Disappointing England squad . . .

What bullshit, the prem final is this weekend, they hardly play NZ this weekend............he should have had some balls and insisted that he be able to select a full strength side.

As I said before, given the disgraceful squad selected and the insult to NZ that it shows - I hope NZ put 50 points or more over you - its disgusting.....or better still NZ should select their school boy side to play England

 That's hardly a grown up solution, now is it ?
 

Given that none of the Saints/Sarries players have ben in Camp yet, the Prem Final and the England XV matches are this weekend, lots of players are injured ( I don't think he has the power to heal the sick just yet )  and it takes a couple of days to get to NZ, he was hradly going to wait and fly out the team next week, was he ? If he had done and we had lost by 50 points, you would have been saying it was insulting that he had left it so late and we were unprepared !!!
The man is damned whatever the hell he does.

He was actually quite tough on the Rugby pitch, so I'm sure he does have some " balls " as you so charmingly put it.
Some things are actually easier said than done and we just have to take the consequences of the actions of the men in blazers.

I'd rather we weren't going there at all. But we'll learn a few things and a lot of players will be getting an opportunity they weren't expecting to get. Best make the most of things, in true English fashion !!!


And yeah, the schoolboys would win, of course. Because we are so useless. Goes without saying, I mean, we're England, right ? Makes one wonder why so many people choose to come here really.....

Lancaster is a yesman. He is not going to challenge the suits that put him in the position of Coach. However he should not have to, as he is the coach not the IRB or the RFU.
Lancaster was lucky to get the job after not really having much credentials. However even if he did put up a fight, their is not much he can do. 
The Suits just put him in the position as caretaker coach so that they could get rid of him if someone thing went horribly wrong. The 2011 Rugby World Cup was a PR nightmare for England and they had fired their once hero Martin Johnson. 
It was also known as Mike Tindell's Stag Party, and pretty much outdown the other disaster Cricket World Cup Tour by " the Praats of the Caribean" where the shenigans included their star player having to rescued from a canoe pond he was so drunk. 
Surely he would have preferred to have gone to New Zealand with a full strength team. What benefit is going their and getting humiliated one year from the World Cup. 
Saying that they never had a first choice team is not going to get the fans behind this outfit. No one wants to identify with a bunch if losers. 
The IRB should not allow international tours to be scheduled at the same time as club competitions, and both teams playing should not accept the tour if it does not allow for the best players to be playing. 

 Lancaster was put in as a caretaker Coach so they could trawl the world for some mercenary SH man that no true England fan wanted. We made ourselves clear on that point and sanity prevailed. He has been in the England set up long enough and has done a decent enough job at making a fractured and damaged system viable and work again. He's restored some pride and that's what counts, against some pretty stiff odds given the injuries he's had to contend with since he took control. We're happy with him, the England supporters, that is. And we're what counts. 
And you know what ? I'd rather lose with an English Coach than win with a foreign one any day of the week. 

I did not want Martin Johnson as Coach/Manager. And my views were well known on that subject. My views on Tindell were also well documented, including the fact that he shouldn't even have been playing for England still at that stage.
As for the Cricket ? Well, better to get drunk and be rescued from a boat than be a match rigger for a pair of leather jackets, hey ? But I'm sure God forgave him !!!

Crap the only players that are injured are hookers Hartley and Young.......for the rest, your first choice players are available......its a disgrace sending out a 2nd string side to play the best side in the game......its bloody insulting in fact.......nothing more than an absolute thrashing will be justice for such an insult.

England should be banned for international matches if their unions get to dictate that certain players cant be selected for the national side 

Come on the All Blacks

 Oh shut up, Saffex.

Nowell is first choice Wing...he is injured. Hartley has been out for weeks but has just been cleared to play on Sat, if he gets through that he will fly out next week but not play in the First Test. Corbisiero is resting as his injury needs that, Cole is first choice, he is under the knife for a neck injury. Youngs is second choice Hooker and absent for personal matters; his wife is ill...I'm sorry if that offends you, but he is not injured himself. Croft would be out there, but has been given the summer to get fully fit after missing almost the whole season injured. Twelvetrees is first choice at present, he is currently injured and may not be fit enough to start the First Test. Ford would have started at Fly Half in place of Farrell ( who has a sprained ankle and might not play on Saturday ) but he is in a hospital bed too....injured !!! Our third choice Hooker has missed a few weeks out injured, he might not make if for the First Test so we would be thinking of Dave Ward....or Luke Cowan-Dickie. Mike Brown looks to have got over his injury, thank goodness.......
Do you want me to continue ?

Nowell is bloody useless......there must be at least 5 better wings starting with Yarde, Ashton and Watson.
Corbisiero played a full match on the weekend, so is fit to play - end of.
Croft has not been your starter for ages......Billy, Robshaw and Woods have.
Twelvetrees was a flop and is in the squad anyway......Burrell is better and will start at 12 ahead of Twelvetrees if Lancaster has any brains.
Farrell played most of the final on the weekend, so is not on the injured list......bet he plays the final this weekend.
So the only starter missing is Cole at 3, given Hartley returns from injury

 People don't understand English humor. ?

 As a Rugby lover and England supporter..I am devastated..by the whole attitude of England's rugby heirarchy from the governing body to the players...whatever happened to sportsmanship and honour and fair play, gone the way of the Dinosaur. I'm no prude..but the whole thing is a disgrace.. Come on England..wake up! Even the staunchest fans are pissed off with your attitude.

didnt read this thread until now, but heres a link with to the thread where becs and i were discussing the whole nelgand squad drama,,,
England head to NZ to lay down 'huge marker'; by MARC HINTON

i would definitely prefer a full strength england team to come face the All Blacks, but this scenarios is nothing new and is also exactly the same as this time last year when the frnechies toured NZ.
the first test the team was 2nd string B team with the incumbent players either injured or on cup duties, but the last two tests the french were back to their No1 teams.

on the topic, here is an interesting thread/article where hansen would like the test window shifted to july, but this idea fell through, with three members who represented 6nat unions vetoing it.
RE: All Blacks coach wants Test window shift

and also, lets not forget both NZ and SAs actions in the 2011 TriNats. Boks sent a B team to OZ and NZ, and the All Blacks sent a B team to SA, all in the name of RWC preparations.
sir graham henry maybe the most successful coach in the modern era, but that team left a real foul taste in my mouth, as the All Blacks should IMO always play to win.
i beleive the All Blacks can beat any Boks team every single time anywhere in the world, as long as the best All Blacks team is selected.

wallabies played a full strength team in every test, and they became the 2011 TriNat champions. food for thought.
i was always envious of the deanos dingoes for treating every test match in the 2011 TriNats with the respect it deserves, and he was well rewarded for the correct attitude.
pity for the wallabies though (and lucky for the Boks), that the All Blacks would take all that frustration out on them in the RWC semifinals,

 Hey Sas ! Crikey but our SA friends do like to [figuratively } poke each other in the eye eh ? Kinda funny to watch tho' .Lancaster knows full well that even a full strength England at Eden Park is going to be doing it hard , with a team of young 'uns his arse is quite adequately covered win lose or draw despite the machinations of the "men in suits "The only real downside for Lancaster is if his boys get totally hammered and lose any go forward they have built up ,morale could well plummet from a hiding .

 Thank you, Sasuke


As I said, we had discussed the topic...I also discussed it with some of the other posters too over the past week or so.

I'm afraid the Coach doesn't make the rules and gets overruled, it's not his call. So stop with all the blaming him.
In an ideal world, this wouldn't have happened, but I do think it disingenuous to get on your high horses about it and treat those players filling in the positions with such utter disrespect.
The players are at the mercy of the suits and they are the ones that ultimately suffer by having to get out there on the pitch in difficult circumstances ( as Sas says, this is the same situation as the French one last year. I don't recall Saffex calling for them to be banned from playing Internationally as a result of that. Not a surprise ! )

As it stands, Saffex, Twelvetrees has travelled regardless of injury. Burrell, as you must remember, is playing tomorrow, so will not be in contention for the First Test. And whether you think Twelvetrees or Nowell or any good or not is not the point, they are the choice of the Coach. And he is the man we are talking about !!!

He also gave CROFT and CORBISIERO the summer off to rest their injuries; both players having come back to play a couple of matches at the end of the Season to prove their fitness, The injuries are such that he wants them to have a full summer of rest and re-hab, full pre-season and then, hopefully, be fit to play a full part in the season to come.

IF Hartley makes it through tomorrow, he will travel to NZ and play some part in the Tour. But not the First Test. He is, however, rusty as he hasn't played for weeks now anyway.

Marler is currently carrying an injury, as is Mako Vunipola who may or may not play tomorrow.

You can't do much about injuries, I'm afraid, and if any of you think he wouldn't rather have taken a full and fit squad out there this summer and given it a good go, then I think you are deluded.

Admit One doesn't speak for us all, thankfully.

Its a poor show from England and I for one hope that the All Blacks absolutely thrash England, throwing their WC preparation into disarray. They deserve nothing less for this insult to the rugby world - ban them I say. If you cant respect the very nature of test rugby then you should not be allowed to compete until you get your priorities right.

 Oh shut up about banning them !! Did you ask for France to be banned last year ? When their team started the First Test shorn of the players left behind playing in the Top 14 Final ? Do you remember what happened then ? 
England will start the First Test with players like Care/Brown/Robshaw/Morgan/Tuilagi/Launchbury....hopefully Twelvetrees and Marler. Wilson too. Are they insults ? Or are they in the regular Squad/starting XV ? We are lacking Hookers/a regular Fly Half and our Sarries/Saints and the cohesion of the Squad, but to intimate we are sending out an entire XV of total nobodies is rude and insulting.
Regardless of that fact, they are the team and players being sent out there and they will hopefully do their best.Personally, I would rather no-one was touring NZ full stop.And I am more than aware at how destabilising any losses or failures, big or small, could be after the cohesion that has been built by this unit in such a short amount of time. Yet again, the powers that be don't think. They simply want sales of shirts and any other coin they can muster from the brand, I think. But at what greater cost ? 
It would be nice if the world could get their priorities right, really. But that doesn't seem to be the case these days. We all have our own ideas about those. Shame they rarely seem to meld with each others.

A postscript to this is that Mako Vunipola is not playing tomorrow. He is still injured so I don't know how that impacts on the England Tour. They have taken Nathan Catt with them already though as a precaution. Wise, it seems.Insulting, how all our players keep getting injured, isn't it ?  

Yes France should have been banned as well - as I said, I hope the All Blacks give you a damn good hiding - its pathetic

 Ban everyone. Fantastic plan.
Let's put that on our to do list for Monday, shall we ?

 NZ wont buy into this under strength BS. Yes, they are missing some of their star players for the opening test but not for the rest of the series. This is the only team to give the All Blacks a thrashing in recent history. AB will look to crush them systematically one test at a time 
England will not be easy to beat under strength or not. NZ will approach this like they would a Springbok test in South Africa. With a clear plan and purpose. The English will throw everything into this series before the next RWC,  predict a tough series for the AB.

 Mako Vunipola will be missing as he has had surgery.
So that is another absentee from the front row.