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FORUM / RUGBY /  Finally the penny drops...we need a bruiser at 7

Finally the penny drops...we need a bruiser at 7

Started by Mozart26 REPLIES553 VIEWS· 12 Aug 2015, 00:45
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Aug 2015, 00:45
#1
12 Aug 2015, 00:45#1

Willem Alberts’ return to the Springbok side will boost their gainline effort as well as their chances of winning in Buenos Aires, writes JON CARDINELLI.

21 June 2014. That was the last time Francois Louw, Alberts and Duane Vermeulen featured as the starting back-row combination for the Boks.

That loose trio was the best on the planet in 2013. Louw and Vermeulen were the among the best fetchers in world rugby. Alberts was an irrepressible bully at the gainline, as a ball-carrier and as a momentum-stalling defender. All three players offered options at the lineout.

Alberts hasn’t featured for the Boks since the second Test against Wales in Nelspruit last year. Louw has endured his own injury struggles, missing the back-end of the 2014 Rugby Championship and then the four-match tour of Europe due to a neck problem. More recently, Louw took a knock to the shoulder in the encounter against the All Blacks.

Vermeulen sustained a neck injury of his own in the latter stages of the 2015 Super Rugby tournament. He was ruled out of all five of the Boks' pre-World Cup fixtures, and will at best feature in the first pool match against Japan on 19 September.

The trio has started as a combination in 17 Tests. The Boks have won 13 of those matches, and lost four. In all 17 clashes, the Boks have proved a handful at the collisions, and fiercely competitive at the breakdowns. This in turn has provided the Boks with the front-foot ball they need to thrive.

Heyneke Meyer will hope that Louw and Vermeulen recover to feature at the coming World Cup. The Boks will need their first-choice loose trio fit and firing, particularly in the big play-off matches.

Interestingly, the Boks have never lost a Test in the northern hemisphere when these three have started in the back row (the record stands at six consecutive victories). They have been criticised at times for not being as mobile as say the All Blacks or Wallabies loose-trio unit. But on the slower, heavier pitches up north, the strengths of Louw, Alberts and Vermeulen will be maximised.

The Boks have been a less physical and ultimately less effective outfit when even one of these players have been sidelined. South Africa have managed to plug the gap on occasion at No 6 and 8, but it’s been evident that there is no substitute for an out-and-out blindside flank in the Alberts-mould.

The Boks need Alberts to make an impact in the coming Test. In the short term, he will be looking to inspire an improved physical effort against a fired up Argentine side. In the long-term, he will be aiming to set the physical tone at the World Cup itself. When Alberts has started for Meyer’s Boks (between 2012 and 2014), they’ve gone on to win 17, and lose five (a win ratio of 77%)

Alberts is fit and available, and that is great news for the Boks. One would expect Meyer to select his strongest available back row for the coming clash in Buenos Aires, namely Heinrich Brüssow, Alberts and Schalk Burger.

The pressure on Alberts to perform, and remain fit, is greater than ever. The Boks need to snap their four-game losing streak. Somehow, Alberts needs to avoid joining Louw and Vermeulen in the Boks' sick bay. Another injury will only add to Meyer’s existing loose-forward headache.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
12 Aug 2015, 00:52
#2
12 Aug 2015, 00:52#2
One should always have a bruiser at 7....problem is it should NOT be washed up Alberts.
Our best s15 7 by a country mile was Jacques du Plessis. 
But shock shock useless Meyer does not have him in the squad.
The other option at 7 is PSDT or could have been CJ Stander had Meyer woken up to this impressive player.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Aug 2015, 01:02
#3
12 Aug 2015, 01:02#3
 Balls as per normal.  We may need a bruiser - but that means the bruiser must be an active player - not a low activity player.  What is the use of the bruiser - when he makes the lowest number of tackles with the highest ratio of missed tackles - when his ball carries are near to zero with an average meter gain of 1,6 meters and he plays no role at breakdown balls protection and recovery?   Just to waddle around on the fields of play like Alberts has been doing for years?
Like in all cases a player at 7 needs to perform.   The best performing blindsider at the latest AB-Wallabies game was Hooper - not a bruiser - but a performer.   A bruiser can be of value - but he has to perform.  Alberts has been loafing around for years and not performing.  However, it is nothing new - some empty voids support players even though they have been useless insofar as performance is concerned and their presence on the field of play is supposed to be "frightening the wits" out of players - they need to do nothing in fact.
The penny will never drop - Hooper and Poc ock has taught some of o ur members nothing - now did it?

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Aug 2015, 03:08
#4
12 Aug 2015, 03:08#4
And how do you deal with a  Hooper/ Pocklock combination? Do you serve up an ineffective fetcher like Coetzee as you two  bird brains so often advocated?  Nope you bulk up the pack with a power seven like Alberts who counter rucks them into oblivion.  That was the Jake formula and it would work just as well in 2015.
Coetzee, Labuscagne, Kriel....give me a break.
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
12 Aug 2015, 03:10
#5
12 Aug 2015, 03:10#5
 Steph is not a bruiser and Jacques is not going to cut it. 
MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
12 Aug 2015, 03:29
#6
12 Aug 2015, 03:29#6
I will happily eat my words if we see Alberts of old, but I'm NOT holding my breath.  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Aug 2015, 03:48
#7
12 Aug 2015, 03:48#7
Fair point. We don't know where Jean, F du Preez, and  Alberts are. But we have no alternatives as good. So it's worth finding out.
Same is true for the youngsters, even though fans and the press have already anointed them.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Aug 2015, 03:55
#8
12 Aug 2015, 03:55#8
 Oops - our comedian says "Alberts who counter rucks them into oblivion" - forgetting that Alberts nearly never gets to breakdown points to do what he claims happens.  By the time he gets there the ball is already gone and another breakdown formed 20 to 30 meters away and the same thing happens.   Alberts is more noted for not going into mauls and hanging around at the back to get the ball and then make one of his spectacular massive ball carries gaining less than 2 meters. 
Monsterbok is 100% correct - Alberts have not delivered on his promise for years and he is right in not holding his breath.
I would rather have a player who can get to breakdown points - can do ball protection and recovery  and do their work during all phases of play - than to go for a low-activity player just filling the teamsheet.    
MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
12 Aug 2015, 04:00
#9
12 Aug 2015, 04:00#9
I think Meyer has relied to heavily on miracles in the hospital ward regarding the old has-beens.Faf should have had a run in Durban, absolutely screwed up Marcel's hopes of the RWC. Cant see how we can take Fourie, Frans and Jean to the world cup due to injury and lack of game time, but we will "Reluctantly" probably have to take skinny Victor.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Aug 2015, 04:16
#10
12 Aug 2015, 04:16#10
We can't take Frans because of injury  but we can take Stephanie and Lambie? 
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
12 Aug 2015, 04:35
#11
12 Aug 2015, 04:35#11
 Steph passed the test, and Lambie has done what exactly? Frans solves a few of our most glaring problems. It's about finding the right piece to the puzzle. That's why Alberts is important, we do not have another piece like that. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Aug 2015, 04:39
#12
12 Aug 2015, 04:39#12
 We know exactly where Jean is - he is injured and will not play in another match - either on CC or other level until the WC.  He was sub-par on Saturday, so there is not anything to know about Jean.
Fourie has been out of real rugby since June 2014 - bar a few games in the soft Japanese club environment.  He was injured in June 2015 while undergoing pre-season training in Japan and has not played a game since then.  He was supposed to be fully-rehabilitated last week - but could not make the training on Tuesday last week because of a relapse.   There is nothing to find out about the situation as mentioned - it is known facts.   We should hope he is playing on Saturday - but I will not hold my breath on that one.  What is obvious is that he will not be match-fit and it will be a massive problem if he is selected to play on Saturday - but at 33 years of age and virtually out of competitive rugby for more than a year, nothing much can be proved even if he plays and does not mess up too badly.  Problem remains - he is a reputation player with only an average performance in June last year to go by.
Alberts have been out with injury since June last year and played in exactly three matches since then.  He was utterly useless in all three - getting injured again in the third match and being out of rugby since then.  So what is unknown  about that.  He has done zero for years to justify his reputation.
"But we have no alternatives as good."   Baas my siel - other than De Villiers and Du Preez being good in the past - Alberts never was - what proof is there that they are still good enough.  So that statement is a bad joke.  


            
MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
12 Aug 2015, 04:39
#13
12 Aug 2015, 04:39#13
Like him or loath him (Lambie) I don't think we have a choice, I actually like him he just needs or needed more consistent opportunities. Not Managed effectively by Meyer, but that's a whole other issue..On the topic of "Stephanie" as you put it, hopefully he'll get a run this weekend where we could have a look at where he's at just like Alberts for instance, but in my opinion Frans (Whom I used to be a fan of) has shown, in my eye's, nothing in years to suggest he is going to ad value in the WC.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Aug 2015, 08:04
#14
12 Aug 2015, 08:04#14
 DF
I am still perplexed by the following:-
"Frans solves a few of our most glaring problems."
I can understand the theory as you pronounced so often in the past.  However, why I am perplexed is whether the theory in fact is applied in practice and whether Frans in practice lives up to the theory.  I have rarely if ever seen him doing anything really constructive in matches and has seen more problems caused by him then top actions leading to real benefit for the teams he played for - essentially in this case the Sharks.
He is not our strongest ball carrying center - if he was he would not be credited by minimal line breaks and defenders beaten.   The latter is obviously a method by which effectiveness is proved.
I supported Steyn for years - matter of fact I was delighted by the news of his return from France.  I would still have supported him - but things have gone awry over the time he plated in SA.  I would still support him if he actually delivers on what you says he is capable of - but there is no real evidence of such delivery in practice.
I have the same problem with Alberts - high in theory, but missing in action.  Alberts had his moments years ago - but over the last three years he has done in practice too little to justify his selection.   The horror memories of his missed tackle on Read in the 2013 test at Ellis Park and  him falling over his own feet instead  of trying to recover the tackle ball when Aaron Smith was tackled less than a meter from where he was resulting in Messam scoring a try - just cannot get out of my mind.   That more than anything for me typifies what Alberts performances are really like in practice.

For me the two players have to prove in practice whether they are capable of- it is no use that the theory of their capabilities is not put into practice.    Until that happens I am sorry but I cannot support their selection.                 
  
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
12 Aug 2015, 09:29
#15
12 Aug 2015, 09:29#15
 
We need a strong player with pace.

A Juan Smith type.

Lappies is perfect for the job.

Alberts is a plodder. His strength helps us fo kkol if he can't get to the where he's needed.

Look forward to seeing him play on Saturday ... well I hope he gets to touch the ball a few times.

Will probably be gasping for breath within the first 20 and the subbed.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
12 Aug 2015, 10:14
#16
12 Aug 2015, 10:14#16

I see the short sighted ignorant clowns are at work again......apparently we have no better alternatives to Alberts, du Preez and Jean.......bwhaahaaaaaa


Fuck me we do read some shit on here


I could name 5 better players for each of those washed up has beens

 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
12 Aug 2015, 17:18
#17
12 Aug 2015, 17:18#17
 Alberts is suited to N H conditions and teams like England. Fact is Alberts has been very poor for some two years. We have quite a few big bruisers who could play 7. Du Plessis, Burgrr, Elstadt and Rhodes come to mind. Vermuelen also could play 7 amd Du Toit with his pace is a possibilty. Our resources at 6 are the issue. The outstanding Coetzee may not make it. Brussouw looks not that effective. Kriel.is about the only small flanker worthy of consideration. Louw will have to be an option.at 6. Away with Kolidi, Carr and wee Arno. Let get in the real warriors. Above ALL throw out that show pony old skinny victor. Bring in Willlemse. Frankly Meyer has poor selection ability. Where is Faf de Klerk????
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
12 Aug 2015, 17:18
#18
12 Aug 2015, 17:18#18
 Alberts is suited to N H conditions and teams like England. Fact is Alberts has been very poor for some two years. We have quite a few big bruisers who could play 7. Du Plessis, Burgrr, Elstadt and Rhodes come to mind. Vermuelen also could play 7 amd Du Toit with his pace is a possibilty. Our resources at 6 are the issue. The outstanding Coetzee may not make it. Brussouw looks not that effective. Kriel.is about the only small flanker worthy of consideration. Louw will have to be an option.at 6. Away with Kolidi, Carr and wee Arno. Let get in the real warriors. Above ALL throw out that show pony old skinny victor. Bring in Willlemse. Frankly Meyer has poor selection ability. Where is Faf de Klerk????
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
12 Aug 2015, 17:32
#19
12 Aug 2015, 17:32#19
 I believe faf de clerk is injured in any case he wouldn't have selected by Meyer.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Aug 2015, 17:41
#20
12 Aug 2015, 17:41#20
 JW
De Klerk is not injured he was in the CC game last week and has been selected to play again this coming weekend.  
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
12 Aug 2015, 17:52
#21
12 Aug 2015, 17:52#21
 Well my news is old then but we all know Meyer won't select him. I heard he has a weak box kick but that's not the reason Meyer hasn't selected him. Meyer would think he is too green.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
12 Aug 2015, 17:53
#22
12 Aug 2015, 17:53#22
 Alberts is suited to N H conditions and teams like England. Fact is Alberts has been very poor for some two years. We have quite a few big bruisers who could play 7. Du Plessis, Burgrr, Elstadt and Rhodes come to mind. Vermuelen also could play 7 amd Du Toit with his pace is a possibilty. Our resources at 6 are the issue. The outstanding Coetzee may not make it. Brussouw looks not that effective. Kriel.is about the only small flanker worthy of consideration. Louw will have to be an option.at 6. Away with Kolidi, Carr and wee Arno. Let get in the real warriors. Above ALL throw out that show pony old skinny victor. Bring in Willlemse. Frankly Meyer has poor selection ability. Where is Faf de Klerk????
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Aug 2015, 18:41
#23
12 Aug 2015, 18:41#23

Not du Plessis and Stephanie.....please dont use the term bruiser in the same sentence as those two draads. Honestly they would be clueless.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Aug 2015, 18:48
#24
12 Aug 2015, 18:48#24
 As clueless as the clumsy slow and useless as Alberts is?  That is just not possible - Alberts has deteriorated to an unimaginable level of  incompetency - matter Alberts has develop uselessness to a fine art. 
KA
KalaedFreddieClub Pro495 posts
12 Aug 2015, 20:22
#25
12 Aug 2015, 20:22#25
 Hi guys. Now I see Meyer is doing a clever trick. Pieter du Toit will be reserve for Alberts.http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/New-Bok-role-for-Pieter-Steph-20150812
I think that is clever. Like a Danie Rossouw or Mark Andrews. Maybe it works. Brussow is good but too small.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
13 Aug 2015, 11:59
#26
13 Aug 2015, 11:59#26
Wow imagine watching the entire S15 and concluding Jacques du Plessis is not a bruiser....rugby ignorance at play yet again.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Aug 2015, 13:28
#27
13 Aug 2015, 13:28#27
 Dave
Dr Goebbels has his own method of determining player selections and support.  The more useless they are - the higher he rates them.  The bigger their threat is in the selection stakes - the more lies and misrepresentation against such threats are being spun by him.
He is absolutely set on players like De Villiers, Jacque Fourie, Francois Steyn, Morne Steyn, Willem Alberts and Victor Matfield.  That should really tell you what this em pty void thinks about rugby performance.  
— END OF THREAD —

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