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FORUM / RUGBY /  Foreign-based Players to be selected to play for the Springboks

Foreign-based Players to be selected to play for the Springboks

Started by clevermike76 REPLIES1,099 VIEWS· 14 Apr 2016, 08:23
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CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Apr 2016, 08:23
#1
14 Apr 2016, 08:23#1
The following from News 24:-
"There is not enough depth in the country for SA Rugby to prevent the new Springbok coach from picking overseas-based players, CEO Jurie Roux believes.

Roux spoke to Netwerk24 after the announcement of Allister Coetzee as the new Springbok coach earlier this week.


It was confirmed that for the 2016 season, the status quo regarding the availability of overseas players for the national team would remain as is.


“We have to build depth. If we decide today that overseas Boks are taboo, then we’ll lose the services of six or seven top players,” said Roux.


“I’m not a selector, but there are several overseas players who are now the best in their positions.


“There is merit in the criticism SARU is copping over the policy, but we also want the team to win.”


Roux said the issue will again be reviewed at the end of the 2016 season.

According to Roux, there are several factors that need to be considered when determining the availability of overseas players for the Springboks.


“One of them is that we don’t have same amount of depth as the All Blacks,” he said."


Hopefully we are past the stage of Meyer licking the backsides of the "retired players" coming back to play international rugby again.  Based on the present scenario there are very few players playing in Europe worth selecting.  Those possible selections are -


Bryan Habana (getting a bit past it though), Johann Goosen, Duane Vermeulen, Jacques du Plessis, Paul Willemse, Stephen Kitshoff and perhaps Bismarck du Plessis (same as Habana).


 

BL
bluebok
Pro3,977 posts
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
14 Apr 2016, 08:34
#2
14 Apr 2016, 08:34#2
This is good news! Maybe not for our local player retention, but it does open up our selectors to a wider group of players from which to choose. Looking at Super Rugby, it is obvious to me that we lack the quality of players still plying their trade within our shores to challenge the likes of New Zealand. Coetzee has always been a backer of Kithoff, so hopefully this will give him his shot at the green and gold .  
TH
TheTraditionalist
Pro4,003 posts
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
14 Apr 2016, 08:37
#3
14 Apr 2016, 08:37#3
 Cant do otherwise. It is not like resources are up in SA.

Next stage: selection of players who moved abroad at an early age. That would be that much less resources to be spent on training players.
The way it works.
DE
Denny
Captain12,893 posts
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
14 Apr 2016, 09:02
#4
14 Apr 2016, 09:02#4
 Holymolly....suddenly the gloom and doom of the last few days have evaporated...so what happened Mike, just yesterday you'd dumped the Boks, today it's .."Hopefully we are past the stage of Meyer licking the backsides of the..."
BR
Brycy
Pro4,671 posts
BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
14 Apr 2016, 09:18
#5
14 Apr 2016, 09:18#5

 ..not so clevermike surely you jest...old man Hahahabana that just got dumped by the Sevens team...and Beefcake the yellow card magnet Bismark...too funny mate..


CL
CleanCut
Pro9,905 posts
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
14 Apr 2016, 09:25
#6
14 Apr 2016, 09:25#6
 Oh no!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seems the tired and elderly are still in the fray.
Welcome back Mr Matfield ... Gurthro ... Ruan ... Flo ... 
Seems we missed ya!
What a crock of sh!t!!!!!
We have to start somewhere, don't we? A fresh start. Expose our youngster to the test arena. 
Why hang onto the tired and elderly when we have talent to burn right here at home.
It's as if we've learnt nothing over the last few years.
Mr Coetzee, you've hardly started and your already pissing me off.
 
 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Apr 2016, 09:27
#7
14 Apr 2016, 09:27#7
Brycy
Reads carefully what I said about Habana and Du Plessis - way past their best in my opinion.
Denny
I was just writing down what caused Meyer's downfall - his preference for players of the past that he is familiar with. 
I do not think as a South African I cann support the rubbish we got used to - neither the future rubbish we will have to put up woth.  
DE
Denny
Captain12,893 posts
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
14 Apr 2016, 09:31
#8
14 Apr 2016, 09:31#8
 With three years to the next WC it's time for new blood...Bismark's used by date is gone, Habana has lost a yard or two and by 2019 he'd have lost ten.
CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
14 Apr 2016, 11:57
#9
14 Apr 2016, 11:57#9
 

"Brycy


Reads carefully what I said about Habana and Du Plessis - way past their best in my opinion."

And this  is  what was said:

"Bryan Habana (getting a bit past it though)

Bismarck du Plessis (same as Habana)."
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Apr 2016, 12:15
#10
14 Apr 2016, 12:15#10
 The following players are listed as potential foreign club players in an article in News 24 - my comments are given in bold after each name:-
Duane Vermeulen   -   Fine - but not hot for his ClubFrancois Louw       -   Maybe OK - but slowStephan Kitshoff    -   Top class quality playerSchalk Brits           -   Blaas my sielJannie du Plessis    -   Blaas my sielFlip van der Merwe -   Blaas my sielBismarck du Plessis -   Maybe Ok - but not up to Club standardWillem Alberts        -   Blaas my sielHeinrich Brussow    -   Maybe OKAndries Bekker       -   Blaas my sielRuan Pienaar         -   Blaas my sielBryan Habana        -   Maybe Ok - but lost pace badlyZane Kirchner        -   Blaas my sielJohann Goosen      -   Played very well for his club in recent matchesFrancois Steyn      -   Blaas my siel
So lets evaluate above list with only Stephen Kitshoff, Flip van der Merwe, Heinrich Brussow, Johann Goosen and Francois Steyn are under the age of 30 years. 
I do think that there is one bitter lesson learned form Meyer - don't put most of your eggs in one basket and select way past their best players bearing in mind reputation and not performance.   By the time the 2019 WC comes around Brits will be near to 40 and most of the other players between the ages of 35 and 38.   Hope Coetzee is not mad enough to copy the BS of Meyer in his selection strategy.    
The answer is pick a squad for the future that can be build up for the 2019 WC - not having a group of non-performing rugby geriatrics and then having to make panic selections- .  
Mozart will be happy to have 75% of the above list in the Springbok squad - but that will not be even remotely acceptable by thinking people.      


 
DE
Denny
Captain12,893 posts
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
14 Apr 2016, 12:27
#11
14 Apr 2016, 12:27#11
 Mike there are a couple of posts further down where (a) you say you'll be supporting the AB's from here on (b) every team that plays against the Boks.
My question is....have you U turned on your stance of yesterday?
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Apr 2016, 12:30
#12
14 Apr 2016, 12:30#12
 Denny 
No - I criticize all teams and have had the AB supporters on me before and now as well - even though I support them.   I am same with all teams - whether I support them or not.   I call it critical evaluation.    
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Apr 2016, 12:30
#13
14 Apr 2016, 12:30#13
 Denny 
No - I criticize all teams and have had the AB supporters on me before and now as well - even though I support them.   I am same with all teams - whether I support them or not.   I call it critical evaluation.    
DE
Denny
Captain12,893 posts
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
14 Apr 2016, 12:50
#14
14 Apr 2016, 12:50#14

 "critical evaluation" Huh?

(a) Will in future only support the AB's - sad to say

 

(b) In any event - I used to be a supporter of Springbok Rugby - but am no longer and will in future support the opposing teams which they play against - sad to say.


Is this what you call "critical evaluation"?

CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Apr 2016, 14:29
#15
14 Apr 2016, 14:29#15
 Because I do not support them - I am n0t allowed to write about their shenanigans?  That is farcical and against the freedom of speech.. 
KI
kingcorn
Pro3,695 posts
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
14 Apr 2016, 14:30
#16
14 Apr 2016, 14:30#16
 not many foreign players to choose from, but if I was Coetzee I would create competition in the Squad. Our last 2 coaches relied way to much on certain players. Meyer took a huge risk with experimenting up to the world cup which resulting in historic losses. The only 2 players that paid off was fourie du preez and vermeulen. 
The following players would only be a stop gap for the next couple of seasons.
BismarkHavanaPietersen Frans Steyn 
Still worth investing long term
Goosen, turning into a good fullbackKitshoff 
Then with vermeulen. There is talks in the press that he should be the automatic choice as Captain but can he make a big impact at the world cup aged 33 / 34. 
I don't think that Saru know how to manage their players. That's is where new Zealand does so well. If you look at how they looked after Richie and Daniel. 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Apr 2016, 14:40
#17
14 Apr 2016, 14:40#17
Blikkies 
Fat Fransie - how did you get to that one? He has been useless for three years and there is no chance he will improve.
I would add Jacques du Plessis and Paul Willemse to that list.
Question - how do you manage players when they play in foreign countries?   
DE
Denny
Captain12,893 posts
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
14 Apr 2016, 14:41
#18
14 Apr 2016, 14:41#18
Mike, Your so called "critical evaluation" is anything but....it is as a matter of fact, a statement.
Why don't you just simply answer my question?...and again, my question is whether you've changed your mind from the above statements you made yesterday?
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Apr 2016, 14:44
#19
14 Apr 2016, 14:44#19
 No - I have not changed my mind.  
DE
Denny
Captain12,893 posts
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
14 Apr 2016, 14:47
#20
14 Apr 2016, 14:47#20
 So let me get this right.....and please confirm. As from yesterday you do not support the Boks, you now support the Kiwis and any team that plays against the Boks. This is as per your above two statements.
Is this correct?
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Apr 2016, 15:24
#21
14 Apr 2016, 15:24#21
 Definitely - but what has it got to do with the above thread I started? 
DE
Denny
Captain12,893 posts
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
14 Apr 2016, 15:33
#22
14 Apr 2016, 15:33#22
 Well here's the gig.....
Yesterday you turned your back on the Boks...finish en Klaar. Today you write, and I've already explained and quoted you in this....
"Hopefully we are past the stage of Meyer licking the backsides of the..."  See the "we" bit? Get it now? It's quite simple really...the Boks are Kak and you won't be supporting them but then today you speak of "we" meaning you still support them, hence my query. 
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Apr 2016, 15:39
#23
14 Apr 2016, 15:39#23
 Oh my word.....we have offloaded Tokkie to the Kiwis. At last some good news on the Board. It's a gift not a loan all you Kiwi supporters,
Perhaps old Tokkie could start by explaining why their old team of geriatrics won the WC.
DE
Denny
Captain12,893 posts
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
14 Apr 2016, 15:48
#24
14 Apr 2016, 15:48#24
 It's a nice broken record to offload.
BL
bluebok
Pro3,977 posts
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
14 Apr 2016, 15:49
#25
14 Apr 2016, 15:49#25
D, you are really being petty! Mike has stated quite clearly that he is no longer a Bok supporter. That is the end of it. I don't believe you can just turn off which team you support, so basically, I reckon he is still a Bok supporter that will swear at the TV when they lose, but he won't support them publicly. The "we" your are on about is just a vague statement that can never be proved or disproved, so what is the point? He can just say that "we" refers to all South Africans.   
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Apr 2016, 15:53
#26
14 Apr 2016, 15:53#26
 Oh for heaven sake, can we get any more PC. This silly old fart declares himself a non Bok supporter....a turncoat in fact....and we have to look at his inner, self promoting angst?
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Apr 2016, 15:56
#27
14 Apr 2016, 15:56#27
 Mozart
Please deal with the topic - don't get personal.    
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Apr 2016, 16:23
#28
14 Apr 2016, 16:23#28
 So you can post "Meyer licking the backsides of retired players" but I can't call you a turncoat when that's exactly what you are by your own words......laughable passive aggressive jumbo jumbo.
By the way I could care less if you are a turncoat, I have been called the same by the AAS for leaving. But at least I don't eat South African bread while I'm supporting the NZ rugby team.
On this silly little string we have posters playing the PC Card and the passive aggressive card....... all we are missing is the race card. Honest plain speaking is an endangered species.



CL
CleanCut
Pro9,905 posts
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
14 Apr 2016, 16:26
#29
14 Apr 2016, 16:26#29
 Mike is a loyal Bok supporter who threw his toys at the absurdity enforced on us all. 
Who can blame him?
I most certainly do not as I feel exactly the same.
We have talent to burn ... but the racists in charge have large chips on the shoulders and are insisting on bringing in bozos, chumps, wannabes and incompetent fools ... all so that they can feel better about themselves ... starting with the coach and his unbelievable management team.
Denny ... you may be happy with it all ... which is no surprise to any of us ... as your an Ozzie living far away ... and ignorant to boot.
What do you know about rugby, huh? Apart from everything Mozart says???
What do you know about living here?
The things that go on within our borders has nothing to do with you. 
Mike is a passionate rugby man who wants the best for our nation and like me is frustrated beyond the word.
So do me a favour, Denny ... shut your pie hole and mind your own friggin business..



MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Apr 2016, 16:38
#30
14 Apr 2016, 16:38#30
 Passionate rugby men don't support their team's arch rival when they don't like what's happening with their own team. Look at the English club supporters for a Crystal Palace for example, not rich folks, but sitting rain or shine week after week supporting their team without much hope. Those are loyal supporters.

Anybody who has an emotional bond with Springbok rugby could never support NZ over the Boks. Posers could.
CL
CleanCut
Pro9,905 posts
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
14 Apr 2016, 16:58
#31
14 Apr 2016, 16:58#31
 Do they also have to contend with enforced transformation?
Do they also have to endure racism?
Do they also have to put up with this level of incompetence? 
Are their best players also being left out so that others can feel better about themselves?
No. They have none of the above issues to contend with. 
Just a little bit of wet weather ... that's all.
Big difference wouldn't you say, Mozart?


WA
Wardad
Pro6,663 posts
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
14 Apr 2016, 17:02
#32
14 Apr 2016, 17:02#32
 And at this rate you never will have the ABs depth .The NZRFU bit the bullet hard and let some very good players go out of contention like Piatau and Ranger etc.But overall it works pretty good ,that black jersey still has magic in it for good players and if it doesnt well then bye !
DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
14 Apr 2016, 17:28
#33
14 Apr 2016, 17:28#33
 Of the players playing abroad,  I see only Thor and Kitsie as starters, with Habana and maybe Bissie/Flo as bench options. Only for this season though.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Apr 2016, 18:18
#34
14 Apr 2016, 18:18#34
 Mozart
Don't like the tru th - now don't you.  
BR
Brycy
Pro4,671 posts
BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
14 Apr 2016, 20:19
#35
14 Apr 2016, 20:19#35

 ...not so clevermike there's an article in the roar about banning overseas players being the key to transformation...find it yourself


MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Apr 2016, 22:25
#36
14 Apr 2016, 22:25#36
What troth....the troth you made to the ANC when you became  a comrade Tokkie? So now you don't like what they are doing , what the blue blazes did you think was going to happen moron?
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Apr 2016, 23:29
#37
14 Apr 2016, 23:29#37
 You know about something which happened years ago and when circumstances was entirely different from what it is now.  However, my political affiliation which changed nearly a decade ago - has nothing to do with anybody on a rugby board. 
Tioy my not realise that I was working for a Government institution and had to portray myself as a supporter - otherwise my job was in jeopardy.  But that will not count with an idiot like you now would it?
However, this thread has nothing to do with me - everything to do with rugby iro which there was a reference to the stupidity displayed by Meyer and you supported him that,  I may be all kind of things you accuse me of - but when it comes to rugby you are  proven  to be a total illiterate.

DE
Denny
Captain12,893 posts
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
14 Apr 2016, 23:53
#38
14 Apr 2016, 23:53#38
 Hellsbells what's going down here? Listen ummm Bluebok, no-one pressed your button, ok? but seeing you're accusing me of being "petty"let me inform you now that you've become Mike's unofficial spokesman that my question had nothing to do with you or anyone else and it was asked purely because of Mike's mixed signals. As a matter of fact even you say that he's "we" statement is vague which is why the matter dragged on a lot further than it should have. Also in typical Mike fashion the question flew straight over his head, it could have died with a straight yes or no.
As for you Clean Cut, pretty much the same applies but seeing you've become the board traffic manager let's get one thing straight, Chump....drop your tough guy stance....it's hilarious....for a start, we're in cyberspace.....get it Chump??...you can't stab me!
Feel a little bit lost without that mean and nasty piece dontcha? Yes, I know, I know, old habits die hard.

Tell you what else Chump....I'm sick and tired of hearing you whining about how it used to be in South Africa and what it's like now.....why don't you just rack off Huh?Thing is, if you had a brain then you would have realized that things were never going to be the same, that you were going to lose your bigoted privileges. There's a plane at the airport with a vacant seat, get on board you gutless wonder and go to where it's better....what are you waiting for??? The ball is in your court, ain't me holding you back but if you don't make that quantum shift then you'd better get used t o the idea of a Bok team with lots more players of colour....and a coach for the next 4 years who is not your beloved colour either....geez that must hurt,I feel your pain.

AJ
Arthur John
Pro1,748 posts
AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
15 Apr 2016, 00:44
#39
15 Apr 2016, 00:44#39
 Hey Mannatjies no one on this site is responsible for your colour.....by now u should have learnt to live with it whatever it is.
Now grow up, accept it, live with it and stop your ranting about colour as nobody cares about colour on this site but u.
Be happy.
Thanks and good-luck.
Cheers.
DE
Denny
Captain12,893 posts
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
15 Apr 2016, 01:50
#40
15 Apr 2016, 01:50#40
 Oh look what the cat just dragged in........the Bitterbal. How's things Arthur in the John? Gonna tell me again how your life was disrupted in the good old South Africa?....and how you now have to shovel through 4ft of snow to rescue your car? ...without a servant's help? Tough hey? By the way, whenever you do decide to give us a rugby post just remember the ball isn't round in shape. Got that you moron?
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