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FORUM / RUGBY /  Fat Fransie suspended for 5 weeks . . .

Fat Fransie suspended for 5 weeks . . .

Started by Rooinek59 REPLIES825 VIEWS· 31 Mar 2015, 15:17
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RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
31 Mar 2015, 15:17
#1
31 Mar 2015, 15:17#1

Frans Steyn has been suspended for 5 weeks by the SANZAR Appeals Committee for his tip tackle on Aaron Cruden.


Personally I think it's a bit harsh considering the contributions made by Ryan Kankowski and Cobus Reinach but I'm not complaining too loudly . . . the Sharks 2015 S15 prospects have just improved as far as I'm concerned.


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
31 Mar 2015, 15:22
#2
31 Mar 2015, 15:22#2
Noted.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
31 Mar 2015, 16:14
#3
31 Mar 2015, 16:14#3
Fransie was looking for serious trouble in the game against the Stormers as well and was very lucky to get away without a judicial enquiry.  In looking at that incident again on TV - the role of the other two players were insignificant and I think that is what the reason for the appeal by Sanzar was.
As was proven in the Chiefs game his absence made no difference to the Sharks performance after the Red card - this guy is no loss to the Sharks and his absence would in fact be of assistance to the team.     
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
31 Mar 2015, 16:31
#4
31 Mar 2015, 16:31#4
Another decision made by vindictive bureaucrats. There is no way this warranted more than a yellow card
1 Cruden jumped into the tackle, the fact that he was off the ground had much to do with his own efforts
2 Other players were involved

This was a very dangerous fall. But the fact that it was a dangerous fall, doesn't mean it was an excessively dangerous tackle. Just like the yellow on Hendricks came largely because Halfpenny fell heavily.
These officials are confusing the result with intention or even with culpability. If this continues contesting the high ball will be a thing of the past....as will the heavy crash tackle. Players can't control all the variables and they won't risk it.

This is a petty, vindictive act directed once again at a South African rugby player.


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
31 Mar 2015, 17:03
#5
31 Mar 2015, 17:03#5
 Mozart
Day-dreaming again.   How did Cruden "jump into the tackle" while he was running carrying the ball.  There was no jump - Fransie picked him up in the tackle and the result was dangerous play.   It was not a hard tackle where he left the ground and ended up on his backside or bodily on the ground - it was a dangerous tackle, a very dangerous tackle because Fransie lifted the player up resulting in a spear tackle.
No excuse would help - I agree the sentence was harsh - but to try and say this was a bureaucratic decision aimed to punish a SA player is BS.   This is a clear case of "vervolgings-waansin" by Mozart.  The following extract clarifies the issue:-
*    A SANZAR Appeals Committee, chaired by Terry Willis (Australia) and comprising Nigel Hampton QC (New Zealand) and Robert Stelzner SC (South Africa), has allowed an appeal by SANZAR against the verdict of a judicial hearing that cleared Francois Steyn of a lifting tackle.

*   the decision was unanimous - so where is the evidence that "This is a petty, vindictive act directed once again at a South African rugby player."  
Fransie was playing dangerously in the Kolbe case as well and his irresponsibility was clear.  There was some excuse in the Kolbe case - he may have gone for the high kicked ball in competition with Kolbe - in this case he was not competing with Cruden to catch the ball.
However, the main resultant remains - he will not be missed by the Sharks since his performances thus far in Super 15 were way below par.      
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
31 Mar 2015, 17:30
#6
31 Mar 2015, 17:30#6
How did Cruden jump when he was running? Hahaha ....try watching the long jump Moronic.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
31 Mar 2015, 17:41
#7
31 Mar 2015, 17:41#7
 Anyway - you ignore the legal issues here and is obviously painting a totally BS image of what actually happened.  Hahaha.   Try tell me that 2 QC's and 1 SC ( the latter from SA) is being vindictive without regard to the real legal situation - hahaha.
What a stupid thing the Mozart Supreme Idiot is!!!!!!!    
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
31 Mar 2015, 17:59
#8
31 Mar 2015, 17:59#8
Agreed, the punishment is pathetic......he was carded, that should have been the end of it  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
31 Mar 2015, 18:54
#9
31 Mar 2015, 18:54#9
Dave the punishment is indeed harsh - but not unique.  One of the Highlanders players also copped a five week ban.   
There were harsh criticism of the bans meted out for the same offenses.  There seems to be three norms applicable, namely -
*   The seriousness of the incident coupled to potential bodily harm;*   The contribution of the charged player in the incident;*   The record of the defender insofar as dangerous and illegal play is concerned.
The tackle of Steyn was on the upper level of the section concerned - here the ban is in the normal case 5 weeks - which in this case means four missed matches.   The charged player did nothing to eliminate the dangerous situation that arose  - so no argument in mitigation.
The problem comes with the record of Steyn.   The incidents involving Steyn and Kolbe in the Stormers match were obviously fresh in the mind of the panel members - at least one of which would have raised eyebrows.   Those incidents probably resulted in a decision not to give Steyn a shorter ban based on good conduct of the past.  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
31 Mar 2015, 19:12
#10
31 Mar 2015, 19:12#10
It was a very dubious incident. Cruden  jumped to try and force his way between Reinach and Steyn.  The TMO clearly saw the mitigating factors...the suits saw only their own puffed up self interest.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
31 Mar 2015, 19:28
#11
31 Mar 2015, 19:28#11
 So despite the legal requirements clearly stated - the senior advocates concerned ignored all legal requirements and choose to decide on the basis of "only their own puffed up self interest." Hahaha
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
31 Mar 2015, 19:42
#12
31 Mar 2015, 19:42#12
Ludicrous.
The situation was actually handled quite well in my mind up to this point as the cause and effect was always in question. It requires complete conjecture to assume without the input of Reinach and Kankowski that the tackle would have resulted in a tip tackle instead of Steyn just planting him on his backside. It is obvious the rotation came from the leverage Reinach applied.
Compare this to the other suspensions where there is no question about the incident:
Bismarck - 4 weeks for an obvious kick
Elliot - 1 week for a dangerous shoulder charge on a ruck where the contest was already over. After which he backed up and wound up for a second time connecting with players on the ground.
Triggs - 1 week for a punch in the face
Messam - nothing for his Gracie choke hold long after the ball was gone.

SARU behind closed doors is probably happy this happened as Steyn dared to stand up to them last year over promised compensation.
If this suspension means his salary is suspended as well, he should sue.


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
31 Mar 2015, 19:51
#13
31 Mar 2015, 19:51#13
oimatey
As far as I know the player contracts provides for -
*   remuneration in accordance with an agreed pay package; and*   match fees for matches played by them
A ban would mean no match fees
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,285 posts
31 Mar 2015, 20:36
#14
31 Mar 2015, 20:36#14
Steyn has been getting reckless with his tackles, and Bismaark was stupid for kicking especially anywhere near someones face. 

Messam gets off with strangling a player on the ground but gets no suspension, and he was not penalised during the game. 
When players get suspended it will effect future decisions against them.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
31 Mar 2015, 20:39
#15
31 Mar 2015, 20:39#15

 This had little to do with Steyn and lots to do with authority being challenged. It's a spiteful decision and real rugby men should deplore it. Reinach is probably exerting more force vertically . Steyn's upper body bent forward looks more like the action of a player driving forward than lifting up. And is Cruden lifted beyond the horizontal by Steyn. He looks dead flat to me.

 

Nobody is denying this was a bad fall, but was this Steyn carelessly executing a tip tackle? there has to be some real doubt.

 

 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Apr 2015, 01:09
#16
01 Apr 2015, 01:09#16
What a totally absurd assumption from a person who ignores the legal issues involved, but from a very partisan perspective based his argument on totally unsubstantiated conjecture. 
The question really is - did a dangerous tip tackle occurred - yes or no?  If yes - could Steyn have avoided it from taking place - yes or no?  If the answer is yes to both questions - and the three legal experts agreed on the yes version - what penalty should be applicable in terms of the legal description and precedent.   Is there justification for reduction of the penalty based on good conduct in the past?   
This unsubstantiated conjecture story of Mozart is really a joke in bad taste.   Lets look at the issue from a rugby perspective.    Steyn was contracted for three years with SARU from  April 2012.   In those three years his performance record was as follows:-
*   He started off with seriously questionable performances in 6 of the 2012 tests - basically because he was in poor physical shape.   He got injured and did not play rugby  for the rest of 2012.
*   He was in even worst physical shape in 2013 with absurdly poor performances and his coach (not SARU) decided to drop him from the starting line-up based on poor performance.   After that he had a few bench appearances, played as a starter in another two matches - got injured again and did not play any further rugby in 2013.
*    In 2014 his physical condition remained questionable - and his performances in Super 15 was in the main - as proven both on the field of play and supported statistically  - in most aspects of the game sub-standard.   
Those are facts not conjecture.   SARU and Steyn had a contractual dispute - that nobody denies - but the issue could have been resolved and in fact was resolved by July 2014 after Steyn left the Springbok squad in a huff.   Was the real reason why he left based on the contractual problems or was the issue that due to sub-par performance since 2012 he was not going to be in the team against Wales the following Saturday?   The timing of his departure tends to indicate that the latter was probably the cause.
Be is at it may - it was clear that proven performances on an acceptable level over the three year contract period did not justify renewal of his SARU contract and it lapsed at the end of March this year.
So Steyn is not on contract with SARU as from 1 April 2015 anymore.   Why should anybody under the circumstances be spiteful as alleged about a player with a questionable performance history over a three year period?   Was SARU the body that appealed the original decision?  The answer is no - it was Sanzar not SARU.  The people who lodged the appeal had nothing to do with SARU, but a legal expert representing SARU was in the Appeals Committee.  The decision was unanimous - Steyn was in contravention of the rules of the game and that was that.
SARU had a sole hand in only one thing insofar as Steyn is concerned and that is his player contract.   There may be some supportive evidence of potential spitefulness because of non-renewal of the player contract, but even in that case the sub-standard performance record of Steyn over the contract period - supported statistically as well - was more likely sufficient reasonable grounds for non-renewal of the contract.
The general feeling - my own as well - is that the penalty decided on was very harsh, but that is really a "feeling" not based on the legal issues involved.  




                          
  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Apr 2015, 01:22
#17
01 Apr 2015, 01:22#17
There are no legal issues involved. The issue was decided legally when the judge set aside the red card. At that point there was no requirement for further action. Sanzar took the highly unusual step of appealing against their own process.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Apr 2015, 01:48
#18
01 Apr 2015, 01:48#18
 Sanzar took the step - not SARU.   Is it a legal right of anybody to appeal a judgement of a legal body or court of law if the party concerned is of the opinion that a wrong judicial decision was made?  It happens all the times in courts of law - either the accused or the state can appeal against decisions.  
Why does the Sanzar agreement allows for an Appeals Committee/body in this case if not in line with normal legal procedure and principles.  The fact is that that the judicial representative assigned the responsibility took a decision and Sanzar felt it was not the right decision under the circumstances.   They took the entirely legal and acceptable step to appeal against the decision.   
They obviously did not agree that "At that point there was no requirement for further action.   Sanzar took the highly unusual step of appealing against their own process. " 
The quoted statement is a complete absurdity.  Sanzar did not appeal  "against their own process".   They had the legal and contractual right to appeal against a decision made by a judicial officer appointed by them if they felt that from a legal perspective the decision arrived at was wrong.  This is legally 100% different from the appealing against "their own process" as mentioned above.
     
    
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Apr 2015, 04:42
#19
01 Apr 2015, 04:42#19
 Let me help. Normally the prosecutor and the court are independent. So the accused has some protection. In this case the Sanzar Court of Appeal is the creature of Sanzar. There is no independence. It is in fact a kangaroo court
This was a process that was not required, not unanimous ....the TMO and the original judge disagreed, and ultimately vindictive. 
This isn't the law in operation, it's a rogue bureaucracy determined to have its own way with the game.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Apr 2015, 06:34
#20
01 Apr 2015, 06:34#20
 How can one argue with a useless idiot knowing nothing about legalities involved and carrying on with absolute absurd notions?   This is suddenly a kangaroo court initiated by a rogue bureaucracy.
If it was any player whom Mozart hates being involved than Mozart would hail the decision.   However, since it was Fransie - idolized by Mozart - it became a kangaroo court.
     
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
01 Apr 2015, 10:51
#21
01 Apr 2015, 10:51#21
 SANZAR has now clearly sent out a signal that their own judicial system has "failed" them and that they, themselves, do not trust themselves. What they have basically done was to appeal against themselves and have won against themselves. They have become the perpetrator, victim , prosecutor, judge, jury and executor, all in one go.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Apr 2015, 11:10
#22
01 Apr 2015, 11:10#22
 Dofdoos 2
What judicial system has failed  Sanzar?   Are you as befuddled as Dofdoos 1 is.  Like any decent organisation of the relevant nature, Sanzar allows for an appeals mechanism to ensure that all parties can have an appeal against wrongful and erroneous decisions. 
Players have used that mechanism repeatedly in the past - some successfully, some not so - so why can Sanzar not use it in the case of where they believe an erroneous decision has been taken by a judicial officer appointed by them.
Both of you dofdose have no clue about legal procedure and both of you have declared by implication there should not be an appeals mechanism for judicial decision-making insofar as application of the rugby rules is concerned.   How would you feel if you were a player who was charged and given a lengthy suspension if there was no appeals mechanism to try and get that sentence reduced?  Like in any process of a judicial nature appeals mechanisms are to be sued by all interested parties - inclusive of in this case Sanzar themselves. 
Finally is Sanzar the only rugby organisation with an Appeals Mechanism?  D efinitely not - so stop writing absolute balls and start thinking for a change.      
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
01 Apr 2015, 11:23
#23
01 Apr 2015, 11:23#23
 Correct decision was made in the end. Although assisted by Reinach, Steyn made no attempt whatsoever to pull out of the tackle so had to be suspended.How Cruden escaped serious injury is just pure luck!!
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
01 Apr 2015, 11:38
#24
01 Apr 2015, 11:38#24
@Ou Maaikie. Listen, oh wise one, what do you know about my knowledge of the basics of trials and trial procedures?
Frans Steyn appeared before a SANZAR judicial hearing, chaired by Jannie Lubbe. It was a SANZAR hearing and Jannie Lubbe chaired it on behalf of SANZAR. He was SANZAR, at that point in time. Got that?
You are saying: "Players have used that mechanism repeatedly in the past - some successfully, some not so............."
Now, this is exactly where your argument starts falling apart. Players appear on behalf of themselves in a case where they were charged by SANZAR to appear before a SANZAR judiciary. If they are not in agreement about the outcome of the hearing, they can appeal and ask for a revision, by SANZAR, of the finding, sentence, etc. That is totally different from SANZAR, not being happy with a decision that they, themselves, have made.

In a normal case, you have a prosecutor and an accused and a judge, and the three of them are independent of each other. The Judge is an arbiter in a normal criminal/civil case. Take, for instance, a criminal case. The judge has to hear the cases of each of the parties and make an independent and impartial finding and decide on a sentence, where applicable, after hearing both parties. If either of the parties do not agree with the findings they can appeal against any element of the outcome to a higher court. Fact is that the judge is as removed from the prosecuting authority as he/she is from the accused.
In this case, the prosecuting authority and the judge and the body, or whatever, that heard the appeal, are all the same entity, i.e. SANZAR. Everything has probably  been done within the rules of SANZAR but it is illogical in judicial terms.
They have, in fact, not agreed with their own decision and they have, in fact, appealed against themselves. That means, because they do not agree with their own findings, that their own system has failed them.
My opinion, and it is only my opinion, is that "someone" was not happy that Steyn got off and wanted the finding reversed, and managed to get it done.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Apr 2015, 12:11
#25
01 Apr 2015, 12:11#25
 F#ck dimwit you are absolutely crazy.   
Since when does a judicial official appointed by Sanzar becomes Sanzar?  He is not a part of the Sanzar establishment and is appointed by them as an independent adjudicator.  He takes an independent decision.    Because of the fact that he must apply his mind as to application of the laws and rules of Sanzar as an independent adjudicator - does not necessarily mean that Sanzar would be in agreement with his findings.      
The rest of the stuff you have written is crazy mumbo-jumbo.    
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
01 Apr 2015, 12:42
#26
01 Apr 2015, 12:42#26
 Anybody who represents SANZAR, effectively becomes SANZAR. He is appointed by them, and is paid by them. Why is it called a SANZAR judiciary?
The "prosecutor", in this case, is also SANZAR. The citing commissioners are appointed by SANZAR, and they are employed by them. Who did they appeal to? Who chaired that case. 
All  of the above, however, does not get away from the fact that SANZAR, doubted the findings of a SANZAR, judiciary. Who decided to appeal against the initial hearing? 
Let me share another piece of information with you:
"-Stirzaker and Higginbotham cited for stamping and trampling in game against Crusaders. No red cards issued. No suspensions. 

 

-Triggs punches Vermeuelen in the face. Twice. clearly and off the ball.  1 week ban. 

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT74lWlyfkc)

 

-Hika Elliot shoulder charges Tendai in the throat. Off the ball. Chances of seriously injuring the player's throat and neck. No suspension.  Not even a hearing. 

 

-Liam Messam choke holds Ronaldo Bothma off the ball. A choke hold is a fighting technique developed to cut oxygen circulation to the brain off. If not stopped in time could lead to memory loss, or other much more serious injury).

Not even a hearing.

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMYGu6s0QA4 - you can also see the Bismarck kick to the face, which is inexcusable as well)

 

- Josh Bekhuis receives a 'warning' from the citing commissioner for punching or striking against the cheetahs. 

No further citing or suspension.  

 

- Chris Kurindrani found guilty of dangerous charging after being cited for his actions in game vs. Waratahs. 

No suspension.

 

-James Broadhurst knees Luke Braid to the head. A proper knee kick can pack the same impact force as an accident with a small vehicle (think Mini). Even an improper knee is seriously dangerous. This is a knee to the head. One week ban. 

 

- Highlanders vs. Crusaders, round 2. Both Kane Hames  and Owen Franks, props from the respective teams, get's red carded for punching and striking. Franks receive a two week ban. Hames none. 

(This is the same Kane Hames who in 2014 was red carded at least once last year, cited twice, and received a one week ban). 

 

- Liam Gill performs a wrestling move known as a 'suplex' on a Brumbies playe r. This happens off the ball, after pay has stopped. 

Gill gets yellow carded. Later changed into a red card. No further suspension. 

(for more on the suplex and how dangerous it can be, watch this vid: 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MS1EL6as8k)"

 

So basically in 7 weeks of Super Rugby so far we have had 7 Kiwi players and 4 Aussie players involved in dangerous, off the ball acts, all of which involved actions that can be found in bar brawls, with a collective 4 week ban. We have two SA players who each effectively got four weeks. Eight weeks between the two of them. 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
01 Apr 2015, 13:15
#27
01 Apr 2015, 13:15#27
 Nice summary Cera, and yet our kiwi friends see now clear bias and attribute SA complaints as the SAffa victim paranoia. 
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
01 Apr 2015, 13:24
#28
01 Apr 2015, 13:24#28
"Sniff . . . blubber . . . whine . . . it's all so unfair . . . boohoohoo!"

No wonder the rest of the world see us as a nation of crybabies when we have snivellers like Baboon-ou and Ceradunce with their conspiracy theories and their victim mentality posting this kind of tearful whining.

Harden up for Pete's sake. There's no conspiracy. No judicial system is perfect and for every SA player who's been on the wrong end of an inconsistent decision, there's a Kiwi and an Aussie as well . . . except they don't burst into tears like Ceradunce and Baboon-ou!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Apr 2015, 13:41
#29
01 Apr 2015, 13:41#29
 Rooinek
I have given up on the rubbish spouted by Mozart and Ceradyne - they are as per normal totally clueless and are talking rubbish.    
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
01 Apr 2015, 13:57
#30
01 Apr 2015, 13:57#30
It's not just that they haven't got a clue, they also sound like pathetic little crybabies with their bleating about how it's all so unfair and naughty old SANZAR are picking on us . . . which is a bit embarrassing for the real SA rugby fans.
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
01 Apr 2015, 14:02
#31
01 Apr 2015, 14:02#31
 Oh yeah, this is all a world conspiracy to punish and ban the poor saffa players. And this world conpiracy includes saffa refs and judiciaries to punish the saffa players. Yeah, very logic.

Firstly, almost all your statements are false.

"Stirzaker and Higginbotham cited for stamping and trampling in game against Crusaders. No red cards issued. No suspensions."

Stitzaker was suspended for 1 week.

"Hika Elliot shoulder charges Tendai in the throat. Off the ball. Chances of seriously injuring the player's throat and neck. No suspension.  Not even a hearing. "

He was cited and suspended for 1 week (2 weeks reduced to 1 because of "an impeccable disciplinary record, never previously receiving a red card or cited for foul play since commencing his professional rugby career in 2004."). Elliot didn't charge in the throat, he charged in the back side of the neck and didn't hit with his shoulder but with his arm. However it was a shoulder charge directed to the head and was punished for it.

"Liam Messam choke holds Ronaldo Bothma off the ball. A choke hold is a fighting technique developed to cut oxygen circulation to the brain off. If not stopped in time could lead to memory loss, or other much more serious injury).
Not even a hearing."

Messam had a hearing and was cleared.
If you take the melodramatic way, it can also be said that Steyn's tackle could have let Cruden tetraplegic.

"Highlanders vs. Crusaders, round 2. Both Kane Hames  and Owen Franks, props from the respective teams, get's red carded for punching and striking. "

Nor Hanes nor Franks got red carded, not even yellow carded

"Gill gets yellow carded. Later changed into a red card. No further suspension."

Gill got a 2 weeks ban

The other incidents that you mention are all very different acts and laws.
The only one that really deserved a harder punishment was that of Liam Gill.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Apr 2015, 14:04
#32
01 Apr 2015, 14:04#32
Ceradunce aka Dofdoos
The following statement was made by Sanzar on the Steyn issue:-
" Southern Hemisphere controlling body SANZAR has revealed why they thought it was necessary to appeal Francois Steyn’s judicial hearing – because they thought the conclusion that Advocate Jannie Lubbe came to in finding Steyn not guilty was “a clear error of fact or law”.

Asked by supersport.com for clarification on why they felt it necessary, SANZAR replied with a statement setting out their reasoning on why the appeal was necessary, according to the supersport.com website.

The appeal – chaired by a panel from all three countries – found the original finding of not guilty invalid, and sentenced Steyn to five weeks off the game (which because of the bye in round 11 means a four match ban).

The result has infuriated Sharks supporters and drawn into question the consistency of the judicial findings in Super Rugby with the judicial process widely being considered a lottery by teams involved in the competition.

SANZAR says what differentiated this case from all others is the fact that the original ruling said there was no foul play – primarily because the original finding accepted that with Cobus Reinach part of the tip tackle, it wasn’t all Francois Steyn’s fault. The original hearing expunged the red card from Steyn’s record.

“Under World Rugby Regulation 17 (which SANZAR is bound by) the tournament organiser has a right of appeal. As a result, SANZAR has this right in its own rules. The right of appeal will only rarely be exercised as there is a threshold that must be met,” the statement read.

“SANZAR cannot appeal simply because it doesn’t like a particular decision or because SANZAR would have imposed a different sanction than the Judicial Officer had SANZAR been the decision maker hearing the case. The onus is on SANZAR to prove that the Judicial Officer made a clear error of fact or law in reaching his decision and therefore the decision was wrong.

“What differentiated this case from others is that the Judicial Officer ruled that there was no foul play, that the referee had made an incorrect decision in issuing a red card and that the red card should be expunged from the player's record.”

SANZAR goes on to say this could have grave implications on how tip tackles are refereed in the game going forward.

“In SANZAR's view, he made clear errors both of fact and law in making the findings he did and the Judicial Officer's decision would cause real doubt as to how these type of tackles should be treated by referees, Citing Commissioners, Judicial Officers and ultimately those playing and coaching the game.

“Player safety is paramount. Tip tackles in breach of Law 10.4(j) have a high risk of serious - or even catastrophic - injury and need to be eradicated from the game. For this reason, having considered all the evidence, SANZAR reached a view that the original decision by the Judicial Officer was wrong and SANZAR exercised its right of appeal.

“The Appeal Committee consisted of three highly qualified and very experienced Judicial Personnel (one from each SANZAR country). The Appeal Committee's full written decision will be available in the coming days and this will provide the full rationale for the decision it has reached.”

What is interesting though, is the implications this now holds for judiciaries in the future of the competition, as a clear message that tip tackles need to be severely punished has been sent out, no matter what the circumstances."
Allow me to ask one question ro be answered by Dofdoos and the Dullard Mozart: -
Are you in favour of tip tackles not being dealt with properly thus jeopardizing the safety and and even life of players?

  
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
01 Apr 2015, 14:08
#33
01 Apr 2015, 14:08#33
 There are 2 main reasons why the 5 weeks ban is correct (even if it could have been harsh):

1. As Kaplan wrote:
"the sentence handed out to Frans Steyn was deemed questionable. Not really a surprise. As I said, my understanding of the law is that once you lifted a player off the ground, it was your responsibility to bring him to ground safely, no matter who else joined in."

2. Leaving Steyn without punishment would have opened a very dangerous door that never should be opened. It would create the precedent that allows to tip-tackle (or make any other offense) when the tackle is made by more than one player.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Apr 2015, 14:12
#34
01 Apr 2015, 14:12#34

Senatore got a yellow for this tackle on JJ Engelbrecht in the Rugby Cup. He was banned for nine weeks though....nope not for this incident. He played the next week and thought Etzebeth was the closest thing to an Argentinian steak. Biting was the problem....not this tackle which was way more dangerous than Frans' assisted tackle.

 

 

Where is the consistency......rugby officiating is a self serving joke.

 

 

 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Apr 2015, 14:33
#35
01 Apr 2015, 14:33#35
 I asked you and Ceradunce a simple question - which you failed to answer at all - so I will repeat if again here:-
 "Are you in favour of tip tackles not being dealt with properly thus jeopardizing the safety and and even life of players?"

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
01 Apr 2015, 14:35
#36
01 Apr 2015, 14:35#36
 Excellent posts windpomp I have to say. You appear though to have forgot the knee in the back of Reinach by Marshall - no suspension.
It all adds up to blatant and obvious bias just as we so often see blatant and obvious bias in the issuing of game changing yellows, penalties etc etc all favouring the kiwis. The get the jarpie agenda is still in full cry as your evidence clearly shows.
As for ou rooitwit refs can do no wrong. Rooitwits biggest fear in life is to be called a whinger even if the charge is baseless. Hence he lacks the moral fibre to take a stand against biased crokks etc. He is a terrible scaredy cat in this regard.
Ab ass will never admit the full culpability kiwis.  By the way ab ass the 1 week suspension Elliot got was for his two cowardly shoulder charges at the prone Beast. - who incidently had a heck of a game.
Elliot started all the problems and should have got two reds. His offence against Beast was the worst incident that match and all in all an 8 week suspension would not have been unreasonable.
What a pair ab ass and rooiaass  make!!!  

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
01 Apr 2015, 14:39
#37
01 Apr 2015, 14:39#37
 Rooinek
 
Status: Senior player 
Posts: 2406RE: Fat Fransie suspended for 5 weeks . . .
April 01, 2015, 13:24:51"Sniff . . . blubber . . . whine . . . it's all so unfair . . . boohoohoo!"

No wonder the rest of the world see us as a nation of crybabies when we have snivellers like Baboon-ou and Ceradunce with their conspiracy theories and their victim mentality posting this kind of tearful whining. 

Harden up for Pete's sake. There's no conspiracy. No judicial system is perfect and for every SA player who's been on the wrong end of an inconsistent decision, there's a Kiwi and an Aussie as well . . . except they don't burst into tears like Ceradunce and Baboon-ou! 


  •  0 Likes

Listen, you stupid plank. If you have a bit of a memory, which I doubt, you would remember how many times I was down Beeno's throat about his constant winging wbout referees, but no, that counts for bugger all. I have voiced my opinion about this sudden appeal by SANZAR and that is it. I think I am one of the more sober ones when it comes to criticizing referees and the way that rugby is officiated.
So p!ss off and get off my back. 
Oh, and BTW. The piece that I quoted above shoves your little "or every SA player who's been on the wrong end of an inconsistent decision, there's a Kiwi and an Aussie as well "  theory right up your snotty nose. Go check. Eleven cases of foul play and 4 weeks ban in total, compared to two incidents and 8 weeks in total.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Apr 2015, 14:45
#38
01 Apr 2015, 14:45#38

All these tackles....tip tackles, shoulder charges, taking the man in the air....are allowed in the NFL. I know of no major injuries that have resulted at the professional level.

 

 

But if we want to pretend that these events are more dangerous than legal head butt tackles and pounding into the man when his neck is bent over the ball on the ground like Francois Louw.....the least we could do is be consistent.

 

Warburton received a 3 week ban for his WC tip tackle, which was very clear. Why did Frans get a 5 and Senatore get a yellow .....what is the logic?

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
01 Apr 2015, 14:45
#39
01 Apr 2015, 14:45#39
Hmmm . . . so the blubbering crybaby is stamping his little foot in self-righteous indignation while tearfully demanding that I stop calling him a blubbering crybaby?

LMAO!

"Sniff . . . it's all so unfair . . . bohoohoo!"
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Apr 2015, 14:46
#40
01 Apr 2015, 14:46#40
 Answer the question I put Doffies or shut up  moangat
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