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FORUM / RUGBY /  Flip makes himself unavailable for the Boks.

Flip makes himself unavailable for the Boks.

Started by AgPleezDeddy31 REPLIES1,081 VIEWS· 05 May 2015, 23:24
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AG
AgPleezDeddy
Club Pro900 posts
AG
AgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
05 May 2015, 23:24
#1
05 May 2015, 23:24#1

Heyneke Meyer has a growing concern over South Africa’s lock position and the coach admits he would be in trouble if he had to select a team to play right now.

With the World Cup a little over four months away, the Springboks suddenly have problems in a position where they have enjoyed so much depth down the years. The latest setback came on Monday when it was confirmed Flip van der Merwe, a certainty for the World Cup squad if fit, had made himself unavailable for international rugby this year for undisclosed reasons.

“Flip is not available for international rugby at the moment,” Meyer said. “It is a big setback as I’ve always rated him and he is an enforcer. You need an enforcer for international rugby and he can play at [number] five as well. He would be in this squad but unfortunately he isn’t available.”

The retirement of Bakkies Botha, Andries Bekker’s move to Japan two years ago and injuries has left Meyer sweating over his options in the second row. “Eben [Etzebeth] is recovering from injury, Pieter-Steph [du Toit] is injured and Victor [Matfield] has been out with a knee injury, so if there is one position I’m worried about, that is it,” he said. “There are one or two loose-forwards that can play lock but you need specialists there. Lood [de Jager] is also injured, so if I had to pick a side today we’d be in trouble with locks.“

Meyer admitted his other area of concern was at centre, with the captain Jean de Villiers progressing well in his recovery from a major knee injury but still touch-and-go for the World Cup.

The World Cup begins on 18 September. South Africa are in Pool B, alongside Japan, Samoa, Scotland and the USA.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/may/05/heyneke-meyer-south-africa-lock-rugby-union-world-cup-flip-van-der-merwe

Not ideal at all, in line with this article, does anyone know how Bekker is doing in Japan?

DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
05 May 2015, 23:56
#2
05 May 2015, 23:56#2
 I think Bekker either took himself out of contention or Meyer has no faith in him.
JE
JeromeV
Club Pro492 posts
JE
JeromeVClub Pro492 posts
06 May 2015, 00:28
#3
06 May 2015, 00:28#3
Based on what I've seen Flip is another player who can't excel in the bok jersey, he lacks discipline, penalties galore with him and he doesn't really look threatening. Players like Jannie, Bismarck and Flip should have never been in the starting XV, it is clear that Meyer doesn't look at the deficiencies of players that lack discipline, another example is Dean Greyling who was involved in dirty foul play several of times and Meyer still went on to support   him. 
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 May 2015, 00:39
#4
06 May 2015, 00:39#4
I'll agree that Flip Flop is a penalty machine. But to say Jannie and Bismarck, the best hooker in the world until recently, shouldn't be in the team, seems a bit off the mark   
JE
JeromeV
Club Pro492 posts
JE
JeromeVClub Pro492 posts
06 May 2015, 00:56
#5
06 May 2015, 00:56#5
I'm spot on the mark. Jannie and Bismarck is a penalty machine as well, they are full of it. Don't you watch Super Rugby and the RC? SA's best hookers are Adriaan Strauss and Akker van der Merwe, i would even consider Schalk Brits ahead of Bismarck this this year. The du plessis brothers are holding the Springboks back and i'm afraid they will continue to hold us back from glory again. We need to be more open minded and not fall into the same trap year after year, it's getting ridiculous. 
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
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MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 May 2015, 01:11
#6
06 May 2015, 01:11#6
 Well you seem to have it all figured out, so tell me, why did old Akker  miss van Zyl for the first Bools try....the poor oke was faked out of his sockies. 
The next version of the Brits hooker  myth...Bismarck would have both of them for breakfast.
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
06 May 2015, 02:48
#7
06 May 2015, 02:48#7
Flip gives you a competitive advantage. His power game is too much for any NH side to cope with and he always outplays his NZ counterparts. This is a far bigger setback than even Meyer has admitted. To have Duane, Alberts and Flip... you have half the battle won already. His discipline is not that bad either, grossly exaggerated concerns don't deter my view. 
Moz, Bissie has never been the best hooker in the world. He has flaws in his game. His ball carries are negated by his upright body position and poor footwork in contact. He consistently ranks highly for turnovers conceded. Ball security is an issue. His lineout throwing is unreliable. He is a good scrummager and generally good on defence, though his straight back makes him something like a totem pole, he can get beaten on the fringe. He is a strong counter rucker. Pros and cons, which when weighed up, leave him too incomplete to be best in the world. 
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
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MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 May 2015, 03:29
#8
06 May 2015, 03:29#8
Certainly Bismarck has had his discipline issues, and Strauss is a more predictable bet now. But Bissie has at times been our only effective fetcher. Last year he seemed to take a step down during the S15 ...hard to say exactly where he is now. 

The thing you have nailed in your post is the value of the Flip/ Alberts/ Vermeulen trio. We will only win the WC with dominating forward power. On the YE tour in 2013 those three allowed us to dominate the collisions. It pretty much negated all the NH teams.
 
BL
bluebok
Pro3,977 posts
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bluebokPro3,977 posts
06 May 2015, 08:00
#9
06 May 2015, 08:00#9
Flip is no loss! Actually I am glad he won't be there to coast us any games. Yes he is an enforcer, but he does give away penalties all the time. 3 or 6 points given away in a tight test = a loss! If a loosie gives away penalties while trying to steal an opponents ball, a penalty is always a possibility, but the reward makes it a worthwhile risk, but poor discipline resulting in a penalty is just giving points away. He is a Bakkies wanna be, but has never been in the same league. 

BL
bluebok
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bluebokPro3,977 posts
06 May 2015, 08:03
#10
06 May 2015, 08:03#10
In Northern hemisphere conditions, I like the idea of big ball carriers like Vermeulen and Alberts, who along with Etzebeth and possibly Steph Du Toit (If recovered) would do just fine...no need for a liability like Flop. 
sharkbok
sharkbok
Captain23,285 posts
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,285 posts
06 May 2015, 09:00
#11
06 May 2015, 09:00#11
Flip has perfected stupid penalties. He has had some good tests where has been effective as an enforcer. 
Like Alberts he seems to enjoy the Northern Hemisphere .
BO
bobbok...
Captain10,129 posts
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
06 May 2015, 09:52
#12
06 May 2015, 09:52#12
 Contract dispute behind Flip's unavailability?


http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/Contract-dispute-behind-Flips-unavailability-20150506


Don't blame him, if all em other fellas got contracts ..............

DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
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DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
06 May 2015, 10:36
#13
06 May 2015, 10:36#13
What is it in South Africans that make them hate anything and everything of value, but praise and worship mediocrity? It never ceases to amaze me. 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 May 2015, 10:52
#14
06 May 2015, 10:52#14
 I think the last test against the AB's Flippie played in he was yellow-carded after giving away a string of penalties.  He is not a loss as a result of his constant ill-discipline.  
However, that does not count with Mozart - he is blind to serious deficiencies of players like Flippie and Alberts and it is always agog about the mongrel issue - while not mentioning it in the case of Matfield - who is of zero value in that respect.
If he insists on Matfield - as he does constantly - that means that Flippie must come in ahead of Etzebeth - another joke on his side.  With Alberts it meant that eh wants a player carrying balls 3 or 4 times in a match for not more than 2 meters gain per carry - and forget about anything relating to defense and ball protection and recovery of a loosie.  A flop in all respects as a loosie and a player who plays for 30 minutes and then vanish from sight.  
The poor bugger does not know anything about rugby and then comes up with BS.

DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
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DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
06 May 2015, 11:01
#15
06 May 2015, 11:01#15
Etzebeth goes walkabout too much. He has the potential to surpass Bakkies and will get much better in the coming years, but Flip adds alot of work ethic.

Alberts is one of our two best breakdown players, period. Carrying the ball in tight traffic, gaining the hard yards in other words, is not about meters gained but ball securely carried. That's how you open the game up, and he takes so many defenders with him that he becomes a vital generator of momentum. You have the gall to say another human being knows nothing about rugby. 
BL
bluebok
Pro3,977 posts
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bluebokPro3,977 posts
06 May 2015, 11:34
#16
06 May 2015, 11:34#16
Lestat, I agree 100% with you on Alberts. A meter or two gained in traffic adds huge value. Also, teams commit more players to tackle him which leave less defenders elsewhere. 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 May 2015, 12:37
#17
06 May 2015, 12:37#17
Letsal 
What a farce!!!   Over the last 3 years Alberts had not recovered a single ball from breakdown situations and the only time he should have (in the 2013 Ellis Park test against the AB's) he fell over his own feet - the AB's got the ball and scored a try.  Alberts is notorious for standing around mauls 80% of the time and his contributio0n in that regard is low.
Look if Alberts does his ball carries effectively and regularly - fine, but he does it very rarely in games.  What happens to the balls after his carries is another problem.  Alberts virtually never passes balls to other players and the inevitable result is balls die with him.
I do not expect for a loosie to carry the ball like a wing - that is a stupid statement by you.   What I do expect is that loosies must be able to carry balls, pass and catch balls  and occasionally link up with the backline in doing so.   I also expect from loosies to make tackles outside of Tight traffic when necessary and in that Alberts produces nothing - zero.   The way Paige ran around him with about 4 meters between the scrum and the sideline is typical of Alberts - too slow to react against players.   His pace is seriously deficient as well - so by the time he gets to breakdown points the ball has already gone from that spot.    Alberts is in fact a prop pretending to be a loosie.               
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
06 May 2015, 13:03
#18
06 May 2015, 13:03#18
He won a turnover in Brisbane 2013. Not the only turnover won either. He won at least one on the EOYT the same year. Cleaning rucks was another big contribution. He wins you forward momentum after the tackle which is key in presenting quick, clean ball for the backs.

"I do not expect for a loosie to carry the ball like a wing - that is a stupid statement by you.   What I do expect is that loosies must be able to carry balls, pass and catch balls  and occasionally link up with the backline in doing so."

Actually, it was a comment made by you. You bemoaned his lack of meters carrying the ball securely in heavy traffic, the opposite of this is making clean breaks and gaining significant yardage. It's a ridiculous expectation made by you. The objective of the forward PODs is to achieve quick ball, disrupt the defensive one and pull defenders to each ruck. Metres gained is a bonus if it happens. 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 May 2015, 13:15
#19
06 May 2015, 13:15#19
 What a farce again.  I may have missed 3 turnovers in four years of playing Super 15 and test rugby - what a massive achievement!!!!!
I also saw the famous Treeby-Alberts tackle technique - developed by Alberts - when Alberts landed  on his backside when attempting to tackle Treeby.   
"YOu do realize that Alberts has a history of making tackles out wide against backs don't you? Do you intentionally go out of your way to cut against the grain, be disagreeable? It's so ridiculous I can't believe you are't trying to troll us. "
I love that general statement - it is so ridiculous.   There is no supporting proof for that one.  Alberts making tackles out wide is a joke.  Just tell me one thing - how did Alberts miss that Paige tackle when Paige had less than three meters space to get past him?   How did he miss the tackle on Read when the latter broke past him in the 2013 Ellis Park test.   Both resulted in tries for the opposition and happened virtually next to scrums.   If he cannot make tackles 2 meters away from scrums - how the hell does he make tackles wide out.    This kind of generalization to justify BS is ridiculously funny.        

DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
06 May 2015, 13:26
#20
06 May 2015, 13:26#20
General statements are those you find in your "factual" Matfield posts! The Ellis Park test saw disasters by Duane, Eben, Beast and Bismarck. A ridiculous anomaly of a test given the complete abandonment of line integrity, but you are looking at isolated incidents, not pointing out trends. Just as you ignore anything and everything positive that a player does. 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 May 2015, 14:09
#21
06 May 2015, 14:09#21
 If Alberts was a success in the 2013 tests, my name is Robert Mugabe.   The only things he did was to cost us two tries in the AB test in Ellis Park that  year resulting in a loss for the Springboks.  There are two instances I can mentioned to substantiate this statement.  The one was the missed tackle on Kieran Read as a result of which Ben Smith scored a try.  The second one relates to a tackle on Aaron Smith who fell directly in front of Alberts 2 meters from the tryline.  All Alberts had to do was to bend down and take the ball from Smith.  Instead he fell over his own two feet and the AB's recovered the ball and scored a try (Messam's first try).    There is no other tests in 2013 where Alberts really played any decisive role in the Springboks winning, so your myth is based on BS.
Problem is I am honest at looking at players and study their performances over a period - thus determining their abilities and performance achievements.  I do not hide behind generalized statements when their is no counter to factual statements  made.   I criticize all players - also those I like -  when they deserve criticism and counter false statements by members iro players they idolize for reasons only known to them. 
Alberts is a flop as a loosie and that is unfortunately a fact of life.  He may be successful as a number 4 lock - but eh is too clumsy and fat  to compete successfully with other locks in line-out play.           
CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
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CeradynePro9,374 posts
06 May 2015, 14:15
#22
06 May 2015, 14:15#22
 "  The only things he did was to cost us two tries in the AB test in Ellis Park that  year resulting in a loss for the Springboks.  "
Hahahahahaha. And all along I thought that it was Morne Steyn who was solely to blame for that loss .




DE
DezertFox
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DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
06 May 2015, 14:16
#23
06 May 2015, 14:16#23
 Hi Bob.
SH
Shezza
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ShezzaPro2,471 posts
06 May 2015, 14:19
#24
06 May 2015, 14:19#24
 Alberts does nothing at the breakdown, he is completely uninvolved with that element of the game. 
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
06 May 2015, 14:22
#25
06 May 2015, 14:22#25
Incorrect Shezza.

Ceradyne, it's solely Matfield, Frans, Alberts, Morne, Du Preez, and everyone over 30... solely.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 May 2015, 15:15
#26
06 May 2015, 15:15#26
 Ceradunce 
The loss of that test was due to three players, namely -
*   Alberts who buggered up badly in the two cases I described;
*   Morne missing five tackles three of which ended up in two tries and his rank stupidity in the last minute before halftime which let to another try by Messam;
*   JJ missing a tackle on Barrett - before which De Villiers went out of the defensive line and Morne slapped Barrett on the back - wishing him well on his way to scoring the try.
So all three are to blame for the mess they made of that test.

DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
06 May 2015, 15:23
#27
06 May 2015, 15:23#27
Morné conceded ZERO tries. And his misses where behind the gain line. Here's a reminder you weasel. He prevented two tries to boot.

DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
06 May 2015, 15:25
#28
06 May 2015, 15:25#28
And the same game you said New Zealand ran at him all day!
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 May 2015, 16:20
#29
06 May 2015, 16:20#29
 I never said Morne did not make tackles - however he missed 5 as well so what about that?   And his BS before halftime that gave Naas Botha nearly a fit at halftime discussions was BS stuff.  
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
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MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 May 2015, 16:43
#30
06 May 2015, 16:43#30

 The usual Detritus rubbish. The Boks had to score tries to win the TN....we had just scored two brilliant tries running from deep. Morne releases his line a third time and JJ runs away from his support, gets knocked over right at Read's feet and gets turned....and then the liar  Detritus blames him for try.

 

 

A liar and not a gentleman.

CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
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CeradynePro9,374 posts
06 May 2015, 18:36
#31
06 May 2015, 18:36#31
 
clevermike
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 16574RE: Flip makes himself unavailable for the Boks.
May 06, 2015, 16:20:17 I never said Morne did not make tackles - however he missed 5 as well so what about that?   And his BS before halftime that gave Naas Botha nearly a fit at halftime discussions was BS stuff. 


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Willie le Roux also missed five tackles in that test and not a word about that.............. ever. The irony is that that was also the sum total of his attempted tackles.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 May 2015, 18:38
#32
06 May 2015, 18:38#32
 Mozart
Oe you a complete idiot.   It is seconds before halftime and the Boks are in their 22.  There is an overturn in possession and Dimwit Steyn passed the ball instead of kicking it out.  Messam ended up scoring a try.  During halftime Naas said that is the worse play he has ever seen in international rugby by a flyhalf - and all panel members agree.   The players outside of Morne was sold out before the move began.
The village idiot Mozart refuse to accept that it was a sh!t play and that the safety play was called for in that case, since halftime would ensue with the ball finding touch. 
So all of Naas Botha and Nic Mallett are wrong - Mozart the famous dofdoos is right.   Like that kick in the Aussie test in Perth last year - some reason had to be found to exonerate Steyn from being responsible for the "worse play Naas has ever seen in international rugby by a flyhalf" and in both Mozart spout enough rubbish to cover the whole yard of the sewerage plant in an effort to protect Morne .      
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