mccaw and majority of kiwi teams use cheating tactics to turn the balance of games in their favour very often and when they called on them they whinge so much the ref doubts himself.

**LATEST** crusader inspired cheating tactic - running a NFL style blocker 'support' player that runs a line interfering with defending team. They have used it numerous times this year and no doubt given the opportunity will employ it again this weekend.

For the record go the Bulle !!!

CA
canrugbyClub Pro640 posts
19 Jul 2012, 03:10
#13
19 Jul 2012, 03:10#13

@redsman

 

Pocock gets away with a lot. I've seen the stats and i can tell you this, those stats are bloated because of what he is allowed to get away with. Entering rucks from the side, hands on the ball, etc. etc.

Again, he's a good player, but his reputation, and constant bickering with the refs have let him get away with anything he wants out there. I watched the last two tests against Wales, and he would not get out of the refs ear. A LOT of calls went their way in the ruck. Two of which gave them two wins by the skin of their teeth.

HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
19 Jul 2012, 03:19
#14
19 Jul 2012, 03:19#14

who is saying the Crusaders are cheats?

you want to see blatant cheating and dirty play, watch Saia Fainga'a in the Reds vs Sharks match!

RA
radtad1Club Pro273 posts
19 Jul 2012, 09:50
#15
19 Jul 2012, 09:50#15

Wow never have I known a worse bunch of moaning plonkers as those brothers of mine coming from South Africa.

 

Get the phuck over your self and understand that SA need to start catching up and start playing some decent rugby that will dominate the AB's rather than the 10 man shit that everyone thinks will take us to the very top.

 

Until we get out of our head the mentality that brute force will win us everything then we will end up on boards like this moaning about the AB's or Crusties winning and then fall over any stupid phuckn article that goes on about cheating. Trust me everyone you go through every OZ and SA game and ref decision and Bok test etc and I bet you that the stats will be very very close.

 

Move on guys stop trying to find a feel good reason to lessen the bump that will happen when the Bulls take on the Crusties. Whether we like it or not this will be a tour to far for the Bulls

 

BOOM!!!

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
19 Jul 2012, 10:34
#16
19 Jul 2012, 10:34#16

Carpetmuncher the problem really lies with the refs. Of course players will push boundaries but if the ref is biased and has an agenda against your team then he cant be played. However he will allow his favoured side to get away with things.

nz rugby is rotten as we saw with BL and his NZ ref of the year award. The IRB were not buying this rubbish and thankfully both he and his fellow countrymen paddy O'brien unceremonioulsy got the boot by the IRB. How they thought that there would be no repercussions baffles me.

All we need is further pressure on nz to clean up their act and a lot more people like reason standing up and calling it like it is and there is a slim chance tha tnz rugby may reform. Slim becuase as I explained to Hakwa its a genetic thing. Hahhahahahahaha

That said we all love our kiwi friends and are just trying to get these balck sheep back onto the right path. Frankly it must be embarrassing to be a kiwi these days having been so exposed. We are here to help you kiwis! Hehehehehehehehe

 

 

 

LU
ludwigRookie26 posts
19 Jul 2012, 13:49
#17
19 Jul 2012, 13:49#17

 Reason (how ironic) is a complete tosser. He's a poor mans stephen jones. No one should take him seriously... seriously. I actually live in the same district as this twat and when our paths cross I'm going to KO the c**t. 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
19 Jul 2012, 14:07
#18
19 Jul 2012, 14:07#18

Welcome to the board Ludwig. If you keep posting here you will soon be elevated to Baby Bok status from orange peeler!!

Look we are fighting here for a fair deal. For too long nz have been getting away with things even if you think not. For many, including myself, Bryce Lawrence was the final straw.

What part of nz are you from - are you a Crusaders fan? They are a good team and do not need to stoop to cheating. We need fair competent refs and all the rotten apples removed just like BL was booted out of the IRB panel of elite refs. Players will push boundaries but decent refs should deal with this. No favouritism etc.
 

What do you make of the playoffs this week being officiated by SA refs?

HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
20 Jul 2012, 12:10
#19
20 Jul 2012, 12:10#19

McCormick, a former Canterbury Rugby Football Union president, went to bat for his beleaguered buddies.

Canterbury's most capped player had one simple question when queried about Reason's column: "Is he related to a John Reason who used to write back when I was playing?"

After it was confirmed Mark Reason was the son of John Reason, the late rugby correspondent from London's Telegraph newspaper group, McCormick said the column finally made sense.

"He is a lot worse than his father. John was a bit of poison pen back in the day and was always having a moan about something to do with New Zealand rugby and the All Blacks. As far as he was concerned, we were always wrong, and it appears that has carried on through to his son as well.

"I think his comments were well off the mark."

Reason was also critical of Richie McCaw using bullying tactics against referees to sway decisions in the Crusaders' favour, and various other indiscretions around the rugby field.

McCormick leapt to the All Black captain's defence.

"In my opinion Richie is so quick at some of his play that the refs can't keep up with him," he said.

"The good referees know how to handle that well, but some don't and it shows up."

You hear that Beeno? Tell me to slow down if my pace is too much for you to keep up with! I'm also willing to tell Richie and the boys to play at a slower pace so you can keep up!

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
20 Jul 2012, 15:10
#20
20 Jul 2012, 15:10#20

Hakwa allow me to briefly explain the fatal flaw in your offering.

Exhibit 1:

McCormick, a former Canterbury Rugby Football Union president, went to bat for his beleaguered buddies.    (I like the word beleagured - because they are in difficulties given the accuracy of Mr reasons argument. I remember another ab captain like this - Sean Fitspatrick. A whinger of note who never stopped working the ref. Its a nz rugby tradition like the hahahahahahaka

Hakwa my friend need I say more? What would you expect an oak like McC to say? You see Hakwa you kiwis find bias a difficult concept to grasp. You simply dont see it when its right in front of you.

I offer a few simple solutions to this problem.  Firstly, all ab captains to have their big mouths soundly tapped to recognised international standards. Next - ensure there are no kiwi "refs" officiaiting.  Failing these two solutions remove all abs from field of play.

This comprehensive plan I am putting forward is, I suggest, fail proof and is worthy of immediate implementation by the IRB.

 

 

HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
20 Jul 2012, 16:54
#21
20 Jul 2012, 16:54#21

This is what Pete thinks of your opinion Beeno!

 

 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
20 Jul 2012, 19:14
#22
20 Jul 2012, 19:14#22

Hahahahahhahaha Piet loves a laugh. Man that guy could be hugely entertaining but unfortunately that was not his job.  Someone once posted a list of his sayings - sidesplitting stuff.  Miss it on one level!

Hakwa I sense though that you are diverting attention away from the issue at hand painful though that must be. 

I have to let you off the hook as I am  off somewhere. Keep your mind off katie.

 

 

BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
20 Jul 2012, 23:42
#23
20 Jul 2012, 23:42#23

Wow never have I known a worse bunch of moaning plonkers as those brothers of mine coming from South Africa.

 

Get the phuck over your self and understand that SA need to start catching up and start playing some decent rugby that will dominate the AB's rather than the 10 man shit that everyone thinks will take us to the very top.

 

Until we get out of our head the mentality that brute force will win us everything then we will end up on boards like this moaning about the AB's or Crusties winning and then fall over any stupid phuckn article that goes on about cheating. Trust me everyone you go through every OZ and SA game and ref decision and Bok test etc and I bet you that the stats will be very very close.

 

Move on guys stop trying to find a feel good reason to lessen the bump that will happen when the Bulls take on the Crusties. Whether we like it or not this will be a tour to far for the Bulls

 

BOOM!!!

 

 

Haha well said radtad - Bean Brain you need to listen to your countryman as he seems to be more clued up than most

RA
radtad1Club Pro273 posts
21 Jul 2012, 05:02
#24
21 Jul 2012, 05:02#24

@brycy,

 

I dont need you too tell me or my fellow contrymen about  the situation as there are things about you kiwis that I dislike. However what I really despise is when you get a heap of true rugby enthusiasts and the a  few idiots spoil it when they really say shit that is just so not true and usually it is either bias, ignorance or just someone being a plain feckwit because they cant see pass their own snotty nose.

 

I for one know that the AB's record is the best win ratio record period. Whether SA likes it or not we are always trying to catch rather than the other way around. As a proud South African that hurts that really hurts. What is impressive about the AB's is the fact that their away win ratio is nearly as good as what they win at home and that is another area that SA need to catch up.

 

Ninetheless, we look at our own record and it is true that we are the only nation on the planet that has the firepower, talent and ability to beat the AB's reguarly however not as regular as we would like. I believe we are just a game plan change away but a long mental change from being able to sustain NO1 status on a regular basis. We do need to beat fire with fire in the forwards but they are a complete team and so must we be from 1 to 15

 

The Bulls have a big chance tonite and though history is against them they will play their hearts out but as I said this is just going to be a tour to far. INteresting the Bulls play a very typical BOK style game and the Crusties play a typical AB game so maybe this will give us an insight to the test series coming up. The Sharks have a better chance but this may come down to the last minute

— END OF THREAD —

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