BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
20 Dec 2014, 15:17#41
Card, Draad's remark about time is the most sensible. I am not writing off Goosen as a 10. Time will tell. In any event the flyalf one is banking on is Pollard who looks like an all time great emmerging.I also rate Boschoff and if the Lions have a good season he could come t o the fore in Meyers thinking.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Dec 2014, 18:05#42
If Chicago is the City of Big Shoulders.....Goosen is the flyhalf with no shoulders....I mean almost none. There is nowhere for a point of contact, just a brief slippery slope.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Dec 2014, 18:13#43
Mozart
He lost it completely in a discussion about flyhalfs and full backs on the site and now he is back to shoulders size. This from the guy who wants Francois Steyn at flyhalf because of his physique- while Steyn is one of the worst flyhalfs imaginable - because of his inability to read games and decide on logical usage of the ball to best advantage of his team.
Goosen is still twice the flyhalf Morne Steyn would ever be and a flyhalf - not a dummy - like Francois Steyn is.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
20 Dec 2014, 18:34#44
Ah Moz so Ford is bigger than Brown for England, Lambie is bigger than Willie and Cruden is bigger than Smith or Dagg.....try again.
The only test side to have a bigger 10 than 15 is Wales. But Halfpenny is crap so hardly the measure.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Dec 2014, 22:28#48
Mozart
Tripe - the issue is which international flyhalfs are bihgger than full backs. Point number one is tha implis present flyhalfs - not ones yuu select as examples to prove your point. Then you wnet baloney too wit saying you refer to the teams that played SA in the latest two series to cover up your flawed argument. .
Carter did not play against SA in the latest series. So out of the window goes your statement.
There is no proof that flyhalfs are getting bigger - in fact the indications are to the contrary. Farrell succeeded by Ford - Carter by Cruden or Barrett - Cooper succeeded by Foley.
"There are more skill elements in play, like goal kicking, so it will never be universal, but 10 channel is the toughest of all."
How do you justify your support of Francois Steyn and Morne Steyn basd on the above - since they lack every skill a flyhalf shou;ld have - bar goalkicking - and they are the two worst defenders of all SA flyhalfs? Since when is goal-kicking the only skill important in the case of flyhalfs - since that is the ony skil mentioned by you? In fact throughout your whole story about flyhalfs in previous threads you never mentiond anyting bar goalkicking and "presence" in the channnel - so what other skills do you think are important.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Dec 2014, 01:34#49
My point is that test 15's a generally bigger than test 10's and I for one advocate big fullbacks as I do wings and centres. Yes it is beneficial to have a big 10, but 10 and 9 are two positions where size is not that much of an issue.
While Lambie and Goosen are not big, both are around the 90kg mark, which is more than adequate for a test 10.......both don't shy away from contact either.
For me its a close call between Pollard, Goosen and Lambie for the 10 spot.......I don't see Lambie and Goosen as 15's at all.
OVOvalBalls
Rookie95 posts
21 Dec 2014, 07:03#50
Actually Handre Pollard might make a useful fullback. He is taller and more solidly built than either Lambie or Goosen, is very good under the high ball, has a decent boot and could do with an extra split second to make better decisions. It is also highly beneficial to have an additional goal kicking option on the field.
Lambie or Goosen would be my choice at flyhalf. I would probably go with Lambie for now until Goosen can demonstrate that he can play for a few games in a row without getting injured.
I think a Lambie at 10, and Pollard at 15 combo would be very good. Willie Le Roux makes too many mistakes. Brilliant player in the beginning but now it is almost like he tries to do too much. Opposition are starting to love him because you can almost be sure he will make at least one or two major mistakes in a game which will gift the opposition a decent attacking opportunity.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Dec 2014, 09:38#51
OB
Don't you not think that Le Roux tries too much - because other players try too little? The other problemis likely that the opposition as a result has found out to expect variations and players mark him very carefully.
I was disappointed about the mistakes he made in the Welsh test - where he was under no real pressure - but I would still want him on the field of play. Maybe - with the problems we hve at wing - he should move to that position and then play either Pollard or Lambie at full back.
Goosen is really doing exceptionally well in the NH for his club and is being played by them at flyhalf or full back as well.
However, you are right in on respect and that is that decisionmaking is the real issue at 10 - that is where Mozart is wrong. I would rather have a top decisionmaker at flyhalf with an 75% goal kicking record - than a poor decisionmaker with an 80% goal kicking record.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Dec 2014, 11:17#52
Willie is a must at 15, without him the Boks would sterile beyond imagine.......he is the only player who can spark an attack and create something from nothing.
I'd go so far as to say Willie would be the first name on my teamsheet
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Dec 2014, 11:41#53
Dave
There has been a lot of criticism of Le Roux o this site - he did make a few errors - but I do not think he gets enough credit for the good things he does. Personlly I believe that he makes mistakes at times - but every player who tries a lot of things will make mistakes at times.
I think that Pollard will improve in his decisionmaking as he gets more experience - but am in agreement withj you that the competition for the flyhalf position is between him, Goosen and Lambie. The beauty is that we will thus cover basically three positions on the fleld of play if the bench is correctly selected - namely flyhalf, full back and wing. At a must Pollard can play at 12 - although that is not his best position.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Dec 2014, 18:23#55
Wrong, as Mallett correctly pointed out Lambie and Reinach had excellent games against England.
I'd say Pollard has the edge at this stage in terms of the Bok 10 spot......Meyer's treatment of him after Ireland was pathetic.....one would swear he had been that poor in that test......he had been anything but poor.
21 Dec 2014, 23:58#58
Yeah, Nick Mallett is English. He knows his Rugby
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Dec 2014, 00:42#59
Mozart is just impossible - he maks statements that has no substance and then shies away from it when cjallenged by facts.
He suddenly is the great defender of Pollard and says the thinking of others is confused. Pollard was not and is not yet the complete flyhalf - he is a great flyhalf in the making. There iss till some points where he can improve - one of those being his reading of the game and consequential decisions. He suddenly refer to the mistakes made against Wales - yet he failed to mention that Pollard was on the field of play for at least 25 minutes - when the situation did not improve.
The real problem in the Welsh test was not the half-backs - it was the Tight 5 that was not good enough - with Mohoje being a serious problem as well. The worst problem of the Tight 5 was Matfield.
Lambie made on mistake by knockinga ball on in minute 53 and was immediately replaced by Pollard. For the rest he was solid and e made one break where he found himself isolated with the only supporting player out of sight behind him - forcing him to make a kick. So Mozart blamed Lambie for kicking the ball away.
I do not think Lambie is the perfect flyhalf - but I do not invent resons to denigrate him.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Dec 2014, 01:20#60
Pollard was on the field of play when Hendricks was in the bin. He was also saddled with Hougaard ....quack quack.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Dec 2014, 01:26#61
Hougaard and Pollard are our best options at 9 & 10.......but its a close call as Reinach, v/Zyl and Faf de Klerk are up there with Hougaard as Lambie and Goosen are with Pollard.
My call is Hougaard at 9 with Reinach on the bench and Pollard at 10 with Goosen on the bench.....but this is a tough call as Lambie offers more options given he is comfortable at 15, so possibly would be the better bench option.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Dec 2014, 01:29#62
Oom....this what I said about Lambie after Wales:
Lambie ducked under two forwards who were charging forwards...and then the Red sea opened as it were. I couldn't see an obvious pass he could have made, but the kick was heavy handed . More to the point his tactical kicking and passing were inept. The kickoff into touch is something of a Lambie trademark. As is the kick over the dead line. The pass to Le Roux's feet was clumsy as was the chip down Davies throat. And the dropped ball in his bread basket was embarrassing.
So how exactly was it that I blamed him for kicking the ball away? Caught in another lie.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Dec 2014, 06:40#63
A player can easily b blamed for inept kicking - but that applies to Lambie - not dear Fransie and Morne - there kicking is always good according to you and inept according to everyone else. How many kick-offs of those two players and Pollard were directly into touch? Not a word about that on your part. Lambie did it once and you went on a rampage.
Tactical kicking - he worst flyhalfs in that regard was certainly not Lambie or Pollard - you two heroes took that by a mile.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Dec 2014, 07:03#64
Still regardless of differences in opinion, you should just stop lying. What you claimed is a lie, I have just shown that. Do better.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Dec 2014, 17:11#65
As usual without enough class to admit his mistake .....the OOM slithers away.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Dec 2014, 17:37#66
Mozart
I copied a message i previously posted because you tried to avoid responding when it was pointedf out to youthat youwere writing your standard tripe:-
"Tripe - the issue is which international flyhalfs are bihgger than full backs. Point number one is tha implis present flyhalfs - not ones yuu select as examples to prove your point. Then you wnet baloney too wit saying you refer to the teams that played SA in the latest two series to cover up your flawed argument. .
Carter did not play against SA in the latest series. So out of the window goes your statement.
There is no proof that flyhalfs are getting bigger - in fact the indications are to the contrary. Farrell succeeded by Ford - Carter by Cruden or Barrett - Cooper succeeded by Foley. Point 1
"There are more skill elements in play, like goal kicking, so it will never be universal, but 10 channel is the toughest of all."
How do you justify your support of Francois Steyn and Morne Steyn basd on the above - since they lack every skill a flyhalf shou;ld have - bar goalkicking - and they are the two worst defenders of all SA flyhalfs? Since when is goal-kicking the only skill important in the case of flyhalfs - since that is the ony skil mentioned by you? In fact throughout your whole story about flyhalfs in previous threads you never mentiond anyting bar goalkicking and "presence" in the channnel - so what other skills do you think are important. " Point 2
Respond to those two points and discussion can conitnue.
Incidentally what you quoted above was not your first reponse on Lambie's break - go back and check what you wrote originally. The change followed when you were corrected on what really was the case and could not find a way to wiggle out of the situation.
